***

Dr. Mees: With regard to the report as a whole, it seems to me that the Board of Governors and the Standards Committee should consider some more flexible method of procedure. I do not agree with Mr. Kintner's remarks that it is too early for standards to be formed. The earlier standards are laid down, the better. I think we should strengthen our Standards Committee and ask them to take more action than they have in the past- and they have not been lacking in this respect; and that we should possibly revise our procedure so that when we have made a mistake it is possible to change it. This matter of tying ourselves to errors appears to me to be a mistake. We are likely to make errors with new things. For instance, if somebody invented a new sprocket hole system at the present time it would be adopted by the manufacturers, and two years later it would be adopted by this body, which is foolish when things change as fast as they do now. We have grave problems in connection with standards; one is the talking film business. We have seen the mix-up we have got into on speeds for musical films. Incidentally, we are in trouble on all speeds. We have said there is to be an average speed of 60 feet per minute for cameras and 80 feet per minute for projection with normal presentation, which is not true, as we know. Of course, all that has arisen from the fact that the Maltese cross movement won't give a flickerless screen at 60 feet a minute, and the projectors have to be speeded up apart from the conflict between exhibitor and producer as to how much film should be shown in an hour. Now, when this is done, the taking speed should also be 80 feet per minute; the Society made the mistake of not asking the men to take at 80 when they were going to project at that speed. Through our Transactions, the Western Electric Company have adopted a speed of 90 feet a minute, and the people who are starting to work with them find it necessary to project at this speed. We can't ask people now in production to adopt something different and our speed of 80 feet a minute is obsolete anyway. None of the theaters are running under 90 feet, so that we may as well accept facts and acknowledge that the speeds were adopted in the days of our ignorance. In the case of sound reproduction, taking and projecting speeds must be the same. The General Electric adopted 85 feet a minute.

We come to the question of the gate for the talking movie, and that we must standardize. We have a regulation that the height of the picture is to be three-quarters of the width. In the case of talking films, that is impossible, and there are other experimental films coming along in which the shape of the aperture will be different. The Society should take a hand at this point of the argument.

Then, the whole field of the amateur apparatus requires standardization very badly. It has been standardized as much as it has because the Eastman Kodak Company started making film for it and has standardized the film. The Society approved the 16 mm film size and should now adopt standards for gates and sprockets so that they fit the film. In the past, manufacturers have discussed the matter with the Kodak Company and they suggested what should be done so that the matter is not in chaos, but it will be very soon. The German manufacturers are starting in this field and others are also considering it.

I think the Standards Committee have a lot of work before them, and we must probably alter our methods. I do not think we can improve the personnel or willingness of the Committee, but I think we must strengthen it.

President Cook: With regard to standardization on certain features, we are delayed because of just such discussions as came up this morning.

Dr. Mees: I am asking that the Standards Committee of the Society get ahead on the standardizing of new things as soon as they come out, so that other people will adopt them. If the speed of projection of musical film had been laid down at a meeting of the Society, then the Western Electric Company and others would have agreed, especially if they had had a letter from the committee.

Mr. Richardson: For the most part I regard what Dr. Mees has said as in every way excellent. The points he has raised are pertinent. For many years I have preached the gospel. that camera and projector speed should be the same. I have been roundly abused and even ridiculed for doing so. When the matter first came before this Society I had many arguments with my colleagues on the Standards and Nomenclature Committee concerning the advisability of making a recommendation that camera or "taking" speed and projection speed be the same. I was over-ruled chiefly on the ground that inasmuch as to increase taking speed to the relatively high projection speed made necessary by the demand for high screen illumination would compel the use of much more negative film, hence Producers would not adopt the recommendation even though it be made. The chief function of this Society is to determine what is the correct practice and to establish that finding as a recommended practice or standard. If the manufacturer does not wish to follow correct practice, it is no concern of this Society.

Mr. Cuffe: I don't think adopting a particular projection speed will help much; camera speeds vary. You can go out on any set and find a speed from 10 up to a great speed. When a director gets his picture in the cutting room, he cuts for a certain projection speed. There are not two directors cutting for the same speed. If the picture is projected slower than that speed for which he cuts, it will drag. Griffith cuts his pictures to waltz tempo and another director will cut to a speed of 100 feet, and when run at a speed less than this, the action will drag on the screen; another will cut to 85 feet.

Mr. Richardson: On what do they base this?

Mr. Cuffe: On the temperamental inclination of the director.

President Cook: We all realize that, a standard taking and projecting speed is not possible because it is under the control of the cameraman and director, and the most we can hope for is recommended practice. Standards adopted are very easily susceptible to revision and amendment, and Mr. Schlink of the American Engineering Standards Committee pointed out that it was not desirable to delay adoption of a standard because it was to be changed later. Most of the time of their committee is taken up with changes which are desirable. The procedure for revision is far simpler than for original adoption, and on that account the Standards Committee urged the adoption of standards even tentatively in an effort to clarify features of the industry with the idea that with progress they can be revised to suit new conditions.

Mr. Stewart: No matter what we agree to be standards, there are bound to be certain objections. A film is being made of 16 mm. width mounted on a thin brass base having a 28 mm. sprocket hole.

President Cook: That would not detract from our making standards as fast as we can.

Dr. Gage: For the information of the Society I will say that Dr. Mees will get a letter from the Committee saying that any recommendation he has in mind be reduced to drawings for the Transactions, and these will be presented at the next meeting to find out if the Society wishes to incorporate them- as standard. The different manufacturers who sent us the information they did as to projection speeds, aperture dimensions, and so on will get a complete set of all the letters sent in to the Committee, so that they can think things over and will get the suggestion that they get together and standardize something so that we can take it up at the next meeting.

President Cook: The Chair recommends to the Chairman of the Membership Committee that he make an effort to secure at least one representative member from each of the new talking movie companies- the General Electric and others- so that they may be represented not only in the membership but on the Standards Committee. The Chair will be pleased to appoint a representative member from each of these organizations on the Standards Committee in an effort to clarify standards of this new branch of talking movies.

Dr. Hickman: The President's suggestion that members of leading firms be asked to join the Society for the purpose of cooperating with the Standards Committee shall be attended to immediately. We have circularized such men in the last few months but have received the same excuse in each case; namely, that they could not spare the money personally. Now it is my very strong feeling that such men should be made members of the Society by their parent firms, that it is in the interest of the firms to be represented, and that they should therefore pay the dues. I suggest that Dr. Gage write to the heads of departments of the big technical companies and put the matter before them.

A request for cooperation sent to English firms through Mr. Vinton received another rebuff, which you may agree was a just one. Mr. Vinton said that so long as our attitude towards the Standards proposed by other people at the Paris conference remained unsatisfactory, he would not feel justified in recommending membership to his coworkers. Surely, we should look into the matter and dispel such feelings.

President Cook: That is what Dr. Gage has done in the present instance. I think your suggestion is a good one- that the invitation to membership representatives in our Society would very properly come from the Chairman of the Standards Committee in his reply to those letters, so that we should start at the top, and they would delegate the member to come in. I suggest, Dr. Gage, that you recommend that one of their members join the Society for this purpose.

Mr. Beggs: I think the Standards Committee should be interested in different types of incandescent lamps for studio lighting to avoid disagreements on use. It is the same matter as would come before the American Railroad Association.

President Cook: I suggest that you write a letter to the Committee and place the matter before them.

Excerpt from "Report of the Standards and Nomenclature Committee: Camera and Projector Speeds," Transactions of S.M.P.E., No. 36, meeting of April 25-28, 1927, pages 443-449.

© 1998, David Pierce, on editing and revisions (if any)

Return to the Silent Film Bookshelf Home Page