[-]so for those who could pay 35K a year for private school - why wouldn't you?
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i can't say i won't change my tune when MS comes, but for elementary i do not see any reason to do private. not a big fan of entitlement or exclusion; i am a fan of neighborhood schoools and diversity. so we save the money.
[ Reply | Options ]I feel exactly the same way. I recognize that the academics can be amazing in private, but I'm completely turned off by the idea of sending dc to a school filled with rich people. I know there are a miniscule number of "exceptions", but I have to laugh when the "not rich" diversity in privates are families of highly educated parents who went to good colleges and happen to have "interesting" jobs that pay less money. I strongly doubt there are many kids in K who are from typical middle or working class families -- plumbers, doormen, fed ex delivery workers. I'm fortune to have a zoned public that has families from all backgrounds, but I'd feel the same way about some rich suburban public school as well.
[ Reply | Options ]OR: and i just can't buy into this idea that TT K is necessary for a good education or successful life. I went to pretty crappy elementary schools, and i relaly don't see it having set me back.
[ Reply | Options ]Me, too. Went to top liberal arts college from mediocre public. The private school kids had an easier time first year, but the rest of us caught up pretty quickly and despite starting with a huge advantage, the private school kids weren't necessarily the stars. And in the long run, there's no difference at all. Making a happy life for yourself isn't about going to a tt K, it's about the intangibles you get from your parents and experiences.
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we are lucky to be in a position where we can get by without spending the $$ = very good public option - i understand that private might be "better" on a scale - but we are pretty sure that it will nto be a big differential for our child
[ Reply | Options ]i'm a big proponent of public schools. i went to a great suburban one in the midwest (westinghouse scholars, etc.) and i feel like part of the whole experience was meeting all kinds of dcs who weren't handpicked for any reason, they were just there, including ones whose families were on public assistance and who were just seen as dcs, not charity cases. i'm not knocking privates, i just think the public philosophy is a better fit for us.
[ Reply | Options ]you cannot possibly think that if you could afford a private school IN NEW YORK CITY you would choose to send your dc to a public facility. please... this discussion has no merit. not in NYC. in midwest - yes. not here, baby.
[ Reply | Options ]Except obviously the discussion DOES have merit because several posters have stated that they would. I am one of them. I went to public school my whole life. Public schools taught me English in one year and put me in honors classes the next. Public schools put me in an Ivy. I could afford it, but I wouldn't send DC to it.
[ Reply | Options ]Parents like you (and your overentitled kids) are but two of the reasons I keep my kids out of private school.
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i don't know anyone who wouldn't. nyc public schools are not very attractive IMO
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My child isn't a "reject." Her school is not a depository of rejects. Her classmates are not slow or behavior problems. Have you ever visited these schools? I don't buy clothes for labels, nor do I think that lables defne schools. I wil gladly discuss our school with you in detail, if you wish.
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Because every time a wealthy person buys their way out of a broken public system, they are ensuring that the system stays broken. I'd rather try to fix the system from within.
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I can teach my kids that I'm willing to compromise my integrity by sending them to private school. Or I can live in a way that is consistent with my politics. My kids get to sit down to a healthy dinner with two living parents in a comfortable home every night. Aren't they already better off than 99% of the kids in this world? Just how many more advantages do they need? And, fwiw, the check I write to our PS every year makes a much bigger difference than it would in any NYC private.
[ Reply | Options ]Really? We feel that the check we write to our private scholarship fund makes a great deal of difference. DH attended the TT school on scholarship and it sure made a difference to him!
[ Reply | Options ]The check you write enables one or a handful of kids to attend your TT school. The check I write affects 100% of the kids in my PS, including the 15% who are living below the poverty line. How many of those are there at your TT? (And ask your dh a question for me... how long did it take for every kid in the school to know he was there on scholarship? When I was at a TT, everyone knew before we found our lockers on the first day.)
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I'd rather hasten the system's complete breakdown so we can get started on building a better one. And FWIW, DH and I are African-American. We've seen what this system has done for "our" children and we want no part of it.
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That is the billion dollar question with a million and one "right" answers. My answer is lots and lots of parental involvement in schools. But if you were raised by a crack-head mom and no father, I can say for a fact that kids like me were pretty much on our own and stuck in a shitty school and really no one gave a damn. I'm sure not much has changed for kids like me in good ol 2009.
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[-]Diversity coordinator here. Any questions? (FYI: At our school it's a volunteer parents position, not staff)
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[-]I tutor DCs in some low-tier privates...some of these schools are really weak academically (based on the homework the kids are getting). Some of my students are using me for enrichment, btw
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OP: Depends on the child. For most kids the class size is NOT an issue until it hits 30. DCs are way more resilient than parents give them credit for. I would pick a zoned public for a DC without sensory issues, before a low-tier private. Then by middle-school I would see how strong academically my DC would be and take it from there. Of course my dream school would be something like Trinity or Horace Mann
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Can you give an example of what you are talking about? How so poor academically? Can you name a school?
[ Reply | Options ]I can not name a school, but I can give examples. When 3rd grade students still learn double-digit addition and 2nd grade students learn to tell time, I call that "weak academically". Also the books they read are one year behind the average DC in public (we're talking 2nd graders reading easy picture books)
[ Reply | Options ]At our non-tt school there is a great range of abilities in all subject areas. Most dc being tutored need help - they are not the best group to judge the school by. In my experience only math clearly lags behind the tt schools.
[ Reply | Options ]OP: You really touched on a major difference between tt and non-tt privates. At tt privates there's not a "great range of abilities" and teachers can move at a much faster pace
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, but parents need to know that top students can get an excellent education at non-tt schools.
[ Reply | Options ]OP: "excellent" varies depending on a child's ability - right? I would define "excellent" as an education that helps a child reach his/her potential. So for some DCs a low-tier private would be very inadequate and for some it would be "excellent". One word of caution though: Beware of nurturing schools with "a great range of abilities" - they tend to teach to the lowest common denominator
[ Reply | Options ]I agree. This is tough to talk about this week. Of the 2500-3000 applicants waiting to hear only about 10 percent will get a tt spot.(assuming about 500 tt spots with half going to sib/leg) Most will be going to non-tt schools. My advice - take a hard look at how willing and able the school is to individualize curriculum. If the can't do this it can't meet the needs of top students.
[ Reply | Options ]np--I don't think it's just individualizing the curricula, especially in older grades. I think it's more about a teacher expecting work that matches a child's potential. In something like math, my dc's 7th grade teacher always has extra credit questions that are more challenging.
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np. By your definition, most of the "TT" schools would be considered weak academically, at least in math. In my experience, the better the school, the less they push academics in the early years. Middle school is where the big differences start to show up. Until then they take their time and build a rock solid foundation.
[ Reply | Options ]ITA. I think the tt schools allow children's development to unfold at different rates... They know, for example, tbat a firrst grader who is barely reading, but listens to complex books and asks subtle questions is likely to have mjch better reading comprehension later than a child who is decoding like a champ at 5, but who can't talk meaningfully about what he/she has read.
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Why don't you name the schools? Do you tutor children in higher-tier privates as well?
[ Reply | Options ]I have a student of a tt school the material he covers is way more accelerated. The do grammar, astronomy, geography, history that are a year or two ahead of zoned publics
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As if a "tutor" knows everything about every school. I take all of this with a huge chunk of salt, and I bet this post is fake anyway. Probably just someone posting trying to scare people away from the so-called lower-tier schools as the notification date approaches.
[ Reply | Options ]This was actually helpful for me as we are considering private. FWIW, we have a DC related to us who goes to a chinatown G&T and dad told me that her tutor says that DC math homework is too hard and completely inappropriate developmentally for children (DC is in K and gets 45 minutes/day of homework)
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[-]The new preschool director at our school just spoke to me SO RUDELY. I don't even know what to do. Who the F does she think she is?
16 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Kill her with kindness. I find with people like that, the nicer I get the more thrown off their game they get. And ask specific questions, especially if she said something so rude and outrageous. Also, follow up with a question. That will really confuse her and force her to speak to you respectfully on the next go-round.
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oh please! anyobe who has been around for anytime will see right through that and hate you for it. that sickly sweet bs in the midst of a tense exchange is nothing more than pure hostility, and if OP wants her psd to help her, she should definitely avoid that tactic. see ths all the time among pta ladies, and they are usually bubbling over with pushiness and hostility. most would go out of their way to foil an a hole like that.
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Say what!!! I agreed with this above, and what the heck are you saying? It's very hateful to reply with kindness when someone is rude? I should be rude back? So what exactly is the "man" thing to do -- challenge the woman to a fight outside?
[ Reply | Options ]Good one. I didn't realize the woman was using a rude tone. Honestly, not a lot you can do about someone's tone. But if the director had said something completely out of line, I say question her on it without being aggressive. I'm not sure what she could say that would be so upsetting to a parent. So I would need an example.
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So what they will hate me. I just don't always believe in responding to rudeness with rudeness especially if the situation involves my child. There are rude people everywhere and I see no need to be rude back or aggressive as it usually leads to nowhere. Doesn't mean you have to take someone's hit lying down but I have no interest in being hostile with anyone. If you want to get in the directors face about a slight, go for it. Plus I'm Black and as soon as a White person sees a Black woman getting tense they become afraid and see a bitter Black bitch. So I always maintain my politeness while still hoping to get something positive out of a tense exchange.
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Maybe you were being a PITA and she was fed up with it and put you in your place and now you think SHE spoke to YOU so rudely. A likely scenario.
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[-]School districts across the U.S. are trying to improve student performance and low test scores. But few have taken as radical an approach as Adams 50. For starters, when the elementary and middle-school students come back next fall, there won't be any grade levels – or traditional grades, for that matter. And those are only the most visible changes in a district that, striving to reverse dismal test scores and a soaring dropout rate, is opting for a wholesale reinvention of itself, rather than the incremental reforms usually favored by administrators. Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490805,00.html
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]The change that's getting by far the most attention is the decision to do away with traditional grade levels – for kids younger than eighth grade, this first year, though the district plans to phase in the reform through high school a year at a time. Ultimately, there will be 10 multiage levels, rather than 12 grades, and students might be in different levels depending on the subject. They'll move up only as they demonstrate mastery of the material.
[ Reply | Options ]i think it's interesting that they're using a "B" rather than a "C" as the min passing grade, but then they're worried how to explain to colleges that everyone will have at least a 3.0 GPA. AFAIC, not sure a college cares whether all 300 kids in the class have at least a "B" - they look at each applicant individually and there would still be ranking of graduates i would guess.
[ Reply | Options ]I should think SAT scores could be a great divider when it comes to college level. I just think it's such a great idea in lower grades, though. That's where you really see the different ability levels. It also takes the onus off kids to be "gifted" in everything. Some phenomenal readers are perfectly average in math and vice versa.
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[-]Benefits of raising kids in the city are.....Benefits of raising kids in the suburbs are......
26 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]city: something new to do every single day if you want to; suburbs: you can let them ride their bike or roller blade around without having to be next to them
[ Reply | Options ]Re your burbs comment, you can do that in NYC of course. And NYC kids become more independent than their suburban counterparts starting in middle school - riding the city bus and subways and walking around with friends, on their own.
[ Reply | Options ]I don't know about that. I grew up in the suburbs and used to go on bike trips and walks to the local strip mall, etc. too around middle school. Plus we drive in the suburbs. Plus there's just something about having a nice green lawn and looking out of your window to see the woods.
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Both have benefits but I'd HATE to have my teens in the suburbs. It'd be okay for early childhood but we'd need to get back to the city for autonomy skillset. I'd rather they took the bus to the Moma(or wherever) if they cut school, rather than hopping in a car to whatever house to do whatever.
[ Reply | Options ]eh, I would rather forego some of the independence (and I don't know why that's so necessary in early childhood since that's sort of the main point of adolescence and college) for some fresh air and surrounding greenery
[ Reply | Options ]Please reread my reply.I think the suburbs (actually country or rural areas, for me) would have more benefits to a younger child, since parents/home are still very central to their everyday life.I'm an aunt to urban kids and suburban kids. The urban kids know how to get around, take advantage of the city's offerings and are more invested in planning and living their own lives, as young adults and moving forward. They have a more global view, travel outside of the city and the US and have clearly benefited from more multi-cultural,socio-economically varied environment.The suburban kids were sexually active at an earlier age, tend to hang out in culturally and racially segregated and homogenous groups,have some very sheltered views as a resul...
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The benefit of raising my kids in the city is that they get to be raised in their home. If they lived in the suburbs i don't know who would be raising them!
[ Reply | Options ]City: dcs get exposed to a wide variety of people (rich, poor, different languages, different colors...) as opposed to cookie-cutter suburbs, where everyone tends to be like their neighbors.
[ Reply | Options ]I"ve done both. We were in the city until oldest was in middle school. I can't wait to move back to the city but I am absolutely cnovinced that they have a less pressured, higher quality of life out here. THere is something very normal about going to your neighborhood school. We still walk places, they still go to museums, their friends are just as diverse. It really depends on the burb of course, just as it depends on how you live your life in NYC.
[ Reply | Options ]the kids (meaning tweens and teens) are too bore in the burbs. All they do is get into trouble (drugs, car racing, sex parties). This can happen anywhere but at least in the city the kids actually have places to visit that they can walk to and not all have to drive (with their friends) to do anything
[ Reply | Options ]lol, my teen ds does exactly what his nyc friends do. THey go to friends homes, play video games and go to the movies. The 1 difference is he can't just hop in a cab so I have to be around to drive if he's going too far.
[ Reply | Options ]Your lol is strange to me; Our teens don't have those activities central to their lives, except the going to friends' homes. It's always amazing how much I get 'turned on' to, via my kids. They tell me what's at the Moma, about performances, community cultural events and film festivals.I'm not saying they've never played Wii, but it's a novelty.My kids watched Gossip Girl(once)at the insistence of their NJ suburban cousins and got halfway through. I'm the one feeling like I could leave ny, but they have what I did at their ages and I'd never take it away.
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As someone who has done both, here are the plusses and minues: In city, you have more free time to spend with family on w/e because you are not spending time on the house (Although this would not be true if you are wealthy enough to have others take care of every little thing in the house.) In suburbs, kids run outside in yard whenever they want. Next door neighbor kids are out and they have spontaneous play. When indoors in burbs, kids have basement to play in.
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Packer or PS 234?
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[-]Young August DS shut out last year. Reapplying again this year and thanks to feedback are cautiously optimistic. I know DS won't be oldest in his class since I hear people hold July boys back too, but I'm curious, what is the oldest you've heard of a child being held back? One person told me May???
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Sadly, this hasn't changed. A few DFs still waiting to hear on spots for D siblings at other schools.
[ Reply | Options ]I agree (another Dalton parent here). It's my least favorite thing about the school. I've heard about them rejecting sibs with 95+ ERBs because the child's score on ONE section of the test (e.g. matrix reasoning) was too low. I think it's absurd (and, FWIW, both my kids attend the school, so it's no sour grapes here).
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This is not true. They don't automatically accept siblings, but tend to only reject those for obvious reasons (ie. low ERB or developmental issue).
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Our PSD was told by Dalton that they have so many girl siblings in their own community for K this year that they may not be going outside their community. Seems like they do except siblings.
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That's a line, by the way. The year my dd applied, she got positive feedback from Dalton, but I know that Babby told a friend applying with her dd from another school that "It was a really tough year for girls because we have so many siblings." I think it's a gentle way of saying no.
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[-]Which colleges are most similar to the NYC privates in terms of reputation and vibe of schools? I'll start the first one:
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[-]After all this blood sweat and tears, does anyone's who has btdt have a ds that likes or even loves school? Which school? What grade? (K doesnt count)
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did dc like NEST prior to 3rd grade? i've heard homework in 3rd grade gets worse (i have a dc in 1st but it seems manageable still) - why does dc hate it?
[ Reply | Options ]hates the work. begs me to leave, thinking about switching if not now, then next year.
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I have a DS at NEST. He and most of his friends hated third grade. First, there's the huge adjustment of test prep. Second, the reading assignments for the thematic studies were poorly written.
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my dc likes 3rd much better than 2nd - it's all about the teacher, Nest teachers are very uneven
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my dd loves Dalton ... second grade, and she's been happy every single year so far.
[ Reply | Options ]No blood, no sweat, no tears. Both my boys love PS 3. We pulled our oldest out of a top private school to send him there, and never considered sending the younger one anywhere else.
[ Reply | Options ]huh?? are you freakin nuts? what are you going to do for MS? now THAT sounds like a nightmare in public schools! my die-hard PS bf has scared the sh*t out of me with that process! and you pulled an eldest out who would have helped get the younger ones in? sorry for the venom but i can't fathom it...and i'm at a PS and happy!
[ Reply | Options ]really? what do you like about it? does it foster creativity better than private? i know people who have pulled dcs from ps3. to each his own, i guess.
[ Reply | Options ]I suspect my priorities are a bit different from most people's. More than any other school I've seen, PS 3 respects its students. My kids genuinely like themselves. I'm not talking about self-esteem, either. I mean they feel good about who they are as people. Academically, I'm sure we could do better, but they've done a great job of accommodating my kids' special needs.
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DD loves NEST (kindergarten). She is so happy there, even happier than she was at preschool
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DS, 4th grade, good gen ed. Loves going to school every day. Academics are easy for him (not especially challenging). Dh and I have, over the years, thought about private for that reason, but having school be such a positive experience is so valuable beyond what ds may actually be learning, and it's very hard to leave a great thing for an unknown. We'll see about MS, but hope to stay public.
[ Reply | Options ]That was me a few years ago. I couldn't go through with the termination, but then I miscarried, and my overwhelming feeling was one of relief, not sorrow. Don't get me wrong -- I was sad. I cried. But I think some of my tears were guilt over just how relieved I felt. A few years later, and mostly I feel grateful. I have moments of wondering, but they are few and far between. Good luck making your decision. I know how hard it is.
[ Reply | Options ]ds loves Anderson- 3rd grade (but there are far fewer ds in the lower grades since the doe took over admissions)
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my stepkids (hs junior and sixth grader) love friends in manhattan but I can't say I'm all that impressed by the curriculum. though my stepkids do okay, they both don't study enough and the school has a noncompetitive, you're the most awesome kid on the planet vibe that I'm not sure inspires working a little harder.
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[-]Are there any elementary schools in NYC (public schools or private) that are known for super duper arts/music programs?
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np: yes, there are. there are 2 G&Ts --130 and 124. if you look at test scores, the schools do very well, especially when you consider many kids are ELL and/or do not have parents who speak english.
[ Reply | Options ]And other schools in Chinatown are great too, besides just the G&T ones. But UB white families don't like sending their kids there because it's too Asian.
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i toured because there is a G&T program, D2. i was shocked an amazed. the principal there for 20 years has gotten so many grants and partnered with so many arts, music and dance programs that its crazy. i was highly impressed. nice building, too. major multi million dollar renovation. great afterschool program, too where kids receive homework help for half and activities for other half. i have 2 friends with kids in G&T that love it. but i have the sense that gen ed is also fantastic. also very academic.
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PS11 has the Music and the Brain program. Weekly theater class and the Joyce Theater comes in once a week for dance.
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[-]Is it just me or is there hardly any preschool talk this year?
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[-]BC in Park Slope. Lots of trashing here but remember the neighborhood has changed drastically over the years and the competition to get in has become way more fierce. It is increasingly becoming a pretty hot place and if you live in Park Slope the idea of having your kids stay in the neighborhood throughout 12th (but still have the experience of going to a different building) is very appealing. The sports, arts and community are great - what else could you possibly want unless you are seeking some bizarre notion of "city wide status"
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]i wouldn't say it has changed drastically. it was never a ghetto. i lived there over 20 years ago, and it was always aging middle-class hippie families and lesbians. personally, i don't love the school options there beyond elementary.
[ Reply | Options ]I think OP means Berkeley Carroll, a private school in park slope. I guess OP thinks everyone would understand this, but I didn't have a clue what this post meant until the 3rd time I read it.
[ Reply | Options ]oh sorry but the rest of us are supposed to intuitively know what "B" and "C" is....
[ Reply | Options ]^^^also, OP means that the neighborhood has changed because the many, rich, new people coming in wouldn't think of sending their little kiddies to public school, so Berkeley Carroll is now more desirable and better. Park Slope used to be mainly middle class parents who valued public school and made the publics there better, but now there are many, many families who want only private and have the $30,000/year per kid to pay for it.
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I'm not bitter, I'm being snarky about your post. Didn't you notice that everyone who answered you (except me) is talking about the neighborhood of Park Slope being desirable or not, but doesn't have a clue about BC. They think you are talking about how Park Slope isn't crummy anymore, but your point was about more private school type parents moving in. I happen to agree with your point that if there are way more applicants for BC and competition for the spots it does drive up the quality of accepted students. But since I'm not a fan of the idea that the more "exclusive" a school is, the better, I posted a snarky response. Sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]Except that everyone is on here all day talking about NBS, MAP, CPGS, etc. and everyone is expected to know what they're talking about.
[ Reply | Options ]But responders DO know what they're talking about. That's all I'm saying. If you said P, responders wouldn't know you meant "Packer" either. You have the same right to abbreviate BC as anyone else to abbreviate NBS, but if no one know what you mean, what's the point? Can't you see what I mean? Look at the last response below! That person hasn't a clue about BC.
[ Reply | Options ]I didn't know what CGPS was for a long time, except that it was UWS and I don't live there, so I would just skip over. Most Brooklyn people would get this I think. Or, it's fine to ask to clarify, but don't jump all over her.
[ Reply | Options ]I didn't jump all over her, I just posted a snarky answer and she called me bitter. Look at the responses -- no one understood her point at all except me and I was telling the ORs what she meant (in a snarky way, I admit). I apologize for being snarky, but I'm not jumping all over her.
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[-]Sorry to repost but can someone clarify. We are moving into a new place, but buyers of old place can't move quickly (holds up our purchase). Basically we will not close until end of April Beg of May. The school zone we are moving into is very desirable. Can you tell me if they can possibly not let my dc into the school b/c of our timeline? Doesn't the city HAVE To let all kids zoned in a district into the gen ed school?
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Again, for the first year the DOE is threatening this, but the chances of any zoned kid being turned away from his/her zoned school because he moved in late and couldn't register is next to nil. It has NOT happened in past, despite threats, And, the schools are so full of 'special' out of zone exceptions that if I were such a parent and it happened, I'd threaten to sue and I bet you anything the school would cave and find a place for your child. They can't turn away a kid from the zone and let in a sibling out of zone -- it just wouldn't hold up in court.
[ Reply | Options ]we are at a very desirable school and spots are opening up due to people leaving the city. if dc is not in k, i wouldn't worry about it.
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[-]What is the role of the parent coordinator in a public school? Is it to be a liaison between the parent and the admin, or the parent and the DOE, or something else entirely? TIA
12 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]My experience has been that they do very little that is useful and this is a paid position that should be eliminated during these economic times. I'd much rather see one or two extra pt teachers or aides. I find PCs to be either obstructionist (when you are touring and considering attending) or useless (when you actually attend).
[ Reply | Options ]Wow, the PC at our child's school is incredible! She IS a parent and that seems to be a plus when it comes to considering the details, workload and concerns that are involved with the job. The PC is probably the first in and last out every day, schedules parents and kids for interview/admissions/makes certain all the busing/transportation/afterschool, field trip, lunch program and endless other things. From school photos to assemblies, fairs, fundraisers,community events, teacher/parent relations, assisting families and kids with assessments, services,helping families access out of school services, representing the program well-with boundless enthusiasm and competence, our PC is more than likely underpaid!
[ Reply | Options ]everything you list is fine and even great, except for the teacher/parent relations. I think if she is or was a parent in the school, she has a bias, and a parent would not feel comfortable going to her for this. that is what the principal is there for, or AP. some parents may have a close relationship with her for years, or because of pta involvement, or tthe pc loved a particular teacher for her dc, or hated her or whatever. I would think the school would not put parents in the awkward position of dealing with the PC for difficult, sensitive matters.
[ Reply | Options ]Actually, my reference to parent-teacher relations isn't to imply that there is any barrier between ourselves communicating with either the principal or teachers. Our school community is very culturally diverse and some of the families go to the PC for many different reasons, including simply needing to know how to deal with any situation. The PC knows every kid in the program by name and family and everyone in the school admires and appreciates her dedicated, generous hard work and competence.
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Do/Did you and your partner want the same number of children?
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Site Feedback Thank you for your feedback about the new site. We are paying close attention to your comments and we will incorporate them as we make improvements to the site. Please continue to report problems and offer feedback on the Site Feedback Board and visit our Site Talk blog for answers to some of your questions and updates on specific issues.
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