Table Manners
Surprise! I’m at Your DoorAre ambush visits rude? |
There’s no question from readers this week. Instead, Helena will tackle a dilemma presented to her at a recent TV appearance.
I was interviewed on the Rachael Ray show a few weeks ago, and an audience member asked, “I hate when my friends go through trouble to get things in order when they know I am coming over, so I like to stop by unannounced to see them. Is it ever OK to do a drop-by visit?”
These days arranging a get-together with your friends can be fraught with difficulty. Trying to schedule a dinner party, or even meet for drinks in a bar, may take more than a dozen emails to coordinate. Most likely you’ll end up with a date two months away, and then you’ll have to send out a reminder or people will assume it’s not happening. A surprise visit obviously eliminates these types of hassles.
Moreover, I believe that paying a surprise visit should be viewed as a huge compliment to the host. It’s not a prearranged obligation, so it shows you really want to see your friend. And since there are no hors d’oeuvres to fiddle with, nor any specific activity planned, there’s nothing to distract the two of you from having quality, unscripted time together.
But what if, you may ask, your host is in the middle of something he doesn’t want interrupted? There’s a solution to this. Instead of ringing the doorbell, I recommend calling your friend when you’re five minutes away. If he doesn’t want to be bothered, he can screen your call. If he wants you to come over, five minutes is just enough time for him to hide any embarrassing items he might have lying about or quickly tidy the bathroom.
When you drop by unannounced, you may find your host is a bit reluctant. Don’t take this personally. We’re so used to planning every minute of our time that spontaneity can make people anxious. He might be inwardly panicking about getting his chores done or missing his favorite TV show. Break through this resistance by giving your visit an end point: Tell him you’re only stopping by for a quick visit, and don’t stay longer than an hour, at most.
As a guest, you should always try to be low maintenance, and this is even truer for surprise visits. Don’t bring your kids unless your host has some too. And always show up between meals, never right before. If your host seems genuinely eager for you to stay for a meal, then you should help cook it.
Helena will be appearing on the CBS Early Show Wednesday, January 21.
I do so hope this column was intended as a joke.
"You may find your host a bit reluctant. Don't take this personally." Trust me, you'd better take it personally -- your host is, & not in your favor.
"Moreover, I believe that paying a surprise visit should be viewed as a huge compliment to the host. It’s not a prearranged obligation, so it shows you really want to see your friend."
Not in NYC it doesn't. It means your other plans fell through, you want a place to use the bathroom for free, you're drunk, or you just got out of the clubs, don't want to take the train home & are too cheap to spring for a cab. I suppose it might be a booty call, if you are that sort of friend. What it's not is acceptable. Ever. Any day, any hour (especially if your potential host, like me, works long hours & has very little time to spend at home). Appallingly rude.
Sure, you can call me at the last possible moment & tell me that you are in the neighborhood, or even ring my bell (screen my calls? if you are rude enough to drop in, you won't let that stop you). But you won't be setting foot in my apartment that day (or any other, if you try pulling that stunt again). If you think you'll be nearby that day, call in advance (not five minutes ahead) & ask.
Yeah, only with very close friends can the surprise visit be a good thing. Otherwise, it says, "I don't care enough about seeing you to make specific plans, but I'll get it over with now that it's convenient for me."
Unexpected visits are my nightmare. I work from home, being a graduate student, and unless I'm going out or expecting company, I tend to bum around in comfortable old clothes. They're fine for me, but I feel incredibly awkward when anyone sees me in them with my hair not done. Furthermore, as an introvert, I like to have time to mentally prepare for company and not to have it sprung upon me, thus leaving me feeling nervous and self-conscious and unable to enjoy it.
The doorbell ringing unexpectedly is a surprise that I do not need. If you drop by without warning once, you get a stern talking to. Twice, and the friendship ends.
I do have a friend who essentially does what Helena suggests: she calls and says she's about 15 minutes away and asks if she can come over. That seems to work out alright, as it gives me enough time to change and tidy the kitchen a bit. I'd still prefer, though, a day's notice.
Any chance that like most interactions with friends this one depends entirely on the individuals involved?
I'm a happy extrovert and love it when most friends drop by unannounced or with short notice - but they don't expect to be entertained...if I am cooking, they can help chop vegetables while we chat, or whatever else is going on.
Those who I have to steel myself to deal with (or those with allergies to my animals where I need to clean up, or litte kids who will want to play with my toys for example) know that they should call ahead and plan a visit. I don't think this is one where you can have a hard and fast rule - if they are your friends you should know what they prefer or ask them.
Helena, are you already working on the next installment of the "stuff I screwed up" column?
"Moreover, I believe that paying a surprise visit should be viewed as a huge compliment to the host. It’s not a prearranged obligation, so it shows you really want to see your friend. "
That's certainly an interesting take - maybe this logic makes sense to people who think the world revolves around themselves.
If someone comes over unannounced (or with 5 minutes' notice), I hope they don't expect me to drop whatever I'm doing to focus on them. In fact, they'll probably get something like a displeased stare and not-so-subtle hints that maybe giving a heads-up before coming over would be much more polite.
How refreshing! I find that people aren't spontaneous enough. Drop-bys should definately be limited to pretty close friends. If the visit is not appreciated, it will probably be obvious and therefore not repeated. The phone call gives the opportunity for the friend to opt out - so it's not rude.
Such a visit SHOULD be taken as a compliment. I would love the attention from my friends and would feel closer to a friend who would feel comfortable enough to stop by.
Is this article a joke? I do not like or appreciate surprise visits, EVER, not even from my family. I work long hours, and when I am home, unless I have something specifically planned, I hibernate. Most people know that if you do not call me ahead of time (at least an hour) to ask if I'm available and want to get together, and you show up at my door anyway, I won't even answer. Perhaps showing up unannounced was acceptable once upon a time, but not this day and age--when we all work hard and long and cherish our time at home.
It is not spontaneous to show up unannounced at my door and expect me to entertain you at your whim; it's rude. I like doing and planning last minute get-togethers, not all the time--but occasionally, but I must have some notice and a phone call first.
I must sound pretty selfish, but my time at home is exactly that. My time. Please no drop ins.
Unplanned and unannounced visits are not welcome. Has anyone had someone call them repeatedly (and have them repeatedly ignored), only to still have them show up (ringing the doorbell, knocking on the door if they happen to get past the foyer). Oh, and this isn't limited to friends and acquaintences, but family too.
It probably depends upon the culture where you live. In my home village in England, anyone was welcome to stop by at any time (well, not at 3 a.m.!), & if you were, say, ironing a week's worth of laundry, you might ask your visitor (if a friend or neighbor) to make coffee for you both, or maybe have them fold the ironing. The "host" wasn't concerned about her/his appearance or whether the home was untidy--they recognized that their "drop in" had come to see them, not assess their housekeeping skills or critique their wardrobe. If one arrived at an inconvenient time, e.g., if the "visitee" had company, one was either invited in & introduced, or asked to return on another day for "coffee & a chat".
I can't stand unannounced visits - from anyone. Even close friends/family should give me at least 30 minutes notice that they're in the area and would like to stop by for a visit.
I developed a technique I call "porching" to deal with those rude enough to just show up on my doorstep. It was a rather extreme case of rudeness on the part of my former husband's brother and his wife that caused me to start implementing it.
I'd been traveling all week for work and my flight in that Friday night was delayed. I didn't get in until after 11 p.m. (None of that should matter - rude is rude.) Early Saturday morning, before 7 a.m., the brother-in-law and his wife showed up at my door. The now-ex-husband worked on Saturday and was in the shower when they arrived so he didn't hear the doorbell.
Surely, an unannounced visit that early on a weekend morning was an emergency, I thought. So, I grabbed my robe and ran to the door. Seeing who was there, I braced myself for the bad news about someone in the family. I opened the door.
"Hi! We're just out hitting the yard sales and thought we'd drop by!" they cheerfully chirped, no doubt expecting me to invite them in for coffee.
I stared at them with my sleep-crusted eyes and brushed my tangled hair out of my face. I said nothing until they made a move to enter my house. I quickly stepped out on to the porch with them, closing the door behind me. I thought the visual effect of me in my robe on the porch might make my words sink in a little deeper.
"If you know you'll be in the area later in the day, give us a call and maybe we can get together. I'm going back to bed now."
With that, I turned and left them standing, alone, on the porch.
That is porching.
It is incredibly self-centered and inconsiderate to drop in on someone without calling first. I am a very outgoing and friendly person, normally. I love having people over to visit - when they're invited. If you're rude enough to show up unannounced, I'm going to have no qualms about being firm in my resolve (rude, even) to keep you out of my house.
you have got to be kidding. My private time is just that. If I have looked forward to a comfortable afternoon watching a game or reading a book, I am *NOT* going to happy with a drop-in guest.
What a bunch of crabby people. "Porching" is the most ridiculous, rude thing I've ever heard. I'm sure your family and friends just love you, Ima. And you're proud of your rudeness! Wow. I don't mind a surprise visit from a friend, but then again I keep up with my housework and have a well-stocked pantry, so I'm ready for anything. I enjoy opening my door to a friend or family anytime, Where I live, (Houston), people do stop over for a visit - it's not considered an insult, it means people like my company and want to spend time with me. Y'all need to lighten up and enjoy life.
I will never forget the time 12 years ago when my son was about 1 month old. We had recently moved, and a friend from the old neighborhood dropped by unexpectedly one afternoon. While it was meant in all kindness, my heart just sank. I was exhausted, and had just put the baby down for his nap. I wanted nothing more than to crash on the couch, my only time for catching up with my sleep. I was as gracious as I could be, but I was not at my happiest inside. One might wonder why it's so hard to get together with someone; presumably they really are busy. Perhaps this is the afternoon they were going to help their kid with their science project, or clean out the garage, or plan the summer vacation. People's time is precious.
I work from home, usually about 9-10 hours, have to get dinner ready and drive the kids to whatever events they need to get to. However, I appreciate a spontaneous visit from the perspective that it's a (usually) nice change of pace from a hectic routine. If the "drop in" is a friend and you're too busy to banter, then no offense should be taken if you're too busy and tell them that it's an inconvenient time.
I place friendship and companionship above work or personal down time, but clearly other people have different priorities.
Well bully for you lallee. You're obviously superwoman, can juggle 40 jobs at once, and obviously are some sort of Southern Belle, but it has nothing to do with the way my house looks. It has to do with being forced to entertain someone when I am not emotionally or mentally inclined to do so. I am not a natural Hostess. I hate parties, and I cannot switch mental gears at the turn of hat when I have unexpected company. I am very much an introvert and highly value my alone time. Entertaining, especially at the last minute, is highly exhausting for me. There is absolutely no reason why someone cannot call a few hours ahead of time in order to plan something. Thankfully, all my friends highly respect this need and appreciate the courtesy in return
For the record, even Miss Manners asserts that it's rude to drop in on someone unannounced. I consider her a better authority on good manners and courtesy than Helena Echlin ever will be.
I'm with you lallee, people are getting more rude and crabby. These are friends and family that people are cutting out of their lives. I remember growing up neighbors stopped in to say hi or borrow something. Us kids could go to any house in the neighborhood and feel welcome since everyone knew each other and our parents didn't have to worry. Now in the same neighborhood, as new people move in and the original owners move out, there is no real neighborhood unity because the new people don't just stop by to say hello and introduce themselves. It was really evident this past Halloween when no one went trick-or-treating, instead went "trunking" because the parents don't think it is safe.
It's not hard to say to an unexpected guest, "this visit can't be long I have XYZ to do..." Or "I'm doing XYZ, but you can help or sit down and keep me company"
I always joke with my friends that life is not like Seinfeld or Friends.
Most of us have no desire to have people in our space and business 24 hours a day. Most of us have jobs and other obligations that leave our time pretty scheduled. Even what appears to be "free" time usually isn't. That's my time to do laundry, reply to emails, clean my house, return phone calls, run errands, etc.
And I never answer my doorbell anyway unless I am specifically expecting someone (delivery or friend). I have no desire to chat with solicitors. And also no desire to grant access to the building to someone who shouldn't be there.
Good thing that I choose friends who are like me and would never drop by like that. Sometimes we do meet last minute, but it's more like "Hey, Im in the hood - wanna grab a coffee in an hour?"
I don't mind unexpected visitors but I can certainly understand why some people are against it.
If you're busy, it's not hard to simply tell your friends that it's an inconvenient time and that you appreciate that they thought of you. If they are truly your friends, they'll understand.
As for me, I always welcome the chance to chit chat and always keep doing what I'm doing and explain it to my friends. If they wish to stay while I beaver away, they're more than welcome but I'm sure not going to stop doing something just because they showed up unexpectedly.
I count myself lucky that I have friends who are as laid back as I am about these things.
I assure you, Viperlush, I am not friendship deprived, but all of my friends and family are courteous and respectful of each others' personal time. It takes 5 seconds to call someone to see if they have some free time for a visit. I often call up girl friends a day or a few hours in advance to invite them over for tea or a light lunch. If I have at least a few hours to prepare for a visit, I feel much calmer and more open with my friends, and I can enjoy their company more. I am also very greedy about time with my husband, and I don't appreciate unexpected guests barging in on our time together.
rokzane, Viperlush wasn't criticizing you personally. Viperslush was agreeing with me! There is a difference. I couldn't respond sooner asI was entertaining my friends on my veranda. They stopped by unexpectedly for mint juleps and biscuits. Good thing I had some already prepared!
Dropping in for a visit unannounced used to be the only way to do things. Now we have this thing called the telephone. It is a marvelous invention. I'm told that some people even have these things called cell phones that let them call from anywhere.
It may be rude to leave people standing on the porch with their mouths wide open, but not as rude as showing up at 7 in the morning without warning.
If a friend suddenly discovers that they are nearby and want to get together, yes I consider it a compliment. And I am very glad that they CALLED and asked if I wanted to go have a cup of coffee or whatever. But just knocking on the door when there are much more polite ways of finding out if I am busy is just plain inconsiderate, and that has always been rude.
Yikes. All of the sudden we're "rude and crabby" because we want to keep our private time private?
I'm an enthusiastic cook and baker, and I try my best to keep my house clean. But does that mean I'm always ready for guests? No! Sometimes I want to have a quiet evening with just my husband. Or I want to read a book, or watch my favorite TV show.
I love my friends and family, but that doesn't mean that they're welcome in my house whenever it's convenient for them. They're welcome when it's convenient for me, and vice versa. I hate being told that savoring my alone time, or asking for a quick phone call before someone shows up means that I should "lighten up and enjoy life."
Yikes. All of the sudden we're "rude and crabby" because we want to keep our private time private?
I'm an enthusiastic cook and baker, and I try my best to keep my house clean. But does that mean I'm always ready for guests? No! Sometimes I want to have a quiet evening with just my husband. Or I want to read a book, or watch my favorite TV show.
I love my friends and family, but that doesn't mean that they're welcome in my house whenever it's convenient for them. They're welcome when it's convenient for me, and vice versa. I hate being told that savoring my alone time, or asking for a quick phone call before someone shows up means that I should "lighten up and enjoy life."
sorry for the double post!
I just calculated that I have 15 hours of non-sleep time at home Monday - Friday. Free time on the weekends is usually devoted to cleaning, errands, and spending quality time with my husband and child. Quite frankly, I just don't have time for anyone to drop in unannounced and I don't appreciate it when it happens.
Sure, I remember my childhood with my stay-at-home Mom and neighbor ladies dropping by in the afternoon...well, that's not my world and unless I win the freakin' lottery, it won't be my world until I retire.
Just pick up the phone the night before, that's all it takes. I'll be happy to see you.
Oh, I'm sure you're all soooo popular that people are forever just dropping by unexpectedly. I doubt it happens that often, especially if everyone is so crabby. You might value your time with your family, but I don't. I welcome a distraction from my husband and kids. They forever demanding time and attention from me. I value my personal time to myself and this family thing is very intrusive. I'm changing my whole opinion on the matter, and I now feel that I don't like anyone or anything that takes time away from me. Talking and interacting with others is so stressful and time-consuming! I would rather type anonymous notes to strangers on the internet (when I want to, not unexpectedly!)
Oh lallee, get off your high horse. We're asking for simple politeness, such as a phone call ahead of time, and respect for our privacy. I consider courtesy to be a part of love.
I'm not sure why you think not wanting unexpected guests makes us antisocial or crabby. If anything, your comments make you look so judgemental (at least to me) that I'm wondering why you're "soooo popular."
it's rude to show up unannounced. end of story.
I have to agree with Samantha Drab (as echo some others) on this one.
Holy Cow! I'm blown away that people don't think about their own cultural specificity here. I'm from a place where I was taught, if you were in the neighbourhood and didn't stop by that it was impolite. I'm now living in Toronto where, in general people don't just "pop by" for a cup of tea (aside from my expat friends).
While I fully appreciate that people work too hard and that people's downtime is precious, the article isn't advocating for people to drop everything and play host, neither does it necessitate rudeness in the response people take.
Yes, I fully agree that taking time to call someone before dropping by is preferred but even if someone happens to be in the neighbourhood and knocks on your door there are other options rather than quite passive-aggressively "porching" someone. (that said, I thought it was commonly understood that one doesn't even call before 10AM on weekends without a prearranged agreement, let alone visit.)
I have told friends that I don't have time for a visit now, have even told friends that I needed some time to decompress and be alone after a long or stressful day.
If someone is dropping by because they're in the neighbourhood, this answer isn't going to affect your relationship because they haven't strayed far from their course for the day, and you've been honest with them and yourself about your needs. I understand that this can seem flakey or selfish but I prefer my friendships honest and respectful and I think this helps meet both criteria.
Again, it could be the cultural specificity as most of my friends are queer people of colour, social workers, anarchists and artists.
:)
I'm sooooooooo popular because I'm cool and everyone wants to be my friend. I have more friends that I can handle! There is a waiting list for my friendship.
Helena's editor here. I wanted to quickly point out that Helena is giving surprise visit-haters an out with the call screening pointer.
Also, I'd like to offer my opinion. Call me a convert to the surprise visit. I have this friend - a mutual friend of Helena's and mine actually - who was King of the surprise visit. Incidentally, like Helena, this guy is British. Could be a cultural thing, as noted here. Anyway, this guy and his visits initially made me livid, because i'm typically scheduled to the second with chores and personal enrichment activities, as are all of you. But as I began actually answering the door and making time to SLOW down with this guy and hang out for an hour, I came to value these visits. They reminded me of the time spent with childhood friends, where you'd hang out and not do anything other than maybe make prank phone calls or eat stale tortilla chips while listening to Led Zeppelin records. Delicious pointlessness, priceless bonding, and yes, thumbing one's noes at productivity. One last word: I wear stained hoodies and my hair looks like a mangy Golden Retriever while I'm at home, but if your friends expect you to be stunning all the time, that's kind of weird, isn't it?
Bad, bad advice. Obviously this is a very personal preference, regarding which no one should be setting the rules for what is rude or not for anyone else.
I work at home too, and right now at nearly 1 in the afternoon, I'm still in my jammies and robe. If a friend (or anyone) calls me an hour ahead, then sure, I'll be happy for company. Otherwise, don't you DARE drop by unannounced - even my dear neighbor always calls before she comes by to borrow an onion. That is because she has good manners.
My home is my refuge. I'm not an introvert and I love company and to entertain, but that does not mean it's OK to just drop in on me. At least when I was married and his parents dropped by, I didn't have to deal with them, but now that it's just me and the cats? No. Way.
Haha. Well put. Most of my friends know to catch me before I get home from work or expect me to be in PJs or running clothes :-)
And your post makes me miss being a kid when the days seemed to last forever. It's a really great feeling when you can harness it as an adult. Maybe people should make time now and again to allow themselves to be derailed from their schedule. Even if it's just for 30 minutes. It's a nice thought.
I still don't think any of my friends will be popping by unannounced. But, I just might accept the next impromptu offer for lunch or coffee that comes my way!
I definitely agree that if you want to drop by unannounced, you should call first. But of course, that's not unannounced, now is it?
What's wrong with the world these days that you can't just show up at a friend's house without making a reservation? I wish people did it more often. Certainly if someone does it repeatedly and is not welcome that's one thing and you can feel free to tell that person to stop; but to do it occasionally should be no big deal. And by occasionally I mean once every year or two because, really, how often does any normal person drop in unexpectedly on someone? I like to be surprised once in a while.
I recall someone once saying about CB radios in the 70's and the early internet as being all communication but no information (or something to that effect). Perhaps it's that people spend a large chunk of time on the cell, texting, emailing and on the internet that they feel they've already spent too much time dealing with other people and need "alone time". It's kind of a shame because there's much to be enjoyed from an impromptu, personal visit that can't be matched on a text or even by phone. Your mileage may vary.
I, too, was taught that it is incredibly rude to NOT stop by - yes, unannounced - if you were in a friend's (or, even more, so a family member's) neighborhood. Of course, now that we have cell phones, we can usually call before hand.
This changed for me twice:
First when we lived in NYC. Everyone lived so close by that we were ALWAYS in the neighborhood.
Then, when we moved back to Long Island and had kids. People are a little more spread out, and the neighborhood children - and their parents - are pretty much in and out of the house, weather not withstanding (today, for example, one of my daughter's friends came in to use the bathroom, pet the cat and have a snack on her way home from school).
I hate to admit it, but despite the fact that I am the world's worst housekeeper, I kind of like it....
Hey, I'm with Samantha (and lessleyellen). Incidentally, I was also raised a little in England, but I would never have thought of *this* being a cultural difference between them and North Americans!
A surpise visit, much like a surprise phone call, is still to the receiver's discretion to enjoy. I love friends stopping by unannounced (sometimes not even the phone call alert!). It *does* show that we can be comfortable just being around each other. Heck, if my friends are going to judge me when they're the unannounced ones, I need to change my friends!!
I'm going to stand by my original statement that an unannounced visit is incredibly rude (an exception will follow). Also, I'm not lacking for friends and yes, lallee, my friends and family do love me.
It's terribly presumptuous to assume that the person you want to just pop in on is going to be so thrilled to see you that they'll want to drop everything to sit and chat a while. Whether they're busy or not, that's their personal sanctuary from the world and I believe you should approach it or enter it with tact and courtesy. That means calling first to make sure your visit is welcome.
If you're the type person who just loves those unannounced visitors, you can tell your polite friend who called, "Come on over anytime! No need to call first!"
If you can't stand the suprise intrusion, you can say, "I really appreciate you calling first." Then follow that up with a, "Sure I'd love a visit." or "Now isn't really a good time. Please give me a call when you're in the area again."
I don't see where my porching the in-laws was passive-aggressive. I had, obviously, been asleep. I wasn't going to invite them in. I asked them to call back later if they were in the area. I told them I was going back to sleep.
Ah, the exception!
If you've been told to "Come on over anytime! No need to call first!" then the door is open (ha!) to those unannounced visits.
I think I'll not leave my house anymore.
If you find yourself having to invite yourself, chances are you're a bad guest. Perhaps you should ask your unwilling hosts why you're not foten/ever invited into their homes. And maybe ask how they really feel about your intrusions. The answer may surprise you (if they're an honest friend).
Well, the votes are in, and some people think that drop-ins are tatamount to an axe murder, and others relish or even crave drop-ins.
I guess it would behoove a person to find out at some point ahead of time how the person they may one day drop in on feels about it. That shouldn't be such a big old deal, right?
For the record, if you come to my door unannounced, you had better be a UPS delivery guy with a box full of neat stuff.
I just never answer the door - anybody that needs to contact me has my number - parcels are delivered to work or the nearest FedEx/UPS station. otherwise it's solicitors or the occasional itinerant.
I believe Miss Manners would agree the perceptions of drop-ins should not be a worry - invited and fecal matter smeared on the wallpaper, that would indeed be off-putting.
slippers and strewn newspapers - take it or leave it.
there are types out there that enjoy a spot-inspection. and 7 AM??? WTF? nothing starts before 9 on a Saturday and only if a friend's kid is under the roof (kiddo does hve to eat)
Wow this got a lot of response!
My take is that visits with 15-20 min 'warning' are great, as long as the visitor is prepared not to be a 'guest' but just to go along with whatever's going on at the time. If 'what's going on' is that my kid is asking for some Mama time, then the visitor needs to understand that. I might also ask for the reverse--a few minutes to, say finish the dishes or the like--while someone else plays with Lego or reads. Having someone pop in and jumping in like that sounds great. Having someone pop in and expect coffee, complete with baked goods, does not.
As for time of day--7 a.m. Sat is ridiculously uncivilized! I'd say 10 on a weekend is the earliest.
As a single mom, I'd say what's most important to me is that people 'get' that my son and me are a unit--can't have one without the other. If we're getting ready for a walk (or if the place is too messy to pick up that fast), I'll suggest you meet us at the playground, or ring and we'll come down. I also appreciate fairly accurate time estimates--don't get there while we're still rushing to pick up, but DON'T have us race around like idiots and then spend the next 10 min arguing re: whether we can have a glass of juice (yes, I use stallling tactics, like setting the table for a glass of juice with the friend, etc, but if we wait too long it turns ugly).
I'm definitely the type who does not like surprise drop-ins and I typically make that pretty clear. In the evenings I like to change into my PJs and lounge around, so it's not exactly the best situation for drop-in guests. However, if someone wants to drop by within 30 minutes to an hour, I can usually make myself presentable, do some tidying up, and then I'm absolutely fine. A lot of my friends aren't huge planners so I am not going to get a whole lot of notice regardless, but that 30-60 minutes can make a huge difference.
I don't think this is an England-America divide, or North-South, or anything like that. If anything, it's an urban-rural divide, with suburbs falling someone between the two, depending on the character of the suburb. It's also obviously a matter of individual preference. But, being from suburban Connecticut, and not that odd part that's in commuting distance to New York, the people I know from growing up would be offended if I was in their area and didn't drop by. The attitude in the households I was familiar with as a child was always that when you make dinner, make enough so that you will be able to feed an unexpected guest, and always have wine and beer to offer to surprise visitors. But, then again, people also didn't tend to have every minute of their time planned out, or feel they were so busy with work that they needed private time to recover. It's just a different lifestyle. Neither one is wrong or right. Then again, I never did understand how the fast paced city folk ever did enjoy life with such uptight ways.
it's interesting how many of the surprise-visit-haters are concerned w/ the state of their house and/or appearance. I'm having a hard time imagining anyone just dropping by unless they were a close friend or family member, in which case, why would I care how i look?
I was SHOCKED at the response by the majority here. Not saying it's not valid or rude or anything...just really, really surprised.
I agree with Danieljdwyer - I think this is a city vs. suburb/country thing. I grew up in the latter and now live in the former. It was expected and welcomed for folks to stop by unannounced when I lived outside of the city. But when you live in the city you are surrounded by people and the noise of people 24/7 and I think there is a different need to shut one self in and just breath for a few minutes when you get home, without the ever present din of humanity. That said - I am the eternal hostess - and LOVE when my friends stop by unannounced. They can even ring the bell; no call necessary (unless it's late at night). We had better be good friends though...and if we're not, I'm just as happy to say I'm in the middle of something right now and not feel the need to elaborate. I think everyone needs to set their own boundaries here and I strongly feel that the general assumption should be to not stop by unannounced until you are close enough to know whether that works for a friend or not.
My problem with Miss Manners' take on this issue is that her tone of writing makes it seem like you are rude if you don't take up this practice. While I don't condemn it, it's not for everyone, and people should know their friends limits.
Yowzers - I am amazed that the notion that's it's OK for a friend to call up and say, "hey, "I'm in the 'hood, would love to see you" gets so many people so angry!
If you read the actual article, you will see that Helena isn't saying that you have to say yes to such an invitation. She's just saying, it's okay to get spontaneous sometimes when two people feel like hanging out together. if you're the type who hates surprise visits, well, good on you. Say a friend calls up with such a suggestion, all you have to do is decline politely, and I'm sure they'll take the hint and call up a different, more spontaneous friend next time.
When I lived in New York, I adored it when friends would ring my doorbell on a random weekend afternoon and we'd go grab brunch or take a walk or go shopping. I'd leave the bed unmade, the laundry undone and bop around the city with a marvelous feeling of seizing the day. But that's just me - I get how it could feel intrusive to another person. But I also appreciate Helena pointing out that it's not inherently rude to make such a call.
I'd just point out that I think it's rude for someone to be offended by a spontaneous invitation to hang out - all you have do is say, "Thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I'm busy right now." Is that so hard?
Yowzers - I am amazed that the notion that's it's OK for a friend to call up and say, "hey, "I'm in the 'hood, would love to see you" gets so many people so angry!
If you read the actual article, you will see that Helena isn't saying that you have to say yes to such an invitation. She's just saying, it's okay to get spontaneous sometimes when two people feel like hanging out together. if you're the type who hates surprise visits, well, good on you. Say a friend calls up with such a suggestion, all you have to do is decline politely, and I'm sure they'll take the hint and call up a different, more spontaneous friend next time.
When I lived in New York, I adored it when friends would ring my doorbell on a random weekend afternoon and we'd go grab brunch or take a walk or go shopping. I'd leave the bed unmade, the laundry undone and bop around the city with a marvelous feeling of seizing the day. But that's just me - I get how it could feel intrusive to another person. But I also appreciate Helena pointing out that it's not inherently rude to make such a call.
I'd just point out that I think it's rude for someone to be offended by a spontaneous invitation to hang out - all you have do is say, "Thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I'm busy right now." Is that so hard?
I think the 'please drop by' people are missing a point that a lot of the 'please don't drop by' posters are making -- at least the later posters.
Most of us are saying, hey, if you're in the neighborhood, call FIRST, give us a few minutes or a chance to say no. We're not hating all visitors and refusing entry at all costs. It's just polite to pick up you cell phone and call.
Because, I'm sorry, I don't live a perfect life and there's a good chance that my toddler has stripped off his clothes and running around naked with the play guitar he got for X-mas -- cause that's what he's been doing for the past 2 weeks as soon as we enter the house.
I live in the country with a few acres separating my house from my neighbors', and a few miles outside the nearest small town. Perhaps because of our location, friends and family (especially family) will "swing by" on their way from one town to another. Typically this is not a problem, but my husband and I gave one friend a complete shock when we were otherwise engaged during her drop-in. She calls now...
I have to admit that while I entertain these visits and never feel stressed that I haven't been able to properly prepare or something, they do annoy me at times. Sometimes I'm in the middle of something that's not easy to drop, like washing my dog, peeling old wallpaper down, or making cheese. I guess it's a commentary on our lives that we all seem to work so much that what little free time we have is so precious that we are bothered by interruptions...but so be it. Calling in advance is helpful - I have a few folks who do this - but I usually answer the phone when someone calls, and it's hard to turn down a "I'm in the 'hood, wanna catch up?", even if I am busy. And then there's my mother, who comes by even if I don't answer...
In response to Originalfig, I don't think most of us are at all offended by someone who calls to say they are in the neighborhood, but the one who shows up at the door unannounced. Now why there should be a difference between telling someone over the phone, "I'm sorry, now is not a good time for me" as opposed to telling them to their face, but it just is.
Call me, invite me out to coffee, give me the chance to say,.. in in the middle of washing diapers, but please just come on over (or not).
It is a sorry state of affairs indeed (NYC excepted, of course, since that city is a different universe in itself) - when a friendly hello is taken as an invasion of privacy. If its a friend (and it does not have to be extremely close), i was brought up to at least offer a cup of tea and some cookies. Even if as the new yorker says [and i am paraphrasing] "its a second-thought kind of thing to use your bathroom" - there ARE public bathrooms available and the host has to have her head in the wrong place to be arrogant about it. What does it cost to be friendly and courteous and nice? I know, I know - kindness is noth the "new york thing" but hopefully it is an american thing. Personally, i have had people i don't like knocking on my door - in those cases, i just step out and talk with them - making it pretty clear that they are not welcome in -but then these are one in several thousand! Harden not your hearts....
I'm definitely in the "please don't drop by" crowd. Like some of the others, I work from home and my writing takes a great deal of concentration and planning. Being home is definitely not the same thing as being off work!
For those who like the spontaneity of surprise visits, I would suggest calling to invite your friend out, instead of asking to be invited in. "Hey, I'm in the neighborhood, want to go get a cup of coffee?" "Care to go for a walk?" or "May I take you to lunch?" leaves space for your friend to say, "Oh, why don't you just come over?" without implying that you expect them to entertain you.
KaimukiMan - I hear you - and I agree about telling someone face to face vs over the phone. If I did not want a surprise visitor, I would definitely prefer to tell someone over the phone than in person....
Wow Helena, this post and the one about containers are bringing out the old school in me. Back in the day, people dropped in on each other all the time, and it was viewed as a welcome distraction and a pleasure to have visitors. Good point about the kids. My mom was a dropper inner and also welcomed drop ins but how I hated it as a kid to be taken to a house decorated like a museum and told to sit still. Comic books were my salvation! My only complaint is people who love to drop in on you, but hate being dropped in on. But different strokes for different folks I guess. The not at meal times is a very good idea as well. I just find in life I have more fun if I'm flexible so I even let the people who hate it when you drop in on them drop in on me. Keeps me from just staring at a screen all the time when I'm home. Darn this addicting chowhound site. :)
I'm beginning to think Helena likes to be provocative in order to get responses.
That in and of itself is rude. Why don't you read an etiquette book or two and learn something?
Better yet, hire me to write this column.
I do tend to wonder from time to time (like once a week) what Helena's qualifications are. They often appear to be slim to none. And she is not very good at self evaluation. She apparently believes that the only bad advice she gave last year was about elbows on the table, bringing home food to work, and that you could keep people's containers.
Apparently she still believes that theft of glassware from restaurants and bars is still OK. Come to think of it, why do I even bother to read the column.
I love spending time with friends and family but I don't like recieving surprise visits and I don't like making them. Spontaneous get togethers and surprise visits are totally different things.
I think that it's insulting whenother people fail to make the effort to plan get togethers. And! if someone's making the effort, it's because they want to see you. You need to reciprocate.
Amen, brother.
Now that KaimukiMan brought it up, what are Helena's qualifications to be an etiquette columnist? She apparently tolerates theft (beer glasses) and encourages lying (it's OK to put ingredients in a dish after agreeing not to) and couldn't figure out you should ask permission before you pick fruit from another person's property - she acutally had to ask an "expert" for advice on that one. Does she have any formal education or training in the food or hotel/restaurant industry? Please, Helena's editor, how about answering this with some specifics?
sebbeit, I would hope none of us have friends so uptight that they couldn't enjoy your toddler playing in the adorable (and extremely age-appropirate) way you describe.
I think that there are a few different factors in this, ie. personal preference, culture or locale and attitude of guest. Some of us are extroverts and some are introverts (I am an introvert and my personal space is rather sacred to me.) So, what is a compliment to some is not a compliment to others. As someone already said, if you are a friend or relative, you know what will make someone happy. I know which of my friends would prefer a little warning and which I could just drop by on.
Also, some cultures see things one way, and some see them another and the United States is an enormous melting pot of these so, again, you just have to know where your host stands on this. Just because you don’t want people dropping by on you does not mean you are cold and inhospitable. There are other ways of showing affection and support to others than opening your home to them.
There is also the question of WHY you are dropping in on someone. If you honestly want to see your friend or relative, that is a wonderful thing. If that is the reason though, you had better be prepared to have them socialize while multi-tasking or to help them with whatever they are doing, or to overlook the pile of laundry they were sorting when you appeared on their doorstep. And if you call ahead, you had better be prepared to hear “no.” We all want people to see us at our best – if someone were coming to visit, I would want enough notice to get the walk cleared of snow and have something hot ready perhaps, in addition to being presentable – unless you are prepared to overlook your friend or relative at their WORST and not be embarrassed about it, you should not visit!
Hmm. According to cornfusion, "If its a friend (and it does not have to be extremely close), i was brought up to at least offer a cup of tea and some cookies."
So was I. Sure helps to be awake for it.
"Even if as the new yorker says [and i am paraphrasing] 'its a second-thought kind of thing to use your bathroom' - there ARE public bathrooms available"
You haven't spent a lot of time in NY, have you? Also, there ARE telephones available, which can be used before doorbells.
" and the host has to have her head in the wrong place to be arrogant about it. "
First off, I'm not originally from NY, whatever the location of my head now. I lived in a smaller city before coming here & every night -- no exaggeration -- my neighbors dropped in to see what I was having for dinner & stayed to share it. They didn't know how to cook, & my partner & I liked the company. (No leftover problems, either.) I had the time -- I didn't have a fulltime job. Sometimes they had us over for drinks or I cooked in their kitchens. That was fun.
But I work nights now -- sometimes very long ones. My husband works days. We see each other (awake) only on weekends. And I have found, after years in NY, that what I said in my original post stands -- when people turn up unexpectedly here, it's not because they want to see me or DH, but because they have, basically, run out of other entertainment. If they are such good friends that they know my home address, they know my work schedule too. Presumably cornfusion wouldn't be too pleased about drop-ins at 4 a.m. -- that's the equivalent. Some people don't see any reason to take that into account (& it's not just work schedules, from some of these other posts, that get ignored in favor of instant gratification of unexpected visitors).
These are never close friends, I should add, just those with some sort of bizarre sense of entitlement. I've known people to call to say they were nearby & on their way over, wake me up, get told that I was sleeping & really couldn't get up right then, & come lean on the doorbell for a few minutes until I answered, "because we thought you weren't really asleep." And they still thought I would welcome them in, mind you.
Two of my closest friends have keys to my apartment. They are welcome anytime & if I woke up to find them on the sofa watching TV, I'd be delighted. Funny thing, though -- they wouldn't dream of coming over unannounced.
"What does it cost to be friendly and courteous and nice?"
To people who are friendly & courteous & nice enough to show some respect & telephone in advance, not a thing -- in fact, it's a pleasure.
One morning thirty-five years ago, a friend just "showed up" at my NYC apartment, rousing me from a sound sleep. It so angered me that I wouldn't let her in the door. For fifteen minutes she stood in the hall, pleading and weeping, before finally giving up and going home.
If it happened today, I might -- if I were feeling charitable -- agree to meet her at the corner coffee shop in 30 minutes. But I would still be infuriated by her lack of consideration.
I can't imagine showing up on someone's doorstep unannounced. It's just one of those things that's totally beyond me.
I disagree with Ms. Echlin's comment that it is a "compliment" when someone drops by unannounced, that "screening a call" is an appropriate way to deal with this potential siutation.
My opinion is that it is appropriate to either 1.) be invited, or 2.) if you intend to drop someone an unscheduled visit- to call in advance (well in advance, not five minutes before). It is the polite thing to do, as is writing a subsequent thank you note to one's host when you attend an event. I believe that these practices are respectful, and clearly shows that you value and appreciate your hosts' time equal to your own.
Yes, as KDS suggests, it's much nicer to call up your friend and invite them out if you're nearby. Then they have the chance to invite you over if they feel like it, and -crucially- it lets them off the hook of disinviting you if they don't care to have guests right then.
Just thought I'd point out that the people who got porched weren't friends - they were RELATIVES. Nuff. said. Much more likely than friends to just barge in because they're, you know, family.
The lack of logic in the article - not to mention the disrespect and intolerance shown in some of the previous posts - is really very depressing.
The author acts as if the title of the article is a "yes" or "no" question. It's not. There is no possible answer to the title question, except, "It Depends..."
The point is not if it's acceptable or polite to drop by unannounced. The point is simple, childishly easy, Basic Courtesy, meaning ASK your friend or family member what they prefer BEFORE you show up at the door. Never assume you know what another person prefers...this applies to everything in life, not just visitors.
I have some friends who like people dropping in, and some who hate it, but I didn't just guess which were which. Human beings are not guinea pigs. They are capable of speech and comprehension. I don't have to treat them like experiments, i.e., show up at the door unexpectedly and see how they react. I can actually say to them, "So, if I happen to be in your neighborhood and would like to drop by, should I just pop in and surprise you, or would you rather I call first?"
Dropping by in and of itself is not always rude. It's also not always welcome. What's rude - and always has been rude, and always will be rude - is being thoughtless, assuming something will be OK just because it's what you want.
And what's even ruder is chastising people for not feeling the same way you do. There is nothing wrong with people who enjoy surprise visits. There is nothing wrong with people who despise unannounced guests. Being different is not antisocial or impolite, or virtuous or praiseworthy. Different people have different needs and desires. Different people have different jobs, habits, pressures, personalities, medical problems, sex lives, pets, biorhythms and eating habits.
My friends and family know to call before dropping by. They don't consider that a problem, even the ones who themselves enjoy unexpected visits.
However, no one seems to acknowledge both types may have some rules and/or exceptions. My closest friends, for example, know if they need to see me right away, if they're in trouble, if they're upset, if they have to have a hug and a cookie or a place to escape to, I'll always welcome them in if humanly possible, advance notice or not, no matter what I'm doing.
Even those who enjoy drop-ins may prefer visitors not come by before or after a certain time. They may (as one of my friends does) have a sign on the front door indicating whether they are "In" or "Out." On the other hand friend who hates drop-ins makes an exception every Sunday afternoon from noon to 6:00 pm, and people she knows wander in and out at random, play cards or games, watch movies, talk, whatever they feel like, and help themselves to available drinks and snacks.
And one couple jokingly uses the old college roommate signal of a tie on the doorknob. (Hey, it's a real drag when you're in the middle of fantastic sex and someone rings the doorbell or knocks, especially if they do so multiple times. They know you're home, the cars are there, the lights are on, the dog is waiting patiently to be let back in so he can jump on the bed. You don't want to go to the door for reasons that should be obvious. And sure, you can wait them out. They have to go away eventually. But it breaks the mood rather badly. Plus you know a really thoughtless visitor will ask you later why you didn't come to the door. Believe it or not, despite Jerry Springer and his ilk, most people don't want to share their intimate interactions.)
The author of this article shows clearly she doesn't know the difference between good manners and her own personal preferences. Until she does, CNET and CHOW should prohibit her from writing on the subject.
Cheers,
cordwainer
"And what's even ruder is chastising people for not feeling the same way you do."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wow cordwainer, you made a number of good pts. but chastising the author of this piece to the point of calling out her boss, when she simply doesn't feel the way you do...kinda deludes your message.