[-]I'm about to have #2 and my MIL has just sent me a package of onsies and socks -they are truly the flimsy kind that I hate. I've sent her links to clothing (on sale but good quality) and she hasn't taken the hint -what would you do?
24 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]use them when she comes over and get what you like for all the other times. She probably is just interested in getting something.
[ Reply | Options ]seriously? get over yourself. any reason you can't use what you had from #1? and besides, you know as well as we do that onesies get puked on, pooped in, and other stuff so whats the big deal.
[ Reply | Options ]OP here and I can't because I gave away the stuff and the little i did save was for the opposite sex. The big deal is that the stuff she gave me lasts through a few washes and I don't like having my child in dirty clothes so i prefer to get higher quality to withstand all the washing
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And why do you expect your MIL to buy the things for YOUR baby that you want? I want my mother and my DH's mother to buy things for our new baby and I've certainly been eyeballing that bugaboo stroller, but they are under no obligation to buy anything for my baby. I'm the one who fucked DH and got pregnant not them. If I get any gift from my MIL or mother whether it's a flimsy t-shirt or a gilded crib, I'm grateful.
[ Reply | Options ]wow. i'm not asking for a bugaboo. in fact i'm not asking for shitty stuff either so why would she bother getting me shitty stuff? I'm glad your happy with whatever but I'd rather not get crap in the first place
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I agree. I just don't understand people who turn their noses up at gifts because they are not up to their standards.
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Then don't accept the gift. You should be woman enough to say to your MIL the gift is not up to your standards and you are returning the items to her. But instead you bad mouth your MIL on UB and call her gifts crap because you have a superiority complex. You don't have to accept gifts. You can refuse them.
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Well you should tell your MIL you think her gifts are crap rather than complaining on UB. You sound incredibly ungrateful. Are you privy to your in-laws income? How are they fairing in this bad economic climate? Have you even asked? Did it ever occur to you that maybe she thought the t-shirt were cute and didn't realize the quality? Did it ever occur to you that maybe she's planning on purchasing a big ticket get in the future?
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She's just trying to be thoughtful and sending you some basics. Funny, I had the opposite problem with MIL, she kept buying very expensive stuff - I disliked the gesture because she tries to control how her grandchildren appear in public. She even tried to buy ME some clothes a few years back. I would much rather have your MIL who doesn't give her grandchildren grief about brushing their hair or wearing nicer shoes.
[ Reply | Options ]OP here and clearly it seems like all of you are totally ok with your MILs sending you crap gifts as their gifts for your baby. I on the other hand find it offensive that she sends this kind of crap when she gives better stuff to her friends grandchildren.
[ Reply | Options ]Well you didn't say that in your original post. And a gift is a gift is a gift. It's none of your business what she gives her friend's grandchildren. If you have problem then speak to her about it instead of sending passive-aggressive links. Perhaps she simply doesn't like you and if that is the case you have bigger issues with your MIL than a few cheap onesies.
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[-]MD mom responding to the lady who is overdue and fighting with her MD over being induced: Please understand that MDs are not there simply to do whatever you want. We have taken an oath to do no harm to the extent that is possible in any given situation. Your OB has determined that inducing is a better risk than waiting in your case. He knows his limits in helping you. He does not want to be your patsy or tool. He has an idea of the consequences and knows what HE feels comfortable with. He is a professional and another human. He does not want to take the risks you want to take. You are free to go to another MD who is more comfortable with the risks you are favoring. But you cannot expect a dostor to take a course of action that he ...
72 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]Oh, BS! It's just looking at his own best interest, not the mother or child. The mother is willing to do daily monitoring and induce if medically necessary. Inducing based on the calendar is something done to appease med mal defense lawyers.
[ Reply | Options ]of course, he is looking after his best interest. Because I guarantee you that if anything goes wrong, whether it is his fault or not, he and the hospital will be sued.
[ Reply | Options ]unless you have ever been in this situation, you have no idea what you are talking about. It is VERY hard to watch someone ask you to be responsible for them, but then tie your hands in delivering what you feel is appropriate care. As a physician, I am not obligated to treat someone who is asking me to do something I do not agree with. I will refer out. Again, lawsuits are an added stress in the job, but far worse is the being asked to sit by and watch while a patient runs their own bad care.
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ITA with you. If people don't like that, then they should use a midwife. That said, when I was in labor, my OB was pushing to break my water and I pushed back (and was glad that I did). Point is simply that sometimes OBs make suggestions or push things for reasons that have nothing to do with you or the baby. That's when I think it's totally fair to be assertive.
[ Reply | Options ]Of course, you should push back for small things like this. But that OP is overdue and wants to wait. the OB has likely seen this scenario play out badly (we all have). The only thing worse than delivering a baby who doesn't make it, is feeling like it could have been prevented if only you had acted on your best judgement and not just on the patient's fears, need to be in control, or whatever.
[ Reply | Options ]Absolutely. My own example is not at all the same. I do think though that a lot of times, patients want to have more of a dialogue with their doctor, before simply being dictated to. Maybe that's part of that OP's frustration with her current OB.
[ Reply | Options ]Her OB would do better to explain his postion, as well as HIS feelings about being responsible for a course of action he is not choosing based on his experience and education. It is why I am posting it here. perhaps, that op will see that its not just up to her. of course it is up to her to opt out of his care, but it is not up to her to dictate to him a course of action he feels is unsafe, and then hold him responsible for it. she needs to see that. she really feels entitled to run the show, make him do something he does not feel is right and then hold him responsible for the whole mess if it ends badly. sorry, but docs aren't just tools.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: true, but OBs used to tell women that they could only have a 2nd c-section if they had one. Some still do. Does that mean that an OB that believes in VBACs for some women is endangering their babies? There has to be some scientific evidence and many OBs don't use that, just a "feeling" that it's better to induce at Day 7 for each and every woman regardless of circumstances. Those OBs should be told to practice differently, because they are lazy and only want to make the easy decision instead of having to think.
[ Reply | Options ]no, some obs are not comfortable and don't feel it is a risk they want to take. you call it lazy, I call it knowing my limits. If you want someone who is comfortable with more risk, go elsewhere. but don't get into power struggles with a doctor who does not feel comfortable with certain procedures.
[ Reply | Options ]Fine, but the risks should be based on real evidence, not "feelings", and the problem with the practice of OB medicine is that it has been based on "feeling" and "traditions" and not medical science. When you say you know your limits, are you saying that a better OB could wait until Day 10 to induce but you aren't a good enough OB to wait? If there is absolutely no scientific evidence that inducing on Day 7 versus Day 10 or Day 14 (with daily monitoring) makes a difference, what is the risk you are afraid of?
[ Reply | Options ]sometimes the evidence is unclear, or could go either way. some doctors just do not feel comfortable with the risk. what is so hard to uderstand? you try taking people's lives in your hands, and then tell me where you stand on these issues.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: I think if the evidence is unclear and could go either way, it's your obligation as a physician to present both options, and the associated risks, to your patient and help them decide which to chose. Not to dictate their choice to them. I understand that the current climate vis a vis malpractice makes that incredibly difficult to do in practice, but the fact that you don't even acknowledge that as a goal or an ideal is disturbing.
[ Reply | Options ]who said that the MD should not discuss options and associated risks? of course they should, but there are many OBs for eg., who will not do a vbac, or go beyond 41 weeks or whatever, because in their judgement, it is too risky. you are paying for their medical judgement. if you don't like it, get a 2nd opinion. I don't see the big deal.
[ Reply | Options ]the patient has not discussed everything that has transpired. let's just imagine the doctor told her why he thought it was risky to wait, and what those risks are. let's assume she didn't like that opinion, and came in with all kinds of internet searches to refute his opinion. I imagine the OB felt annoyed with the patient. who wouldn't? he is offering her his best opinion, and she is trying to show him he is wrong. Its one thing to be informed. its another to fight those in whose care you have put yourself. she is a classic btw.
[ Reply | Options ]OP from the other post here... I guess I'll bite and respond. If what you describe is a classic, then I'm not it. I'm not trying to prove my OB wrong. What happened was that he never discussed anything with me -- not the risks, not the alternatives, not the reasons he thinks this is the way to go. He just announced his plan. When the next day I called up to express my reservations, he waived me off saying I am just having cold feet. And basically said either his way or the highway. Of course this is his prerogative, but I don't have to like it. And I don't think it's fair than when I do go in to the hospital in 2 days to be induced, I will expected to sign "informed consent" forms, when my doctor never discussed risks or other options with ...
[ Reply | Options ]then schedule an appt with him saying you are unclear about the procedure and its risks. go in and talk, and ask specific questions you have. Say perhaps you are a bit anxous, but that going through labor & delivery is a big deal to you and you are scared. try to elicit his sympathy/empathy. if you come at it from that perspective, he is likely to want to help you. bringing up all the data you have read about that counters his position is getting you nowhere, as he is now on the defensive.
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I really sympathize with OB's and all the liability they are burdened with. They do take precautions, because they are forced to. I'm really not surprised that dr's are leaving the field and practicing elsewhere. Signed...the daughter of two doctors, one of which has a second career as a medical malpractice attorney.
[ Reply | Options ]Here, here. And that's why it's so important to get a doctor you trust. That way when they make a decision you don't like, you at least know you're both working from the same set of goals, and that the doctor knowing how you feel is still making the decision based on what's best for you and/or baby.
[ Reply | Options ]OP, I'm also sympathetic to drs, and have a few in the family. But the problem is that OBs have a tradition of acting in a way that is sometimes medically unnecessary. OBs regularly give pitocin to "speed" labor when there is no good reason medically to do this. Do you deny that this is the case? Not all do, but many do. Same thing with episiotomies. Most other medical specialties do NOT practice medicine in this way, believe me.
[ Reply | Options ]things like this should be discussed in advance. many doctors have opinions about these things, but for the less dire issues, most will be flexible. for bigger issues, they will say whether they are able to stay the course. No one can force that patient to induce, but the doctor can refer her elsewhere. If he cannot, he will document up the wazoo that she refused, and he will likely feel like he is being held hostage, which he is. You cannot expect him to be thrilled with patients like this OP. If all goes well, they will part ways in the end. the patient is not happy with the md, and vice versa. makes sense.
[ Reply | Options ]OR above -- I agree and in the other post I told the story of my OB insisting on breaking my water while the OB nurses shook their heads behind him because it was so unnecessary. I had discussed ad nauseum my birth plan, but specifically breaking water didn't come up. I ended up going along with the OB for the reasons you say (I felt held hostage by him, in fact), but didn't use him again. I told the OP she probably needs to just accept the induction (but try to negotiate), but definitely warn everyone about the OB and not use him next time.
[ Reply | Options ]that is ridiculous. warn everyone about what? the OB does not feel, in his judgement, that it is worth the risk to wait. patient may not like that assessment, but I am sure he feels best about that course. he is doing nothing wrong. just because he has a patient who is either in denial or has a higher propensity for risk, does not make him a bad doctor.
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NP here. My feeling is that when all is said and done the only thing that will matter is a healthy baby and mother. Period. I was in exactly same situation as OP - 5 days overdue. Got induced, ended up having a c-section. But trust me, seven months later, it no longer matters how he was delivered, the only thing that matters is that he's healthy and happy.
[ Reply | Options ]Do you agree, OP, that an OB who says "I induce on Day 7 after due date" regardless of circumstances is acting in a correct manner? Because that is fairly common with some OBs (not all) and it's NOT good practice of medicine and NOT looking at the patient as a whole, but just following some rule. An MD that practices like that isn't really a very good MD, is he? If there is a medically necessary reason, he should tell his patient, and just saying "on Day 7 after due date it is now necessary."
[ Reply | Options ]But statistically, the chances of serious complications go way up after day 7. The placenta starts to degrade, etc. I can't imagine the guilt both doctor and patient would feel if they went from healthy baby one day to a stillbirth the next. Once the baby is ready, the safest place for it is outside.
[ Reply | Options ]I am interested in a citation for your assertion that chances of complications go way up after day 7 if patient is monitored, versus chances of complications for being INDUCED on day 7. I know someone who went to day 14 or longer with 2 natural births. In fact, she would have liked to be induced, but OB didn't believe in induction for no reason that early. Was that OB practicing risky medicine? I doubt it very much, it's just that other OBs are too lazy to research the facts, and this is easier.
[ Reply | Options ]Lazy? Can you imagine the emotional toll of having to deliver a dead baby, not to mention the legal liability? People who want to do this stuff should have to sign a waiver saying they won't sue.
[ Reply | Options ]Look, most OBs don't want to deliver a dead baby. Why are some willing to wait? Do you think they care less about their patients? Do you think they are just stupid doctors? No, it's because there is actually no evidence that practicing medicine that way is better. and frankly, I would have no objection to an OB having a patient sign a waiver that said OB recommends induction and informed patient of risks and she decided to wait to induce.
[ Reply | Options ]I think they have a different threshhold for risk. That's why it's important to be on the same page as your OB and discuss these issues early on, not at your due date.
[ Reply | Options ]I agree, but having "a different threshhold for risk" is why the practice of OB medicine is so off. It's like saying it's good practice for your pediatrician to prescribe antibiotics anytime your kid has a fever because his threshhold for risk is less and maybe your kid really DOES need antibiotics and he doesn't want to take a chance. Some peds really do practice like this, but let's call it what it is -- bad medicine -- and not pretend it's okay for a ped. to practice because he doesn't "feel" good tolerating the risk that a kid will have something that needs antibiotics.
[ Reply | Options ]Would you say the same about law or business? In all of these areas, you need to find a professional whose judgment you trust, and whose appetite for risk accords with yours.
[ Reply | Options ]Of course, but let's be honest here, OBs are the only profession that doesn't seem to care about science. I love the statement "it's an art, not science". I guess that means that even if every study out there shows that women who get episiotomies when not medically necessary tear FAR WORSE than those who just tear naturally. But if an OB "feels" episiotomies are just "less risky", we should say that is acceptable. Can you name me another medical specialty that practices according to "feelings" despite scientific evidence to the contrary.
[ Reply | Options ]you really don't get it. the studies are often mixed or haven't been done adequately. most hospitals/ob depts review the literature on these things and develop guidelines. Some OBs will not do the higher risk stuff. It is their option. You want to take the chance with your baby, find someone with a strong stomach for disaster.
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I'm a lawyer, and I consider it my job to help my clients UNDERSTAND the risks they face, but I don't consider it my job to impose my judgment for theirs. I may be more or less strong in my opinions about what the client ought to do, but in the end it's the client's decision what risk they are or aren't willing to accept. But then, I'm much less likely than an OB to be second-guessed or sued when the client's decision doesn't turn out the right way, regardless or whether or not the advice I gave is sound.
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np: this is so interesting because I had really wanted to be induced if i went past due date (i was so tired of being pg) and OB said that she did not induce prior to 41 weeks if patient is both dilated and effaced because if the body isn't ready, then it's less likely induction will work and far greater chance of a C-section. unless of course there's another medical reason. my OB is on the younger side, so definitely up on current practices and is in a hospital based practice so she is not going to be taking risks that hospital is not ok with. fwiw, no episiotomies either.
[ Reply | Options ]OR: Thank you -- that's my point exactly. And the reason so many OBs get away with practicing poor medicine is that many women just don't care. Until more women insist on better standards, you will get all these silly practices because OBs "feelings" are such, when scientific evidence shows that the OB is wrong. No other medical specialty gets away with this, but OBs do.
[ Reply | Options ]I would say that it is still about risk. many obs will not induce with a first baby until 41 weeks because the risk of problems is 50% with a 1st baby where the mother is not dilated/effaced, etc. But if the woman is later than that, and refusing the induction, the risks go up even higher. that Op's MD was correct in telling her he wasn't happy with her position since she is risking her baby's life. she sounds like an idiot who is lokking for power struggles, not medical care.
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Oh, that's such total and complete BS. But a convenient justification for thinking you have the right to play god and not treat your patients like adult human beings.
[ Reply | Options ]As adult human beings, they are entitled to seek care elsewhere. they are not entitled to make me risk killing a baby because they are in denial about the risks. buh bye!
[ Reply | Options ]You sound incredibly arrogant and I have to think that you can't be a very good doctor, because you seem to have very little respect for your patients and absolutely no understanding of the role that judgment and uncertainty plays in what you do. Not everyone that disagrees with you wants to kill their baby or is "in denial" - they're looking at the same set of risks are, but evaluating them in a different way.
[ Reply | Options ]I am a great doctor, am highly sought out, and often called upon to give 2d opinions. I am not arrogant, and do my best to inform my patiets to the extent that data exists. I completely respect how patients feel, but sometimes patients come in asking for something I know I don't want to do. I tell them upfront, and do not get into power struggles. I tell them why I am uncomfortable. I back my choice with data. That is all anyone can ask from their doctor. I am not god, but i am not there to hand out the wrong medicine or put myself in a position to do harm. patients are free to choose other physicians. there are all kinds out there.
[ Reply | Options ]np: but sometimes patients are in denial or are arrogant and entitled. most doctors can smell someone like this a mile away, and try to refer them elsewhere. then the patient gets upset because no one wants to treat them.
[ Reply | Options ]Another MD mom here: ITA! Usually these patients come in with a laundry list of things they want, and talking about how they have received terrible care from so many other providers. It is very hard not to want to turn and run out of the room. You try your best, but some patients really are impossible, and you know that no matter what you do, you will join the ranks of doctors who have "screwed them" in one way or another.
[ Reply | Options ]But isn't that part of job? As an MD you don't just get to doctor the "good patients". This board will jump all over a teacher who says I don't like PITA parents or the PITA kids in my classroom. But either way bad patients, bad parents, bad kids come with job. Just because a patient might be or is an ass hole does not give a doctor the right to scare the holy shit out of them or to dismiss their gazillionth concern. If you are doctor who is dismissive and bullies patients I think it's time to change professions or go into research.
[ Reply | Options ]I am not a bully, but you have no idea what kind of nasty people are out there. Frank sociopaths sometimes. I am always nice, courteous and professional. I try to see the fear or other things that motivate them. But sometimes a person is just an ahole. and the consequences for me are just not worth it. perhaps another doctor would be a better fit for them. unfortunately for the really mean ones, no doctor is a good fit after awhile and their healthcare suffers. as for PITA kids...well, they are kids. they may be annoying, but the threat is a whole other level when dealing with crazy, litigious sociopath adults.
[ Reply | Options ]But from what I read of OPs posts, she didn't come off as a sociopath and I take issue with dismissing her concerns as being hormonal. Talk about some sexists bull-shit right there, but that's for another posts. Basically you are held hostage by an OB when pregnant because what woman would change OBs in her 40th or 41st week and I believe her OB is trading on that. I think that's why women have to ask a lot of questions of their OB before committing to them and go over all worse case scenarios to avoid situations like this. I think a lot of doctors are very arrogant and resentful when a patient comes armed with information but at the same time ridicule patients who don't do their own research. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
[ Reply | Options ]doctors are not as arrogant as you imagine. for the most part, they are trying to help people in very difficult situations. your attitude is clear: all doctors are out to harm patients. Please! Most people actually want to do a good job.
[ Reply | Options ]I never said that and if you can't understand what I was getting at then you have the problem. I said a lot of doctors are arrogant. I never said doctors want to hurt people so you are out of line. I believe even the most arrogant dismissive doctor wants to "first do no harm" and the most generous caring doctor can make an awful mistake.
[ Reply | Options ]But as I said and I stick by it, it comes with the job and if a doctor can't handle that job and takes out his or her frustrations with one or two difficult patients on all his other patients then it time to get out. Teachers shouldn't have to face school violence and students threatening them with bodily harm but it comes with the job. If you can't do the job, if it's impacting your care or your own mental health it's time to try something different. I think OPs doctor is out of line, whether she's a PITA or not. And if she's been bothersome the OB should have terminated the relationship long before the 41st week in her pregnancy.
[ Reply | Options ]medicine is different than teaching. Most doctors have many difficult patients, and work with them. It does happen on occasion that it serves no one to continue the relationship. It would be a huge jump to conclude from that that a doctor should give up his/her profession. doctors are human. as you have said, they are not g-d.
[ Reply | Options ]Doctors like to say they are not god but they also want to be all knowing and think they know best. Its sounds like they want it both ways. Hey, I'm not god but I know more than you, so you better listen to me or I'll threaten you with the dead baby scenario. I actually put teachers and doctors on equal footing and both pay a great deal for their degrees and sacrifice a lot for their profession. The difference is if a teacher made some sort of veiled threat to get a child or parent to listen to them the hammer would come down. But when a doctor does it, it's all because the doctor's knowledge is more superior to that of the patient. And while that may be true, no doctor should dismiss a patient's concerns no matter how nutty the information...
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The MD moms on here defending the OB are so lame. Tell me, MD moms -- Are you claiming that it is medically necessary to induce every woman at 7 days post due date? Are you saying that it is okay for an OB to simply practice like that, instead of looking at each case and seeing if there is a reason for intervention? Of course there are times when induction is good medicine, but not "just because" every woman needs it at 7 days past due date. In fact, that is BAD medicine and why there are good OBs who won't do that. Defending OBs as "risk averse" just because they are too lazy to stupid to want to look at the whole patient and see whether there is a reason to induce is ridiculous. That's like saying the good OBs who know that it is f...
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[-]Help... I've gotten myself in a horrible mess: I'm 5 days past my due date and have had a bad falling out with my OB. Basically, he never informed me of risks involved in certain interventions he wants and just assumed I'd follow along. When I raised my concerns (which were based on researching/reading medical journals, not mere googling) he just got mad and dismissed me -- refusing to acknowledge the validity of any of what I was saying. He's not allowing me to make any decisions regarding my care and is playing the "dead baby" card. He's dismissing my concerns as "cold feet", and basically just railroading me. I know he cannot force me to do anything I don't want to, but he has completely lost my trust. (Basically, if I do my own thing he...
161 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]A couple of my family members have had long-term med. problems. One of my dcs was in the hospital for many months. What I learned: doctors who are cold, dismissive and who "railroad" you aren't going to help you. Find a doc who's compassionate AND talented. Life's too short to waste on med. treatment that's partly bound up w/ someone's ego. Seriously. When I think of dc's best doctors (really, really talented and smart and hardworking) I can't imagine falling out with any of them. Disagree? Sure. I remember one of them holding my hands and looking at me really kindly and caringly and saying, Well, I'm giving you my best opinion. Take some time to think it over. Good luck... there are plenty of obs out there. If you want a rec for a new ob, ...
[ Reply | Options ]Can you request that one of his partners deliver you? At this point, I am not sure that you could change OBs/practice groups, given that you are 5 days overdue. What is the current plan -- induction at a specific date?
[ Reply | Options ]I agree -- it's really late and have no idea what to do. I am scheduled for an induction in 2 days, but I really really prefer to postpone it for another week and just be monitored every couple of days in the mean time. (Disagreement over this is part of the falling out with the current OB.)
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Part of it has to do with the date of induction. But my case is a little complicated, and it would get way too involved to discuss here... Suffice it to say that all of my objections to my OB's plans are well-researched and can be supported by valid, mainstream publications (not by quacks.)
[ Reply | Options ]you sound like a quack..you want to do it your way but with medical monitoring? it doesnt work like that you know either go 100% natural and let nature take its course or do some medical interventions...your doctor is telling you what he does and now your all up in arms because you want your "natural birth"..you should have figured this out at 8 wks not when your child could be placed in harms way because of your stubborn attitude.
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well you can just go to the hospital when your water breaks and ask for the resident on call...
[ Reply | Options ]ditto this. when you go into labor go to the nearest hospital and ask for the ob on call.
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I have considered this, but what will happen in the mean time? I will need to be monitored for the next few days. And what if I don't go into labor on my own? I will still need someone to induce me...
[ Reply | Options ]So the next time you go to your doctor just say to him you really did not appreciate the way he dismissed your concerns, you understand he has his opinion (and years of medical training) so ask him to explain to you in a way that you can understand why it is so important that you deliver by a certain date.
[ Reply | Options ]already tried this... It's not that I don't understand his reasoning (I definitely do). It's that he refuses to acknowledge any of my concerns as valid.
[ Reply | Options ]I'm the one who said to go back to your doctor - why do you feel that your medical expertise outweighs his? yes, you are the one having the baby & I am a big proponent of mother's intuition and going with your gut and have stood up to doctor's one my dc's behalf but at a certain point you have got to understand you are putting your baby at risk.
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every one is trying to help you and you still keep whining. what the h*ll do you want us to say. we've given you your only other option. just go to your ob, deliver your baby and get on with your life. next time don't wait until the last possible second so that you endanger yourself and your unborn child. you were with this ob for 40 weeks. this is your first indication he wasn't right for you?
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have one of the partners do it. i'm sorry. all i can tell you is that i also was somewhat uncomfortable w/ the potential for intervention for my dc#1. of course, i had back labor and after a long labor, with complications, ended up with an emergency c section. i beat myself up for months that i hadnt been a stronger advocate. i cried when my baby was born, rather than being happy. i couldnt get over the guilt. when he was 3mo, my cousin called. her baby, who was also sunny side up but delivered with forceps (for the same complication that my ob made us do via c-section) ended up with brain damage. holy kick in the head. birth is a moment. your child is there. dont let worry about the process cause to happen to you what happenned...
[ Reply | Options ]Listen to this woman - I have had 4 dcs and can only repeat - the point of delivery is to give birth to a baby who will hopefully live a long and fruitful life with you. It is NOT worth getting into a whole fight/guilt/resentment scene over how or when that happens. If your doc has reservations about your going too long w/o giving birth obviously he has his whole medical training behind him while you have only your internet browsing. Sure, he was brusque and probably rude but do you really, seriously want to risk your baby's life on "being right"? Suck it up & have the induction and just concentrate on your beautiful, happy baby
[ Reply | Options ]i agree with this. and i've had a number of wacky birth stories. things the doctors have done that i wasn't happy with, doctors that i felt were not listening to what i wanted, etc. i hate to say this but i think women tend to get hysterical about stuff like this. especially when you feel like you are being timed. you feel this panic b/c you are already past your due date and you know things are imminent.
[ Reply | Options ]^^^just want to add: i'm assuming your problem is not his medical expertise but his unilateral decision making. if i were you, i'd go back to him and say that you respect his medical expertise but you want to know the pros and cons involved in your choices. and can he please explain why he recommends option A over option B. good luck!
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np mmm definetely something to think about, maybe your dr has a reason for everything he is saying
[ Reply | Options ]Of course there is a reason -- he is not crazy! But there are reasons for what I am saying, also. And although I prefer a natural birth, this is not only about the birth process. I have valid concerns that an induction might harm my baby (this is specific to my case, not all inductions.)
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your baby. your body. do NOT let someone make you do something you are uncomfortable with. listen to your gut. this is nyc. there a so many wonderful hospitals. when you go into labor go to the hospital and tell them you don't feel comfortable having your dr there.
[ Reply | Options ]ita, but what if she doesnt go in to labor, it sounds like she needs to be induced
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np: actually, that's not true. in times/places where no induction or c-section, babies would die in utero.
[ Reply | Options ]np: this is based on what? sure everyone goes into labor eventually, but sometimes that's because there is a problem. I did not want to be induced at 41 weeks and that night my water broke. I ended up with a c-section anyway because of baby's position. I had a doula and was all ready for a natural birth, but to this day I thank God for "interventions" because otherwise neither I nor my child would be here. And does my having had a c-section at all affect my relationship with my child? no. I was able to bf immediately. It's not the end of the world, no matter how much you prepare for it.
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One of mine was 2 weeks late and one 2 weeks early. Due dates are a guess. Unless some test is telling you otherwise, there should be no harm in waiting till the baby is ready. Not an MD, just a reader and researcher and a mom who was induced twice - once due to the dead baby threat and once due to hospital rules. Having said that, it just isn't easy to stand up to doctors.
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But she was induced in the end - and she survived. So take that as a given, I had two "natural" burths and one induction and believe me the induction was by fat the easiest and least painful (the only one I did NOT have an epidural with)
[ Reply | Options ]survived, but still cry over giving in to the dead baby threat. My big old baby wasn't ready to come out and my body wasn't ready to let him out. But the doctor wanted db out. It could have been a beautiful birth but it wasn't. I pushed so long I looked like I was beaten up afterward.
[ Reply | Options ]"dead baby threat"? This is the weirdest thing I have ever heard. Your doctor warns you that you may be putting your child's life at risk and you think he is pulling one over on you? Look at your db today and tell me you would not throw yourself under a bus to save his life. Isn't he worth feeling "beaten up afterwards" for?
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I think you are being incredibly short sighted. You obviously want to have a healthy baby. It is too late to find another OB. If you don't want to nd up in an er and have some first year resident deliver db, go along with what the OB is telling you and swallow your pride and do what he is recommending. Just because you have done research does not mean you know more than your OB. By not having an OB now you are actually putting yourself and db at risk. Just call and accept what OB's plans are, have your baby, and then find another OB for the future.
[ Reply | Options ]i think you need to take a deep breath and step back for a minute. you haven't gotten yourself into a mess. write down very specifically the things you want out of a l&d. the things that are important for you. if you think he won't comply, see if you can use another doctor in the practice. or find another practice. plenty of doctors will take you just for l&d. but bear in mind, that anyone you switch to will be very very careful about the treatment, more conservative than normally.
[ Reply | Options ]She is 5 days past her due date. Any expectations the OP has or had about the way her labor will go really need to take into account the situation she finds herself in. Yes, there are certain things she can demand, like not being separated from her DH if she has to have a C section, or not being separated from her db. But at this point, let the experts do what they are there for: protect the baby and safely deliver it.
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Dear OP -- I too delievered both of my babies on the late side. I too was told I should induce. The difference is that I had a doctor who was reasonable and readily agreed to what you are asking for -- monitoring every 3 days starting at 40 weeks, every day at 41 weeks. you are right -- if the baby is fine, the baby should stay put until it is ready to come out. My Dr. was Rebarber, who runs the maternal fetal medicine practice at Mt. Sinai.
[ Reply | Options ]Ditto. I was also overdue twice - went into labor on my own at 42 weeks with #1, #2 was induced at 41 weeks when my ultrasound showed low fluid (but my OB would have "let" me go to 42 weeks if all test had been normal - I had intended to deliver in the SLR birth center). This was 6 and 4 years ago, respectively. My perception is that doctors have gotten more and more conservative recently in their management of post-dates pregnancy - when I was PG with #1 42 weeks was the norm, with #1 it suddenly became 41 weeks, and no increasingly it seems like if you are 1 day late your OB starts freaking out. I don't think you are at all out-of-bounds with what you are requesting, your OB is just taking a very conservative, defensive approach. My ...
[ Reply | Options ]I've heard about Dr Bradley -- been told she's wonderful. I will try to contact her. Thank you very very much for your support.
[ Reply | Options ]Good luck to you. I had a lot of concerns about the induction, along the same lines as yours, but it worked out fine in the end. But for your own peace of mind, you might be better off at this stage delivering with someone else, even if the medical recommendation ends up being the same. My experience has been is that the way women feel about their births as far less to do with what actually happens than how they get treated along the way.
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mine were too and I think they are fabulous! I had similar situation except that I did go into labor on my own. I'm above poster who ended up with c-section. My point to the post was you can advocate to give birth naturally, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way and that's okay as long as you have your healthy baby. (Also, fwiw, Bradley was willing to let me go, but she strongly recommended induction.)
[ Reply | Options ]OP never said she was insisting on a natural birth -- she said she doesn't want UNNECESSARY interventions. she doesn't want to induce simply because of the calendar, when there is no medical reason (low fluid, low heart rate etc)
[ Reply | Options ]That's exactly what I meant, thank you for standing up for me! But each person is entitled to their own opinion, and I understand some people are more comfortable with maximal intervention while others aren't. To each their own.
[ Reply | Options ]I understand where you're coming from and I also understand that part of the issue is that your doctor is a jerk. I totally get that. I'm just saying that I felt very much the way you do, but when it didn't work out the way I planned, it still worked out becuase my baby was okay. It could very well work out the way you plan too, but at the same time, you may not have another option because you need an OB. Also, I guess my response was also in part to the person who blamed herself for not having a natural birth.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, baby being ok is #1 priority. In retrospect, nothing else will matter. Maybe I'm just getting dragged by the hormonal flux. But like I said, I do have some concerns regarding induction -- and they do not revolve solely around c-section.
[ Reply | Options ]I do know that, and not saying you're being pig-headed or anything. What are you concerns about induction? I was concerned about it too. It's just that at this point, unfortunately, you don't have as many options. I do feel for you, and I would be pissed about the asshole doctor, but I also am not sure I'd want to show up at ER and take chances with any old doctor either. That's all I'm saying. I'm not judging, really.
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Good luck with whatever you decide. I know my OB would not let me go later than a week past due date. Remember a lot of this has to do with malpractice lawsuits. I think his opinion would be that of most obs and I doubt you could switch at this late date.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, it's kind of sad when medical care is dictated more by fear of litigation than by science. If you look at the recommendations given by the medical associations of other countries, they can be quite different, usually because they have fewer lawsuits to contend with...
[ Reply | Options ]well that is not the Dr's fault but I also think the health of the baby is his main concern right now. Especially if you have had complications (which I am thinking you have but am not sure).
[ Reply | Options ]I know it's not his fault -- though his bedside manner is not exactly excusable... As for the baby, it's been perfectly healthy all along, but yes, there are potential concerns which make both me and my doctor extra jumpy.
[ Reply | Options ]right...I know it's hard to make these decisions. I wanted a natural birth etc but it wasn't in the cards for me. Today (3 yrs. later) I realize that none of that really mattered. I do trust my ob though which obviously helps.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, same situation. I remember at the time I was very torn but leaning on no induction, but that night my water broke and it was decided for me. Unfortunately I still needed pitocin because I was strep B positive and from there I ended up with c-section. I could do the whole song and dance about woman's body and what it's meant to do, but at the end of the day I'm glad everything worked out. Don't regret it. Though I am thinking vbac.
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NP: The way I'm reading this, you're basically asking for informed consent. It says a lot about American OB practices that so many here think that is a shocking, unacceptable thing!
[ Reply | Options ]Couldn't have said it better myself! Unfortunately nothing will change until we, as patients, start demanding the requisite changes...
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I don't think it's shocking. I do think OP sounds like she has more of a medical background than the average patient. Most of us on this board are well educated and can read and research, but we still go to OB's for their expertise. I don't think it's that crazy to trust one's doctor (or want to trust) one's doctor.
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If she does not want to follow the advice of her OB, then she should be with a midwife. The patient/OB relationship should have some flexibility, but when push comes to shove, the OB is the expert. If you don't like that, then go with midwife.
[ Reply | Options ]I'm all for science and everything my OB represents. But in the end I don't like the "old-school" medicine: I don't want doctors to dictate their decisions. I want to use their knowledge and experience to get options and recommendations. And when science can support it, I want the doctor to allow me to make my own decisions. I don't want my doctor to withhold perfectly valid/scientifically sound information just because it's contradictory to his opinion/agenda.
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yes, I am the OP, and yes, I agree this is all moot at this point. The argument is more on principle than anything else. I agree with everyone here that I should have acted earlier, but a) he was highly recommended and b) I was slow to catch on to his ways because I was new in town and joined this OB's practice quite late into the pregnancy.
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But part of the deal is that he brings his own professional judgment to bear on the data. If you don't like that, opt out. But he is a professional, and you need to respect his experience, which informs his professional opinion.
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But we don't look at it that way in other areas of medicine, where it is generally accepted that a doctor has a responsiblity to inform patients about the pros and cons of all of their treatment options, and while he/she may strongly recommend a certain option, the ultimate decision lies with the patient. If a cancer patient said that she was concerned that her doctor was only recommending chemo when she knew from her own research that surgery was an option, would you call her a "whiner" and tell her she should just trust her doctor, the expert?
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If you are still watching this -- a similar thing happened to me. My OB insisted on breaking my water to "hurry" labor when I came in to the hospital. I had been planning on leaving after the OB nurses checked on me -- I was doing great and the OB nurse actually stood in back of the OB, shaking her head that no, there was no reason to break my water at that point. Ultimately, we "negotiated" that he'd wait an hour, and he ended up doing it, but ultimately it did work out fine. I didn't go back to him for db #2, but I'd recommend you talk to OB, tell him your reservations but that you will agree to an induction but on certain terms. Then you can say you don't want a C-Section just because you aren't progressing fast enough, but only if ...
[ Reply | Options ]Thanks for sharing. Yes, you are right. If I stick with by OB, I will have to sit down with him and devise a plan. The problem is, I now fear that he is a little too fast to pull the "dead baby" card on me. Of course I will do exactly what I'm told if I'm in labor and in pain and being told "either you do X or your baby suffers Y." But can I trust that this will really be the best option for the baby and me?
[ Reply | Options ]OR: It depends on your OB, but in my experience, my OB knew I had doubts about the induction (breaking water) leading to other unnecessary measures and I think he was a bit more accepting of allowing me to labor longer as a result. But honestly, you never know. Ironically, OB #2 insisted on inducing me on my due date for advanced maternal age (even OB #1 didn't do that). But I thought about it and decided I was just going to go with the flow, that I had chosen this OB for other reasons and I would accept his process this time. I'm guessing there were some things you liked about your OB and I think you should try to get in a zen state where you just go with the flow at this point (since it's so late), but change next time. I know it's ...
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It's hard when faced with that. I was induced for #1 due to high bp and with #3 for the same reason, although I resisted for a long time with #3 because bp wasn't rising and I didn't have any symptoms of preclampsia. Dh said he would be supportive if I refused induction do to drs orders, but I decided not to and worked with drs to ttry induction without pitocin, but after 18 hours had to get it. They gave me enough to get going and then broke my water and db was born in 1hr and I didn't get epi. My biggest concern was induction leading to c but we managed it to minimize that risk.
[ Reply | Options ]That's good to hear. My concerns are mostly with pitocin, so maybe I can work out a plan where I can avoid it...
[ Reply | Options ]I had pitocen to induce labor because both my previous labors had been so fast (4 hrs for 1st db & 2 hrs for 2nd). Since I was having twins both my doc & I wanted to be at the same place when it happened (not in the taxi on the way to hospital). Let me tell you, the induction was a breeze! So gentle and gradual, unlike my other experiences. If I ever had to choose I would go for induction in a heartbeat!
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why are you so afraid of induction? i know you say the reasons are specific to your case, but maybe if you share them we can better undersatnd why you feel so strongly about this. with my last baby i was also late. i didnt want induction and had to go to dr every other day for nst, check fluid, etc. this went on until 10 days past due date--when i went for check doc said there was literally no fluid, and needed induction. it really was not a big deal. doesnt change anything in the scheme of things. unless your "reason" is dramatic, i wouldnt flip out one way or another. call ob, say you feel bad things went sour and want to start the conversation again. then say you want help undersatnding why he feels so strongly, and want him to understan...
[ Reply | Options ]you do realize that all OP wants is exactly what you had -- daily monitoring to give the baby a chance to birth when it is ready, unless the monitoring shows a problem. she has said numerous times that if there is a sound medical reason, she will induce, but that looking a calendar is not sound medical reasoning.
[ Reply | Options ]well my dr was open to it. might have been bec it was child #3 and i had experience with going into labor, etc. my point is that induction is not this horrible thing with serious risks attached.
[ Reply | Options ]NP: It does, actually, have some serious risks attached. There's a reason they watch you like a hawk once they start the pictocin. With the right medical indications, the benefits of delivering the DB can outweigh those risks, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
[ Reply | Options ]if administered carefully and slowly the only real risks are csection, which can also be minimized by making sure properly dilated before induction. (and i was induced twice and nobody watched me like a hawk. the nurse would come in and out every so often, nobody stayed in there to watch me for those 4-6 hrs)
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have you tried stripping membranes? it really works in many cases to induce labor. drug free. a bit uncomfortable, but not horrible.
[ Reply | Options ]"a bit uncomfortable" - it hurt like hell! OTH, my ob did it without warning me so that might have contributed. Needless to say, he did not deliver db #2.
[ Reply | Options ]i dont remember it being so bad. ob didnt warn me either. i thought it was a regular exam, then asked whats going on and she told me what she had done. it was 2 days before scheduled induction, and got me from 1 cm to 4 cm by next day, so worth the pain i guess bec likely saved me from csection.
[ Reply | Options ]Well, I was already at 6 cm after one hr of labour so I did not see what the hurry was & it made my contractions (which were already very close) so hard & intense I had an epi which I wasn't planning on. While I had the epi the Doc "stretched" my cervix the last cm. All in all I delivered in under 4 hours - what was this some kind of race!?
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Yes, well of course reading medical journals makes you far smarter than a doctor who has 11 years of medical schooling and years of medical practice under his belt. You clearly know better than he does. Once this kid comes out you'll be setting up your own medical practice, I assume? Since you know so much about the subject.
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No, it is not, but it sounds like you have gone through something similar -- I am sorry. I hope all turned out ok for you...
[ Reply | Options ]My situation was during the delivery. You are lucky to have a heads up beforehand. And you are right to question what you are being told. A lot of doctors do treat pregnant women like malleable idiots. Don't listen to the people on this thread who are urging you to succomb to the pressure. Do your research, figure out what makes sense, and talk to the doctor about it. If he's looking for the path of least resistance, it won't be so easy for him to schedule that induction if you've done your homework.
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Two weird point about this post. 1. OP has still not given any specifics re why she fears inductions, but continues to make vague references to "her situation" as if the details are so unique and rare that we could not relate. I suspect a lot of opinions on here would change if we could hear the OBs concerns and the OPs fears. 2. As an MD, I can tell you, her OB is not sitting at home stewing about this and worrying if she'll ever talk to him again. We have patients disagree with us all the time. It's not personal. If she wants to return for a f/u he will behave professionally (taking into account his reportedly gruff bedside manner), and not be obsessing over these catty details. This whole post just sounds slightly off.
[ Reply | Options ]This is absolutely untrue. My ob wanted to do the amnio. I asked him how often he did it -- he said probably once a week. I asked about going to someone who only did amnios (there are doctors who specialize and do 5 or more a week, or probably more, in NYC). OB took that personally and said if I didn't trust him to do the amnio, I should find another OB.
[ Reply | Options ]you sound like a pita patient and doc was greatful you presented an opening for him to refer you out to another MD. we often get stuck with the tough patients and it can be hard to get rid of them unless you get a wonderful opportunity such as this
[ Reply | Options ]Have you noticed the trend on this thread? If a woman questions her doctor's advice it must be because she is (a) a whiner, (b) "hormonally hypped up" or (c) a PITA. It couldn't possibly because she has valid concerns, or because her doctor isn't providing the best possible care.
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OP here: It is, indeed rare, and no one probably cares. But it's a rare chromosomal disorder which may or may not produce traits common with autistic spectrum disorder; which in turn may or may not be linked to pitocin. Does this really make a difference? Point is, it's a concern, and I'd like it addressed, not waived off because dr assumes I'm hormonal...
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Well, I have had 3 ms and the only way I knew of to find out about fetal chromosal anomalies was in thru an autopsy so I was just wondering how you could have found out. Anyway, it all sounds very vague and may or may not be a possible problem has to be weighed against the very real and very well documented risk of placenta failure.
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^^^ I found out through amnio. I can definitely recognize that placental failure is a real concern. But the pit concern is just as real for me. That is why I would rather go with intensive monitoring over the next few days...
[ Reply | Options ]How about a compromise? How about you agree to be hospitalized for the monitoring? That way you can be continually monitered and if the baby goes into distress you can be whisked into delivery room immediately. Although really, that doesn't seem to avoid the risk of a c-section...
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Two weird things about this post. 1. OP continues to be evasive in regards to discussing specific details of her induction concerns. I'm guessing were she to reveal everything, despite repeatedly saying it's too complicated to go into, many of us would have a different opinion. I know we all want to think our pg is so unique, but it's pretty rare that NO ONE can relate to the specifics of your experience. 2. As an MD, I can say with certainty that her OB is spending a whole lot less time thinking about this than her. He gave his recs, which he has clearly documented in her chart. She can follow them or not. It's not personal. Should she make another appt, he will see her and continue care. This whole post is just a little off.
[ Reply | Options ]np - because we had the worst complication the first time around (full term baby was born with fatal heart defect and did not make it), we were very anxious with our next pregnancy. OB was concerned baby might stay breach and said he was willing to try a natural delivery if we wanted but that there was risk. DH said he didn't care if they had to take db out of me with a backhoe, he wanted the baby to be safe. And I agreed 100% to the c-section if necessary (turned out baby did not stay breach, and birth was fine. We now have 2 healthy dcs). Just saying that the baby being born healthy is the ONLY important thing. The "birth experience" really doesn't hold a candle to that. So if I were OP, and concerned about pitocin risk, I'd push f...
[ Reply | Options ]So sorry to hear about your loss and so glad you went on to have two healthy dbs. No one who has not lost a baby knows how agonizing it is and how ridiculous it is to obsess over the manner in which he or she arrived in this world.
[ Reply | Options ]or - thanks. Not that I would wish what we went through on anyone, but it really annoys me when women say they were traumatized by their different-then-they-imagined-it birth experiences, when they have healthy dbs! Not that op was doing that. But she should explore getting a c-section if they have to get the baby out and she doesn't want pitocin.
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OP here. So so very sorry to hear about this.... And I wholly agree with you regarding the baby's safety. But the doc has not given me any reason why the baby should be "out". It seems to be doing very very well, by all measures. Plus the first trimester ultrasound indicates that the baby is not full term yet (dr opted to estimate delivery date with LMP instead. Note that this is not the recommendation of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology.) And to complicate matters, I have issues of my own, which make a c-section quite undesirable (i.e. potential long-term consequences.) But none of the specifics of this case matter. What matters is that it still seems ok for patients to be railroded by their doctors. I tried to be relaxed ...
[ Reply | Options ]No, what matters most is that the baby is ok. I'm quite sure the doc has told you about the placenta's inability to give enough oxygen after a certain point, if not, plenty of people in this thread have! I'm also quite sure you have had an ultrasound since the first trimester that can more accurately determine the baby's weight and size which is far more important than "delivery date". Given that your doc is a trained professional I'm pretty sure he is aware of the risks you are worried about and has weighed them against the risk associated with late deliveries. All this is to say, you put yourself in this doctor's hands because you did not consider yourself capable of delivering this baby yourself. Now stop insisting you know better th...
[ Reply | Options ]or-it is too bad that you don't feel you can trust your OB's advice on this and that he hasn't explained his reasons in a way that is compelling. We had to induce with our younger dc (I had an umbilical hernia) and it turned out when I got to the hospital for the induction I was already in mild labor. If you can make peace with pitocin or c-section if labor doesn't start naturally by date x, maybe you can try to start labor in the traditional ways - sex, spicy food, carbonated beverages, walking (and what about prostaglandin gels?)... it's just that coming from where I'm coming from I wouldn't keep waiting because for me the dead baby card is too real.
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oh, sorry . i think we've chatted before. i have 4 y/o son with hlhs. did you have another baby recently?
[ Reply | Options ]Don't think we have - haven't talked about this online before. How is your son doing? Did he do the surgeries?
[ Reply | Options ]oh, guess it was somebody else. he has finished all surgeries and thank Gd is doing great. what hospital were you at? did your daughter have surgery?
[ Reply | Options ]That's wonderful, so nice to hear he's doing well. We were at NYU and had the first surgery at CHOP, and she died just after that. She was small and this was 15 years ago, so they first recommended we give comfort care and not try the surgery. But she hung on, and we tried -- I'm glad we gave her the best shot we could. It was a long time ago now, we have two dcs now, 12 and 14, healthy thank god.
[ Reply | Options ]wow. guess things were very different 15 yrs ago. did you have fetal echos done with your others, or was that not even the standard back then? i am preg now, and still too early for echo, and its very stressful.
[ Reply | Options ]Yes, had fetal echos at 20 weeks. Sooo stressful, but was so relieved when they were OK. I had a regular sono with my first, but she moved around too much and the sono doctor got impatient and said he saw a 4 chambered heart but couldn't have. They told us we had a 3-13% chance of having some kind of heart defect with other children, even though they couldn't find a reason why this had happened. What odds do they give now?
[ Reply | Options ]not that high! told me 2-3 % whereas normal pple have 1% chance. btw, my ds does have 4 chambered heart. just that the valves on left side werent working so the left side was kinda useless, but i think quite a few hlhs kids do have 4 chambers, and even more do at 20 wks. its those last 20 wks where it can shrink if parts of the left side arent working well.
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Delivered DS 8 days late at NYU w/ high risk practice. Doctors never mention induction. Monitored me every few days once i passed due date. Said I could go full two weeks past EDD as long as baby was okay (measured by non-stress test). Good luck...you absolutely do not have to be induced, yet.
[ Reply | Options ]OP, I feel for you. It sounds like you're with a very old-school and conservative OB, and I understand what you say about how he estimated due date. Sounds frustrating, but I think it's probably unlikely at this point that you'd be able to get another MD. Agree with other posters who suggest trying to make the best of it with your OB. (Is he the only one who delivers in the practice? If not, that's another option, but you can never guarantee who'll be on duty.) Here's another suggestion: acupressure to try to bring on labor. There are specific pressure points around the achilles tendon; a good massage therapist should know. This worked for me. I was 41wk1day (though I knew I really had a margin of a few days b/c I knew I had ovulated a few ...
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[-]Need a nanny M-Th 8am-1pm? We would like to share ours, if interested reply back. Thanks.
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[-]I have a lot of guilt. I'm an ivy league-educated lawyer who always imagined myself juggling a competitive, demanding job with raising a happy family. Now that I'm a mom I find that I want to spend a maximum of 15 hours a week working so that I can spend more time with my two children (oldest is 2 y.o. and second is due this spring). I also want time to do things that I enjoy - like exercising to stay in shape, cooking healthy meals for my family, reading great books and gardening. I feel like I've turned into a wannabe 1950s housewife and will ultimately disappoint myself and my peers, but my desire to drop out of the competitive career path I've chosen is profound. DH is also disappointed and concerned about losing nearly half our fa...
46 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]You are me! Except IANAL. I don't want to go back to work, & DH just isn't sympathetic, even though it's not a $ issue. I'm afraid of what it will do to my marriage, but going to the office is killing me.
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Turn it around. How would YOU feel if DH suddenly decided he did not want to work anymore and wanted to stay home with the kids? I understand you want to spend time with your children, but DH is a part of the family too and his opinion counts. It's not really fair of you to pinch the family's way of life so you can be with the kids the few years they need you at home. THe likelihood is you won't be able to get another job at the income level you're at now if you drop out now.
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It's so normal to feel this way at this stage of your life. Your priorities are shifting and it can make you feel stressed and confused. As a SAHM who gave up a rewarding creative career I will say that your 1950s fantasies are just fantasies--this job is no picnic either. It can be boring, hard, lonely and demoralizing. That said, it is absolutely your prerogative to seek the balanced life you want.
[ Reply | Options ]I personally would feel guilty if I were in your situation - you spent a lot of (your or parent's) money on those degrees and it's all for naught. If your DH is already disappointed, it's not going to get any better. He'll start to resent you for taking the easy life and leaving him to bring in the money alone.
[ Reply | Options ]Caring for children and running the home is not "taking the easy life." I've done both and, in our case, our family (including DH) has benefited from my choosing homemaking over a finance career. We reduced our lifestyle to live (and save) on one income and it's worked out great. Don't feel guilty, but make sure you reduce your overhead and take care of DH so he can enjoy the benefits, too.
[ Reply | Options ]I do consider it the easy life compared to working but still successfully taking care of your kids, home, husband. My mom was my role model for this. My other SAHM relatives (aunts, older cousins, grandmother) admit it's a much more relaxed life.
[ Reply | Options ]I respectfully disagree. I could spend countless hours just reading up on waht stage of her intellectual, emotional deleopment my dd is on. Let alone time spent on differnt play activities, cooking and cleaning. AND when i was home with her those first 9 mos- i took her out- to class, museums, visting family and freinds. I was exhausted and I always felt like I was behind. I still do. Just "teaching" how to share is a 100 hr (more) endeavor.
[ Reply | Options ]np: i think in the long run it can definitely be more relaxing. i guess my question would be why is it a bad thing for someone to want a more relaxing life. i'm not talking about the moms who marry money so they can sit and play tennis all day. but why is it bad to say 1. i'm tired of the rat race and 2. i have something better to do with my time (being home with my kids more) and the two combined can be the right decision. why keep a stressful job and a stressful lifestyle just b/c you spent a lot of money on the education and you thought it would be what you wanted?
[ Reply | Options ]nnp: I had a career & became a SAHM mom. It is easier even tho I take my job as parent as seriously as anyone. My life is nice. But poster above comments interest me. I do feel like my WOHM friends look down on me. You only live life once so isn't it stupid not to enjoy it as much as you can. I feel like my friends think they are noble & I'm a throw back because I'm not spending my life in a frenzy.
[ Reply | Options ]I think it is harder to be at home! You can feel isolated, a child requires an incedible amount of patience. money is the only thing that keeps me from being home with my dd. i cannot imagine looking down on a SAHM. being a mom is the best and hardest job I have ever had. and I have worked 80 hr weeks back to back. i guess everyone is differnt but I dont see what is noble abt being part of teh frenzy. I guess it can be but it is all about what you like- some moms like that, some moms dont.
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What I don't get is why do woen think these choices are some kind of entitlement? Your husband doesn't think he has that choice.
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you shouldn't feel guilt over this. i don't know why we think that our goals at 20 or 25yo (when you were choosing a profession and before marriage and kids) are more important than your desires/goals/ideals now. instead of feeling guilty, you should do some hard thinking about what your goals are (long term and short term), what your financial needs and wants are, and what your dh's goals and financial needs/wants are. You also need to separate issues. instead of worrying that you will "disappoint your peers" (who cares?) and that you're turning into a "wannabe '50s housewife", why don't you focus instead on what's important to you instead of whether you are falling into a stereotype. signed, total stereotype who did it by choice and...
[ Reply | Options ]Wow, this obviously hits home for a lot of us here, & I'm one of them. I'm a doctor & ironically I have a 3 y.o. & I'm due early summer w/my 2nd. I always was competitive, had a lot of drive/ambition & then I had my first child & I care more about being a mommy than climbing up the professional ladder. But I'm 42 y.o... I don't know how old you are but I don't feel that guilty about it & somehow I've attributed that to my age (not sure if it's true or not). But I gave my 30's completely to building my professional self successfully, why not give my 40's to building my family. I certainly waited long enough. However, we don't have the luxury for me to completely leave work & be on one salary so I do need to work part-time. The strug...
[ Reply | Options ]I am you. I am a doctor with 2 DCs who went PT when 2nd was born and have slowly become a SAHM. I am older too o/w I wouldn't have had the courage to do it. I would have felt I disappointed my peers, wasted a seat, etc. But being older I just decided life is short & I can't ruin my own life because of this. I do feel enormous guilt still & maybe I'm projecting but I think people do look disapproving many times. Still, I love my life & wouldn't change it for the world. Part of it is that there aren't many doctors who give up their careers.
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I am in th every same boat (ivy, lawyer), except only one child and DH is supportive. His support is currently only in theory, because he does not yet have a job, but I wanted to say that you are not alone, and that finding that balance will beneficial to the whole family, including your husband. I do have loans, however, so I am stuck doing this a while longer.
[ Reply | Options ]ivy, lawyer, doing contract attorney work, 33-35 hrs/ week max, see my dd a lot more, work is so boring I could scream BUT see my dd a lot more! GL
[ Reply | Options ]i totally know where you're coming from. i realized after dc1 that i was not that professionally ambitious and that while i still want to woh (and would not make a great sahm), i don't want to work as many hours and i really want to be a hands on mom and still have a minute for myself. w dc2, this has intensified. i'm lucky to have a flexible job so i'm able to take time for the kids when i want to, but now have little time for myself and it's a struggle. i do need to work financially and i do want to work, but ideally, i'd prefer to work about 20-25 hours/week - say 3 days and have 2 at home.
[ Reply | Options ]Can you push really hard for 4 days / week or part-time work? It won't completely solve the problem, but it will help a little bit. And good luck! Remember that all of us are struggling with these issues, no one has the perfect answer and you've just got to figure out what's best for you and your family right now.
[ Reply | Options ]I get it completely. I think the hardest part is if your dh is not on board. Let go of the guilt for awhile if you can. You will both be a little overwhelmed when #2 comes along. If you feel really strongly about remaing sahm, I would suggest a family therapist so you and dh can go through it with a 3rd party. It may not be possible financially (or not in a way you can live with), but I think it's a good exercise. Come up with something you can live with--and that may mean dh taking on more childcare responsibilities, which may be something he has not considered realistically. gl
[ Reply | Options ]NP: This is first and foremost your life. Do you want to live it how you want to and go with the ebb and flo.....maybe you will have a strong desire to return in a few years. Do you want to be part of a larger movement or do you want to live your life in the moment? Lastly, ask yourself will you be sad when your dc's are 8 or nine and spending large portions of the day away from you and with friends/sports/hobbies that you did not spend the early years, when they're pretty needy( sometimes overwhelmingly so)? BTW, now that dcs are 8 and 6 I am so oooooo ready to go back to work.
[ Reply | Options ]I had the best education I could possibly imagine, had some lucrative jobs (and some not), never really found something I loved and wanted to stick with. Am now SAHM with #2 on the way...I don't want things to be different, but constantly feel like I failed to live up to my potential, and I am less interesting than the woman dh married. Am terrified of what will happen in 18 years when the nest is empty. Who will I be?
[ Reply | Options ]Am ivy, biglaw lawyer here as well -- what ultimately worked for me was a part-time schedule, which I think that you should consider, if there your current firm would allow it. It's an ideal situation for me -- I'm around enough to cook healthy meals, take dc on playdates, etc. while also maintaining my credentials, work experience, etc...
[ Reply | Options ]this is a syndrome that's becoming more and more common and is so rarely addressed. i feel like i was so inundated with information when i was pregnant, but nobody ever told me about that my ambition to be a great editor/writer would be so diminished. i feel like i checked my ambition at the door to the hospital. but, i'm working part-time now and freelancing a little on the side and i LOVE it. i feel like i'll keep one foot in the game and maybe get back to my career ambitions when my kids are older or try something else.
[ Reply | Options ]So many women lawyers find themselves in this situation (and non-lawyers too!). For me, the answer was getting a govt job. Stable, predictable hours & paycheck; interesting work; good balance. After I had my first db, I realized that for me, there was absolutely no way to continue in a big firm as a mom and be happy. And when you have #2, it's only harder.
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[-]I am expecting (due in April) and planning to hire a nanny to start in September. I live on the UES. When should I start my search? Any tips on how to start a search?
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]What a coincidence. I am here to find information how to give a notice to my wonderful nanny who will be no longer needed from September this year. (We will be enrolling my dd daycare center due to financial matter.) I know I will be heartbroken when giving the notice so cannot give her such notice without any alternative plan. Please email me if you are interest in interviewing her after July. I have not given any notice yet, it is too early, but think of giving her 2 month prior (maybe early July) no matter what other people say. (I have such a trust on her.) I am planning to post her AD around that time too. Just for your reference, I also found her through the CL. I was very nervous during the search but decided to hire her,...
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[-]I work at a small company where I am the only employee. I am newly pregnant, and not planning to tell my bosses for a while, but its a difficult situation. I know that they'll basically want me to leave and find a replacement as soon as I tell them, because I won't be working after the baby is born - when should I realistically plan to tell them, assuming the pregnancy progresses fine.
4 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]I'm in the exact same situation! I would wait until you absolutely have to - when you start to show. I do plan to return to work, if they save the job for me, which they might. I'm still not going to tell them until the last possible moment, which I know will piss them off since they like to think that my life should be an open book to them. I really don't like the intimacy of such a small company.
[ Reply | Options ]Thanks, this is my dilema! I won't tell them until I start to show, but because the place is so small I highly doubt they'll save the job for me - and I don't think we qualify for maternity leave or anything like that because of the size.
[ Reply | Options ]No, we definitely don't qualify for maternity leave, unfortunately. I don't even think I qualify for short-term disability since they carry no insurance coverages on me at all. Though I suppose if you're not planning on going back to work, you wouldn't get that anyway. I think they'll save the job for me since it took them over a year to find me, looking for the perfect "fit" since the company is so small. And I can do most of what I do from home anyway.
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[-]5.5 weeks pregnant... MIL's birthday and I am cooking tonight for her, SIL/BIL and dh. Making filet mignon... my question (sorry if this is ridiculously stupid but I'm new here) - do I need to make my steak well-done? I usually eat my meat very rare, but am not sure if I need to change that now that I'm pregnant.
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[-]people are soo rude, espec. ILS they poke fun bc i dont give junk food to my dd. i hate eating over there mil is puts on this thing like im a freak, dd was sp excited to have apple for dessert and she was acting like she felt sorry for the kid, ans always says she can never have anything good"" she got all sad because i told her NO whe she wanted to giv dd some of her ice cream at a restaurant the other day, how do I deal, i didnt let her ahve cake at a party and everyone was actig like i though i was too good, dd didnt even look or ask dor it ahe 21 mos.
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two issues:1. your IL's will alwyas find somethign to bitch about, so you must learn to nod, smile, ignore. 2d, as much as i am not a fan of junk food i think its a little crazy to deny your kid ice cream or cake at a party, if the child wants it.
[ Reply | Options ]We don't eat crap and I really think taking a kid, that you won't allow to have cake/ice cream to a party is pretty ridiculous.
[ Reply | Options ]We're not talking ham hocks here or chicharron, right? Unless true allergies are involved, you are setting yourself and your kid up for some mighty battles, possibly later on sugar binging and all kinds of crap. Steer your child in good directions, exemplify moderation and let that kid have a happy relationship with MANY types of food. Outside of acute health issues, obesity or major behavioral upsets, sugar deprivation is extreme. Please note that there are hard stats on kids that drink choc milk,(soy, rice,goat, and other subs for cow) and eat refined sugar in moderation. These people tend to grow up and not eat refined sugar to excess and don't consume a fraction of the soda that deprived or over exposed kids.
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let it be dds decision. you don't have to have it in your house, but don't make a big deal when you are out, or it will eventually become "forbidden fruit" and thus *more* attractive to her. just say that dd doesn't want any, if that's true, it doean't have to be about you at all. at some point she'll want to try it. what is your fear about that?
[ Reply | Options ]nothing, i totally agree with you, Because she has the rest of her life for that. but why offer it at 21 mos. its mostly MIL trying to give it to her for no good reason. The baby LOOOves healthy food. I gave her plain whipped cream and she hated it. It is everyone who tries to push it on me and make fun. I dont make fun of people who give their kid hot dogs and french fries
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Why is cake or ice cream "junk food"? To me, junk food is chips, highly processed fast foods and the like. I think of ice cream and cake as party food - like pumpkin pie - that might have some celebratory significance. Like it or not, almost every culture celebrates with special foods. I think you're going to have a very hard time keeping these things from dd for much longer. I can see why you wouldn't want her to live on them, but what's wrong with her enjoying them when everyone else is, on a special occasion?
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[-]im 28 week prego, and have already gain 21 lbs, midwife says to take it easy but i want all the sweets in sight ive been behaving ok, but im ready to say f--- it , im miserable so eating is my only joy
14 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]You know if you put it on you will have to lose it later which might make you even more miserable. Can you find healthy things fruit etc to snack on.
[ Reply | Options ]Be careful though - I did the same thing and baby gained too much weight too quickly and I ended up with gestational diabetes. Had to induce early.
[ Reply | Options ]I just did the test and im fine, i have 11 weeks left so if i gain 10 more itll be a total of 31 lbs, thata not soo bad?
[ Reply | Options ]I gained 50 with dd (and am only 5'4"), was miserable and hated myself - made it hard for me to enjoy the pregnancy at all, and while I lost it all (and then some) in 7 months it was hard and unhappy. PG with #2 now, 8 weeks, eating sooo carefully while trying to be sensible -- am determined not to make the same mistake twice. Anyway - 31 lbs isn't bad, no, but I would hate for anyone to feel as miserable as I did...
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If you want to eat healthy and eat ice cream - i highly recommend the low fat stonyfield farm frozen yogurt. IMHO - it tastes just as good as the real thing. I had some every night when I was pregnant with dd...
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[-]i never thought i would say this--37yo WOHM at 28 weeks w/ #2--on a business trip (overnight) and I just want to cry with the pain and exhaustion of carrying this baby...I just don't think I can do this anymore...and I swore I was super woman
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[-]I am nervous about our financial situation. DH unemployed for 6 months, 1 DC and another on the way, WOH mom whose takehome pay covers 50% of household expenses so we are dipping into savings. We just moved to a bigger rental apartment in preparation for the new baby. I think we are living beyond our means but DH doesnt. We now pay 50% more rent than before, he insisted that quality of life is very important to him. He even went out to buy a 50" TV plus ancillaries like home theater system. Now he is talking about having a babymoon to help us relax before the baby arrives. I dont want him to be unhappy being at home so I try to give in to his requests. Should i be more firm and say no to what seems to be extravagant spending at a challengin...
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