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[+] Help me choose between Spence and Horace Mann? Any real insight? 10 replies
- ^^btw we wanted coed bc dd is an only child...
- why is that better for an only?...
Talk : : February 14, 2009
Help me choose between Spence and Horace Mann? Any real insight?
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.14.09, 04:07 PM [ Flag ]prefer coed - but prefer spence by a LOT. which did yours get into, which would you choose?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]hm, but i would have had a tough time because we loved spence too. coed won out in the end so thats what we pushed for.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 05:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^btw we wanted coed bc dd is an only child
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 05:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why is that better for an only?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 07:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Spence, without a doubt.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Well I think it all comes down to whether you want SS or Co-ed.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thought i wanted spence, but now worried that i should pick coed, even though like spence best
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Where do you think DD will do the best over the next 13 years? Overall which environment "fits" her better? Where do you see her walking the halls, taking classes, making friends, etc. and really being happy?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why the pressure to pick coed?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] can i afford pvt school if it means i can't save any $ for the next 12 years? thrill... 39 replies
- college and many other enrichments in those 12 years. But I only believe in private school if it comes out of your petty...
- If you and your DH or DW are only 25, may be...
- only child? Any chance you incomes will increase over the years....
- yes, only child. yes, chance incomes will increase, but probably about as...
Talk : : February 14, 2009
can i afford pvt school if it means i can't save any $ for the next 12 years? thrilled that dd was accepted to FC (only choice, actually), and I think we could swing it, but it would mean not having any cash savings (still contribute to 401(k) and 529 (b), and a small cushion (35k) in mutual funds). what do you think?
39 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.14.09, 01:29 PM [ Flag ]wouldn't do it...
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]if you put similar amounts into savings for her, you could pay all of her college and many other enrichments in those 12 years. But I only believe in private school if it comes out of your petty cash fund.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
It doesn't sound like a good idea to me but I am very conservative when it comes to $ and wouldn't want to go out on such a limb for private school. It seems like should anything change even slightly in your circumstances, you will be in a very difficult situation.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you and your DH or DW are only 25, may be...otherwise you need to save more for yourself and your DD.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]dh and I are old. we've been saving in 401(k)s for a long time already- and in 529 B since dd was born (not that there's anything in that account in this economy).
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I wonder how Suze Orman would respond....
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm sure she'd say go public.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If one of you lost your job, would you still be able to swing it?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no way. also feel like I should add that we have no debt (no mortgage, no cc debt).
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
what is your public option?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]public option is 'fine.' not great, but hey, it's free. Middle school would be an issue- wouldn't send her there. I was thinking it was easier to get in to pvt now vs. later.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]then there you go, a "fine" public school it should be. Really, you'll thank us all in 12 years from now.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]did you take OLSAT
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, but no good program anywhere near me. and the citywides would be a long shot.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
no, no, a thousand times no.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]we are on FA and wouldn't send dc to our zone public. We don't have a savings (except for annuity and stock) but we are willing to make the sacrifice for private. We are both ppl who came from very poor families and had to take out loans for college. Our kids can do that too..but we are willing to pay for private now..it's important to get that good foundation. This is how we feel and I don't expect others to understand where we are coming from
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: well I certainly understand how you feel, which is why I'm having this problem. I could also stop saving in my 529(b) which is for dd's college education. we've been making monthly contributions. really have some hard thinking to do since our zoned public really is ok.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not NP, but I completely understand - I had such a rotten education that I am willing to pay -
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I feel the same. s
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You have annuities and stock, and you are receiving FA?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If it was my fc, I'd do it and reassess in a few years.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so all of you who are sending kids to pvt (and not getting FA) have an extra 35k a year in petty cash? I thought no one saved money and we're all in debt??
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]some people have family money
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np Our income is down 30%, but still high enough to afford private without asking grandparents for help.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]and continue to save too?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^All of dh's bonus was cash, but much of it was deferred to be paid out over 3 years; we consider this part of our savings as it's not stock.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
No family money. Been living on 25% of our income for a long time. Can easily afford private and still retire. Last year, we donated the equiv. of a private school tuition to our PS. We'll do the same this year, and if something catastrophic happens, it won't matter if we can't swing it the following year. I'd hate to have it be an obligation, and I wouldn't want to have my kid forced to change schools. If 12 years of private meant living basically paycheck to paycheck, there is not a chance in hell I'd consider it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 03:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
do you have any other significant assets, e.g., lots of equity in home? We send one dc to private, don't save much more than 529 or retirement, but own home outright.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, we're in similar situation. not a home, but we own our coop.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]only child? Any chance you incomes will increase over the years.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yes, only child. yes, chance incomes will increase, but probably about as much as tuition will!
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 02:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]tough call. I'd say no with 2 or more dc. With one, it's possible. We took a deep breath and leapt in. Turned down a great public option for a private, which was our fc for dc. I think it the private hadn't been our fc, we would have gone public. The way we looked at it was public school will always be there, but the ability to get dc into such a great school might not come along again. So far, so good. The fact you own your apartment is huge. Not having debt gives you much more flexibility, and you may be in better shape than people who have higher incomes but also have debt. Fwiw, we've found that the cost of private school has not made that much difference in our budget as it equals about the cost of preschool plus part-time childcare. And we've cut back in little ways--dinner outs, spend less on clothes, vacations, etc. Even in this scary climate, we do not regret the decision.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 03:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Your savings should be in a bank--not in mutual funds.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 03:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Think this through carefully. I wrestled with the same dilemma, was new to NYC and chose Pvt. Six years later, we're thrilled w/ the education, DS is happy and doing well, but we have no financial cushion & it's a stretch to pay tuition. Consider the things that can happen that you don't want to think about: job loss, divorce, major medical issue (God forbid), tuition increases. Am now seriously considering switching DS to public or moving to suburbs after next year. It's not sustainable, and I earn an income that would be envied in most parts of the country.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 04:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's the "not sustainable" that stopped us. We could easily have done it for the next,say 4 years, but who knows after that? Did not want to be on a financial treadmill. Chose public, and have been thrilled with it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 05:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: Which public?
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 05:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
no--your financial future is not sound
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 05:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have to agree with the others that it would not be a financially sound decision to spend $35K on tuition each year, instead of saving it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 06:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Co-ed or ss for an only child? 12 replies
- Co-ed for an only child or a child with only same sex siblings...
- and it seems to be easier for her to stay focused in a class w/ only girls....
- and it seems to be easier for her to stay focused in a class w/ only girls. She started out in a co-ed school, switched to SS in the middle...
Talk : : February 13, 2009
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Co-ed for an only child or a child with only same sex siblings
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ds, btw
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Co-ed. The world is more than 50% female.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
we chose SS
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ditto
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why? Sorry but can you elaborate more? Are you happy there?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I just posted below. Our dd is a bit of a tomboy and easily distracted when boys are around. I think being w/ all girls has helped balance her out. Most of her good friends from the neighborhood are still boys, but she's gotten better at socializing w/ girls and it seems to be easier for her to stay focused in a class w/ only girls. She started out in a co-ed school, switched to SS in the middle of elementary. We're all very happy we made the change.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
For DS, SS.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Depends more on ds's temperament than the fact that he's a singleton.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]What kind of temperament?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You tell us. What's your ds's temperament like? We chose SS for our singleton dd. It was the right choice for her. She's a bit of a tomboy and easily distracted when boys are around. I think being w/ all girls has helped balance her out. Most of her good friends from the neighborhood are still boys, but she's gotten better at socializing w/ girls and it seems to be easier for her to stay focused in a class w/ only girls.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
single mom and i am wondering the same thing. dc would be fine in either environment. if I have a choice I think i will base it on the schools and not the ss/coed issue unless both great schools. will see how tomorrow goes. no psd so no feedback
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] God, some women are SO SELFISH. Change my last name to dh's? Hell no, it's super-dupe... 146 replies
- discussion. My point is, the OP's point only applies where the general culture follows a certain...do anyway, it's hardly special. It's only when you take the other's desires seriously...whatever, lots of my friends have joint accounts only, and I don't care. I just don'...For example Let's say she's the only child in her family with that last name...
- they should only give opinions or guidance when asked...
Talk : : February 12, 2009
God, some women are SO SELFISH. Change my last name to dh's? Hell no, it's super-duper important to me that I retain every bit of my independence; no way am I giving that up even if it means a lot to him. Take care of widowed mil while her broken leg heals? Hell no, why would I want to do anything for the woman who raised dh? Let her go to a nursing home! No wonder the divorce rate is 50+%. Sometimes you have to think of someone besides yourself and your smart, gorgeous, heavenly dc's.
146 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.12.09, 08:36 PM [ Flag ]Really? You think keeping my name is SELFISH? Not even selfish but SO SELFISH? Whoa. I can think of a million kinds of selfish behavior, many of which I'm guilty of, but why in the world is my keeping my name SO SELFISH? I'd love to know what whacky reasoning makes you think so.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It is selfish. Changing your name creates a connection between you, your husband, and your in-laws. You feel more "married" if your name has changed - more a part of dh's family. Unless you won a Nobel Prize or an Oscar with your maiden name, there's no reason to change it. Of course, if you care more about maintaining your "independence" than having a happy married life or relations with your in-laws, then you'll do whatever the hell you want, then divorce 5 years later and become another statistic.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's not my independence, it's my identity. It's my NAME. What about the connection between me and MY family? Would it be the same if my husband changed his last name for mine? There's every reason not to change it. My parents gave it to me and it's my name. I've been married to my wonderful husband for 17 years. You really think I didn't change it so I could divorce more easily? Wow, you have some really strange ideas.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Eh, whatever. If you really loved your husband, and he felt strongly about having you change your name to his, you would do it. Simple as that.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITTA. It's like she's already anticipating the divorce. He's better without her.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]He's better without her after 17 yrs? How about he loves being with her and if he had wanted a pet instead of a wife, then he'd have been happier with you than with her.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What if you want your husband to change his name. Would he love you enough to do it? BTW its 2009.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]BTW that's a stupid suggestion.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why honey? You could both have the same name then, right? If you wanted it enough and he loved you enough, he should do it, right? Whats stupid about it?
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Because it's stupid, that's why.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Its just stupid, thats why!? How old are you? I can see why you think its best to change your name btw... your ability to coherently explain yourself does say a lot about you faculties.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh eat me. It's just stupid. And I'm 30.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np- DH felt strongly about me changing my name. I didn't. After 8yrs of marriage, he will still always say that he wishes I changed my name, and I say I wish he changed his, it hasn't changed how we felt about each other. If you really loved your husband, you would stop identifying yourself as a wife and a wife alone... so he has a partner for a wife, not a doormat.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I feel bad for your DH. So sad.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Don't. When you are married to a man who can handle a woman with a brain, you don't need to worry about his happiness.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]So you say.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: If you're under the impression that every DH wants their DWs to change their names and that if a DH can't handle a woman with a brain, then you are really , really sad.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:03 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
"When you are married to a man who can handle a woman with a brain, you don't need to worry about his happiness." -- That's a horrible thing to say.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No kidding. Many of these women aren't the prizes they think they are (half-formed "brains" and all)
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I don't think that's what she was saying. I think she was saying that she doesn't need to be a doormat for her hubby to be happy.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You are reading the wrong post. The comment being responded to was: "when you are married to a man who can handle a woman with a brain, you don't need to worry about his happiness." That says nothing about doormats, and I still maintain it's a sad way to live.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]And, referring up to her original response, she says she responds to his feelings with a snide comeback, which I think is also sad.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Her DH asks her to change her name, and that's a reasonable request. She asks him to change his instead and that's a "snide comeback"? How so?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Because he really means it, and she doesn't. He makes a heartfelt statement that he wishes she had changed her name. In her post she does not at all indicate that she actually wanted him to change his. So her comeback was nothing more than mocking his feelings on the matter.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 02:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OR; I hate to be agreed with in such an obnoxious response. My point was, the above comment seems to punish men for being someone who "can handle a woman with a brain." Basically, being a decent, mature guy means your wife doesn't have to care about whether you're happy or not. That kind of sucks.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: In this case, I feel bad for the dh, but because the dw seems to respond to his deeply held feelings with snide dismissal. Of course if her desire to keep her name outweighs any inclination she might otherwise have to give him this thing he wants, that can be OK too, but she should at least acknowledge to him that she understands his feelings, but just can't do that particular thing.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
NP: How about, if he really loved her, he would respect her decision?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:04 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]How about, if she really loved him, she would feel it's important to make him happy, and at least take that seriously when deciding?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I feel like I'm missing something. Was there a whole discussion about how a woman was flippant about this despite her husband's seriousness on this issue? Because I can't tell why we're just generalizing that all woman should take DH's name, or if they don't they're not taking it seriously.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That's the problem with totally anonymous posting and this crappy thread/response system. However, I don't think anyone, even the obnoxious OP, in the pro-name-change camp is saying the dw must always take DH's name even if he doesn't care. The question is, if he does care should that matter. Some dws seem to believe the dh feelings should be irrelevant in the matter. The OP seems to believe that the dw feelings should be irrelevant. My view is that both should be relevent.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np and you're a fool. a happy marriage is not based on sublimation of self, on abnegation of one's own identity, and no "connection" which is created by the changing of a name has any meaning whatsoever. my dh had no problem with the fact that i didn't change my name ... and we've been happily married for well over 10 years. connection and meaning comes from building a life together, from respect, from humor and patience, from shared values and memories NOT a shared name. fwiw, i know way more divorced women who took their dh's name than the reverse.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]For you, the shared name is not meaningful. That's fine. But if a person feels that a shared name creates a connection, then who are you to say that's not valid? The OP is intentionally obnoxious about this topic, but I think you also go overboard, though less obnoxiously, the other way.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Nice!! Do I get to deride all the things you think are important in your relationship with your dh? Or is that a one-way deal, reserved for you to deride what I find important? (btw, I'm not OP, who is an obnoxious twit)
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Get a grip. I live in Europe and everyone keeps their name. Even when I lived in Italy, in the most Catholic conservative part of Tuscany, elderly women retained their names. My husband's 94 year old Grandmother just passed away and the first thing I noticed was her hyphenated name.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If you're somewhere everyone keeps their name, then the issue is irrelevant. The entire issue is context-specific. Your comparison is therefore meaningless, except as a general critique of our culture (which is fine, but not the point of the OP)
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 02:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You do know that the whole name-changing thing was to show that the woman was the property of the man, right? So to insist that you change your name, your husband is saying that you are his property. Are you OK with that? I'm not property. I'm a person. Dunno about you.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
agree with first part. i don't get why women are so resistant to changing their name. it's simple if everyone has the same name and it also puts an extra bond that's hard to break. never seen someone refuse to take care of their mil tho
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Bond that's hard 2 break? RU Kidding?
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL, ITA with you. Big eye roll here.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]And big divorce papers coming your way!
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]oooh, I'm shaking.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i'll start by saying i changed my name and it's certainly more convenient for me now w kids. but i get why women are resistant - why should they be the ones to have to take on a new name for the sake of simplicity or convenience? if you think smae last name is impt, by all means go for it, but it's not for everyone. in many countries in europe, women don't change their names anymore. it's the new norm and no one cares.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm Korean and the Korean tradition is for Korean women to keep their names. Is THAT selfish? Same in Latin countries. And in many Latin culture it is the tradition for children to receive BOTH parents' last names. Is that selfish? I think of my husband and his family every day and love them like my own family. What in the world does it matter that I have my own name? They never for a minute have thought anything of it. The question of changing my name or not has not once come up, and we've been married for 13 years (together for 16). And what's it to you, anyway?
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not the op, and I think the op was being intentionally inflammatory, but, to be fair, I think the op's comments only apply in the context of a culture where name-changing is a tradition. There maybe other traditions in other places that could be analogous and could raise analogous disputes -- for example, if in a particular culture there were a tradition for women to cut hair short when married, I could see modern women rejecting that, and then a similar argument to this one erupting.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]in greece, the tradition WAS that women change their name. our generation is the first not to do it and there's almost no argument about it. none of the women i know under 40-45 have changed their names. so it's not always true.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:05 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't think I get the point here -- if the culture as a whole has changed, then the history that X used to be a tradition isn't as relevant to the current discussion. My point is, the OP's point only applies where the general culture follows a certain practice, and it's unfair to bring in as counterexamples other cultures where that practice does not apply.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]aaaaand what has happened to the divorce rate in greece?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I had a friend at work whose parents changed their names (both the mom and the dad) because it was important to have the same name. Anything short of that is an unnecessary imposition on the person changing their name. Some women don't mind the imposition, some do.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 09:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]You have no idea how easy it was to change my name back after my divorce. Seriously, the name thing was the last of my concerns when deciding to divorce. You are dumb.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm infinitely less selfish than my DH. I did not change my name, but I have not put any pressure on him to change his or made him feel badly about not changing mine. I would care for my widowed mil as much and more than my DH would care for his. In almost every respect, I do more for us than I expect him to do for me. So I'm the unselfish one. I do however think that DH and I are equals in this relationship. Since you obviously do not, you consider me all kinds of selfish.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 08:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]My dh's last name comes from his mom who hates me. We have had no connection to her since we got married. However, it was really important for him for me to change to his last name, even though I loved my classic sounding name. Since it was so important and made me feel more connected I did it and I'm not at all feeling like I've lost my identity. A name is just a name after all, things are meant to change throughout your life. I love my husband more than my last name.
[ Reply | Options ]02.12.09, 11:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]No kidding. Many of these women don't understand that. They think their name symbolizes their IDENTITY, their sense of BEING. Pathetic bullshit.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why are you so angry about other women's decisions?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Go back to 1952 where you belong. WOmen like you make me sad. Your thinking is shallow and lacks depth and nuance. My DH would find you to be pathetic. Not all men want what you are selling, dear.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 04:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]dh and I have one of the healthiest marriages I know of and he could not care less that I wanted to keep my name. It shouldn't matter, and I certainly don't think I'd feel "more married" if I did change it (in response to poster below). I also would not lose weight for him, dye my hair for him, keep my hair long for him or any of the other idiotic things insecure men are able to get their insecure wives to do.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 05:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You had me with you until that last sentence, which just made me sad. What's so terrible about spouses doing things their spouses would like? If my wife wanted me to grow a beard, or stop wearing a beard, or grow my hair long (what's left of it) and put it in a pony tail, I would -- unless some othe major factor outweighed that, such as risk of losing my job. If she wanted me to lose weight, I would certainly try, though it's a different category since unlike hair and names, it's not certain you can succeed if you decide to do it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's women like her that annoy me. They think marriage is just a piece of paper. That they can do exactly what they did before and take no input from spouse. Marriage is a PARTNERSHIP.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I'm a lawyer and have helped clients create a ton of business partnerships. And you know what? They are all different. And there is no one set of characteristics that makes one more or less successful than another - it's about whether or not the partners are able to come up with a relationship that works for them (which may be different than the relationship that works for another group). I don't see marriage any different - what works for you might not work for someone else, and there is nothing wrong with that.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What explains the fact that divorce rates in America and Europe are the highest in the world? Clearly something is not "working" and I'm positive it's the selfishness.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Maybe it's the pigheadness of people that are so wrapped up in what is "traditional" that they can't structure a life that works for them?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Nope, traditional marriages work out a lot more often. It's the selfishness.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
(DH that would grow a beard here): I agree. What I found upsetting was this blanket declaration the OR made that she basically would not do anything to make her husband happy, even something as simple as hairstyle. It just struck me as a sad way to live.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:50 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think the OR wasn't talking about herself, but about the *type* of woman that is so invested in keeping her DH that she abandons her whole sense of herself to the process. Which is, IMO, an equally sad way to live.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NO, she very specifically said she would not dye her hair, grow it long, or lose weight for her husband. That's exactly what she said, and she was not talking about a category of self-abandoning-women. She basically said won't do anything of that type for the purpose of pleasing her husband. That's sad to me.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't disagree with the general concept that spouses ought to be willing to make some compromises to make each other happy, but in reality, when you start talking about women and physical appearance, that becomes a loaded thing. It's not as simple as "I grew a beard because she wanted me to." Often there is an income difference that affects the balance of power in the relationship and it becomes "I lost twenty pounds and died my hair blond because I'm afraid he's going to leave me for a younger woman if I don't keep him happy."
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You're loading all that freight in there, and it's not what she said, and I don't think it's what she meant -- I am giving her the credit of assuming she was as straightforward as she appears to be: "Honey, I love it when your hair is long." "NO!!!". "Sorry honey, I was being idiotic asking for that." If you want to get into implied threats and all that, then fine we can do that, but that's a new discussion.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If you need to change your name to feel "more married" to your DH then you have serious problems -- how "married" or "connected" you feel depends on a heck of a lot more than having the same last name.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 06:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Do you also have separate checking accounts? Your marriage is more of a partnership.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Isn't it supposed to be?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't understand the question. What does checking accounts have to do with anything? FWIW we have both a joint account and our own accounts. Yes, my marriage is a partnership -- was that supposed to be a pejorative?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You will never understand.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thank God for that. Shocking for a woman to have her own bank account in 2009, isn't it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: OK, I was really asking because I don't know what a checking account has to do with anything, or why a parternship is a pejorative. No need to be snippy.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
No, she won't. They'll use the joint account for kids' and household expenses and then finance their extramarital affairs with their personal accounts
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look, I have an advanced degree, I make six figures, and I manage a whole unit of people. I have a separate checking account because I don't believe in making my husband pay for my clothes or stuff that I like to buy that are just for me, not because of my extramatrial affairs. Why do you ladies come from? Women can't have anything that are just their own -- and if they do they're getting divorced??
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why do you believe having a joint account is like making your husband "pay" for stuff? Don't you have the type of relationship where you can say - I need an expensive suit for a big upcoming meeting, etc.? And by the way, because your husband makes less than you, do you force him to buy clothes and stuff at "his" income level?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL my husband makes almost three times what I do, but thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]You didn't answer my first question. You don't have the relationship where you can say, I want this money for XYZ, maybe discuss it a little if it's an expensive thing, and then compromise?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:43 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh, of course we do, for household things. Like if I wanted a new sofa and he didn't, we'd sit down and talk about it. But if I want to go to Sephora and buy a new expensive face cream, I use my own money.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why??? Is what I'm asking. Why can't you just TELL him you're going to Sephora, or even tell him AFTER the fact? This whole "keeping an aspect of my life separate" just makes it easier to divorce when the going gets a little rough.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]But why should he partially pay for something only I'll enjoy? I don't get it, I'm just trying to be fair. It's like a couple of thousand dollars.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Damn, you illustrated my point. Once you get married, you are supposed to be TOGETHER FOR LIFE. Your money is his money and his money is your money. If you approach finances with any other mindset you are already mentally setting yourself up for a divorce.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My puny $2000 checking account is setting me up for a divorce? I can't have a little spending cash for a spa treatment for myself?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: Deviating, in any way, from the way the OP choses to live her life is setting yourself up for divorce. Haven't you gotten that by now?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ooohhhh... now I get it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: Wait, so you're saying instead of having a little pocket money that's just your own, you should buy expensive face cream and tell DH after the fact?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: Sure, if you feel like it. If your finances are in great shape, then probably no need to mention it. Do you really not understand the concept of sharing money with DH?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: Yes, I do we have a joint account. I just don't understand (I give up, really) why I'm doomed for divorce if I am $2000 in my name only and I use it to buy things that I don't think he should have to pay for since they're for my enjoyment only. I mean, whatever, lots of my friends have joint accounts only, and I don't care. I just don't see how a couple of grand is setting me up to fail. And I thought I was being fair.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Why did you get married? You don't sound religious so that probably is not the reason. Why not just live together.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look, we have a joint account that we use to pay for household expenses, kids, insurance, vacations, etc. We use our own accounts to buy stuff like clothes, feed my Sephora addiction, etc. Just because I have a couple of thousand dollars in an account that's all mine it means I didn't need to bother to get married?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Hopefully all women have their own checking account. I know far too many women (not me) whose husbands have emptied their joint checking and left them with nothing. How stupid would you feel if that happened to you and you had nothing stashed away? Same goes for credit cards. I wouldn't get a joint card ever. Not after seeing what happens when men go on a spending spree and leave their wives with the debt.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
"If you need to change your name to feel "more married" to your DH then you have serious problems " -- Why do you get to decide what makes other people feel more connected? Some dws feel wearing a wedding ring makes them feel "more married", and some feel very strongly that dh needs to also wear one, for the same reason. That's no more or less valid than the name thing.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OK, I could see how it came across that way. Still don't understand why I'm being ragged on for having my own bank account, though.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That particular ragging wasn't me. I'm the "the other spouse's feelings should matter" guy. I wonder how it would go over among the dw's here if someone made a similar type of post making the claim that husbands who don't want to wear rings are just trying to stay free to play the field, etc. I'm guessing they would say "yes, not wanting to wear a wedding ring is a real danger sign." But that's just a guess. In any case, the OP's nasty tone made this thread a difficult one for real discussion.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree with you. I think this discussion is interesting, it's suddenly caused me to delurk to comment. Recently I saw on a morning talk show that a husband was saying every morning he'd bring his wife a cup of coffee in bed and he said if the roles were reversed it the woman would be accused of being a 50's housewife. I mean, the guy was spewing a whole bunch of other nonsense,but I found myself agreeing with at least that point.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think that's a good analogous example. Married people should do things for each other. Also, if it's something you wanted to do anyway, it's hardly special. It's only when you take the other's desires seriously enough that you try to fulfil them even though they would not otherwise have been your own desires that you are truly being giving. That doesn't mean you have to do this 100% of the time. But a husband who gets tickets for him and his wife to go to a football game is not being generous; the one who gets tickets for him and his wife to go the latest chick flick is being very generous (assuming stereotypically gendered tastes).
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: Totally agree with you. And that's where many married people fail. They feel that they should never have to give something meaningful up for their spouse, and when something is asked of them, they bail.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
If the husband cares so much about having the same name and the wife doesn't, HE should be the one to change his name. Or he should just grow up and get over his insecurity.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]That would be "stupid" is the best argument the OP can come up with to explain her double standards.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Actually that wasn't me. Apparently some other people have consideration for others too.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Then you explain why it is selfish and evidence of the decline of Western civilization for a woman to want keep her name, and completely normal and understandable for a man to want to keep his.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Ever heard of a little thing called tradition? Why didn't you wear the tux on your wedding day and have dh wear the white gown?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Shockingly, some people get married without the white gown OR the tux, and don't immediately head down the path to hell.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]DH here: my sister was my best woman and i was her man of honor...are our marriages doomed b/c we ignored tradition?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: "If the husband cares so much about having the same name and the wife doesn't, HE should be the one to change his name. Or he should just grow up and get over his insecurity." OK. Whenever my wife asks for something from me because she is insecure about something, or wants to do something traditional that I don't want to, I'll remember to say "Stuff it! Do it yourself! Time to grow up and get over your insecurity!"
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
OP again: Yup, these replies confirm exactly what I'm talking about. Most of you women have no idea what it means to be selfless. It's all about you you you - YOUR identity, YOUR independence, YOUR freedom to go make out with whichever guys you want. No thought left over about what other people want. And by the way, changing your last name is in no way giving up your identity - unless you also feel that way about dyeing your hair or losing weight? Enjoy your impending divorce and take comfort in the fact that you're one of the reasons why America is going down the moral crapshoot.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 07:49 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't get this train of thought. DH DOESN'T CARE. How am I being selfish if he doesn't care whether I change it or not?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Read the original post. If he doesn't care than whatever; if he does, then is it a huge thing to give up?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I agree that's the original intention of the obnoxious post, but it's evolved into how women can't even have their own bank accounts and how any woman who declines to "give in" to her husband's wishes on anything is doomed for divorce.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Not the OP, and I repudiate OP's nasty tone and one-sidedness. BUT, I think the OP's point probably only applies to dws of dhs that do care about this. I agree with OP that dh's desires in this should be meaningful and given weight. The rhetoric on the non-changing side can be almost as extreme as the OPs ("It's none of his business", or a woman shouldn't "need to worry about his happiness"). I think both members of a marriage should care about each other's happiness and give due consideration to what the other wants.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What is WRONG with identity, independence and freedom? I think it is exactly the opposite of what you say - our society expects way too much selflessness from women and not enough from men. Why isn't the guy ever expected to change his name? Take care of his OWN widowed mother? Give up his career and financial independence for his family?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP: The guy IS expected to provide for his family - wake up early every day and go into work without complaining, all but two weeks of the year. That's pretty damn selfless. In contrast to women who get "tired" of working after 5 or 10 years and have the socially acceptable option of SAHM.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I provide for my OWN family, actually, and my DH is a SAHD. Which is how our "partnership" is set up. It works for us, I would NEVER dictate to someone else that they HAD to live their live that way, or insult them if they didn't. That is the difference between me and you.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Please don't act like you're the norm.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't think I am or have to be the "norm" - that was my whole point.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]So you disagree with the point that in general, men are expected to work for a living and are looked down upon if they don't, whereas women are given a pass? I don't know what planet you come from.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:40 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Planet Tolerance. You might want to try paying us a visit someday.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's not Earth at least. You are seriously delusional if you don't believe that it's MUCH less socially acceptable for the dh to give up the job to stay at home than it is for the dw.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:44 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't live my life according to what is "socially acceptable" nor do I expect every single person in the entire universe to life exactly the way I do. That was my point.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
^^^ I remember the post a little while ago about the Ivy League lawyer who wanted to quit and become a SAHM. Most responders were like "do what you want to do even if your husband doesn't like it" and very few appreciated the fact that the same option wouldn't be easily given for a dh.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You know, the divorce comment bothers me, because you are implying that a woman must be completely selfless in order to stay married. Can't marriage be about compromise? Can't I be selfish (your definition, not mine) but keeping my name but caring for him and DB?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, women do not have to be completely selfless. However, the last name issue comes up at the very beginning of a marriage and sets a tone for it. If he and his family beg and plead and you still don't listen, you're sending a message that changing your name (a very simple request) is more important to you than your dh and in-laws. And that IS selfish.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:31 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]And your DH is being equally selfish, and his family is sending a message that they will be overly involved in your life and basically you should get the hell out now!
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]What's wrong with in-laws being involved in your life? They can't have any opinion or give guidance on how to maintain the marriage, raise dc's, etc.? After all they're much older and more experienced than you. I bet you're one of those who complains about her mil at parties and makes snide remarks while dh is talking to her on the phone.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:38 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have a wonderful relationship with my MIL and she would never in a million years "beg and plead" me to change my name or do anything else. The fact that you think the women is the only person in the wrong in the scenario you describe says pretty much all that needs to be said about your view of the world.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]they should only give opinions or guidance when asked...doesn't sound like the wife would be seeking such counsel in your example...so what's wrong with it is that it's invasive & none of their damn business
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm the one who posted that my DH doesn't care. If he cared I honestly have to think about what I'd do... I probably would change it. Having said that, though, I do have to add that I don't consider it a simple request, so I could also see why some women may be reluctant. If it's just as important to DH as it is to you, why should the woman "give in"?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 08:41 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: why is it selfish of hte woman not to change andnot of the man to demand that change. and in laws should have no aprt of this decision. i have wonderful in laws, whom i would take into my home in a heartbeat and care for them and part of what makes them great is that they don't stick their nose into things that aren't their business
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
are you phyllis schlafly? or maybe sarah palin? wait, i know, you are rush limbaugh! your ideas crack me up, they are so dumb. i just asked my friend about a study -- more divorces among couples where women changed name! divorce rate higher in "traditional" arrangements where couples married at younger age! the older the couple, the less likely to divorce, and a far greater percentage of those intact marriages have women who did nt change name. ha ha ha ha ha!!! betcha you will be out on your bum when your husband ditches you for a more interesting and intact and smarter woman.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Was it your friend in your "head" who told you those facts? First of all, traditional marriage doesn't mean at a younger age; it just means both husband and wife care more about each other's well-being than preserving their so-called "independence." Second of all, not changing the last name is more common among couples who live together for a significant amount of time before they are married, and divorce rates are most definitely high among them because they feel a sense of transiency in their marriage, i.e. they feel that when they were living together they could break up and move out without many consequences, so why can't they do that even when they're married
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Why assume the OP is a woman? Did he/she self-identify?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: rush limbaugh is not a woman
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:54 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I was responding to: " betcha you will be out on your bum when your husband ditches you for a more interesting and intact and smarter woman". I had not been assuming the OP was female.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 10:00 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
What cracks me up is the women with big ass diamonds who talk about how changing their name is anti feminist and symbolic of an outdated paternal society.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 09:36 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If changing her last name is as important to her as it is important for him to have her change it - there should be a compromise. Why is her identity less significant?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oy, again with the IDENTITY. are you seriously saying your name represents all of your identity? like if you had to go into the witness protection program, you wouldn't be yourself anymore?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If a name represents NOTHING why is it so all-fired important to you that a woman take her husband's? Or so offensive to you that a man might decide to take his wife's?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]touche
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]If the man is fine with it, then great. But if the man would really like his wife to take his name so that the kids will also have it and there won't be any confusion (which is what is done traditionally), why would she have to refuse vehemently just because she's not willing to compromise some arbitrary sense of identity?
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]The kids can have the father's name regardless and in this day and age there's not likely to be a whole lot of confusion - lots of women don't change their names, plus people get divorced and remarried. So it really comes down to what the women wants vs. what the man wants and, protest all you want, there is no "right" answer to that conflict. I'm suspecting you are a man, which is why it is so easy for you to disparage the whole "identity" aspect of changing your name.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Wow. The double standard is amazing. I find it really funny that many people are posting that women are selfish. I'm a social scientist. If you look at time use data that are MANY more women (including those that did not change their name) spending precious time caring for children, and elderly inlaws. Men take much more time in leisure. To say women are the selfish ones is simply sexism.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Seeing how the posters above relate their name to their identity - yes I chose to phrase it that way. But if you rather me reword it how about: "Why should her choice be less significant?" For example Let's say she's the only child in her family with that last name and it meant a lot for her and her family that she keep her last name. I am merely stating that changing and keeping a last name can have equal importance. I can understand that it would be selfish if the wife didn't want to change her name and it meant far less to her than it did for her husband.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I can understand that, but many women I've met don't have that reason. They just don't want to "give in" to DH and in-laws and "let them pull the strings." They want to have it their way.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: I suspect it's the fact that your parents thought it was appropriate to get involved that caused this whole conflict. I changed my name because it was more important to DH than it was to me. But if I had busybody in-laws that thought they could tell me what to do, "having it my way" would have become significantly more important.
[ Reply | Options ]02.13.09, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
let's see. i changed my name bc my dh wanted me to and i was truly committed to our marriage. i also have done a lot to help his family. none of this stopped him from leaving me for an affair. what was your point again? oh, and now i have to deal with the pita of changing my name back, not to mention the humiliation of everyone knowing that i got dumped for a young bimbo.
[ Reply | Options ]02.14.09, 08:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] So conflicted about having an only child. DD is 4, we're great as we are, I am an onl... 15 replies
- (among friends and family) are really loving. I have only a 3-month-old dd now but I plan to give...but they are a lot younger- my sister is only 5 years older). I have three girls and...
- i am also an only and we went for #2; it does get crazy...torture yourself with some hypothetical view of what your child's future could be. You do not really know.... abusive behavior. so, in essence, i am an only child in adulthood. siblings don't always get...
Talk : : February 11, 2009
So conflicted about having an only child. DD is 4, we're great as we are, I am an only and happy, always just wanted one. Life is pretty insane, DH and I both work a lot, and feel like adding another child would tip the scales. But then I think that once DD is grown up we may regret it, she would enjoy a sibling when she is older. I know it's a really personal question, just curious about your perspectives.
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.11.09, 09:48 AM [ Flag ]btdt. We decided to stop at one. Once the decision was finally made, we were great with it.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am an only child and while I'm happy with my life, I always wished I had a sibling. It's probably because most sibling relationships I see (among friends and family) are really loving. I have only a 3-month-old dd now but I plan to give her a sibling in a year or two.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:51 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]like you i am a happy only, adn your child may well be too. i never wanted a sibling.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]This is where I was a year ago. We had surprise #2 a couple of months ago and it's really hard for me. Life has been turned upside down and is really stressful. HOWEVER, dc1 is beyond thrilled to have a sibling. So basically, the next couple of years are going to be a struggle, but it seems like it was worth it for the first to have a sibling. Personally though, I would have been very content with one, but fate had other plans :)
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:52 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i am also an only and we went for #2; it does get crazy but i think you just have to accept that esp. for the first 2 or three years life is NUTS. My dd is almost three and it gets easier everyday and she adores her big brother.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My sister is my best friend (my brothers- we talk but they are a lot younger- my sister is only 5 years older). I have three girls and the older two play so well together and do so much for each other. It is so cute and I can't imagine them not having each other.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]it sounds like your gut is telling you that stopping at one is the right thing, but you are second-guessing yourself and feeling a little guilty. I would listen to your gut.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 09:57 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]my dh is an only. his father is estranged, mother dead. not close to any cousins. he always wanted sibs. he still feels lonely, but better now that we have 3 dcs. have another.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:10 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]DD may end up like crazy octuplet mom if she is an only child.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:13 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: no kidding. apparently, only child + supportive middle class married parents = dysfunctional childhood. god knows what i'll do since i had to suffer through the same ordeal.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am PG with no. 2 and feel this way. Worried if we made right choice. For me the deciding factor is when my dad died I was very glad I had siblings. No one really knows what it is like to grow up with your parents except your sibs.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]not everyone enjoys their siblings when they get older. Some siblings are a PITA. You need to do what works for your family now. Do not torture yourself with some hypothetical view of what your child's future could be. You do not really know.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 10:53 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My 2nd is 2 yos, and I still find it incredibly hard. We both work f/t. I often don't enjoy weekends. Sometimes I wonder if I bit off more than I can chew. Okay, I can handle it, but it does feel like quality of life has gone down. Sometimes I feel depressed. Now having said all of that, seeing my 2 dcs playing together is the best thing in the world. My oldest appreciated younger sibling instantly; it didn't wait until she was older. I love knowing that they will always have each other. And I keep my fingers crossed that it will get easier as time goes on.
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 11:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]fwiw - i have 2 sibs. both are addicts and i havne't spoken to them in ages...mainly because of their abusive behavior. so, in essence, i am an only child in adulthood. siblings don't always get along
[ Reply | Options ]02.11.09, 11:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I have three dcs and the youngest is 7. His brother and sister are in their early 20'... 6 replies
- he is growing up as an only child but that has positives and negatives. one of the usual...sib (and 13 years from oldest sib), and in many ways I did grow up as an only child - but there was nothing wrong with that...he's older. But, he and I were basically only children....
- ditto. my only sib is 7 yrs older, and i felt like an only when he left for college. we're much closer now (both in our 50s)...
Talk : : February 10, 2009
I have three dcs and the youngest is 7. His brother and sister are in their early 20's. DH and I had them early and then went for 3 in a burst of enthusiasm in our mid 40's. We're so happy with our lives but worry that even though the youngest is very close with his siblings that he'ss grow up effectively as an only child. What do you think?
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.10.09, 03:25 PM [ Flag ]he is growing up as an only child but that has positives and negatives. one of the usual negatives is being "alone" later in life when parents are gone and for him that won't be the case. however he still has the positives like getting attention, etc. plus the positives of having a larger family. win-win in many cases.
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 03:28 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're right - I did read that the main drawback many "onlies" felt was being alone later on. Thx!
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm 8 years younger than my next oldest sib (and 13 years from oldest sib), and in many ways I did grow up as an only child - but there was nothing wrong with that and lots of positives (parents had more money for education, travel, braces!, etc). But I still had/have the advantages of having siblings, so to me, it was the best of both worlds!
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 03:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's how I like to think of it. It's good to hear that from someone who grew up with older sibs.
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto. my only sib is 7 yrs older, and i felt like an only when he left for college. we're much closer now (both in our 50s) than when we were younger.
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Probably true. My brother and I are 11 yrs apart. When I left for college, he was starting first grade! When he graduated from high school, I was turning 30, had 2 kids and a mortgage. We're catching up in closeness now that he's older. But, he and I were basically only children.
[ Reply | Options ]02.10.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Help: Dc is very smart and wonderful in many ways. However, lacks empathy, egocentric... 51 replies
- Parent of only child here: 1) create situations where gratification is delayed; 2...have to try harder regarding the other stuff--with an only so much happens unconciously...
- is losing. I find this happens a lot with only children....
- no-i only meant "contributing factor" because I was trying to present...
Talk : : February 09, 2009
Help: Dc is very smart and wonderful in many ways. However, lacks empathy, egocentric (not a jerk or arrogant but very me me me), often oblivious to other people feelings/perspective and point of view. Contributing factors--only child. How do you teach empathy? Sensitivity?
51 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]02.09.09, 12:33 PM [ Flag ]How old?
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]stop giving him everything he wants and explain why. when he throws a fit, explain how it makes YOU feel, and on and on...
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]yeah, because turning everything back to you doesn't make you egocentric...hmmm
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you sound a little crazy. empathy is about understanding how others might feel. I guess OP has had trouble filling in Jr about putting himself in the place of others. so she should try to model it for him.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i do --
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
this isnt the situation anyway. there is no fit throwing. its more detachment and/or not very considerate
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]is someone being mean to this dc or fighting a lot around him?
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not at home
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so where?
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe at school but not anything out of the ordinary
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]detachment at that age is rarely a lack of empathy issue. something else is going on..
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
7 1/2.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:37 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Parent of only child here: 1) create situations where gratification is delayed; 2) refuse to be at dc's beck and call; 3) give responsibilities around the house and stick to it. Do not pay for chores. 4) make sure household does not revolve around dc, e.g., don't let dc also choose what music to listen to--dc chooses, mom chooses, dad chooses. Take turns. With an only it is too easy to always give in where in other families dc constantly have to compromise or take turns. You have to manufacture these situations. 5) at age 7 who can be having conversations about empathy and sensitivity. 6) model empathy and sensitivity yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^also, involve dc in choosing a way to "help" in the community. Clean up a park, volunteer at soup kitchen or nursing home, etc.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks--yes we working on doing this
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
thanks for a helpful response: we do try with modelling. i guess we have to try harder regarding the other stuff--with an only so much happens unconciously.......
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe he is autistic? other than seeming detached what is your evidence that this is a problem of empathy?
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]not autistic-can sort of take or leave people. ignores people when they are talking to him
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this post doesn't sound real. hard to believe you are actually the parent. I call fake!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what? why on earth would you say that--i am concerned and thought i might get some helpful feedback..
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you do not sound like someone who has empathy for the dc you describe. You don't even sound like you know him all that well which makes me think you have observed another dc and you are trying to get explanations here for your observations. either you are the mean teacher to whom the dc is not responding out of fear, or you are a mean mom thinking your df's kid isn't nice, or doesn't have empathy. But you do not sound like the parent.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: she's busted!!! ITA!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnp: agree. this is not someone who likes this dc or knows him. seems pretty obvious to me too. what parent with a 7 yo would be asking a question like this in this way? seems very odd.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: sounds legit to me, mostly because I can completely relate. Some kids are more self-absorbed than others.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]she isn't describing a kid being self absorbed.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]another nnp: agree she sounds legit, bc I'm another mom of an only (5.5) who is really self-absorbed and not as empathetic as his peers. not autistic, just really high opinion of himself. yes i know a lot of this is my fault.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 09:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
my dc was like this with a teacher who picked on him. he did not seem himself, and would turn away from her when she spoke to him. she was psychologically torturing the kid, and he seemed tuned out around her. I would be worried about this ,OP, if your dc started doing this recently.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: similar situation here. teacher would have described our dc this way. totally out of sync with our dc, saw nothing postive and yelled a lot. as a result our dc shut down completely at school and acted out with her. total nightmare that eventually was over. we moved to another school after 1st grade and dc became himself again.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 01:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]where did you go?
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]meeting...
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]got off the w/l at Hunter. whew!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:27 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
the truth is that he has been like this since he was little. we have always had issues with teachers and coaches.......he tunes people out and ignores them. If kids arent playing something the way he likes he will remove himself from the group and do his own thing --which is most of the time
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]doesn't sound like a lack of empathy. sounds like he marches to the beat of his own drummer though.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]agree. sounds like a dc with a high need for independence people like that cannot stand to be imposed on by the outside world. in the extreme they become loners. in moderate amounts, they are leaders or make their own paths...think Einstein. Not everyone is a team player. I think it can be a good thing fwiw.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks--the positive side!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
sorry its my child.............
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]if you are the mother, I feel bad for your dc. you do not seem to like or understand him. the problem you describe does not seem to be one of empathy.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 08:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
omg. the mean mom/mean teacher conspiracy theorists have taken it to a new level. guess what? it's HER DC. guess what else? your little sh&thead is just that: a sh&thead. it's not the teacher and all the other mons ganging up, it's your unbelievabe a$$hole of a dc. deal.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 04:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]omg! I cannot believe how vulgar and vile you are. my dc was at a highly regarded nyc public with a very mean 1st grade teacher. his demeanor at school fit the OP's description during that year, but at no other time. He got into another school off the w/l and we left. the kid has been normal and happy ever since.. the teacher was later fired, btw. sometimes, just sometimes the kid is not a monster. you are the one with the problem. oh, and clean up your language. you sound revolting and extremely angry.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 04:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^^and yes, in case you are wondering, I am still a bit traumatized by the experience.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 04:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what is with some of these people! i am glad your child is in a good place now!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 04:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I know. Two adults, one child. Always an adult to "be there" for the dc. One of things we started doing was creating times when neither dh nor I are "available" even when we are both in the apartment. Took awhile, but dc now understands he can't always demand one of our attentions.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i need to work on that--i admit
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ITTTTA on this advice.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Some of the most empathetic people I know are only children. I don't think that is part of it. And, by the same token, some of the least empathetic ones are not onlies.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Don't let him quit games just because he is losing. I find this happens a lot with only children.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 12:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Honestly, I have 2 dcs and one is totally empathic while the other one is not. They are this way from a very young age, I think it is more a nature than a nurture issue. They are now teens and continue to be this way.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 02:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks-he has always been this way
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Please ... I feel for you, but don't list his being an only child as a "contributing factor" to his lack of empathy ... I am an only and really think I am very empathetic, always have been ... in fact, maybe especially tuned in to other kids because I was alone so much of the time ...
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 02:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no-i only meant "contributing factor" because I was trying to present as full a picture as possible.
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Parent of a very empathetic only here -- I agree that a lot of it just comes with the package. That said (and this may sound counterintuitive) I've always gone out of my way to praise good behavior, consideration, and empathy when it occurs; also to point it out in others. Also might help to spend some time around younger kids -- my daugher was tending toward spoiled partly because of always being the youngest and cutest, and made remarkable progress towards becoming a nicer person when she was around a younger kid one summer. Good luck!
[ Reply | Options ]02.09.09, 03:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] How do I tell my unmarried sister, having her 2nd child with a different father, that... 90 replies
- make it clear that this is not a path we support for her. MY dh is an only child so there aren't any female rolemodels on...if your girl does decide that she wants a child without a husband your maternal instinct will overpower this...my under-aged daughter became pregnant abortion would be her only option. If she is over 18 then it her...but petty and mean demonstration of your disapproval will only have negative and counterproductive effects. If you really want...
Talk : : August 16, 2008
How do I tell my unmarried sister, having her 2nd child with a different father, that, not only will I not throw her a baby shower, but I won't be attending if someone else throws her one?
90 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]08.16.08, 06:43 PM [ Flagged ]you don't. why are you so judgmental?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 06:45 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]So far all the women in my family (including my 18yo & 21yo nieces) have have had children out of wedlock in not good situations and that's not a choice I want my 5yo daughter to think I condone.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 06:51 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np, your five year old daughter doesn't care, unless you make her. five is a little young for the moral lesson. And be very careful of the other lessons you might be teaching her unexpectedly while harping on this one... might come back and bite you one day
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 06:53 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]She does care and has been asking why this person and that person aren't mrried and why my nieces dc have different fathers. She call's my sister oldest dc's father uncle Joe, I do not want her calling everyman my sister decides to have a baby with uncle.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what's wrong with that? Many cultures use Uncle and Auntie as terms of respect
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:19 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Not my culture. Anyway the list of non-related uncles is getting too long.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:36 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]"Not in my culture". I can only imagine what that means....
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:24 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Do you want your 5 year old to know you condone being rude to your own family members?
[ Reply | Options ]10.11.08, 10:23 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
you say nothing. do as you please, but no need to make a declaration in advance
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 06:49 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Good idea, thanks.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 06:52 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
gee whiz, how many sisters have you got that you can just throw this one and her family away?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:26 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Who said anything about throwing her or her family away. I just don't want to give or go to a party that celebrates her having yet another child out of wedlock with a father that's not going to be around in a year.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np: So you can't buy an outfit for your niece/nephew and raise a glass to them? That much would kill you?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:42 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I have no problem buying a gift for the baby after it gets here but I will not be going to a celebration for my sister having another child out of wedlock.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:45 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]why does "put of wedlock" matter so much to you?
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 07:45 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
You don't. You either decline the invitation, or you act like a decent sister and show up with a thoughtful gift in tow.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:39 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]your sister is having this child, are you going to ignore it after it's born too?? this is the first time I find a reason to call someone out on UB. no one is forcing you to put yourself out in any way, what a selfish person you are.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 07:54 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I'mbe asked to throw the shower, so yes I am being ask to put myself out.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:22 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]^^^I'm being
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:23 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]well you can hurt her feelings b/c you don't feel like throwing a party. but i was more referring to the fact that you don't want to show up at all. i think it's incredibly short-sighted and judgmental of you, not to mention none of your business how your sister chooses to live her life. what i meant was throwing a party is not contributing to childcare or something along those lines. you aren't responsible for the child, but he/she will be your niece/nephew - do you really want bad will just b/c your sister is not married? what is it to you in the end?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 09:22 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]You're correct in that it's none of my business how my sister chooses tolive her life, but the influences I allow into my own childrens life is my business. And I don't want my daughter to see me celebrating a lifestyle that I would not support her in. When the baby gets here I will have no problems loving it, providing childcare as needed or just being an loving aunt. After all the circumstances of the child's birth are not it's fault. However I've decided that I will not throw a shower or attend one. This is not out of left-field since I haven't attended any of the 3 showers my unmarried nieces have had for the same reason and I didn't let my sister attend either. I went to my sister's first shower as a show of support, but I didn't have my dd at the time.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:02 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
I totally understand how you feel, OP, and I don't think you have to throw you sister a shower. Most people around here are against second showers anyway. However, if someone throws her a shower, you have to go, or expect to have a rocky relationship with your sister thereafter. Is making a stand worth that to you? I am sure she knows how you feel, and I hear what you're saying about your daughter, but honestly, there is another time for the lesson. She will get it as she gets older. (I have a cousin born out of wedlock and didn't quite get it at 5, but as I got older I did, and believe me, my mom and dad made it very clear on the order of things -- college, grad school, marriage, then children.) Good luck!
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]really? and did you have any time or desire to pursue anything else? if so were you even young enough to have children naturally? GL!
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:03 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Misspost?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:05 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Stupid post more likely.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:29 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]not a miss-post. your parents outlined your life for you in a very strict way and i was wondering if you had any adventures at all with that rigorous schedule. g_d forbid you got married in between college and grad school, that would screw everything up!! or heaven forbid did something else in between?? there's never a "perfect" time to have children, and grad school may not be the most time-intensive time of your career, depending on your field.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 09:29 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Actually, I did have many wonderful adventures, lived overseas, tried my hand at an untraditional career -- went to grad school of my choice rather than law school as my parents would have liked, etc. I am very happy with my decision to wait to have children, and you know that most people on this board get up on their high horses all the time about being older mother (which actually I am not, had first db at 32) and having had the chance to finish education, travel and have fun. I couldn't have planned my life better, and my parents were right! You can disagree if you want, but I do not fault OP for wanting her kid to things in that order. It's not necessarily better, but it can certainly be easier. You tell me that OP's sister doesn't wish she had one of her baby's fathers around. You think that wouldn't make life easier for her? Please.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:50 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]you are both ignorant and illiterate, even though you say you have gone to grad school. why impose that very strict order on others? that order has nothing to do with being married while having children, you go much further than that. and how many people actually go to grad school? how do you know when you'll actually meet the right person? how do you know what other opportunities, besides this very strict order you've followed yourself, will present themselves? what if someone wanted to WORK before grad school? certainly a legitimate choice...and even get married then? hmmm, maybe you need to get out of your circle and family a bit more and see the world.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 04:13 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Ad hominem. I see no evidence of ignorance nor illiteracy here. As for "imposing" one's order, I see no policy of force; merely free people living life. If by "imposing" you mean excercising one's moral judgement by condemning a decision to have a child out of wedlock as "bad" (as is one's right) then the above writer is as guilty as the one they purport to hang. If one sports an ethic of non-judgementalism, then, in compliance to that doctrine, one may not judge those who do choose to exercise different moral discernment as a matter of course. I say "bravo" to good timely and wise decsions being made and the discipline to carry them out. Let's not be too quick to applaud folly.
[ Reply | Options ]10.11.08, 09:11 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Thank you for understanding. I really feel like I do have to maka stand because NONE of the women in my family are married OR in commited relationships and the all have babies. My 5yo is starting to ask about this and I have to make it clear that this is not a path we support for her. MY dh is an only child so there aren't any female rolemodels on his side. I just really don't want my dd following the path my sister, and nieces are on. And I really feel like something has to be done besides talking about it.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:29 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]i responded above about your selfishness. i understand your intentions for your daughter, but this isn't the way to set an example for her. and really she will learn by example, your home vs. their's.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 09:37 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I would love to think that was true but the reality is different. I raised my oldest niece from 9-18 and made it plan to her that if she got pregnant before 18 and I knew about it she would NOT be having that baby. My dh and I also paid for 3yrs of college out of pocket where she got pregnant in her jr year and dropped out. it's not a coincidence that my sister and all my nieces friends have babies ut of wedlock. As I stated in my OP every single female blood relative in my immediate family and all my nieces except the 3yo have had babies out of wedlock. Someone has to break the cycle and someone has to take a stand. I'm taking a stand for my dd. I will not be seen celebrating any more unwed births.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]i feel sorry you're in this position, but I don't think your daughter is going to make major life decisions based on whether you throw or attend a shower for your unmarried sister. all it will do is demonstrate meanness to your dd. when she is older, and as she grows up she will see the difference in the home environment - if there is one - between yours and your sister's. don't blame yourself for your niece's choices. it sounds like there are a whole host of things going on besides just your sister having children out of wedlock. you can always talk about the decisions people make and how it affects their lives as your daughter grows up. she should SEE it plainly in front of her based on the lives of all of the women in your family, besides you.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:36 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I don't think the other posters fully understand your situation. I completely understand your feelings of urgency on this issue, but really this has more to do with your daughter and your raising of her, then with your sister. I maintain that if you blow off her shower, it will do more damage to your relationship with your sister than make a point to your daughter. You could go to the shower and not take dd -- that's what I would do. Also, your daughter surely will see as another poster said the difference in your household and those others around her. She may also see how much more difficult things may be for her cousins. My cousin who was born out of wedlock to this day has a much tougher time than his sisters who born when his dad got married. Sad really.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:00 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Thank you for trying to see my side. I thought about going to the shower without my dd, but this is as much about me as her. As I stated previously I didn't attend any of my nieces' showers for the same reason and got my sister not to attend either. Why do the rules now change for her. Also I thought seeing a better way of life would work for my oldest niece and it didn't. Maybe you didn't grow up with family close buy, but cousins can be a very strong peer group. And for my daughter, these are her consistent female role models.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:15 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If you feel that is what you need to to do to make the point to your daughter, then do it. I am actually surprised that people are acting so open-minded about this issue when normally they make quite stink about moms with kids with diff't daddies and that sort of thing. I don't know if you are a minority or not, but since I am, I think my parents were so "controlling" -- not that I saw it that way and I actually REALLY appreciate the guidance -- because we are a minority which is often viewed in a certain way. I agree with you that when you are surrounded by certain influences, you have to have to be even more rigid and work extra hard to counter those influences. (And I grew up middle class not directly surrounded by those influences.) My point being that you are right and even if these ladies don't understand, I hear what you're saying and you be the best mom that you can to your daughter!
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 03:22 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Excuse yourself!-" I raised my oldest niece from 9-18 and made it plan to her that if she got pregnant before 18 and I knew about it she would NOT be having that baby." What were you going to do; Force her to have a D&C? That may seem like a cool, hard line statement but it sounds like a truly disturbing threat. Will you be leveling this kind of 'rearing' on your own children-or only the ones unfortunate enough to be borne of other people, that you got stuck 'raising'?
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:25 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]and OP- Throwing a shower isn't something you are obligated to do-for anyone-BUT you don't need to wield your disapproval of her choices as a weapon meant to bash her over the head. Why don't you simply tell your sister you don't want to attend because it morally irks you? OR just go and bring blessings; If you can't manage that, it's time to begin your utter disengagement. You'll miss her and her children; You will be sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:35 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Here's exactly how that conversation went. I have no illusions that I can control whether or not you are having sex, so if you decide that you are mature enough to make that decision I would hope that you are also mature enough to come to me so that we can discuss it and if needed, get you adequate birth control. Just know that you will not have a baby at under 18yo on my watch. And before any of you know-it all friends tell you differently. We both have passports and I have a credit card. You will be someplace in Romania and they're not going to ask if YOU want an abortion, they're going to ask if I have $500 US. My dd has already overheard a this several times, and I've tried to explain it on her level.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:53 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]There is no way it was ever 'appropriate' for that to be discussed when there was any chance of being overheard' by a 5 yr old. There is no other reason to pretend that a 5 yr old can comprehend such a horrifying topic/viewpoint, except that you want to start hammering into her, what she may not become. You are a sick and weak person to take your personal beliefs and values and teach them in this way and at this young age. Kids are brilliant, sensitive and observant; she can see you...
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:46 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yep! Just as I thought...
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:18 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
don't hate your family
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:44 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I love my family, but hate quite a few of the bad choices they've made.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 08:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]DIFFERENT choices. Control-freak.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:21 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
When you say this is a lifestyle you would not support for your dd, what do you mean? If she did become pregnant out of wed lock do you mean to say that you would not throw HER a shower and celebrate your grandchild? I respect that everyone has an opinion about wheather or not its is "ok" to be un-married and have children, but do you worry that by taking such a hard line view on this you may alienate your dd from her aunts? Do you worry that perhaps you may be sending the message that there is ONLY one way to have a loving family and that she may then judge negativley otherwise lovely human beings who simply choose a different lifestyle?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]The shower is a celebration of the mother and yes if my dd were to become pregnant out of wedlock I would not throw her a shower, I would not attend and I would not let any of my friends attend. I'm not worried about my daughter thinking that there's only one way to have a loving family since we have eveidence to the contrary all around us. We have friends that are gay families, blended families and we are an inter-racial family. The difference is that these people have created families. They are not breeding indiscriminately as the women in my family seem to be doing.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Man. I truly feel sorry for your daughter. My guess is that you will mature a bit over time and that if your girl does decide that she wants a child without a husband your maternal instinct will overpower this rigidity. As a parent of much older kids I can tell you that the more you try to make your kids choices for them the more they will defy your plans. If you live your ethics then your child will internalize them and, when free to make her own choices, most likely replicate most of the mores of her family of origin.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 11:05 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np: by the same token, I think it's also easier to be "understanding" and less rigid with other people's children than with the reality of one's own.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:55 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Op-Exactly. It's easy to be tolerant when you don't have to live with the reprecussions.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:16 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]How are YOU living with the repercussions? Does the existence of bastard children upset your lily-white world?
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:26 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What makes you think my world is "lily-white". And I've already raised one of those "bastard children". My own children get very little quality time with my mother because she's exhausted from spending so much time baby-sitting for free for her other grand-children and great grand-children, because they can't afford childcare. We have spent hours in court with one niece because of child-custody disputes. Yes I have to live with the reprecussions of their choices.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:02 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]No you don't. You chose to 'raise' one of those 'bastard children'. Do you think your 'reward' should be the perfect world, where all people conform to your rather limited code of ethics?
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:57 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Where did you see me asking anyone to condone to my ethics. I merely wish to not be expected to celebrate a lifestyle that is not consistent with my values.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Then stay out of her life, unless you choose to maintain contact in order that your children may have a living model of what you would consider a failed individual . btw The word was conform, not condone.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:16 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]That might work for your family but my sister and I are quite close and will remain so. I do not think of her as a "failed individual" whatever that is. I''m not asking anyone to "conform" to my "code of ethics" rather I'm asking not to to be asked to actively celebrate their lifestyle choices which are at odds with my "code of ethics".
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:36 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Tolerant is about holding your nose without throwing up,passing out or falling down dead; Acceptance is a whole other demeanor. Life happens; what if your birth control failed-or a host of other things wrecked your otherwise well-laid plans? I agree with the poster above,who said you'll likely mature into a more accepting person,as you gain years. If you don't know it yet, you're giving your own child some pretty specific expectations to rebel against. It may be more positive to carry the baggage you took on by choice-on your own-rather than witlessly dumping it on a very young girl. A positive role model will trump a skipping record of a lecture any day.
[ Reply | Options ]10.11.08, 10:38 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Never heard of anybody throwing a shower for the second birth. In any case, tell her you can't host and decline the invitation to anything another person hosts. Then be prepared to have a crappy relationship with your sister and her children for the rest of your life.
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 10:54 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np EXACTLY. Even based on traditional etiquette (one shower per mom), she doesn't have to go. I'd be busy.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:01 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
this is nto a flame at all, but out of curiosity, do you believe in abortion? If your dd became unexpectantly preg and was not married, would you rather she terminate? Or if she was at a stage in her life where she wanted children but not necissarily a marriage, would you support other forms like sperrm donor etc? What if she were in a long term, commited, live in relationship for many years and became preg and decided to have the child even though she was not married to the father? Or if she grows to perhaps not believe in the "institution of marriage"? I'm just thinking because i have two lovely, committed people i know who have been together for nearly 10 yrs who have just had a db and they have no desire to wed at all, they believe it to be antiquated and not necessary for their fam because they know they are together and committed. Would you support a union like that or is the existence of a liscence an absolute must?
[ Reply | Options ]08.16.08, 11:52 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yes I do believe in abortion and if my under-aged daughter became pregnant abortion would be her only option. If she is over 18 then it her choice, but then she would have to support itin every way. She wouldn't be allowed to live in our home we would not support he financially we would not continue to pay for her education. And trust me that conversation is happenning now while she's 5 not waiting for her to be 15. I had the same discussion with my oldest niece who had several cousins on her mother's side get pregnant as young as 14yo. And the theme of her 18th birthday party was "18 Not Pregnant!". As an adult I would respect her choices. However there's a big difference between a 20yo having a baby with her boyfriend and a 37yo having a baby with a sperm donor.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:08 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np OK. When my 6 1/2 yo has asked about where babies come from, I've been very honest with her. But I think it's BIZARRE that you're reading a *5 yo* the riot act about what would happen if she became pg as a teen.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:09 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]she's a freak
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 04:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I am not reading her the riot act. At this age I'm letting her know what we expect from her. Go to college, go to China(travel), get a job, get married, get your own home, have a baby in that order. When she pretends she has a baby I oohhh and ahh over it and ask where do you live? Oh no, if you have a baby that means you're a big girl and big girls with babies don't live with their mommies, the way that we don't live with g'ma. When she comes home from school and says that so & so is her boyfriend, I ask "Does he have a job?". Because if he doesn't have a job he can't buy all those nice little things you like and daddy isn't going to keep paying for them if you have a boyfriend.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
so much for choice. you would force your underage child to undergo an abortion. nice.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 03:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yes.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 07:45 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I call BS because this is clearly a form of child abuse and OP can be identified by the webmaster. Last time the Supreme Courts ruled-you weren't allowed to force someone to undergo this surgery.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Read the entire thread. I'm totally willing to take my dd out of the country where the supreme court has no authority. But you go ahead and have the webmaster track me and my currently 5yo dd down.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:13 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]They are our children not our dolls and this is the real world not your twisted little dollhouse. You really are living in a twilight zone and your child is living in a Hell you've self-righteously crafted. Her successes will be her own, as will her failures and poor choices; How sick you are to try to own any of it. As horrifying as you sound, I never implied that I was 'telling' the webmaster. You will out yourself in this world; these illnesses usually do get noticed. I think your sister is well rid of you, as your daughter will be-eventually. I will pray that you gain the enlightenment you are currently no seeking.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:30 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]not seeking.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:30 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I thank you for your prayers. I can tell you are anti-abortion, so we'll probably never see eye to eye. God bless.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:49 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Now you are making some terrible assumptions-it seems- based on my intended prayers. I've marched my ass off for women's rights to choose and will again; I've chosen to terminate a pregnancy and have lived on, knowing I made the right decision-for me. The affect you've put out here is of a very traumatized woman who is taking a negatively extreme approach to instilling important values. I would completely agree that it can be devastating to witness such a repetitive, arresting pattern; I do understand the serious, almost serialized program of failure that can be attributed to early, unplanned and single parenthood BUT this is the exact opposite approach to breaking the pattern. Please get help, so that you can discover ways to model and instill positive values that are lasting and not flowing from your own angst.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:09 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]and instill strong and positive values- in your own and your daughter's life-which come from the strength of optimism and not the weakening angst you seem to have endured in your family.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:13 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Sure. OK.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Are you being glib? because I'm sorry if I was pontificating. Honestly, can't you just let her be 5 and see all the good things coming out of her and her upcoming years? I read one reply on here regarding rebelion-that is really freaky true.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:29 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]btw I've committed professional and personal time, working on the Campaign to End Teen Pregnancy. Perhaps you should try to get some of the past magazine ads and save them for when she's a bit more mature; There really is no stopping young women when we focus more on their positive abilities and education and less on the pitfalls which await.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:35 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yes I was being glib. You didn't seem to be willing to see my life so I wasn't really willing to invest in your answer. I'm not happy about my decision, which is why I posted in the first place. But, what would you do if you saw EVERY female member of your family march down the same bad path. I'mnot just trying to save my dd but I think my family has been way to accepting of out of wedlock births and for the cycle to stop people need to confront so harsh realities. An Honestly if the worst thing that happeneds is that she doesn't get treated like princess for a day for having another out of wedlock baby is that so bad?
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:41 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]No, but if she needs stuff for the baby she can't afford-let a friend hook it up and make a registry list w/her. I'm really more reactive to the way you went w/the enforced abortion threats and the info that a 5 yr old overheard that-more than once. I'm Mama to a 5 yr old girl; she's massively bright, observant, intellectually sophisticated-the real deal-and we do have communication about love And sex but abortion? No, not yet. We try to really project possibilities and the freedom that come with autonomy and daily prepare her- for independence We chat about her plans and hopes and find ways to realize and emulate them in her life today. We foster her love of learning but have elaborated about conception-not necessarily contraception; it's tmi.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 12:01 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]not properly understood, no matter how bright they are. It's tmi.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 12:02 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]and I am sorry about all those girls; it's sad. I'd stick to being a positive role model though-she needs to form value judgements for herself. It's scary to think she may believe you'd take her or anyone somewhere and make them get an 'operation' if they make a mistake. 5 yrs old...
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 12:09 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Glad you aren't my sister. I can understand being reluctant to throw a second baby shower, but the holier-than-thou attitude is going will just ensure that you are going to alienate yourself from your family.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:17 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Teach your daughter to be tolerant of alternative lifestyles. If you avoid people who are different from you, she is going to grow up thinking that being biased is ok. I am sure that you can find a simple way to tell her that every one is free to choose how they live their life, but you expect her to get married before having kids.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 09:20 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]just don't offer to throw the shower, if she asks say you're sorry, but you just can't do it. then rsvp that you can't attend the shower. you don't need to make this a big confrontation.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 04:28 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Thanks, that what I've decided to do.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:25 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
You do realize that throwing a family member a shower is totally tacky. It is supposed to be given by a friend.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 08:16 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Here's another idea; Copy and forward your post and this thread to your sister. If she doesn't have internet access, just print it out and give it to her. That should put an end to, not only this problem but get her out of your disgusted and disapproving face-for good.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 10:54 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Nice trying to put words I never said into my mouth. My sister and I are close enough that me not attending her shower will not cause any permanent rifts, because the bottom line is that I'm always there for my sister and she is always there for me when it counts. I was there when she pushed her 1st db out. Just as she was there for me. AndIi'll be there when this baby enters the world and my every living day afterwards. I will not however, be at her shower.
[ Reply | Options ]08.17.08, 11:48 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]this is a very sad, sad post. my grandmother never had a shower for my mother b/c i was conceived before my parents married (but they were married well before the appropriate time for a shower.) I hear this now and feel nothing but rancor for my grandmother based on what my mother has told me. You are perpetuating ill will between you and your DAUGHTER, believe me. She will not respect this decision when she hears about it in the future. There are so many many ways she will learn that a baby out of wedlock, with no permanent father around, is a terrible choice in life. This SMALL but petty and mean demonstration of your disapproval will only have negative and counterproductive effects. If you really want to distance yourself and your daughter from your family, move away or stop babysitting for them if it's too much of a strain for you and your immediate family. This just seems like a petty, pointed display of meanness. Your sister will know why you're not there, but apparently she's so dependent on you she can't hold it against you. Shame on you for holding that over her. btw, I wondered about this thread and wondered if it was real, but you seem to yes, actually be a terribly delusional person.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 04:08 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Your response is more about you and your mother than it is about my situation. My sister is no more dependent upon me than I am upon her. Also my sister agreed with me about attending our nieces' showers because they weren't married, so this is not coming out of left field.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 01:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
I think showers for second (and subsequent) children are BS, unless it's been years and years and years, and the baby is a different sex. Otherwise, mom gets a shower for the first baby and that's it (married or not). Tell her that -- and skip the baby momma drama.
[ Reply | Options ]08.18.08, 08:08 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What?! Hasn't this baby come yet??This post is like a year old.
[ Reply | Options ]10.11.08, 10:39 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
[+] How do you respond to a younger ds who keeps asking "who do you love more?" I've bee... 15 replies
- lol. only in new york....
- You don't try and make him feel special, you explain that moms don't favor one child over the other and thats the end of that....
- If only I could drown you....
Talk : : August 11, 2008
How do you respond to a younger ds who keeps asking "who do you love more?" I've been saying all the "I love you both the same" stuff but clearly some thing is going on. What can I say or do to make him feel special. I am only child so I have very little grasp on what it feels like to share a parent with others.
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]08.11.08, 09:02 AM [ Flag ]try "i love you for who YOU are..." and list some wonderful traits that your ds has.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:09 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Tell him to stop being such an overly competitve bitch.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:12 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol, wrong but funny
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]true, but would you want to date a guy who keeps asking that?
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I used to say that mum and dad love is like bank accounts,we have a bank account for both my children and each has unlimited "funds". DD had a trillion "love dollars" and DS has a trillion "love dollars"..dd doesn't ask anymore, and now i leave little love bucks for her around the house and she helps make them for ds
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. only in new york.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:15 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
does he think hes adopted and his sibling isn't?
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:14 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No but he is two years younger than his big brother and very competitive. Wishes he could run as fast, be first, stronger, know things, etc. His older brother is no help as he enjoys his alpha male status and show major older sibling entitlement and bossiness.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]They both sound terrible. You should drown them or something.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]If only I could drown you.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'd let you do it too. You think somewtime who posts such hateful comments is really happy with themselves?
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You don't try and make him feel special, you explain that moms don't favor one child over the other and thats the end of that.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ouch.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There's a nice book called I Love You the Purplest, emphasizing how the mom loves both her sons equally, but for their differences. Maybe a little cheesy, but I think it's lovely and worth a look.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 09:48 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Lots of books cover this, like "I Love You the Purplest". Get from library...says it well.
[ Reply | Options ]08.11.08, 10:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I admit it: I am still annoyed/sad that my dc didn't get into school we wanted. It is... 157 replies
- This was a situation between traditional/proressive and fit. The child wasn't harmed (and in all honestly noticed less than...I mgiht use the word differently. And worrying about your childs "education" isn't going to accomplish anything. Worry is...
- your experience is not the only experiece and even you describe some attitude...
- work. She called the bonus questions. He was the only child to get them and loved them. No problem....
Talk : : August 09, 2008
I admit it: I am still annoyed/sad that my dc didn't get into school we wanted. It is so shocking, still, to us, and annoyingly, to the people around us. Waitlisted and called the admissions office as late as July! Pathetic, I know, but I can't help the feeling that if only we'd had the luxury of applying a few years ago, it might have been a different story. Hate my dc's option for this fall. Oh well.
157 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]08.09.08, 01:44 PM [ Flagged ]I'm sorry.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:50 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I'm sorry. Maybe the school he is going to will turn out to be great. This process s*cks.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]NP: I am sorry too, we don't live in NYC but I grew up there and it sounds like the whole thing gets more brutal every year. In the end, your dc is well loved and will be well educated and a happy kid who thrives. I promise in a year this will seem SO trivial!
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 10:08 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
It would not have been any different your dc is your dc and where dc is going is going to be great!
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:55 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yeah right
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]yeah right what? that is won't be great?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:03 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yeah it was never any different lady lighten up
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:13 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Of course it was -- get real
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:35 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I was here, I was going through it with dc #1 and incidentally it was when my mother did it with me, so really, wake up everyone wants to believe its harder now when they lose out. Just breathe, its K
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:37 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]So was I -- with a much older child. It was easier because there was more spots and fewer applicants. It's that simple.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:46 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Oh yawn, I cannot get into this discussion, it has always been impossible to get into the top 7 schools. End of story.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:50 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]OP: I didn't apply to the top 7 schools, fwiw
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:51 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]of course it's never been easy, but it has never been harder than this year. look at the census stats for dcs under five in the city and then do the math. instead of talking out of your butt. end of story.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:21 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]even the schools admit they have way more apps, more sibs, more legacies -- it's a nightmare here
[ Reply | Options ]01.21.09, 10:59 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I'm sorry you feel this badly, but why are you focusing? Besides, this whole idea that things were ever much better just isn't true.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What do you mean "why I am focusing?" We're talking about my dc's experiences for the next year or so (if not more). I think there are clearly differences among schools, and some are not as better for our kids as others. But we are not in a position to choose what is best for our kids. So it's a very frustrating process for parents/families who can't provide what they thought they could or should for their dcs.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:59 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I understand the frustration some people feel, and that you are feeling, what I am suggesting is that you stop focusing on it. Its over, its just school. Not everyone is going to be able to provide everything for their dcs and no one is entitled to this or that, But I bet you will provide many many wonderful things for your dc in the future
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:01 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Moving is an option. I'd rather my dc had a great educational experience and not hate school or get bullied.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 01:57 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]huh
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:04 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
You will get over it, its just school
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:06 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I know some people beleive that a particular school is the magic key to happiness for their child - but it is a Looooooooooooooooooooooong way from K to 12th grade. And there is no magic key to adluthood. So grieve, breathe, make peace and let go - and send your dc off to K. It's only Kindergarten. In the scheme of life it is virtually meaningless.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:09 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]But some kids are better acquired at a younger age. Some schools offer these programs that others don't at a young age, and kids not exposed will not have those advantages moving ahead. This is a fact.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:16 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]It's Kindergaraten. People really need to get a grip about what goes on in a K classroom.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:20 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What, pray tell, is your child getting in K that mine isn't?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Seriously you need to stop, I don't know if you are OP or not but we all went to and have dcs in so called 'tt' and I will tell you nothing is happening in our k-3 what you are missing out on
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:25 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I'm going out on a limb... you are a white, uppermiddle class family with two college degrees, you are in a stable marriage, and both are involved parents, your prenatal care and nutrition were excellent, your dc is in excellent health and has been "enriched" beyond imagination, she won't be lacking in the advantage department. Really, she won't.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:25 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What program did your dream school have in K that your school in the fall does not have?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:30 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]This is not about her dc this is about her ego
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:32 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]That wasn't very nice. Let her speak for herself
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:34 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Fine, sorry OP
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
OP: To be honest, it is both. It is partly about my ego, because the schadenfreude of the people around me is annoying. It is not easy to have even your closest friends intimate that your dc was not admitted b/c you might have been a PITA or that you were lying about your kids ERBs. People are petty and this process brings out a lot of pettiness. But my frustration is MORE about the educational options that my dc will be missing out on.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:39 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Wow. Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:40 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What? That she's being honest and you can't handle it because you're probably one of those annoying people who never trusts her friends?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:48 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]This makes no sense. What I was thinking was this woman is a crazy PITA who thinks her dc is a genius and who obviously wrong about that
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:51 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]NP and I was not thinking that at all.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:53 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]to me she comes across as bitter angry suspicious and entitled
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:55 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]honey, you're the crazy one
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:57 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Everyone has their own set of eyes. Mine see a disappointed, disillusioned, fearful momma bear.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:58 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I didn't go to public school but what is there to be frightened of?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:58 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]No 'sweetheart' I have enough of a balanced perspective to understand this this much energy spent on K is insane. Insane.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:59 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I didn't go to public school in nyc. Some are great, some are terrible. BUT the horror stories that some people tell about them (with no knowlegde whatsoever) are indeed frightening. I've posted before, and this is a totally true story. We have the means for private, we had a choice and we chose public general ed no less - a woman in our social cirlce could not fathom. After assuming we had no choice and offering to get our child into a private school she almost passed out when I told her we chose public. She said and I quote, "public school? I used to tell xx that if she didn't do her homework we would send her to public and she would be raped in the bathroom". If it weren't so sad, this comment might have been funny.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:02 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I know who you are and that is not what I said and I never said it to you in reference to your daughter or mine.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:05 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]HUH?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:07 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I"m not sure who you are responding to, but if its to my story above about being raped, I have a son.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]You sound like you're feeling guilty about something --- why??
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Am I the only one for whom these messages are no longer indented? How can any of us know who is responding to who
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:17 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]no at this point they no longer indent and you can't tell unless the posters make a point of stating who or what they are responding to
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:18 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]That sucks
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]THIS IS WHAT KILLS POSTS CNET
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:22 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
If you are thinking that this mom is a concerned mom who is scared to death of public schools because her crowd tells her to be then yes. We are thinking the same thing.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:49 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Ok then you release yourself from any responsibility in this, that is a good first step
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:45 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]OP: I would actually love to know what I might have done wrong. If only they would tell me/us!!
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:49 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]most likely, you were not to the manner born. oh well.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]You probably did nothing wrong - 3100 dc took the ERB for 2400 spots.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Maybe it hurts to hear this, but kids aren't all the same. The shut out dcs were the least strong of all the candidates. Tts skim the cream, and on from there...
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:13 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]You know that is not always true - there is no reason to try to make OP feel worse - she has even stated that she applied to no "TT".
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:35 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Fine. But she probably didn't apply to Birch or Dwight, either.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:44 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Her dc may have had 95+, great play dates, the whole package & still not have gotten into the schools she applied. FWIW, Dwight is not as easy to get into as UB myth would have you think. Point is that none of us know, but I do personally know some dc whose parents applied broadly (including a few UB 4th tiers) whose dc got SO. There are smart kids with nice families. Is this the majority of people who apply, no, but is does happen. Give OP a break
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:47 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
You will make new friends that aren't petty. If after spending time with a friend you feel worse instead of better, then its time to find a new friend - at least that is my yardstick. I'm not one to say I have 20 or 30 friends however, so I mgiht use the word differently. And worrying about your childs "education" isn't going to accomplish anything. Worry is a useless emotion. I know you don't want to hear it today, but just think about it tonight. Worry does not spur you to action, it does nothing but exhaust you. It has never helped a single situaiton. So, set the timer, spend your last hour worrying and be done with it. I don't know where you went to school, but you HAVE to know that there are millions of successful adults who went to jo shmoe local elementary school. Don't buy they hype. Raise your daughter, raise her to be happy, confident, and give her the gift of blooming where she is planted. All the best to you and your family, and I strongly supsect, you are going to be just fine. Good luck in making new friends who like you for you and not for where your dc learns to sit on a rug, raise her hand, read and add 10 +3.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:48 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I just leave out my dc's erbs for anyone to look at if they want.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 05:07 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
OP: In all honesty, it's about both. It is annoying to be faced with people's pettiness and schadenfreude, the smugness of the admissions office, etc. But it is MORE about the fact that my dc will not have access to this educational option. I have thick enough skin to handle the rest of the stuff.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:43 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Smugness of the admissions office, how were they smug?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:44 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If you have to ask, then you haven't been through the process yet.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:51 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I have been through it three times and grew up here no one has ever been smug!
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:54 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]There are smug admissons folks and basement interviews. Come on
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:59 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Swear to god (did not apply to Dalton though) no one was smug toward me. Except maybe the Chapin tour because they knew we had both gone to different schools.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]your experience is not the only experiece and even you describe some attitude...
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:05 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I was joking. FWIW never experienced smugness and neither have any of my friends
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:06 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]But of course, she is one of them so she doesn't feel belittled like you do no matter what they say to her
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Eh. If you're not connected or diverse, odds are good you'll get a basement interview and ding at Dalton. We did. And dc had 99s. Dalton was pretty far down our list, but we knew going in that we really weren't their kind of people. Basement interview aside, no one at any school (and we applied to 5 of the tts) was ever smug.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:19 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]We are diverse, with a high scoring dc & got a basement interview. I really don't think the "basement interview" means that much.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:40 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]The basement means Babby doesn't think you're very interesting. Fact. Being interviewed in something that's literally a broom closet isn't a great sign...
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:11 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]We are actually very interesting.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:34 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If Babby doesn't think you're interesting, you're not interesting to Dalton. Doesn't really matter what you think of yourself!
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:45 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]LOL, Babby would have no idea as she didn't meet us. That said, while I thought Dalton was a fine school academically there was something about it that just didn't do it for me & dh really disliked it. So, in the end who cares. I do think this UB basement interview is the kiss of death is probably BS. Babby is no dummy & she isn't going to have people working for her whose sole purpose is to interview all the people she thinks are "losers" after merely skimming an essay & looking the parents' pedigree.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:50 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Your child will have "access" to many things on her own merit when she's older. Please, never forget you are talking about a four year old and a system that was and is designed to keep an elite, racist, smug group of people segregated from the "others". It has so very little to do with "education".
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:52 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]LOL. Interesting take on the way it works these days. NOT being white is a definite advantage--IF the kid has the scores and the smarts.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:20 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]And doesn't need FA
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:41 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Tokens are tokens.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 05:55 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
I have had ds in the wrong school and I now have him in the right school. There is such a thing as the wrong school for a particular child and there is such a thing as damaging a child early on. It's about the fit. Some kids are okay wherever they go. Some kids can get by wherever they go. Some kids suffer and get damaged if they are in a school that is a bad fit for them. So... if you feel bad because there are good things that your child won't be exposed to in the inferior school, stop worrying about it. You can expose your child to those things on your own. If you are worrying because you think your child will be bullied, or ignored, or put down, or learn to feel stupid, or learn to hate learning, or will feel bad about himself, then you should worry, and you should try to move your child elsewhere. Generally speaking, even one bad year won't permanently damage even a vulnerable child. It's the accumlation of years of the wrong environment. Parents who say it doesn't really matter have the kinds of kids for whom it doesn't really matter; they ignorantly and blithely think all children are like their own. But again, if your child isn't getting hurt by teh school environment, you can make up for most of the school's deficiencies. There are clases for practicaly everything and whatever there isn't a class for, you can hire a tutor for.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:30 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]^ then do whatever it takes to move him into a better environment.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:32 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I'm one of the parents that said K is virtually the same. I also moved a child. This was a situation between traditional/proressive and fit. The child wasn't harmed (and in all honestly noticed less than the parents), but it all worked out. So, when I say K doesn't matter, I mean K doesn't matter. Just as you stated. It's one year, its K. It should not be causing this much agita.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:34 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
OP: I never thought our firstchoice was the "magic key to happiness" -- just the best educational option for my dc at this time. Please don't exaggerate or put words in my mouth.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]again, its K. Your first choice is most likely not all that different from your real choice. Can you share any of the differences you anticipate?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:39 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Don't know what your options were and what the reality now is but I am telling you as a grad of TT married to one with 3 dcs in those schools NOTHING is going on at these schools in K that is not going on at public
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:43 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I did not apply to TT
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:56 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]That is not the point, the point is nothing is happening at Spence or HM that isn't happening at ps 6 don't you get it? It will be fine
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:02 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]It won't all be the same -- ps don't offer foreign languages for example in the elementary school.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:13 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]For K and through to 2nd or 3rd it will be. Yes, in 3rd when french begins the differences start but you have all those years!
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]easy enough to find a class or a tutor for lang.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:12 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]this is true. We all home school to some degree. Easy to add extras here in NYC.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:16 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Do you want to share the name of the school you are loathe to send dc to
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]sounds like PS59 mom to me
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:18 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]No. PS 59 mom has a child she says with a Dec. b'day and there was some wierd issue about G&T's and Hunter too. This poster isn't harping on that crap too.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:28 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]guess again
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:29 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Really? I could have sworn she was griping about Dec. b'day one time? Regardless, she's an idiot. I am a ps59 mom myself and really do not want negative people like that in the community. We also tried for private but in the end, turned private down for a whole host of reasons and have no regrets.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:33 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]It's not nice to call people idiots. She is freaking out because she bought into the hype and continues to listen to the public school naysayers - but that doesn't make her an idiot. I'm pretty sure, she will be pleasantly surprised - but, I could be wrong. There is a mom on here that sent dc to 6 due to so and never did turn around. Strongly dislikes it.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:36 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np and that woman IS an idiot. SHe rails against the school yet her kid has not attended a day there.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:43 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I just never understand why people stoop to calling others names. Is this not something we teach our children not to do?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:55 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Love the holier than Thou types on these boards. lmao
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:59 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]lol, do you not see any irony in your resonse, np
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:07 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
I hope you're not paying (going private) to feel this lousy about your choice.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:14 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I was just going to say that
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:15 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Thank you. We are a shut out family. DC is extremely precocious too and tested well. The school dc is going to is not going to be challenging and it worries me all the time. The school we really wanted actually had an entire extra class 2 years ago (Friends) and was impossible this year. We got the OLSAT-subling stuff and frankly, couldn't get a single break. I still cry about all the hell and pony shows we endured last year in the processes and feel bad for everyone.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:26 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]where is your dc going in the fall?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:28 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Our local public. It's a very nice school but dc is basically going to lose a year "academically." I take heart in the fact that K at many privates is not all that intense anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:32 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Are you going to try and move dc in a year?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:33 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]yes but we are not holding out a lot of hope
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:35 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Why did this happen do you think, any missteps? fwiw you could move you never know dc matures, changes, trends change etc
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:37 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]SO many reasons I guess are possible. I know for a fact that the FC letter (to send or not to send) was an issue for many shut outs this year.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:44 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Can you elaborate on that?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:46 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]DId you not go thru the process this past year?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:59 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]no two years ago was our last what are you talking about?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:01 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]This year - knowing darn well there was a baby boom application year, the lovelies at the ISAAGNY decided to preclude 1st choice letters and have PSD's tell schools about "top 3." Many still sent them and others who did as they were told got burned. Schools like Friends for ex. really didn't accept any kid w/o a letter but many PSDs had no idea. It was just chaos and awful.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:06 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Why did they make this decision with the FC letters and is this forever or just this year? Well, you have to remember the PSDs don't really have that much power you will do better next time w/out her. Which prek?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:11 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]This is not what ISAAGNY did. Check their website.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:24 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]A task force within ISAAGNY made the recommendation to ISAAGNY. It was not the policy of the organization. Here's the link: http://www.isaagny.org/whatsnew/index.aspx
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:26 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]fwiw I agree with the task force, but it's an issue within the group, with some of the big gun schools wanting first choice letters.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:27 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
www.dotconnectoruk.blogspot.com
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:16 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
You are in for a shock. Your child isn't going to lose a year academically. The public programs are far more academic than the private ones in K. Your child will be ahead of the privates in an academic sense. Just wait and see.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If my dc can read extremely well and do 2nd grade math, he is going to be fine in a class of 28 at local zoned? I pray that you are right but I just don't believe you
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:45 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]OK I have been reading all these posts and I have to contribute. So far you have railed against a school you know nothing about, referred to your - shut out - dc as precocious, doing 2nd grade math, admitted your friends are quietly happy about your loss and have told you you were a PITA and you lied about ERB scores. Lady, don't you think you could b the problem here
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:48 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]OP: I am not the responder above. Those are not my posts or my profile.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]then I stand corrected
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:03 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]OP: I did respond about other's schadenfreude, however. That does happen, and it happens a lot. It's human nature, I guess.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:24 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Yes, your child is going to be fine. Because your chid will get to read the books that are right for his level of reading. That isn't hard. Each child picks books at their level and the teacher spends one on one time with them. So your child could read at 12th grade level (whatever that means) and be just fine. Math - while not as easy as reading is not that difficult. Our K teacher simply gave dc advanced work. She called the bonus questions. He was the only child to get them and loved them. No problem. Again, its K. That's all. 180 days of K.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:13 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If dc is reading well and doing 2nd grade math, dc would probably have been bored at Friends, too. Private schools do not customize the education for kids who are advanced. That said, progressive is often better for advanced children becaues the more skill-based the curriculum, the more boring it is for children who have already mastered the skills. K is usually not that big a problem even for advanced kids. They spend a lot of time figuring out how to hang up their coats.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:30 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Well I do feel for you, but really, a little perspective please, kindergarten
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:31 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]but what about the years after that? If a dc is reading and doing math and is ahead at age 5, wtf is dc supposed to do... sit and wait for a few years? NP
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:34 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]If dc was really that bright ...
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:38 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Sometimes really smart dc do not get in. My dc was reading at 3rd grade level before K, had 99+'s, and was SO at privates. We were unconnected, not glamorous, not diverse. Slow to warm DC not especially forthcoming on playdates. All the skinny condescending young blonde women who ran the playdates set my teeth on edge, so DC may have had same reaction. I told all admissions people how much I loved their schools and did nothing PITA-ey.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:39 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Actually, you DO sound like a pita. Picking up condescension from a bunch of school admins charged with taking kids up to playdates is pretty ridiculous. Took my dc to 7 playdates and I never has such a thought. Same stats, by the way. No trouble getting into fc tt.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:16 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]np. of the two of you, you're the one i'd rather poke needles in my eyes than spend five minutes with. you sound awful.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 11:25 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I sound awful? LOL. Says the woman who has negative things to say about admin staff at schools to which she applied--and even projects her weirdness on to her kid. Very, very strange.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 11:45 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Yes, and he will be slow to other things that those dcs are not I would imagine. How did this so genius dc get shut out I wonder
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:40 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]He is painfully shy. That's how.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:46 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]at collegiate we have many shy boys
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:57 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]^^ I think they like them you should apply there
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:58 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Thanks. I will check it out.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:00 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
My child is light years ahead in math and had a great time in K. They are not mutally exclusive.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 02:41 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]How did dc learn math? I'm going to guess you taught him. Continue to challenge at home. Are you under the misguided assumption that in private school the children are all doing 2nd grade math in K? They are not. Why is private this panacea for you. They do K work in K, first grade work in first. You actually have a much greater chance of getting teachers to help out a child ahead of teh game by two grades in public. They are used to "outside the norm". The privates pretty much pick clones and have tutors and parents teach them. you need perspective.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:17 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]NP you are wrong about the private schools the academics are worth the weight of the bricks in gold, but you are correct about K and 1st and 2nd. OP it is just K
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Please tell me the name of the public school where teachers give special attention to children who are advanced. I have not ever heard of this happening. I have heard numerous stories of public school teachers refusing to do anything for kids who are advanced.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:41 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]LOL. My dc goes to tt and nothing "special" is done for advanced kids there. That's a struggle ANYWHERE, imo.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 08:09 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Then surely you did notice, as we noticed at our Friends tour, that the Kindergartners were doing work that your preschooler is probably doing (if your dc is that precocious)? It seemed to us to be a really fabulous school, and I'm sure the academics get stronger at some point, but we weren't excited to spend that money to have our dc hanging out being taught things he already knew.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:34 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Hey OP, is your DC going to a crappy private like Trevor, Dwight, or CGPS?? or to a zoned public?
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:19 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Zoned public.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:27 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Dwight is much better than a public and not so crappy
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 03:34 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]The one person I know who had to send her kid to Dwight cried about it.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:21 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]What an idiot, signed dalton grad
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:37 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
ita
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:28 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]Yes, IF your DC has emotional/behavioral or academic "challenges" Dwight is better for your DC than public
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 04:57 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]At that point, though, why pay 30 odd k a year? If a decent public in NYC isn't in the cards, moving to the 'burbs is the best bet.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 05:08 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
oh, please. dwight is awful. there are many, many publics in the city that kick dwight's ass.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:36 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]So are all the schools she named.
[ Reply | Options ]08.09.08, 07:49 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
How long ago did you apply? How old was your dc when you applied?
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 09:23 AM [ Flagged | link to this post ]I was you. Would just like to sympathize and say that the process and the system stink.
[ Reply | Options ]08.10.08, 12:32 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
[+] why are sahms so judgy? 65 replies
- work. But to argue that one mother must love their child MORE??? That is just such sanctimom-ious bs....
- There's plenty of belittling going on both ways. People only tend to hear the judgment that's directed at them....? do they hire "lesser" human beings because it's only child rearing?...
- opinion. But having the experience of both, I know my child is having a totally different experience when I am...
Talk : : August 06, 2008
-
LOL! Right. We are all the same. I hear more judgement here from the WOHMs but I will not lump you all together
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]does wohm mean work out of the home (working at home) or work outside the home?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]usually means out of the house
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]WOH is outside the home; WAH is work at home.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I think the real question is why women are so "judgy" of each other, generally.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]women hate each other.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Women berating women is true self-loathing.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i think it's because they have nothing better to do than belittle wohm's who "have it all"
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol, in fact you have so little! No time with children, time to yourselves or even time to spend all that money your DHs aren't earning.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Dear LOL: are you this passive aggressive with your children also?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Nothing passive about me, I call it like I see it.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: right, just aggressive
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:50 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you are a sad person. i'm a sahm btw.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
...says the woman who is on a chat board at work!
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
you just did.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:44 PM [ Flagged | link to this post ]
Why do blondes wear hoop earrings?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]insecurity
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't find that for the most part. But maybe they feel judged more because they are in a postion that has little monetary value in our society and are very under appreciated. With that, I will be a working mom after my 3 month maternity leave.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]note: children who are in daycare or cared for by a loving nanny are not at any disadvantage whatsoever either emotionally or academically. Studies have proved this. I think sahm's in nyc are an intelligent group who are not meeting their full potential as human beings by choosing to sah therefore they judge.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:38 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Full potential? You mean contributing tax data or editing copy is your full potential...how sad for you!
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:40 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]this is LOL again. poor poor kids.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:42 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]??
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:44 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
full potential as defined by whom? i'm a sahm and i've never been happier, which i think means I am meeting my full potential.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Contributing to their childrens' present and future security and qualities of lives, setting positive examples of autonomy and balance, modeling other forms of self-sufficiency, societal participation and empowerment, may be more reasonably viewed as alternative to staying at home, rather than as some lesser form of parenting. Additionally, the reality that some people have no alternative to working outside the home seems to be ignored(for the most part)here. Should those mothers/fathers have not become parents, put their kids up for adoption? This is fallout from the storm of entitlement and 'affluence' that's been reigning on this site. Can anyone have sympathy for women/men that would happily spend the time they use to work, w/their children? It's clear empathy isn't available and that will be a sad affect, passed on to the born-enlightened beings that are their children. THAT is sad.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]children? Clearly, empathy isn't available. What's most sad is that these people will pass these deficiencies to their born-enlightened children. Talk about pollution.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't want to neglect mentioning that I admire great and loving parents; I don't split them into dumb-assed categories based on employment circumstances-sah, woh,wah,whatever.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
"not meeting their full potential" - that sure sounds judgmental. I never understood how raising human beings is seen as "less than" challenging work. Who should be raising them if not their intelligent parents?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know. what does that say about the nannies they hire? do they hire "lesser" human beings because it's only child rearing?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not OR but for ivy-league educated women who could have been tops in the professional fields, sorry SAHM is not full potential. Raising kids is not a full-time job. Children only need full-time care for a short time when compared to a woman's potential professional lifespan. My SAHM friends who are judgmenetal (I note that they are the minority of my SAHM friends) are the ones who really could have acheived great things professionally.
[ Reply | Options ]08.07.08, 01:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My post wasn't judging either way, this is my first child, I don't know what will feel better, SAH or working outside. I have a week to go! It's a chioce, it's different for everyone, I was responding more to the fact that SAHM's are underpaid and overworked, as I can remember from my own mother SAH! I'm not saying either one is more/less rewarding, I don't know yet!
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i feel much more rested than when i worked and had no kids now that i sah. i sah because my mother woh and seemed stressed and exhausted.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I woh because my mother woh, and it never occured to me that being financially dependent on another person was a way I would want to live. Especially in NYC where people are defined by salaries and titles.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that's good for you. . . there is a lot more to it than being financially dependent on someone else. if that's what would define it for you then you shouldn't do it of course. seems like a sad way to view a marriage though.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I view marriage as an equal partnership, which is not sad. And part of my half is a financial which helps my dh have more time and energy for our family.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:23 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]partnership isn't just about money though. And if being financially dependent makes you anxious, that is your issue with being vulnerable...
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np - she said "part" not "just." fyi, studies have shown that financial dependence during child-rearing years results, statistically-speaking, in harm to women. that is to say, the vulnerability is not just her issue, it's a rational take on the world.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 06:13 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
True and sad: When marriages fail and end in divorce, finances define the new status of everything and affect all aspects- including(but in no way limited to) custody, housing, any and all assets. This sounds like an ostrich mentality.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so you should work so as to prepare yourself for divorce...that's even more sad. I prepare, I have life insurance, long term disability, etc. But this line of thinking is truly catastrophic and unhealthy!
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Not prepare for divorce; be realistic about personal security and that of your kids. I've been married for 20 yrs and have sadly witnessed much divorce between loving, seemingly content partners. Life can change is what I inferred; Don't twist my opinions, chick.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 04:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]was the chick really necessary? You went from thoughtful to abrasive in about 2 seconds with that comment...
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 04:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Any stop and read/think trigger would've worked for me at that moment. It's completely immature to take fairly well directed commentary and label it-out of context-as sane or not. Nowhere did I imply marriage was a segue to divorce or that work was a preparation for that possibility. I believe dissolutions of marriages can be many things; They are not always catastrophes; sometimes they're the healthiest, happiest paths out of bad places and times. The Chick rankled my ire;;Sorry I rankled yours.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 06:22 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
And I stated above all the reasons I understand and appreciate working at home or away from it...
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 04:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I would guess most women who end up 40 and divorced with no career to fall back on never saw it coming. I bet they wish they were "sad" and prepared for the future.
[ Reply | Options ]08.07.08, 01:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It really bothers me that SAHM bear all of the risk of a marriage going wrong and to make any kind of arranagements is "sad" or not having faith in the marriage. Men don't have the same vulnerabilities.
[ Reply | Options ]08.07.08, 01:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't think people found your post judgmental, it's the next one that seems so...
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Are there studies to prove this as well?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Look who is judging.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:26 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
7 months
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I WOHM, and I do find that certain SAHM make it an issue. The worst is when they make it a "love your child less" issue. There are million reasons to stay home, and a million to work. But to argue that one mother must love their child MORE??? That is just such sanctimom-ious bs.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:43 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]np: ITA, and even worse is when they smugly hide it by spewing "to each their own"crap while simmering with superiority on the inside. I witness this all the time. Signed: WOH but used to SAH
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:53 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]nnp: i sah and feel judged for it irl every time i tell someone that. i certainly do not feel superior for it and doubt i'm in the minority on that but who knows.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 01:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I never heard a sahm talk like this ever. I am sahm. I have nothing for respect for a wohm - I know I couldn't do it, but that is my choice. I just couldn't handle it and I would go insane juggling everything. I'm not judging how much you love your child. I have never questioned that. Jeesh. What is wrong with you that you think this way? I have heard wohm belittle sahm for sport though and think it's unfortunate. It makes you sound bitter. You may not be, but I find wohm are the judgemental ones.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:29 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]NP: There's plenty of belittling going on both ways. People only tend to hear the judgment that's directed at them.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:31 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Very true. It's ridiculous.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:33 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am sahm. I have never simmered with superiority. What does that even mean?
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Because you're a WOHM. If not, you'd notice how judgy the WOHMs are toward SAHMs. Don't buy into this, please. Individual people are nasty, not whole groups of people.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]maybe it's not sahms who are judgey. maybe it's wohms who are defensive and see judgements and criticisms when they aren't there.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Maybe it's the same creepy and competitive posters-one using the company's time and the other, using their kids' time -online...
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 02:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]lol. there's a good chance you are right.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have heard a WOHM say that SAHMs are "too stupid or lazy to do anything else" and have heard SAHMs say that WOHMs sacrifice their children on the alter of their greed so I would have to say that neither group has the monopoly on judginess.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 03:52 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I once had a sahm ask her daughter in front of me: "should babies be with their mommies or with a baaabysitter?". the kid, who was around 4, knew it was such an asinine thing to ask that she never answered.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]many sahm who have financial freedom, choose their kid over their career. it is super hard to make this choice for many bright, accomplished people but they do it anyway. it comes with a lot of insecurity about their identity and what they are adding to the world and they worry that wohm look down on them. so we judge each other. alas, enough of the crap about the kids being the same regardless if they were raised by parents or babysitter. maybe not better or worse per se - but come on - it's different and that is just discounting the sacrifice that some sahm feel they are making for their kids.
[ Reply | Options ]08.06.08, 09:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. I'm a WAH, but just getting 50% of the experience...it is a sacrifce, and it is hard. Way harder than working at a job, in my opinion. But having the experience of both, I know my child is having a totally different experience when I am there or when I am here to monitor the sitter (which is not all the time, even though I'm WAH).
[ Reply | Options ]08.07.08, 07:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am sahm that completely supports women who work outside the home and I do not believe their children are any worse off than mine, a good mom is a happy mom, and why the frick should the same thing make us all happy? it is bizarre to think that all women would want to sah, or that all women would want to go to work after babies. we have to to what we need to do so survive, having kids is hard. The saddest part is some women are forced to work when they want to sah due to finances. Choice is important for us all to be happy.
[ Reply | Options ]08.07.08, 04:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] name poll: parker, jack, cole, reid, aiden 39 replies
- np: I know a few Reids (adults) but only child Jack/Aidens....
Talk : : August 04, 2008
name poll: parker, jack, cole, reid, aiden
39 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]08.04.08, 05:56 PM [ Flag ]if it must be one of these, then reid.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ironic. friend has cole and her reid died at 3 months old of rare genetic condition.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
jack
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 05:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]funny, I just landed on reid today as my boy's name and was trying to figure out if it's too popular. do you know?
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 05:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]or: I dont know any reids, but I named my son a name which i didnt think was popular, but then someone on here said it was "too popular" who knows
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]op: i don't think it is too popular - that is my issue with jack & aiden....seems like reid is still relatively 'unknown'....what were your other options -perhaps i'll like one of them!
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]well I used my other boy option. and then I have one im reserving for #2. But I did not get to use Lucas - although thats a little popular. My other one is Asa
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^that was or, btw
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Like Lucas
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
np: I know a few Reids (adults) but only child Jack/Aidens.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Reid is my first choice. My boys name for when I had #1 was Griffin but I had a girl. Now I keep hearing it EVERYWHERE so I've abandoned in favor of something a bit less popular.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Funny, I haven't met a single Griffin!
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Cole, Reid, Jack, Aiden, Parker (in that order)
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I vote Cole or Reid. Jack and Aiden are too popular, and Parker is just not my style.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:02 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]what does parker connote to you? people seem to have a slightly negative reaction to it, not sure why...
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]it's a last name
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]seems pretentious
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]stuffy, boring
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
its a girls name
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]poor girl.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
To me it connotes my adorable hilarious 9 yo nephew...but that's just one...
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]or the trouble-making kid on desperate housewives
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
You know, everyone dislikes something. Ignore them, I say. My boy is Liam and I get "Why not William?" all the time. People think they are the name police. Parker isn't my favorite name, in theory, but there is nothing wrong with it and I'm sure if I knew an adorable little Parker I would love it. If you love the name, go for it. By the by, all the names you listed sound nice to me.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:25 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Here's my favorite (which I'll share since I'm not having any more DC): Rhys (pronounced Reese)
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]or
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]^^sorry, or here - thats my sons middle name. Dh and I both love it!
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I can't stop thinking of the wacky english roomate in notting hill
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that was his name?
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]wait a second - his name was spike
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]real life name -- rhys ifans
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Rhys Ibans (or something like that).
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]His real name is Rhys. Rhys is a popular Welsh name.
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]oh...you mean his REAL name : )
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I like Rhys a lot too, just added it to my "list". I'm wondering though, if I don't like the way it looks more than the sound of it (no one knows how it's spelled when you say it!)
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:16 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Thought you'd like the sound of it (if you were the poster who liked Reid), and it's a more unusual than some of the other names (which you seemed to want).
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
what about jackson?
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i love that name too
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds southern
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
posey, black, mine, tara, quinn...
[ Reply | Options ]08.04.08, 06:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Oh terrible. DH on the phone now, just learned that an old law school friend committe...
Talk : : August 02, 2008
[+] MIL issues! My husband and I are expecting our first and we just found out it's a Gir... 10 replies
- Be careful what you wish for. My dh is an only child and we didn't have our dd until we were 38. My mil was way to involved in my pregnancy. She even walked into the delivery room right after I gave birth(mind you we didn't...
Talk : : July 30, 2008
MIL issues! My husband and I are expecting our first and we just found out it's a Girl! (yay!) My MIL already has a granddaughter so I know she was rooting for us to have a boy. It's been 3 days since my husband called her to tell her (her reaction was "oh okay, good!" She hasn't offered one ounce of excitement or congratulations to me. When my husbands SIL found out she was having a girl my MIL called the world with excitement. Am I totally overreacting - I swear pregnancy is making me crazy at times! Thx!
10 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.30.08, 07:39 AM [ Flag ]Pregnancy makes you crazy. It was the same with us, my sister was the 1st to have kids dont get me wrong my mom loves my dd, but it was way more hoopla over the first grandbaby.
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 07:45 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]totally understandable but it's my MIL's daughter-in-laws...just weird. she's crazy so i dont care, it's just weird. thx :)
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 07:47 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
There's nothing like the first! After that everyone is more blase, even if it's your first. Plus pg is full of slights or perceived slights (sp?). Try to move through them.
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 07:46 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]She just not that into you
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 08:16 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]LOL! The feeling is mutual!
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 01:12 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Dd is the first girl in dh's family in 4 generations. Before and during my pregnancy everyone was very exited, was such a big deal that it is a girl. She is 4 months old and most of his family hasn't congratulated us yet, let alone came to visit. It bothers me a little, but whatever. They were nicer when my son was born :)
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 01:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]the same kind of thing happened to me. We don't know what we are having but when she saw me and saw that I was "carrying high like a boy" which is a BS OWT, she had a look of utter disapointment on her face. I dont know what her agenda is..
[ Reply | Options ]07.30.08, 01:47 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA - yup! totally same thing. MIL's suck!
[ Reply | Options ]07.31.08, 07:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My MIL couldn't have cared less (at least this is how she acted) that I was PG... but when HER daughter had her baby 3 years earlier it was all she could talk about.
[ Reply | Options ]07.31.08, 07:42 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Be careful what you wish for. My dh is an only child and we didn't have our dd until we were 38. My mil was way to involved in my pregnancy. She even walked into the delivery room right after I gave birth(mind you we didn't even call her until I was 8cm.)and was holding my baby will my butt was still being stitched up.
[ Reply | Options ]07.31.08, 08:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] DH and I have been together 10 years. we are going through a phase of being out of sy... 11 replies
- in many areas. I wish that we could talk better. he is very involved with his life right now, which is good, but I need to do more to get more involved in mine. He is an only child and is pretty focused on what he wants to do....
Talk : : July 28, 2008
DH and I have been together 10 years. we are going through a phase of being out of synch. long term married people out there, tell me it gets better. please?
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.28.08, 01:50 PM [ Flag ]this is what people mean when they say you have to work at a marriage.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 01:51 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ITA. we've been together 22, married almost 17. we've had our rough patches but can't imagine life w/o each other. you just work though it, and keep communicating.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 01:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
It gets better. I was just thinking about that this morning. DH and I have been married for 11.5 years - together as a couple for 18. There are definitely patches (and a good part of married year 10 was one of them) that I felt out-of-synch and very much like "being on a break," but so happy to have stuck it out: DH is my rock and my truest friend - even if it didn't always seem like that. Hang in there, and until things level out try to look for the fun and the opportunity to show love.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 01:55 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you. my dad left early and I never had any good role models for relationships that "stayed the course." I guess I learn as I go.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 01:57 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Reduce expectations. Focus on things you both enjoy and allow adequate space for individual interests. Think of yourselves as on a teeter totter. It takes two to find balance. Sometimes you just have to hang out till you're both ready to commit to getting there.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks. i've been feeling like a nag lately but I have come up upon the realizations that i am disappointed in many areas. I wish that we could talk better. he is very involved with his life right now, which is good, but I need to do more to get more involved in mine. He is an only child and is pretty focused on what he wants to do.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]have you read 7 habits of highly effective people? I really liked that book & it helped me get on better track
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Choose a personal goal you've been procrastinating about. Learn to play an instrument, write some poetry with a class, join a book group, learn to fence - anything that will give you pleasure and a challenge outside of marriage.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thanks everyone. these are probably much more productive than the gin and tonic I was planning on. :-)
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:09 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Oh, I forgot to mention, you should definitely, definitely have a gin and tonic.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:10 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Make sure you offer him one, too.
[ Reply | Options ]07.28.08, 02:35 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Teachers at 3.5yo ds's school told me ds never plays with other kids, always stands o... 1 reply
- Please don't worry. I don't know why some teachers want to give moms a complex about their kids! Some thoughts: as your child gets older can you offer to be a playground monitor (that way you get to see firsthand what's up) and also do you have any reason to think there's anything wrong? If not, carry on....
Talk : : July 25, 2008
Teachers at 3.5yo ds's school told me ds never plays with other kids, always stands off to the side or refuses to play with others. He is an only child, but plays well with just one or two kids at a time. Has trouble with groups it seems. He is otherwise friendly and chatty with adults, just prefers them to kids. Normal or should I worry?
1 reply [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.25.08, 10:03 AM [ Flag ]Please don't worry. I don't know why some teachers want to give moms a complex about their kids! Some thoughts: as your child gets older can you offer to be a playground monitor (that way you get to see firsthand what's up) and also do you have any reason to think there's anything wrong? If not, carry on.
[ Reply | Options ]07.25.08, 10:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Teachers at 3.5yo ds's school told me ds never plays with other kids, always stands o...
Talk : : July 25, 2008
Teachers at 3.5yo ds's school told me ds never plays with other kids, always stands off to the side or refuses to play with others. He is an only child, but plays well with just one or two kids at a time. Has trouble with groups it seems. He is otherwise friendly and chatty with adults, just prefers them to kids. Normal or should I worry?
[ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.25.08, 10:03 AM [ Flag ]
[+] would you pay $675/week to a 50 hour/week person who cleaned your house, did your lau... 13 replies
- Yes. I pay $600 for that for only 40 hours, so I think that's a bargin!...
Talk : : July 22, 2008
would you pay $675/week to a 50 hour/week person who cleaned your house, did your laundry, did all of your household shopping (e.g., food, cat litter, cleaning products), picked your only child up from kindergarten and babysat on all non-school days, all live-out?
13 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.22.08, 02:18 PM [ Flag ]If I had the money I would pay anything for help and a break
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]if I had $675 a week to spend. Sure!
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]are you asking if it's a reasonable price?
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OP - Yes. We've always paid less for full time nanny-only and now that dd going to kindergarten and will be in school 8:30 - 2:50, are changing to combo housekeeper/housecleaner/babysitter, who we know and is very good at all. $675 is just a lot more $$ than we've been paying, and even though we're 2 working parents, it's not easy to pay that much more - although we will, because she's good, if $675 is a reasonable rate.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:24 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i think it's reasonable but if it were me, i'd rather find one person to do cleaning and one person to do childcare. you might pay a premium on each b/c it's not full time so you'll end up paying the same amount. but it's easier than if she slacks off in any one area. (i mean, what are you going to do if you don't like how she cleans?).
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]easy to find someone to do housekeeping and cleaning 40 hours/week, but almost impossible to find someone to do the childcare for workweeks that vary from 20-50 hours/week (e.g., school vacation weeks and all those random days when there's no school because teachers go to seminars, etc.) Fortunately, I already know I like how she cleans and cooks.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:39 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]then do it. it's a very good price for what you are getting. but if it were me, i wouldn't *need* the housekeeping 40 hours a week so i wouldn't do it. but it sounds like it'll work out well for you.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:41 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
Yes. I pay $600 for that for only 40 hours, so I think that's a bargin!
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 02:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so 32,000 for working a 50 hour work week? if she was live-in it would be fair. otherwise she could make more waitressing 30 hours a week.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 03:49 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It's 35,000 cash, under the table - and also competitive pay for this kind of work
[ Reply | Options ]07.24.08, 10:07 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]thats a lot more than I take home (I am paid 35K but not cash)... I should become a nanny...
[ Reply | Options ]07.24.08, 10:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I would pay that, absolutely, if I could afford it... but then again, I enjoy grocery shopping... and laundry (but not folding it)
[ Reply | Options ]07.24.08, 10:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i guess u have a dirty house and dirty laundry everyday ha
[ Reply | Options ]01.23.09, 01:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] I am a SAHM and haven't had a nanny because my parents are a few blocks away for when... 5 replies
Talk : : July 22, 2008
I am a SAHM and haven't had a nanny because my parents are a few blocks away for when I need a sitter, HOWEVER, my dd is an only child and would like playdates with kids who have nannies. What do I do? Hire a nanny for one day a week for playdates? What type of a nanny wouldn't have a mostly full-time job? I don't even know where to look honestly. Suggestions are welcome.
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.22.08, 07:13 AM [ Flag ]take your kid on the playdates with the nannies. some nannies may not want to socialize with you but some won't care.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]why do you need a nanny? Can't your dc just go to playdates with you? So what if the other dc will be with their nanny
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I am trying to find random babysitting jobs here and there and would definitely do playdates with your child. My email is creinekullman@yahoo.com if you are interested. I am a 36 year old currently unemployed NYC woman. I am college educated and have been babysitting the past few months in nYC.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:20 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I WAH part-time. Somedays my sitter takes DS to playdates and sometimes I do. No reason you can't do it yourself.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]take her to playdates yourself. why would you hire someone just to do that?
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] xpost from toddler: how do you handle kids being mean to each other? in my situation,...
Talk : : July 21, 2008
xpost from toddler: how do you handle kids being mean to each other? in my situation, i have 3.5yo identical twin dds. we were at a bbq this weekend and my one dd formed a 'club' with the host's dd. the two girls told my other dd that she couldn't play (her own sister yelled at her to go away), and i felt awful when she burst into tears and came running over to me. i'm not sure how to handle this since i was an only child growing up. any advice would be appreciated!
[ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.21.08, 07:45 PM [ Flag ]
[+] btdt moms: how do you handle kids being mean to each other? in my situation, i have ... 15 replies
- t not let somebody join. You wouldn't have let one dd be mean like that in your own house, you were just thrown by dealing with the host's child too. Now that you have had a talk with both your dd, the next time this happens you can simply say to your own child "that is not allowed". You need to have a few pat phrases that you trot out once a day that they understand instantly "be nice" & "...
Talk : : July 21, 2008
btdt moms: how do you handle kids being mean to each other? in my situation, i have 3.5yo identical twin dds. we were at a bbq this weekend and my one dd formed a 'club' with the host's dd. the two girls told my other dd that she couldn't play (her own sister yelled at her to go away), and i felt awful when she burst into tears and came running over to me. i'm not sure how to handle this since i was an only child growing up. any advice would be appreciated!
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.21.08, 07:16 PM [ Flag ]Wow, my knee jerk response is to take your mean daughter away asap for a good long time out. How hurtful.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:17 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i know! i gave her a timeout and talked to her about it, but i'm not sure what to do going forward - it was horrible to see my own children turn on each other.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:19 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I think reply below is a good place to start.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:20 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have two girls, 7 and 5, and "clubs" include everybody or no clubs. I call it what it is: mean. No meanness. You don't have to include your sister in everything, but you can't deliberately exclude her. For 3.5, maybe say everybody has to play together and suggest a game that needs more people. London Bridge is a good one for three.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]thank you. what do you do when you find one dd excluding the other? i wasn't sure what to say to the host's dd, since they're work friends of my dh.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:21 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'd tell the "in" dd that she would have to tell "host" dd that she had to quit the club unless it included anybody who wanted to join.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I have 5 yr old twin dds & one of the tough/best part of twins is that they learn the hard lessons about sharing and excluding way before other kids. Most schools deal with "clubs" starting in K where they say exactly what the poster above did - no clubs allowed that exclude somebody, you can't not let somebody join. You wouldn't have let one dd be mean like that in your own house, you were just thrown by dealing with the host's child too. Now that you have had a talk with both your dd, the next time this happens you can simply say to your own child "that is not allowed". You need to have a few pat phrases that you trot out once a day that they understand instantly "be nice" & "family shares" are big ones here & my dd understand the subtext that the consequence of not listening is a timeout or toy taken away.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:46 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]It just occurred to me how ironic it is that you are asking us what to do about mean kids.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:48 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]why? cos we're mean moms?
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 07:54 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My ds is mean to my dd at times but they are 5 years apart. I usually talk to my ds about his behaviour and sometimes there is punishment involved. I think it is important to teach siblings to stick up for one another and that they shouldn't be the cause of their sibling's hurt feeling - particularly when there is other people involved. That said - you also need to give each dc a chance to make their own friends - e.g., if someone invites one of your dds to a playdate - you shouldn't insist they invite the other too.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 08:32 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I don't have anythong more insighful to say, but I have b/g 3.5 twins & they mostly get alongexcept when he gets frustrated & hits her. It is big sis (4.5), who forms a girl's club & leaves DS out. Big sis seems to know or want to be meaner & exclusive than twin DD.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 12:01 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Best advice is to stay out of it. All children go thru this. Its a way to learn. Parents are far too involved in their childrens social lives.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 05:55 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No, not when they're 3.5. Older, I would agree with you, but they're too young and need to be told that it's not okay to act like this.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 07:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
When it's just my two (6 & 2) I first see if they resolve it w/o any intervention on my part. If it's not happening I send them to their rooms for a few minutes to cool off, then put them in their shared bathroom and tell them they can come out until they've worked it out and hugged it out.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 06:11 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]A great book toread that may help you in years to come is called "Siblings Without Rivalry". It is very helpful.
[ Reply | Options ]07.22.08, 06:25 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Ok, the unthinkable happens and you and dh buy the farm. What happens with dcs? Have ... 6 replies
- to SIL (DH's sister) and her DH. She and DH are close and have a nice relationship and I feel okay about this choice (I'm an only child, so it's not as though I have a sibling to consider!). For now, my parents would handle most of the $ -- but my ILs are in...We do not have a trust per say - but all of our assest (medium amount) will be sold and controlled by the childs guardian. Its my dh's sister....
Talk : : July 16, 2008
Ok, the unthinkable happens and you and dh buy the farm. What happens with dcs? Have you arranged guardianship/Trust etc? We're in our will updating mode as you might guess from this post.
6 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.16.08, 05:21 PM [ Flag ]They'd go to SIL (DH's sister) and her DH. She and DH are close and have a nice relationship and I feel okay about this choice (I'm an only child, so it's not as though I have a sibling to consider!). For now, my parents would handle most of the $ -- but my ILs are in better health, so I'm not sure that it should stay this way (I trust both sets of GPs), but I'd also want my parents involved.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 05:45 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]you're lucky you have such a big support network.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 06:03 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
DC's will go to DH's sister. Our assets will go into trust, with a trusted friend/lawyer as the trustee. Funds will be disbursed from the trust to SIL for dc's expenses as necessary.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 05:59 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yep, they go to one of my sisters.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 06:07 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]We have designated guardians and then have a trust w/ several people designated as the trustees (not the same as the guardians). We also set up the trust to the money doesn't just vest when the kids hit 21.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 06:30 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]Yes, we have chosen a guardian. Luckily, dh and I agreed from teh get go. We do not have a trust per say - but all of our assest (medium amount) will be sold and controlled by the childs guardian. Its my dh's sister.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 06:36 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] We're on the fence about having a second child. Anybody with siblings think they'd ha... 18 replies
- yes to this) anyone with more than one wish you only had one?...
- I have only seen my older brother once in 20 years....
- I was raised as an only because my brother & sister are so much older. I think it would...looking at it from the point of view of your child's well being. think a bit about what it...adopting dc #2, after 10 years of having an only child. Lot's of pros and cons, agree that...
Talk : : July 16, 2008
We're on the fence about having a second child. Anybody with siblings think they'd have been happier as an only child?? Any only children who really wish they had siblings?
18 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.16.08, 11:25 AM [ Flag ]Oh jeez, giving dc a sibling is not the reason to have another, no matter what people on here say
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ok, maybe i should ask question differently- anyone with one wish you had more? or the corrolary (though i doubt anyone would answer yes to this) anyone with more than one wish you only had one?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I would have liked to have had another but my dh did not want more plus we couldn't afford it, so we are happy and content with our daughter.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
why not?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:27 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita- people have so many different experiences that there is no "right way" or "right" thing to do. Just weigh the pros and cons and make your peace with a decision.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]ita.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i am a happy only. never wanted a sib and stil dont. (i have steps but i barely know them.) FWIW i have two kids but one would have been fine.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]which one would you get rid of - #1 or #2?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]please. one WOULD HAVE BEEN, as in, if i hadn't conceived the 2d time (I was old) it would not have been the end of my world nor would i have made a huge effort to get pregnant.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:37 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I don't know if there's a right answer to this one, but when I look at my 2 kids interact (they are now 3.5 and 8 mo) there is nothing in this world that could make me happier. It's the most special thing I've ever seen. I can't imagine them not having each other.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I say that my younger brother ruined my life. But truthfully, I'm happy I have sibling. DH & I were on the fence for 2 years before we decided to have #2. It was hard having 2. But watching our 2 kids together, even when they're fighting over a toy ... it's totally worth it.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:28 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I have only seen my older brother once in 20 years.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:30 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I was raised as an only because my brother & sister are so much older. I think it would have been really healthy for me to have been at home w/ a sibling or two. I turned out fine, but I am somewhat self-centered. Also, my parents had a rough patch when I was young and my mom used me as her confidante and treated me like a mini-adult--not healthy, imo. I think that would be less likely w/ siblings around. Now my big sister and (17 year difference) are super, super close. But it would be nice to be closer in age. My kids are 3.5 years apart and are really growing in their relationship and learning a lot of from each other--it's awesome.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i think it's sweet that you are asking this question, because it's clear you are looking at it from the point of view of your child's well being. think a bit about what it means for your life and your husband's life too, of course, and then you'll figure it out. these personal decisions are really hard. don't let anyone sway you because of their own baggage, though. everyone is different and there is no way to tell what the future holds.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]For me 1 dc was great 2dcs are better.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:39 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]we are in the process of adopting dc #2, after 10 years of having an only child. Lot's of pros and cons, agree that only you can make the choice. BTW - dc#1 is dying to have a sibling but that is no guarantee that he will feel the same way when dc#2 arrives. I am close to my siblings, my husband barely speaks to his. You never know.
[ Reply | Options ]07.21.08, 09:02 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
My older brother made my life so much better overall. I would be so bored all the time if it weren't for him. He got me into my hobbies and passions, he taught me so much about the world that my parents wouldn't have. I wish I had more siblings, and I could not image life without any.
[ Reply | Options ]10.08.08, 12:34 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]I hate to say this but I was perfectly happy with just my older brother. I was disappointed when my little sister was born because to this day at the ages of 19 and 16 we still have to share. it sucks for me.
[ Reply | Options ]12.29.08, 11:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] Do you think it's irresponsible to have more than one child? 21 replies
- why are you only having one?...
- no, i think it's irresponsible to only have one. that places too much burden on an...
- any only children want to respond to that? agree? disagree?...
- isn't going to help anything. I am an only child as well but would never blame my...
- I am an only and I disagree. My dh has an older...
Talk : : July 16, 2008
Do you think it's irresponsible to have more than one child?
21 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.16.08, 11:16 AM [ Flag ]i'm only having one, but i can't think of any reason why it would be irresponsible to have more.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:17 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]why are you only having one?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]we're really happy with the family just the way it is.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
No--why would it be?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]my dh thinks it is, environmentally. and ability to give attention to that kid and our #1 (we both work).
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:18 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]My friend is has cancer and is an only. She doesn't have a compatible bone marrow donor. THAT is irresponsible.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No guarantee that a sibling would be a match...
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm sorry your friend is ill but using that as a case for being irresponsible is going too far
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]She would disagree with you and is mad at her parents for not providing her with a sib.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:26 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]I'm sorry she's using her frustration in this way. It isn't going to help anything. I am an only child as well but would never blame my parents for that - there are many factors that contributed to it
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:33 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]How would her parents have known that she would need bone marrow? To blame them for that seems pretty selfish
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:35 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
no, i think it's irresponsible to only have one. that places too much burden on an only child when you and dh get old and are wearing diapers again.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:19 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]any only children want to respond to that? agree? disagree?
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:21 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm an only and i am fine with it. lots of times one sib ends up with all the elder care anyway.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Exactly, my Dad has two sisters & he and my mom are the ones who take care of my grandmother
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:24 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
I am an only and I disagree. My dh has an older sister who is absolutely NO help (actually a hindrance) with his older, ailing parents. If she wasn't around things would be much easier for us all.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:34 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
i agree that it might be hard, but that's not enough of a reason to have another.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:29 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]Lady, You are sick. I think she is being really mature and responsible. Most people fail to consider how they may have limited resources to adequately support more than one child.
[ Reply | Options ]07.29.08, 08:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
No, but then we adopted both of ours. But that's because I can't get pg.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:22 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]no
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:23 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]No. It takes 2 people to make one baby so 2 babies just replace the parents.
[ Reply | Options ]07.16.08, 11:32 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
[+] does anyone have advice, or recommendation for articles/books i can give to my mom, t... 16 replies
- so don't ever leave her alone with both. When the baby is born, have her come by when the baby is sleeping to take older child out for fun activities. have her see the baby when older one is at camp/school or occupied with your dh....
Talk : : July 14, 2008
does anyone have advice, or recommendation for articles/books i can give to my mom, to help her adjust to having a 2nd grandchild? i'm an only child, and a few things she's said recently have made me realize that she could use some help. she is very very focused on my dd (reminds me of how she was w/ me, which drove me crazy growing up), and recently mentioned that she wants to give the new db a present so that dd (who is 5 btw) won't think that my mom doesn't like the new baby. (??) i know she'll need to learn how to divide her attention between the two grandchildren, but would like to offer some gentle suggestions on how to do this. any advice?
16 replies [ Reply | Watch | Options ]07.14.08, 02:55 PM [ Flag ]You're over thinking
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 02:56 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]ditto. don't make problems where there are none.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 02:58 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]no...i totally know my mom, and how totally complicated and (unintentionally) insensitive she can be. she is very unintuitive and i'd really like her to put some thought into how she interacts w/ dd, to avoid problems.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]OR: what I meant was, she is the grandmother, you are over thinking her role and her interest in your DD
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:01 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]mmmm...maybe, but i feel she is really obsessive about my dd (makes dd uncomfortable, too) and i'd just like to help my mom relax a little into her role and help her to have a healthy relationship w/ my dc.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sounds more like you want to control and dictate the relationship your mom has with your first child. And its weird.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i don't want to control/dictate their relationship, i want to encourage it to be healthier and less obsessive. i would like to protect dd from feeling the way i did, growing up (and now), i guess...
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:11 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]but you started this post with a smokescreen about a new baby. Its more about YOUR feelings for your mom. You just have to back out and let your mom and children have their relationship and if you think the relationship is harmful then step in, but no - there are no books that will address your issues with your mom.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:14 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]sorry, and tie it to the birth of a second baby/grandbaby.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:15 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
your dd is not going to feel the same way you did because your mom is not her mom. It's no where close to being the same type of relationship.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:18 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
ok, lets try this one, "don't start no sh*&, won't be none."
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:05 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]
she'll figure it out by the time db is old enough to care
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:00 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]i'm not worried about db #2. worried about how she will treat dd now, as she has no clue how to pay attention to two kids at once. i've read suggestions in articles re: having guests who come to meet the new baby greet the older sibling first, and little things like that, can be good. my mom is very capable of traumatizing my dd by completely ignoring her and fawning over the new db.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:04 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]let it go lady. Why not wait and see what happens. Then deal.
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:06 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]that sucks, but I doubt there are any books on the subject. Honestly, I think it will be fine, I know she hurt you, but dd already has a great mother and a grandmother really doesn't have the same ability to hurt a kid (I should know, one of my grandmother's was a complete witch).
[ Reply | Options ]07.14.08, 03:08 PM [ Flag | link to this post ]so don't ever leave her alone with both. When the baby is born, have her come by when the baby is sleeping to take older child out for fun activities. have her see the baby when older one is at camp/school or occupied with your dh.
[ Reply | Options ]07.15.08, 06:08 AM [ Flag | link to this post ]
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