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August 13, 2013





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Tales of: The quiet, stalwart hero of Japanese RPGs Exclusive
 Tales of : The quiet, stalwart hero of Japanese RPGs
August 9, 2013 | By Christian Nutt

August 9, 2013 | By Christian Nutt
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More: Console/PC, Design, Production, Business/Marketing, Exclusive



The Tales of series has quietly and slowly become prominent among RPG fans in the West. Starting with 1998's Tales of Destiny, the series has had a bumpy road -- many titles never connected with audiences, and many others never left Japan. But after the unexpectedly strong performance of Tales of Graces f in 2012, Namco Bandai has recommitted to the franchise. Interest in it is "progressing very steadily," according to franchise producer Hideo Baba.

"We definitely look it as an opportunity to stand out and grow, but compared to 10 years ago, it's a very lonely development environment," says Baba. "Back then there was a lot of rivalry; there was a lot to look at compared to now. But now what really stands out is Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Tales. It's much more lonely."

Trying to Make the Best Japanese Game, Not a Bad Western Game

The Tales of franchise does things quite a bit differently than Final Fantasy, long the standard bearer of the genre in the West. For one, Baba doesn't want to change the franchise just to appeal to Western players, as that might lose the core of expressiveness that has driven the series so far.

"I feel like there's a huge culture behind the development of a game. And therefore, I don't feel the need for Japanese developers to really force themselves to understand Western culture, and try to really push themselves out of their comfort zone and then create a game that's specifically catered to Western audiences."

"I think it's better to look at yourself internally to see what works, what the strengths are of the Japanese culture, and make sure to see that, understand it, and grow that aspect, and try to make the best game that the Japanese culture is capable of," says Baba.

He puts it like this: "Fundamentally, I love playing games," he says, listing big Western franchises like Uncharted and Assassin's Creed among those he's played and enjoyed. "What we found is Tales fans in the West do tend to enjoy our games in the same way that Japanese players do, which really shows that the Tales franchise does differentiate itself from other games."

He doesn't want to shift toward more realistic characters -- instead, he'd rather stick with the anime style the franchise is known for, as it's "what we're good at, and what we've grown up with." And by the same token, don't expect the Tales of series to turn into Skyrim -- even if Xillia does have open world aspects that the franchise previously lacked.

The Core of the Tales of Franchise

"What's a very strong and important aspect for the development team is stability and comfort," says Baba. "We like our fans to know that when they pick up a Tales game that they have that comfort and stability in knowing that there's not going to be any fear of deviation. They know exactly what they're getting," even if the franchise does evolve from title to title, the team doesn't rock the boat too hard.

And here's what they get: "In developing an RPG, we really feel like there's two main points," says Baba. "The first one is making sure that it's a very strong story and making sure it's a story that people can relate with. The second part is the fun factor, which would be mainly the battle system because that's where the player gets involved with the game."

"Rather than going with a command-based system, we wanted to make a real-time, a lot more action-based, so that even people who aren't accustomed to RPGs can jump right in and enjoy," says Baba.

In fact, what has long set Tales of apart from many other games in the genre is its fast-paced, action-based combat -- something a mainline Final Fantasy game won't try until Final Fantasy XV releases on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

The other part of the Tales of equation is its large casts of characters. While this has been a fixture of the genre since the 1980s, the Tales of series, in particular, puts its emphasis on a broad but well balanced cast, with a strong lead at its center.

"We find that it's very important to make sure that every character in the party really stands out and has a distinct personality," says Baba. "By creating the main character, we're able to figure out how the dynamic works out with everybody and therefore that's how we create the cast and how they fit together."

"While we're developing the game, we want to make sure that it's very believable why the characters are interacting with each other, why they continue to interact with each other. So we want to make sure that we pace it out correctly so it becomes a believable, social interaction. So, for example, if a character betrays the cast, then there is extra shock, there is extra emotional value placed in that scene."






Comments


Mike Murray
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"Back then there was a lot of rivalry; there was a lot to look at compared to now. But now what really stands out is Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Tales. It's much more lonely."

I agree, and it sucks. At least Atlus is still producing solid JRPGs and filling in the void left by other devs such as Tri-Ace (Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile) and Konami (Suikoden). I'm concerned about what will happen to Atlus in the future, but I hope the JRPG well doesn't dry up completely.

Christian Nutt
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Atlus is roughly equivalent to PS1 Square now, and Square is roughly equivalent to, I don't know, Emperor Nero.

Michael Stevens
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@M.Murray
I wouldn't count Tri-Ace out yet, though I think a chunk of them did actually join Atlus a few years back. Resonance of Fate is still probably in the 5 best jrpgs/srpgs this gen, and I'm willing to bet that their half of FFXIII-2 was the good half.

@C.Nutt
PS2 Atlus =PS1 Square.
Atlus has been coasting on brand just as hard as everyone else, they're just sliding down from a more recent peak.

Abdullah Kadamani
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I'm sorry what? How is Atlus coasting on brand? Etrian odyssey 4 and SMT 4 were very well made, Their DS games before that were worthwhile, Devil Survivor being a personal favorite, Catherine was legitimately different ina good way and they have a larger fanbase then ever. Sure Index Media tanked but Atlus themselves have managed to thrive. Yeah the brand might help, but it isn't strong enough to sell poorly made or boring games as much as it gets people to look into it. They aren't Square Enix and god willing they never will be.

Michael Pianta
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I always thought it was Tales of Symphonia that really made this series prominent here. Certainly it was the most discussed/visible entry up until that time. No doubt the lack of RPG competition on the GameCube helped it stand out.

Christian Nutt
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Yeah, I'd actually agree, but it seems like what has given it a real boost lately is a mixture of a clear playing field (less competition this gen) and some high-quality games. I get the sense that they read more into the success of Vesperia and particularly Graces than other data points.

Dane MacMahon
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I quickly turned away from JRPGs as I left my teen years. I've been thinking of giving a modern one a try though, so maybe I will grab a random Tales title. Thanks for the article.

Christian Nutt
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Well, I would say Graces f if you want to go gameplay-focused (specifically battle) but if you care more about the whole package/story, go Vesperia. Vesperia is 360 exclusive, Graces f is PS3 exclusive.

Tales of the Abyss for the 3DS is actually quite good, easy to find, and also a nice whole package, too.

Xillia, the new game, I can't comment on yet (also PS3 exclusive.)

Abdullah Kadamani
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Fair warning, Tales of games tend to prefer a slow burn to character development, so if characters start out annoying you have to give it time and they (almost) always turn out to be well rounded. That being said either try Xillia (the writing is surprisingly good and the combat is great) or go for Vesperia. Graces is decent but one of the series lesser titles to be sure.

Ron Dippold
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I've been playing the Tales games since the PS1 days and I've been impressed with how much better they've held up than the Final Fantasy series after VI has.

Sure the plots are always totally cliche (even THE same cliche, except for a few feints), you always have the same mechanics, and the combat only gets updated at a glacial pace, but on the other hand the character development is great, I like the combat, and the games /know what they are/. I know what I'm getting (and about every other year I'm ready for it), the game knows what it needs to deliver, and except for one single awful misfire (Knight of Ratatosk) we always have a happy meeting. It's not as good as getting a new Suikoden or Persona, but those aren't frequent enough to fill the void.

Final Fantasy, meanwhile, has no idea what it is any more, and while experiment and change can be a great thing it lacks the discipline to not change everything at once and make sure things work as a whole. It really /wants/ to be an interactive movie, so the gameplay is seen as disposable and just something to delay you from getting to the next blockbuster cutscene. The big new thing for FFXIII: Lightning Returns, is that they've taken the one decent strong character they've had in years (okay, except the underutilized Sahz), inflated her breast size, and have her swapping skimpy costumes in mid battle for new 'powers' . Huzzah?

Cary Chichester
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Tales thankfully still manages to evoke a lot of the charm that JRPGs had in the 90s without having the stigma of feeling dated that the genre is known for. I am somewhat curious however on what would happen if they were a little more open to incorporating designs from western games. This has backfired on developers in the past with some examples being the linearity of Final Fantasy XIII and poorly-executed setpiece action sequences of Ninja Gaiden 3. However looking at the stark contrast between Final Fantasy XIV and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, as well as the debatably best JRPG this generation, Xenoblade, shows that looking at western games could open up potential for improvements if they were more open to change.

Sjors Jansen
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This feels so upside-down...

First, starting out with Tales of Destiny instead of Tales of Phantasia.
Why skip one of the biggest and last snes rpg's? (48 Mbit! If I remember correctly) It didn't get translated but that was bread and butter at the time right? Neither did secret of mana 2 (sd3), romancing saga etc..

And didn't Tales always cater more to western rpg fans instead of japanese because of its emphasis on direct action instead of menus?
Maybe if you look at it from a sales perspective or the anime looks, sure. But I wouldn't expect Baba-san to say that.

And no mention of the Wolfteam -> Tri-ace ruckus that happened when they founded the series strikes me as strange..
It makes Baba-san's perspective seem smaller than it should be imho. And more conservative because of it.
And I don't even want to get into the lonely development environment argument..

But in any case I'm happy to hear they don't feel the need to cater to western audiences. I hope they will keep co-op and direct control of the action in. That always seemed to me to be the backbone of this series and makes them worthwile to play pretty much regardless of story and looks.

Weird article/interview.
In what context was this done?

Richard Black
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I'm not bothering to wiki it to find out if I'm wrong, and I might be, but I don't think Tales of Phantasia actually released in the US. It was one of the many awesome Japanese games that companies passed on bring over, like half the Final Fantasies. It later got a couple different translations on ROM which is how I played it years ago a long with some other games that never made it and probably should, but that likely affected how well known it was.

Sjors Jansen
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Yeah the snes version didn't but one of the later ports probably did make it to the us. And yeah there were probably fan translations in the meantime.

It was probably too big a risk because of the expensive rom and the psx being fancy and new.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say..
That it's not part of the entries that had a bumpy road?
The first Tales lead to the formation of Tri-ace because "namco was meddling with development".

Maybe it was the only entry that did not have a bumpy road in regards to sales in japan? I dunno.. It just seems like an obvious oversight to me.

Matthew Mouras
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Phantasia did eventually release on GBA. That's where I played it for the first time.

Christian Nutt
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It was absolutely too big a risk because of the huge ROM and because it was so late (it came out post-PS1's western launch.) Remember, JRPGs were a huge risk UNTIL FF7. Total niche genre.

So they tried with ToD (post-FF7) and it tanked hard. So then they skipped the ToP PS1 version (it was the 2nd Tales of game for PS1.) And they dabbled here and there with the franchise, but it seems like Namco Bandai US is finally committed to the franchise now.

Otherwise, I think you make some rather odd suppositions..

"And didn't Tales always cater more to western rpg fans instead of japanese because of its emphasis on direct action instead of menus?"

There's a difference in meaning between "cater to" (deliberately being aimed at) and "likely appeal to." The action battles, yes, would appeal more to an average Western player than command battles in FF/etc but that doesn't mean that the games are catered to Western players. Clearly they aren't. I think that's blindingly obvious...

"And no mention of the Wolfteam -> Tri-ace ruckus that happened when they founded the series strikes me as strange.."

Why? I mean, why ask about it? It's ancient history and has nothing to do with what's going on with the franchise now. Sure, it's interesting trivia, but I don't see why I'd ask him about it when I'm trying to find out what's up in 2013.

Sjors Jansen
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Thanks for the reply.

As I said, I don't know what the context is of this article so I can't really discuss why questions should or should not be asked. If it's just catching up, it kind of comes off as marketing provided by Namco.
A reason why I think it would be interesting to bring up is because he takes this conservative stance. That kind of makes it a follow up question in my mind because it might have been very different had Tri-ace developed the series.
(Saying oh yeah we're not gonna change anything, is not exactly interesting to me. And I mean no offense with the whole tri-ace, namco thing, I'm not a huge fan of either. Just as a producer he would probably have some interesting thoughts on it. He should have thoughts on the series' potential in parallel dimensions right? :)

I used "cater to" because that's the word he used. But I'm not a native english speaker so.. fine.
I still think though that, in a game, the gameplay system defines what it is more than how you dress it up. So catering for markets, in the case of games, therefore leans more on gameplay than on dressing. Probably not by that much. But if you deny that, you deny what make games games right?
Then he could be talking about catering any random thing, a movie, a book, a comic or manga or coffee-flavored chocolate chip cookies. or something.

My point is, ridiculous stories about monsters and saving the world are just the background noise entertainment along for the ride. Par for the course, bring it on, whatever.

But of course, this is the perspective of a developer.. seeing hundreds of games passing by which are all the same basically.

Jonathan Lin
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I think the Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky games deserve a mention too.


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