I'm surprised. I swore this game was going to have 'strong language' but it only says language.
BioShock Infinite's religious themes led dev to consider quitting
By
Eddie Makuch, News Editor
Irrational Games developer so offended by scene in upcoming action game he wrote resignation letter (but did not quit); situation was a breakthrough for Ken Levine.
One Irrational Games developer was so offended by the religious themes of a certain scene in BioShock Infinite that he sought to quit the company immediately after completing his playthrough of the level.
"There was a scene in the game at the end where there's a gentleman here--one of our artists--who got to a point in the game, played it, turned off BioShock, opened up his computer, opened Microsoft Word, and wrote a resignation letter; it had offended him so much," Levine told GameSpot in a new video interview.
After it was brought to his attention, Levine spoke with this developer. His discussion with this "extremely religious guy" helped Levine better understand how to write the game's Comstock character, something he had struggled with for a long time.
"And I ended up having a conversation with him; my first impulse was I don't want this guy to go because he was a good guy and a talented guy," Levine said. "And we actually ended up having a long talk; he was an extremely religious guy and when we started talking, I realized that something I could connect to was a notion of forgiveness and what an important part that is of the New Testament and why Christ was such a revolutionary figure."
"I realized that something I could connect to was a notion of forgiveness and what an important part that is of the New Testament and why Christ was such a revolutionary figure."
"And thinking about how I would incorporate the power of that notion to Comstock into his world was, to me, the key. Because who hasn't done things that they don't want to be forgiven for?"
This developer did not end up quitting Irrational Games.
This was a breakthrough for Levine. He explained that writing Comstock, the religious, ultranationalist antagonist of BioShock Infinite, had been a long and difficult struggle due to his lack of personal religious knowledge.
"[Comstock] was one of the toughest characters for me to write because I don't have a religious background, let alone the darker side of his beliefs; the racist side of his beliefs. So I really had a lot of trouble writing him for a long time," Levine explained.
"And it occurred to me I had to figure out why do people follow him? That was the key to his character. Why do people follow him? What does he provide to them? And I struggled with that for a long time because obviously an ecstatic religious experience is something that a religious leader provides but I don't have a connection to as a writer," he added. "And it's always hard when you're trying to write something that you have never felt. And that would feel dishonest to me."
BioShock Infinite is due out on the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC on March 26. For more, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.
By
Eddie Makuch, News Editor
Eddie Makuch (Mack-ooh) is a News Editor at GameSpot. He works out of the company's Boston office in Somerville, Mass., and loves extra chunky peanut butter.
1544 comments
if a god exists, i hope its note the catholic one, he's a an asshole, lol i could write an entire text wall explaining this, but mehh.. better places to discuss this than a game forum... anyways this games looks awesome. :)
@Dragerdeifrit dont worry catholicism was created some 300 years after the death of christ and has been long know that all modern church takes what it wants from the dead sea scrolls to benefit them not man there a entire sections missing.
Baah, most atheists nowadays are sisies. Stalin, Mao Ze Dong, Pol Pot, Kim Jong il, now those were real badasses.
3 Like i am not gonna read any comment about this article, but i will say this and leave, stop trolling each other. like sexism, you can never have a productive argument about religion online. one side tries to defend religion and the other tries to bible bash ( but never the Quran) and be the edgy smart militant atheist like the believe in God and religion are one and the same.
1 Like Great. So let's never talk about anything that really matters because it is not productive enough for corteztheg...
Coming here, declaring that you have not read any part of this discussion, saying that discussing religion is stupid is the peak of ignorance.
@corteztheg I think the only reason that discussions like this online NEVER seem to go anywhere is because so few people are ever willing to concede a good point.
@Shanks_D_Chop @corteztheg Its not that people won't concede a good point its that there ISN'T a good point. For some people religion is a good thing, for others its not. It is a subjective and personal matter. You can't tell someone how to feel about it anymore than you can tell them who they should fall in love with. They have to make the decision on their own.
As said for some people religion is the right choice, for others its not, but you don't get a say in their choice.
@Celiria_Rose @Shanks_D_Chop @corteztheg I disagree and that's not really the point I was trying to make.
I don't believe that there is a definitively right or wrong side to a religious debate but there ARE good points and bad points. The comments on this topic make that very clear. A bad point is one based in ignorance whereas a good point is one based in reason. I don't think you have to agree with someone completely to accept that they make a good point. The good and bad points are not exclusive to one "side" of the argument, pro or anti religion.
2 Like It's not just online. The same phenomenon happens in person as well. A person you are debating might change their mind after the fact, but in the heat of the debate, most people will continue to argue even if they know that they're wrong.
@Lambentodo yeah i even proved my point with this guy that thought he was religous and new every thing. talk about getting his face craked but still he continued to argue.
@Lambentodo True, very true. Makes me sad... For me the moment in my life when I stopped thinking that I was always right and started to reason more... reasonably... was very... invigorating? Certainly enlightening... A huge relief in some ways, a massive pressure off.
It's that whole thing of actually listening and considering what the other person is saying instead of thinking about what one is going to say next.
1 Like I think this event is a good thing. Irrational was able to create a believable and intense villain has a goal. A goal where people can relate to and have a believable reason why the people follow him, despite how crazy he is. This seems like it'll be better than the first two BioShock games. Aside from the fact that the dark corridors of Rapture are gone.
The villain isn't just on a thirst for power, as Fontaine had in BioShock 1. He is set on something more: A belief. And if that belief is a religion, it makes him strive hard and have this initiative to win. I mean, just look at these comments below. They're on the right track for creating a great story.
1 Like This is not a website for debating religion. This article doesn't say "Religion is bad" nor does it say "Religion is good." So shut up and talk about BioShock Infinite or whatever other games you want. That way, we'll all be happy and not starting arguments against each other.
First off, athiests cannot convince religious people as they're already rooted in that belief, as their parents have taught them that their belief is true. They're extremely faithful to their religion, as they're doing just what the people closest to them told them. Second, religious people cannot convince atheists about their religion. Athiests have already been convinced and will definitely not go to religion due to the evidence that they found.
See, here, we all share an interest in gaming. We are here in GAMESpot. If we debate religion there's negativity and we'll just be enraged and stuck in a never ending argument. I do not think a topic as sensitive as religion will ever be won. No one will believe the opposing team, as they are biased and they have never been friends.
@UncookedMoa Your comment doesn't make any sense. This is an article that has less to do with gaming and more to do with religion; Therefore, discussing religion is an accepted fact here. You don't know religious people and what you say about not being able to convince them is something I would argue and for that you have offended both groups and accused them of having a close mind. I for example was born in an extremely religious family But as I grew older it all felt wrong so I've change my mind entirely on that matter and I know a lot of people who just like me stepped out of the mentioned religious society freely, and understandably.
There are ~1500 posts that say you are wrong.
GameSpot is a community and in a community you should be able to discuss anything you like without someone telling you to shut up.
@Gandaleon @UncookedMoa Alright, go ahead and debate about religion. Just trying to help. All this religion talk on a gaming website gets annoying to some people. Might cause another suicide case. (LOL?) I'll just be grabbing my suitcase then and heading to the next article.
Suicide?! What utter nonsense. Yeah, fly off little bird - somewhere where your little gamer world isn't threateneed by a grown-up conversation.
You're wrong about one thing. Atheists can very easily be convinced that religion is truth and that God is real. All we require is evidence.
1 Like @Lambentodo @UncookedMoa No one knows, there's far too many religions that I cannot keep track of. Is Zeus real? Maybe Odin? How 'bout Allah? Perhaps Jesus? Is there really no god? I think staying neutral is best. Being agnostic makes few people rage, as they don't rant on religion. Now, goodbye!
1 Like @UncookedMoa @Lambentodo You are right. But even if 7 billion people believe in a creator without any empirical evidence, we still do not need to consider their beliefs. It's like the Russell's teapot analogy. No one would ever be agnostic about such a teapot, yet replace the teapot with an anthropomorphic figure and suddenly we need to give reverence to that belief, and even change our view to be politically correct.
Most atheists actually are agnostic atheists. Few claim to know for a fact that there is no god. Most state that there is every possibility that god exists, but without evidence, there is no good reason to believe so.
3 Like Religion was invented in a time, when mankind did not understand the world. They were at nature's mercy. Creating gods to pray to was a way to influence these forces (in vain, of course). That gave them a feeling of security. The more knowledge we gained, the more we understood the goings-on of nature - the less we needed gods and magic. Nowadays, the religion still has appeal when it comes to the unknowns like death and the beginning of the universe etc. But one day we might find out the nature of those things, too and hopefully then we will abandon this childish yearning for safety.
Religion is a way of giving everything in the world a greater meaning, above all: your own existence. And I regard this as a bad thing, because this way you never look at the world as it is. People with this mindset don't want to understand - they are content on feeling important and comfortable.
Let me give you an example: Let's say there is a hungry beggar in the street. A rational person will look at him and ask: "Why is that man poor and hungry?". A religious person will say: "God tests this man" or "God tests me"because he/she is more interested in a magical plan in life then in really finding out what the cause of the problem is.
That is what I mean when I say believing is saying "Good bye" to rationality. And you can whine about it as much as you like - but if you choose believing (and thus comfort) over understanding (which can be scary) you should not complain if I call you irrational.
(Which doesn't mean that religious people can't be rational at all - it depends on what the subject matter is.)
enlightenment is defined as "the full comprehension of a situation" or "insight or awakening to the true nature of reality". By pplatt1 making a comment that is in and of itself arrogant and unsympathetic, then by extension, it is unenlightened as he does not have the full comprehension of that particular situation we are discussing, and lacks the insight to see the problem from the other persons point of view, and the distress it is obviously causing him. Ken Levine is the actual enlightened one, and a good boss at that because he was able to see the situation for what it was, help the distressed employee, and learn something from the entire situation as well as apply that experience to further progress the story and completion of this game. I hope this shows you how PPlatt1 was unenlightened.
2 Like I don't get offended by false portrayals of Christianity or even people bagging it, I only hate it when atheists try to point out that their 'smarter and more logical thinkers', it's so blatantly condescending and just plain rude (sometimes I even encounter people who I can just tell are atheist because it makes them look smarter), it can even makes me laugh sometimes to be honest.
Anyways, I just don't see why someone should get offended by something that's purely meant to entertain, it may contradict your religion but that doesn't make it real, its just someone telling a fictional story. The only time you should get offended is when someone calls you stupid for believing in what you believe in.
@alpha_unit97
Believers for the most part are highly rational and logical, the problem is that there is that one certain aspect of their lives in which they suspend logic and rationality.
For example, if you tell a religious man that his wife is cheating on him, he will demand to see some evidence before he'll believe it. But tell him that 2,000 years ago a man was born of a virgin, walked on water, and rose from the dead, and he believes that, no evidence needed.
1 Like @alpha_unit97 Yeah, because believing in talking snake and a boat carrying 16 million animals/organisms is a mark of intelligence.
@banana23man @alpha_unit97 How is Reddit doing for ya, pal?
You do realize that there are Christians out there who don't take EVERY single detail in the bible literally, right?
@fillup0 @banana23man @alpha_unit97 And that's what I'm trying to get at. See, people claim that the bible has the answer to our creation, morality and the afterlife, which implies that human cannot possibly derive answers to those issues anywhere else.
Let's take the issue of morality as example. If the bible is to be our moral guide, we need to take everything the bible says as true. So anyone who wears mixed fabrics can be put to death. But if you say "No, I'll just follow the good stuff, like love your neighbour...etc" then you are exerting your own judgement on what is right and what is wrong, rendering the bible obsolete. My point is, if the bible is supposed to be the answer to so many fundamental questions which we supposedly do not have the capabilities to answer on our own, we cannot deviate an inch from it.
2 Like To be fair, the guy who wrote Genesis probably never traveled more than a 50 mile radius away from his place of birth. It's perfectly reasonable to think you can fit "2 of every animal and 7 of every clean animal" on a boat the size of the Titanic when you are under the misconception that there only a few dozen species on the planet.
@banana23man@alpha_unit97Why do you keep twisting what Christians believe. Most christians believe in evolution, big bang etc.
Actually big bang theory was developed by a catholic priest. The scientific theory on the fine tuning of the universe is much more plausible for theism as well. Stop the repetitive straw man arguments and grow up.
@Lambentodo@registeredpunkYeah it's sad, just badly catechised. Non the less, although "official" then.
Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century already suggested the world to be older that what scripture says and that Adam and Eve are allegories. So the church had that question open all the time. Mainly because it would not actually change anything. God still created everything, does not matter how he did it.
Yes, but only recently. The Catholic Church did not officially accept evolution until 1996.
Even today, some 30% of Catholics still don't believe evolution, in spite of the Church officially endorsing it.
@Lambentodo @registeredpunk I totally agree with atheist about not teaching creationism in school. It's is a problem and catholism does support evolution and science for that matter.
@Lambentodo Oh, my bad, you're actually right. I was thinking of Kent Hovind's creation seminars when I last posted, but Craig's stance is a bit more nuanced. He pretends to not be a creationist whilst still denouncing evolution and taking typical creationist views every chance he gets, but he just brands it under the more palatable title of Intelligent Design. It's still not much less disingenuous.
If Craig has abandoned Creationism, it's a recent turn of events. I've seen debates in which he has vehemently defended "Intelligent Design", which is Young Earth Creationism rebranded.
1 Like No, I'm not cherry picking anything. You asserted that "most Christians believe in evolution", and I was setting you straight. Most don't, at least not in America.
I do believe that the Creationists present a much greater danger to society than do Christians who believe in evolution. Not only does half the country believe in Creationism, they're trying to get that nonsense taught in the public schools.
Louisiana and Tennessee both have passed laws making it legal to "teach the controversy" that evolution is a myth and that Creationism is a scientifically valid alternative theory. Texas is teaching the same thing without bothering to pass the law first. This is all completely unconstitutional, by the way, the Supreme Court ruled back in the 80s that you can't teach Creationism in public schools, but they're doing it anyway.
If anything, Christians such as yourself who believe in evolution, should be joining us atheists in fighting this Creationism nonsense. I mean, these people actually believe that humans were alive at the same time as the dinosaurs. Well, some of them believe that. Others simply believe that dinosaurs never existed at all, and that the fossils were planted in the ground by either God or Satan in order to test our faith.
As for Matt Dillahunty: He hosts a popular atheist TV show ("The Atheist Experience", Google it) and has reached out to William Lane Craig on multiple occasions offering to participate in a debate. Craig has never responded.
@Derpalon @registeredpunk Craig is not a young earth creationist. He said that if evolution is true, then is a very big miracle, which scientifically it pretty much is, just like the big bang.
@LambentodoSo yeah aren't you then the ones cherry picking your opponents? you rather discuss with young earth creationist etc. Than the ones embracing reason, science and philosophy. Oh can you give me a link where William craig refuses to debate Matt Dillahunty.
2 Like @registeredpunk William Lane Craig is a laughing stock of the academic community who believes in Young Earth Creationism, which is one of the most extreme forms of science denial. That's probably one reason Dawkins won't even waste his time with the man. Now if you're done hiding behind big names, I'd like to hear you address my points, seeing as they're obviously poor philosophy and you should be able to refute them without much effort I'm sure.
@registeredpunk
It's not a caricature. Roughly half the American population believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Talking snakes and all. You can't simply discount that fact because you dislike it.
Dawkins writes a good book but he's not a great debater. William Lane Craig is a joke, and he himself refuses to debate noted atheist debater Matt Dillahunty.
@registeredpunk @banana23man @alpha_unit97 I don't get the point of that comment. So you're avoiding our supposed weak arguments?
@banana23man@registeredpunk@alpha_unit97Damn stop using the caricatures of christianity then, and engage in a real discussion with those that now something about it. Have ever heard of guys like John lennox, William lane craig, Peter kreeft, Robert barron. Did you know Dawkins won't debate William craig after the beaten by Lennox. Have you seen how both William craig and lennox refuted Hawking's book, the grand desing. You guys are just escaping all these topics and great philosophers behind the back of "weak" caricature figures of chirstianity and spread your own poor philosophy.
1 Like @registeredpunk @banana23man @alpha_unit97 Please look at the stats posted by Lambentodo. Now, even if you overlook the percentage of creationist, having blind faith is still not a sign of intelligence.
I have a machine that will grant you everything you want when you die. I can't show you the machine. You just need to worship me and have faith. Right about now, a rational person would tell me to shove it.
@registeredpunk @banana23man @alpha_unit97
If they believe in those things, they dont believe in the Bibel, therefor they arnt really christians, but agnostics. It a huge difference,
1 Like @registeredpunk
If you're talking American Christians, that's simply not the case.
Gallup surveys show that 46%% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creationism -- that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and that humans were created instantaneously in present form.
Whereas only 32%% of Americans believe in God-guided evolution.
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BioShock Infinite
- Publisher(s): 2K Games
- Developer(s): Irrational Games
- Genre: Action
- Release: Mar 26, 2013 (US)
- ESRB: M
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