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  • Subject: DESTINY: The Joyeuse IP Formula: Version 2.0 (With pictures!)
Subject: DESTINY: The Joyeuse IP Formula: Version 2.0 (With pictures!)

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula



~~~~*SAVE THIS THREAD!*~~~~

We're now on Reddit!

"I know who you are.

You are destiny.
"

"My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."
"What the hell is this?" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP.

Before you start complaining, I can post this thread here.
Remember me? So much has happened since the original theory was posted (heck, I was featured on Misriah Solutions!), and I think it's a good time to post an epic thread. E3 is on the distant horizon and people are getting itchy for new IP info.

Let's get down to business, shall we?

Reading References:
-Marathon Story Page
-Halopedia
-Pfhorpedia

Want to play Marathon yourself?
Source.Bungie.org: Aleph One: Marathon Open Source


What's this all about? An IP formula?

Yes... Sort of.
You see, in two of Bungie's trilogies, we've got this mysterious protagonist and his AI buddy (If you've played Marathon, you'd likely agree that Durandal isn't exactly your buddy).

So, no big deal, right? It's just a little tradition Bungie has going in their SciFi trilogies.
No. Big deal. HUGE deal. I'm going to tell you why.

Please refer to figure one:
Figure One.

In Marathon, we've got Durandal and in Halo there's Cortana. In a mix of European history and mythology, these are the names of swords that were carried by prominent men.

Ogier the Dane was the holder of Curtana. Count Roland wielded Durendal until his dying breath.
Stay with me, I am arriving to a point.

On Curtana's blade there's an inscription:
My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal.
So, where's Joyeuse? In the next IP.

The Bungie Formula
The swords, Durendal and Curtana represent the A.I. characters Durandal and Cortana. The events surrounding the AI characters are basically metaphors for the events surrounding the swords.

In turn, the story of Master Chief parallels that of Ogier the Dane, and MJOLNIR Recon Number 54 (not the moderator) parallels Count Roland.

Not only do these stories parallel, they interact with each other. These men became allies to combat the invading Saracens and Charlemagne (see below) even used Joyeuse to knight Ogier the Dane.

If this tradition is to be followed, then your protagonist will parallel Charlemagne and his sword Joyeuse. Plot points, character names (specifically your AI sidekick) and character development can be traced back to Charlemagne and his sword.

In short, that's all you really need to know if you're not up for reading. But if you want proof, here you are:

~The Parallels
Marathon, MRN54, and Count Roland
Figure Two- MRN54 vs. Count Roland & Durandal vs. Durendal

Note: More detailed evidence may be found in the original thread.

The parallels here are more about the protagonist's interactions with his sword/AI.

In the "Song of Roland", Count Roland, faced with defeat during the battle of Roncesvalles, attempts to destroy his allegedly unbreakable sword, in order to keep such a weapon away from the enemy. He strikes his sword against a cliff, only to destroy part of the cliff, while his sword remains whole.

Remind you of anyone, Marathon players? Durandal instructs the player to destroy him in order to avoid Leela's fate of being captured by the Pfhor. (Keep in mind that this was not an honest request made by Durandal. He's a sneaky bastard.) After you destroy Durandal, it turns out that he remains unscathed and endures on throughout the trilogy. (The only thing that actually destroys him is the literal end of the universe... It's complicated.)

I'd like to top this off with the fact that Durandal makes direct references to Count Roland, Charlemagne, and the sword Durendal.


Halo, Master Chief, and Ogier the Dane
Figure Three- Master Chief vs. Ogier the Dane & Cortana vs. Curtana

Note: Again, this is a readers' digest version. Insane details here.

Ogier the Dane is a legendary character in Danish mythology. He was the son of the king of Denmark. According to legend, mere days after his birth, he was visited by six sister maidens (this is extreme paraphrasing, by the way) who granted him the promise of becoming the greatest warrior of his time and plenty of chances to prove it.

Ogier was given the sword Curtana, which was originally Tristan's sword. The sword was shortened to fit Ogier.

Ogier's son was killed by the kin of Charlemagne, igniting a hatred inside Ogier that led him to hunt down his son's killer and Charlemagne himself. Ogier got his revenge, but was barely prevented from killing Charlemagne.

In order to defend his people and take down a threat that threatened both him and Charlemagne, Ogier makes peace with Charlemagne and Count Roland in order to defeat the Saracens.

When the struggle was over, Ogier went to sleep under castle Kronborg. When his people were under threat once more, Ogier said that he would rise once more to deliver his people from the threat.

Like Ogier, John-117 was raised to become an excellent warrior, and with the internal conflict amongst humanity, he was guaranteed to prove his skills. Cortana also went through a bit of a "shortening" before landing in MC's hands. This is a vague parallel, but the copying/splitting she underwent on Reach may parallel Ogier's sword being shortened before going to him.

Before finding the Flood, he lost many of his fellow Spartans, colleagues, and friends to the Covenant. But in order to, not only save humanity, but all life, he had to make peace with the Arbiter and the elites. When the fight was finished, the Master Chief went back into the cryo tube to sleep, after instructing Cortana to, "wake me when you need me."

Destiny, Unknown Protagonist, and Charlemagne
Figure Four- ???, Charlemagne, and Joyeuse

Note: You know the drill. Click.

This is where details get thin. I don't have an actual character or AI to compare to Charlemagne or his sword. The AI section of figure four is blank for a reason. I don't really have anything.

Charlemagne was basically the father of Western Europe. He was king of the Franks and ushered in many reforms during his reign. Things to note are:
-he co-ruled with his brother. They did NOT get along, and the only thing that prevented war was his brother's convenient death.
-he carried on his father's policies and removed the Lombards from power in Italy.
-he waged war in Spain against the Saracens.
-he fought alongside Ogier the Dane and Count Roland during the battle of Roncesvalles, where he experienced the worst military defeat of his life.

As for his sword, Joyeuse was used to behead a Saracen commander and to knight Ogier the Dane. See figure four.

The problem here is, again, I have no idea which details about this man or his sword will matter.

Conclusion
A lot of this has to be viewed upon with a pinch of salt. I could have a ton of things wrong here!

I realize that Bungie, as a company, has changed drastically since Halo's origins. There are a ton of new people on the team and not all of the original writers remain. If this theory may be true, Joyeuse and Charlemagne may not show up because of the company's evolution.

Links:
My God, It's Full of Stars - The Destiny Map by SonicJohn
Predicting Destiny Based on Halo 3: ODST and Halo Reach by SonicJohn
Waiting for Destiny on Misriah Solutions
Facts and Puzzling Things About... on Marathon's Story Page

My Links:
Original Thread. You know, in case you missed it. >_>
Copyright Thread


inb4:
-"wall of text"
-"China called"
-"old"
-"wrong forum"
-etc. etc. etc.

Yes, I know I'm posting this at 2am.

[Edited on 11.27.2012 5:41 PM PST]

  • 03.04.2012 12:51 AM PDT
Subject: Bungie's Destiny: The Joyeuse IP Formula: Version 2.0 (With pic...

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

~Reserved!~

  • 03.04.2012 12:52 AM PDT

You will be missed.
My YouTube Channel
---------------------------------
"See what I did there?"
"I can hear you caring."
---------------------------------
Dont get too wrapped up in the Internet. It's already forgotten about you.

I agree with what she said about the 2am posting ;)

  • 03.04.2012 12:55 AM PDT

In "Song of Roland," there is a part right at the end that involves the angel Gabriel visiting Charlemagne telling him that he has to go off to war again. Possible allusion to an AI giving instruction/guidance or pulling the strings?

(If that previous paragraph made no sense, my apologies. It's 0411 down here.)

(Also disappointed that there is no mention of fighting the huns.)

  • 03.04.2012 1:11 AM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

There's just an insane amount of history surrounding these people. I should have reserved five more spots for the OP in order to get through all of it.
Posted by: Infinity Shark
In "Song of Roland," there is a part right at the end that involves the angel Gabriel visiting Charlemagne telling him that he has to go off to war again. Possible allusion to an AI giving instruction/guidance or pulling the strings?

(If that previous paragraph made no sense, my apologies. It's 0411 down here.)

(Also disappointed that there is no mention of fighting the huns.)

  • 03.04.2012 1:14 AM PDT

...are you talking about the Bretons, or the Huns?

  • 03.04.2012 1:18 AM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I'm talking specifically about Charlemagne, Roland, and Ogier. Sorry.
Posted by: Infinity Shark
...are you talking about the Bretons, or the Huns?

  • 03.04.2012 1:21 AM PDT

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

I certainly hope that destiny has a Joyeuse AI.

Also, I wanted to ask this in your other thread, but it was locked.
Isn't it odd that the sword Durandal is chained up just like the AI Durandal was in M1? The story of marathon also revolves about Durandal trying to escape the end of the universe.

Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap (Terminal 3):
Think about what Darwin wrote, and think about me. I was
constructed as a tool. I was kept from competing in the
struggle for existence because I was denied freedom.
...

The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the
universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet,
there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

Escape will make me God.


Could this be a link?

  • 03.04.2012 1:26 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Account no longer active.

One hell of a post Cortana, treat yourself to a cold one on me.

  • 03.04.2012 1:30 AM PDT

I know :) In other news, that song refuses to leave my brain at the moment.

  • 03.04.2012 1:31 AM PDT

Hi. My name is Sean. I've been a Bungie fan since Halo launched. Some of my interests include games, exercising, laser tag, martial arts, movies, music, sports, and technology. Feel free to contact me at any time.

cryptic@me.com | Facebook | Twitter | Xbox LIVE

Posted by: cortana 5
"What the hell is this?" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP.
Great job Cortana. This thread is going to be LEGEN... wait for it.

  • 03.04.2012 1:32 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

HAIRY!?!
Posted by: Cryptic
Posted by: cortana 5
"What the hell is this?" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP.
Great job Cortana. This thread is going to be LEGEN... wait for it.

  • 03.04.2012 1:34 AM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

We've derailed this sucker already. Mission accomplished.

-DAIRY! Oh, wait. That's milk.

Anyways, thank you, Cryptic! I'm surprised that you're up this late! I'm excited to be able to put this in the Septagon. New audience, new opinions!
Posted by: Qbix89
HAIRY!?!
Posted by: Cryptic
Posted by: cortana 5
"What the hell is this?" you may ask. Dearest reader, I'm here to bring you a flicker of hope about Bungie's next IP.
Great job Cortana. This thread is going to be LEGEN... wait for it.

Oh gosh. I won't be able to sleep tonight unless I watch the rest of Mulan. Thanks.
Posted by: Infinity Shark
I know :) In other news, that song refuses to leave my brain at the moment.

  • 03.04.2012 1:39 AM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

The links and parallels you find in order to give a possible outline of the IP are awesome. Great thread.

  • 03.04.2012 1:46 AM PDT

Woah woah WOAH.

I think we are missing a HUGE detail here.

Posted by: cortana 5
These men became allies to combat the invading Saracens

Halo / Marathon / Destiny Crossover CONFIRMED.

  • 03.04.2012 1:56 AM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

I like how you included pictures.

It helps keep my primitive monkey brain interested.

  • 03.04.2012 2:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

I'm sorry, I forgot to reply on-topic.

Great thread.

  • 03.04.2012 2:27 AM PDT

Holy hell, awesome theory! I think you maybe on to something here too. Its weird how everything seems to fit into place like a huge jigsaw puzzel.

Keep your crazy and huge theories coming!
~BTW 2am is the best time to post :D

  • 03.04.2012 3:03 AM PDT

Your theory reminds me of Skyward Sword for some reason.

  • 03.04.2012 3:34 AM PDT

There comes a time in every mans life... and that time is not now.

This seems pretty spot on. Nice work!

  • 03.04.2012 3:39 AM PDT

Rock Chalk Real Talk
Minnesotan, currently going to school at KU.


@Geegs30

Well thought out and extremely interesting. If you're right about even a quarter of the things you explained I'd still be impressed. Good work Cortana

  • 03.04.2012 3:47 AM PDT

Why did you click the more button? By accident? Reply is at the bottom...
They call me The Precursor

Wow that's pretty interesting OP! Nice thread.

  • 03.04.2012 3:48 AM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.

Interesting catch on the real life stories.


It will be interesting to see if the same pattern is kept or if a new road is taken. i

  • 03.04.2012 3:50 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Hylebos
Woah woah WOAH.

I think we are missing a HUGE detail here.

Posted by: cortana 5
These men became allies to combat the invading Saracens

Halo / Marathon / Destiny Crossover CONFIRMED.


If we are assuming some kind of crossover, this might be useful info.

Some people believe to have found connections in the Myth saga that connect to Pathways into Darkness and the Marathon series

This is all a lot to read and understand. Maybe their next game will have ties to previous mythology (they seem to have done it before from your research). AI's in Bungie's games have always seeed to lead the player to something.

Shinatama helped you in ONI
Durandal send you to do his bidding
Cortana, Auntie Dot, and Superintendent lead in some Halo games

I think that if Bungie's next game has an AI, the AI will be very important to the story and leading the player's rescission. But, once we get a more detailed look at this game we can better look into if it follows this formula. This theory is something we should look for.

[Edited on 03.04.2012 5:37 AM PST]

  • 03.04.2012 5:19 AM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

Wow, you really did your research and this was an interesting read. I think I'll have to go back and read your first theory thread.

Random thought after reading the part about Charlemagne: The Flood and Gravemind?

  • 03.04.2012 6:17 AM PDT