Kickstarted game halted as devs quit
Development on Haunts: The Manse Macabre stalls as programmers walk away; creator promises refunds, believes game can still be made.
Development on the successfully Kickstarted Haunts: The Manse Macabre has stopped, as programmers on the project have quit. Developer Mob Rules Games head Rick Dakan posted an update to the game's project page to reveal both programmers have left the studio, taking up jobs at Google and elsewhere. Neither developer is able to work on the game in their spare time.
The Kickstarter campaign for Haunts surpassed its $25,000 target, and closed at $28,739 over the summer. This money has been spent, Dakan said, "but I will personally refund out of my own pocket anyone who wants to withdraw their support, no questions asked." Those seeking refunds can email Dakan directly through his email address listed on the Kickstarter website.
"We’re going to make this game, and if you can hang on for what looks to be a long road ahead, we will get it finished," he said. "But that’s not what I asked you to sign up for and it’s not what you gave us money for. email me directly through Kickstarter if you would like your pledge refunded."
Kickstarter has previously stated that it will not get involved with refunds.
"This has been an emotionally rough couple of months for me, as I’ve invested almost all of my time for the past year or more in Haunts, along with my own money and reputation," Dakan continued. "It’s been terrible to watch it fail despite best efforts, but the failure is mine. There are scores of decisions I’d make differently if I had to do them over, and there were bets I made knowing the risks that haven’t paid off like we needed them to."
Dakan added that the game is nearing completion, but it contains many bugs. And without much programming experience, neither Dakan nor the game's artist, are able to clear these issues out without the help of more knowledgeable individuals.
"With no one left on the project who is capable of implementing those changes and debugging them during testing, the game is in a very patchwork state," Dakan said. "In some cases, levels that once worked fine now have serious issues. Fixing those issues would require fixes both to the level programming and the core system programming, working in tandem."
Despite the troubles, Dakan said he remains invested in bringing Haunts to market, and is currently talking to Blue Mammoth Games about a deal. However, even if this deal does go through, there is no promise that Haunts will be finished.
"These new potential partners won't be able to make the decision for a few weeks at least and then after that it would be months before anything came out. Still, I think it's out best shot at this point," he said.
Below is a video of Haunts in its current form.
Eddie Makuch (Mack-ooh) is a News Editor at GameSpot. He lives in Connecticut, works out of the company's New York City office, and loves extra chunky peanut butter.
Ouya
Kickstarter is laughable crowd funding website where investors that know nothing about games, take part in
These kickstarters are nothing but an investment. Investments always carry risks. People should really examine who they choose to support, and more importantly, WHY they support them before just opening their wallet. In this situation it's nice that refunds are available since that's not always the case, but people shouldn't get this false sense of security that that will always be the case.
Kravyn81 An investment without equity.
mlcarter815 Not in the traditional sense, no. I guess the equity would be in the form of receiving the game for free since that's essentially what people are contributing to.
Kravyn81 Right, that's Kickstarter's substitute.
A lot of people either don't understand or more likely don't believe the risks in backing on Kickstarter. People go on about removing the greedy publishers from the equation (and then often some hyperbole about Call of Duty) but the primary role of publishers is absorb risk, remove them from the equation and where does the risk go? What Kickstarter does is let the customers chose to shoulder some of the risk. That's not a bad thing but people need to accept that's really the main thing it does, it's not a pre-order service. The kind of projects that go to kick starter are inherently risky because they've already been passed over by publishers and probably other means of funding or they are so small that they are prone to exactly this kind of personnel issues.
The problem with this particular instance of a Kickstarter funded project running into trouble isn't so much that it's particularly bad it's that it's not really offset by a mass of tangible success stories. In terms of games actually delivered the only one I'm aware of FTL.
Kickstarter doesn't just function of trust but faith. For project eternity if you look at backing for near or under retail price that accounts for more than two third of the backers but under one third of the funding. In fact about half over 1.5 million of nearly 4 million it got through kick starter came from less than a tenth of the backers. If that faith gets shaken then the mass who thinks it's a pre-order service will thin but more serious the small minority donating frankly stupid amounts of money may well dry up.
I'm not saying crowd funding is bad or that it is doomed but that we are near the peak of what it will achieve in gaming. So far it's been up and up as it has only had success stories of projects getting funded. The gritty reality of even a minority of these projects falling through, even honestly is something it hasn't had to contend with yet. Worse yet imagine the loss of faith if some one just out right stole from Kickstarter. Personally I have funded several projects but when I did I was square with the possibility of the money I donated just being gone and that meant I funded less than I otherwise would have.
Personally, I would submit to a Kickstarter that didn't necessarily promise a game, but rather tried to get the attention of a bigger studio.
Idea pitching is what we need, not necessarily contributing to the direct development. The developer asking for money hat-in-hand directly to the consumer base can lead to situations like the above. But if you could swing...say Epic Games by using a Kickstarter in order to gather resources to maybe submit to them a working prototype with art assets and concept art to go along with it, I'd be in favor of that.
Crowd-funding cannot be the sole bottom line of a game's development backing unless it's fairly low-key. Marketable games need people with industry connections to actually flesh out and promote the game once it's under way.
I'm surprised so much of the negative backlash here is focused on Kickstarter and not the developers themselves. Crowd-sourcing shouldn't be the sole means to finance a game (which is what it sounds like these guys tried to do) but it can make the difference between a groundbreaking idea forever left in limbo by cautious publishers and a tangible game.
What a legend! Kickstarter is such an awesome platform for making creative games, but game development comes with risks, and with those risks comes the opportunity for negative people to try and destroy a good thing before it has a chance to prove what it is capable of.
With honest developers like these though, willing to man up and be honest with their backers, it should be fine.
And this is why Kickstarter is not a sustainable way to fund projects. I knew from the beginning that there was going to be issues with people giving away their money on a promise.
When more people start feeling the emptiness of those promises, Kickstarter may die. Not saying this for sure, but I really would not be surprised. Only large and established companies would gain any traction.
Kinda sounds like he got hosed by his staff. Did they take the money and run (without completing the assignment for which they were paid, I mean)?
Hopefully some other programmers will step in to help him finish his project. Lots of talented folks have donated their talents to open-source software, so why not this?
theKSMM
Going by the statement on the Kickstarter page the man knew his two programmers would only be available to him for a limited time (until they found steady jobs).
Why did the programmers leave if it was almost finished?
hemoleech
Because they got full time jobs.
That sucks. It's cool he is offering refunds "no matter what if people request it" (paraphrasing) but not cool they gave up on it.
Is this the moment people start reconsidering kickstarters? Maybe, I hope not but maybe. I have been wondering who it will be- who will be the guy that kills people's want to crowd fund games?
So two guys are given 25,000 dollars by fans to create a game. All of which has gone and now the developers have quit.( 'Quitting' your own game = giving up )
So where exactly has that money gone? Judging by the gameplay videos, not on the game.
So how exactly is he going to come up with 25,000 dollars?
I think scam is too strong a word, more like idiots who have no idea what they are doing. Selling the ideas to gamers without any thought as to how to put it together. Anyone can do that.
Christ if it were ideas that made the game I'd be a millionaire by now.
Vozlov If people who have no idea what they are doing can get a job with Google, I guess there is hope for the rest of us.
How is it a scam if he is giving refunds?
NiteX
He says he's going to offer refunds, and I'm sure he has every intention of doing so now, but frankly I'd be surprised if he's actually able to come up with all the the money to give refunds if a large percentage of people who funded it ask for refunds. As he stated himself - the money that people funded for the project has already been spent, so any refunds will come out of his own pocket. $28k is a lot of money to try to come up with out of one's own pocket.
Nice guy.
I've only kickstarted the major projects lead by developers I know. Much less risk that way.
But at least he's offered refunds, so I can't really fault the leader of this project. And who knows, it still might get completed.
This is really bad and MAD NEWS, we can't trust even kicksart PPL? damn it this world sucks i Feel robed i can imagine how ppl feel who Donate money to this project.
wexorian Sounds like you've never heard about the stock market before. Kickstarter is an investment site. You invest in projects you believe in. Some will flop, some will succeed. That's just how life is.
theshonen8899 wexorian
The difference is when you invest on the stock market you get an ownership stake in the company you're investing in. You have some say-so in its future and how it's handled. Comparing Kickstarter to the NASDAQ is a poor analogy.
theshonen8899 its not the stock market at all. That's where a lot of the misconceptions seem to come in. Kickstarter is just people pan handling. You hold no claim to what happens with the money you spend and technically they are not legally obligated to give you anything in return.
cornbredx theshonen8899
Take a look at this pic.
https://ksr-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/creator-responsibility.png
starduke theshonen8899 That does not make them legally obligated. Much like a EULA it's not technically legally binding.
Damage reputation, indeed. It most certainly will. And the internet doesn't forget. I'm not saying their is no risk for the proposer but the legal risk (while I bet people would sue most definitely) may be less I think the bigger risk is your reputation if you actually cared about that.
BTW, just in general, I wanted to add I have backed several projects. I do so with no expectation for them to succeed. I look at it more like really big tips (to help them out), though, and it is considered as much on a tax form.
I can honestly say I've never felt less sorry for people getting scammed. Fools.
Seriously, to all those saying "it's not a pre-order", "you're not buying anything" etc - how many really think people would put their money into a Kickstarter projects if no product was offered? Do you think anybody would fund a project that said "give us money now, $10, $15, $20, what you can afford, and if when finish the project and get it published you'll then have the incredible opportunity to purchase the game at full retail"?
worlock77 Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order, something you clearly don't understand. Kickstarter is a chance for people to get funded for creative ideas. Instead of relying on giant corporate publishers, Kickstarter allows developers to pitch an idea to the world. But as with ALL game pitches, some will flop, some will succeed. This is the same thing publishers have had to deal with for years. The only difference now is that consumers actually get a choice, and it's up to them to make the right ones.
theshonen8899
Again, do you really think people would fund these projects if they were not being offered a product for their money?
worlock77 Hell no! If there wasn't something they could get out of it, then I doubt very much anyone would fund a Kickstarter. They even have a rule about no "fund my life" projects, so there's no "give me money just because I need it" on there. It's give me money so I can do this thing, and you get this reward, and, because you funded it, one of them is usually a copy of the game, or movie, or book, or whatever the project was. At the same time, you aren't buying anything, and you aren't investing in anything, you're Kickstarting it!
worlock77 The companies don't have to reward the product that they make. They can reward anything they want that is deemed reasonable. The rewards are to make up for the laws that prevent people from buying equity with low sums of money.
mlcarter815
No, they don't have to rewards you with the product they make. They don't have to reward you with anything. They're not even under any obligation to actually make anything for that matter. But you know as well as I do that nobody would fund a Kickstarter project without the offer of the product being promoted. That's why people do it because they want that game/album/movie/whatnot. This means that in effect, yes, people do essentially use it like a pre-order service.
I think he should just pitch/sell this to bethesda or cdprojekt.............at least your creation will be immortalized (third or 1st person view rather than top down view).
...by the looks of things this could be an app for an iphone or facebook game so zynga might be interested.........
Scam and they felt bad or something.
With Kickstarter you are taking a risk. With the people posting the project to get funding, it's that you won't get funded. With the people funding the project it's that something will happen (if the project get's funded) that the project won't get done. That's why it should be seen more as a gift then an investment when you fund something on Kickstarter. If the project succeeds you'll get rewards. Most games funded thru Kickstarter have copies of the game as a reward, so it could be seen as a pre-order, but at the same time, you're giving them the money, not buying the game. You also aren't investing in it. If you want to invest it, actually invest it, there are plenty of game companies you could buy stock in. You should only fund a project on Kickstarter with money that you are willing to give.
Well, that sucks that the programmers quit. Shtuff happens. It says more about them then it does Kickstarter. And, WOW, he says he'd actually refund the money if people wanted it!
People are so obsessed with "games" or so bored with their life that will pay for almost ANY "game".
Smart people use that and profit
This Kickstarter thing is just a big fat scam.
GeorgeSyll Hence the large numbers of mundane games. In the world of indie development there are many half-baked ideas that fail in some way. A few exceptions of course but I've noticed the indie game world is now flooded with retro platformers. We criticise the big games companies for making one sequel after another and churning out endless FPS wargames but even in the world of indie games people are trying to milk the cow's udders and making what everyone else is making... platformers. In this case however we have the world's ugliest isometric game so at least this is a little different. It could have been promoted as world's ugliest game and people may have bought it on that basis? As you say.... people are bored and they will play anything.
feathers632
Actually, if I had to guess (based on my own limited programming knowledge) they make platformers more often because they're easier to code with only a few people and limited funds.
Reminds me of thoses Sega Saturn / PSOne games... i cant remember the title for the life of me. I hope they can find a few programmers with evenings to spare.
Just my rule of thumb for those with enough education to learn computer programming skills: Go to mom & dad for your development money if it's less than $50,000.
It saves time in all the mass emailing on the front and back ends, spares you a gazillion mini-transactions and they'll still love you even if the game sucks.
Just a thought...
BravoOneActual My mom and dad are poor, just on the edge of the poverty level. They would love to help me out in my projects, and they do what they can, but they sure don't have $50,000 or even close to that. Which is why sites like Kickstarter, Indiegogo and Rockethub are great, they let people who don't have money connect with people that do and fund projects.
starduke And mullen1200 Not entirely serious in my statement, my good fellows. Even my father who runs a small business ain't got the rocks to lend that that kind of hand. Just being a smarty-pants forum dweller.
Even Forbes covers this particular story and it's clear that: a.) This Dakan fellow is a nice guy, but b.) he was extremely naive (in his own words) to have set himself up for this.
The real programming talent was making a pittance trying to get this game out the door and, reading between the lines, he had his own personal burn rate, so he took a better paying job while giving Mob Rules a most generous heads up in the form of long-term notice.
It simply wasn't enough time.
Fear not, though, because any pub is good pub. I suspect this isn't the last we've heard from "Haunted".
BravoOneActual Without jumping off the deep end here and going on a long rant... Who the hell has that kind of money for a random investment like a video game? I was born upper middle class and the thought of going to my parents for 50 grand is ridiculous.
BravoOneActual I already tried this when Mitt Romney suggested it earlier this year. My parents are still laughing...
theKSMM it didnt go to well on my end either... but hey since corporations and banks are people too you think maybe they might understand my plight and give me some help?
did i go back in time to 1996?
SeptuagintXXX Looks more like 1986 to me. Even i can draw better art style than this game. With MS paint and mouse.
Hot Stories
Newsmakers
-
Nintendo investigating Wii U manufacturer after child labor admission
Mario maker looking into operations at Foxconn following the company's admission of utilizing children under 16. Full Story
- Posted Oct 18, 2012 10:05 am PT
-
Cyberpunk 2077 detailed
CD Projekt Red's new RPG renamed, will feature sandbox environment; GOG now available on Mac with pay-what-you-want pricing for Interplay games. Full Story
- Posted Oct 18, 2012 12:06 pm PT
Featured Stories
-
$150 BioShock Infinite 'Songbird' edition revealed
Top-tier bundle for Irrational Games' new shooter to include 9.5-inch Songbird statue, art book, lithograph, digital wares, and Handyman miniature; $80 Premium Edition includes everything except statue. Full Story
- Posted Oct 18, 2012 5:51 am PT
-
Wii U Black Ops II denied Elite support
Free online platform for newest Call of Duty will not support Nintendo's new console at launch; Activision currently "evaluating options." Full Story
- Posted Oct 17, 2012 11:50 am PT
-
Criterion: 'We will make another Burnout game'
Creative director Craig Sullivan confirms studio will "at some point" make new entry in series; teases company may develop Road Rash game next. Full Story
- Posted Oct 17, 2012 8:26 am PT
-
Starhawk dev lays off half its staff
LightBox Interactive confirms it has laid off 24 staff as part of shift towards making games for iOS devices. Full Story
- Posted Oct 18, 2012 4:29 am PT
-
Epic hires former WB Games manager
Gears of War studio brings on Laura Fryer as general manager at newly established Seattle studio to "direct strategic goals." Full Story
- Posted Oct 18, 2012 7:35 am PT
Submit News
Recent News
-
Only select games will support chat through third-party headsets plugged into GamePad headphone jack; Pro Controller option even more involved.
