Torchlight II out Sept. 20

 SeptuagintXXX i'm guessing your new to this whole gaming thing

 SeptuagintXXX It looks like D2 with updated graphics made by the same developers as D2 (and others ofc) with REAL Single Player mode, with familair talent trees and final stage bonusses of these talent, with not 4 but 6 player co op gameplay and randomly generated dungeons.

 deathstream i'm getting both of them.

 bloody-hell i skipped D3 as well, so glad i did, it turned out to be such garbage

 Darkhol0w to be honest, i have never took release dates into consideration when deciding if i want a game or not, it is possible to play more then one game at a time

 Darkhol0w but i like your comment all the same

 chadwick1343 hahaha!

 raahsnavj ORLY?

TL 1 was a SINGLE dungeon, with no multiplayer.

BL 1 had everything.

Sounds to me like your broke, and care nothing for the amount of actual content you get.

 GamespotAudio No it is simple economics. Why pay $60 for something I can wait on a few months and get for $30? It's not like there are a bunch of games I don't have on my backlog or anything that I can't play in the mean-time.

I'm actually pretty excited for Borderlands 2, the first was one of my favorite shooters and all. But in the comparison I like to support companies that don't treat me like a money tree willing to soak up anything they produce in however many increments they want.

 raahsnavj  GamespotAudio Did you play any of the DLC for the original Borderlands? Cause all of them kicked ass and were definitely worth $10 a piece. Gearbox is done with BL2 and they don't have a whole lot else going on. So what's wrong with them saying that they're going to be devoting time to create more content for a game that is already massive? They're just doing everyone a favor by offering a Season Pass, saves you ten bucks.

 comb5  raahsnavj  GamespotAudio i despise dlc because it should just be included with the game or sold as an addon but i agree with you when you say the dlcfor borderlands kicked ass.

zombie island of dr ned and claptrap revolution was awesome!

 raahsnavj I think it's unfair to compare the two games that are of course similar in mechanics, but I feel there is more to it than meets the eye here. 

I think the 2 companies have used different approaches in development, and for one I believe in terms of sheer texture detail there is far more work in Borderlands than Torchlight. Graphics of course do not make a game, but that doesn't change the fact that the work has to be done. Do you not agree that the models are bigger in BL2 just because you are in a first person perspective?

I won't pretend to know what it is like to develop either of these games, because I don't, but common sense tells me that developing these 2 titles are completely different, and as such they differ in cost. The 2 studios are very different in size, and I feel that the man power needed to complete a project like Borderlands is far greater, and thus probably the increase in cost.

I will also admit that Gearbox is far more capitalist and perhaps less consumer friendly than Runic Games is, so of course there is a factor of greed here no doubt, as the market is full of $60 titles @ the AAA level.

I played the Torchlight 2 closed beta as well and I really liked it.  Though I feel that it will not be as long as Borderlands in length. End game is a different story again.

Both will definitely be great titles, but I just hope you may put some thought into the fact that production in BL2 is more than likely more costly. That doesn't mean TL2 is bad, in fact i really enjoyed playing all the classes in TL2 CB.

For example the game Journey by thatgamecompany was an excellent game which only lasted me 1.5 hours beginning to end, and I spent $15 on that. I have no regrets there.

 saucex4 The important part of that comment to me is the note of how this is what AAA does. You are right and there is only one way to tell AAA to stuff it and that is to not buy it until it is the price or value one wants. I'm pretty sure I'll get both eventually, but I see no reason to rush into BL2 since their DLC announcements and the history that their last release didn't go so hot right out of the gate. 

And on a side note, I don't think cost to make is a valid reason to pay more for something. It could cost a crap ton to make FPS game 'X' but that doesn't mean it should be worth more by default. 

I do want to say I appreciated your comment - it is good to see others views in a well thought out manner. 

 raahsnavj I personally have some problems with their DLC season pass due to the fact it doesn't actually tell you what you get; however, DLC model in theory is something I do not have a problem with (again there are many companies out there that take advantage of this model to no end).

On the topic of value, it's very much personal preference I feel. The value you see in a particular title, could be completely different from what I see. I see value in Borderlands and it's additional content; however, you may not, and that's perfectly fine.

From a consumer standpoint I can see where the cost of something should be irrelevant to what the consumer pays for, especially when you have items that sell millions of copies. However, from a corporate standpoint as a company you would want to cover your costs. Companies like Gearbox are corporations, and they are in the game for profit. In fact United States corporations are bound by law to be profitable and do the bidding of their shareholders. They are also inhibited to be socially responsible by law in some areas. 

So the problem here is much deeper than just AAA level and DLC; Corporate Law itself is what makes companies do this in conjunction with greed. So you are right when it comes to wanting to changing the gaming market, you have to talk with your wallet, which affects corporate profits, otherwise nothing gets done. I am an advocate of that regardless what our differences are in valuation of games.

 saucex4  raahsnavj "I personally have some problems with their DLC season pass due to the fact it doesn't actually tell you what you get; however, DLC model in theory is something I do not have a problem with (again there are many companies out there that take advantage of this model to no end)."

yeah no douvt.

i bough the gears of war 3 season pass for all the dlc at a discount holiday sale and it was still a total ripoff. i'll never do it again.

 BuzzLiteBeer Lol that's probably why I prefer Torchlight over Diablo, the art style is more inviting and pleasant. 

 parkurtommo  BuzzLiteBeer It's obvious the games nowadays are designed for adolescent kids and all the mature ratings are just ratings. Parents still buy those games for adolescent kiddos.

 BuzzLiteBeer Meh. I wouldn't write it off so easily. Torchlight used the same art style, and it really impressed me in places. Either way, this game will be a lot of fun! For $20 it's a steal.

 BuzzLiteBeer I usually don't go in for the cartoon look but it was done really well in Torchlight.