Prayers!!! We have been married almost eight years and my husband started grad school the month after we got married and we are just nearing the end of it…..Four kids later. I too have/had PPD and we have had our fair share of struggles along the way. My advice to you is to really make an effort to find some other women in the same situation as you and plan fun activities with them and the kids. We lived in student housing so there were plenty to be had there. Plan cheap or free outings and GET OUT OF THE HOUSE as much as you can. Look at parks, libraries, natural beauty, etc. Try to get yourself to exercise. You can find a lot of help as far as getting discounts as a student family too, from discounted memberships to the gym, to WIC, to activities offered through his school, etc. Try to be resourceful. Remember that all the long hours are hard on him too and make little mini-dates for study breaks for him- a cup of tea and some cookies, a drive through the country-side some sunny afternoon, just a quick walk to get some fresh air with the baby in the stroller. Really try to cultivate good girl friends!! I will be praying for you.

Is there anyway he could take a small break from classes?  Probably not over the summer (because he is already started) but could he take a semester off?  My husband started grad school when baby #2 was 2 months old until weeks before baby #3 was born.  If you are or do start to seriously struggle with ppd (which I did with baby #2) and don’t have other means of support (family around, etc) don’t be afraid to talk to him about that possibility.  I wouldn’t normally suggest something like that for the average postpartum mom, but I know how hard postpartum depression can be and it is important to take care of yourself as much as possible if it is serious.

The problem with being in school and teaching is that there’s never really an end to the workday. Yes, you might be done with teaching or being in class, but there’s always homework, research, grading, lesson plans, etc., and since that work can be done anywhere and at any time, my husband and I (who have both been grad students/teachers at various times) have found ourselves never really ending the work day. I very strongly suggest sitting down with your husband now and when he gets a teaching job and coming up with a schedule that allows him to get his work done but that is predictable and reliable for you. For example, once he’s teaching, his “work day” may end at 3:30 but he’ll have lots of other prep work to do. You need to agree that he will work at a certain time and keep other time free—maybe he’ll get up an hour early to get some work done or maybe he can always work from 8-9 in the evening. It’s really important that the two of you come up with a schedule that you can both depend on so there are no disappointments and surprises.

Lilacs, you are in good company.  Yours truly here is coming up on 9 years of marriage to the most hardworking, “hustling” provider of a man I’ve ever met.  My first was born when DH was working full time 12 hour nights.  As in, dinner-goodbye-breakfast-hello-go to sleep- dinner-goodbye, rinse, lather, repeat.

Guess what?  I am so GRATEFUL for that boot camp intro to parenting!  When #2 arrived and dh was back in school (or was it working 3 jobs? I forget), it was a breeze.
We’ve done night shift, we’ve done full-time work + full-time school for Master’s degree, more schooling for certifications, etc., we’ve done 4 jobs, 7 days a week.  Yes, it was challenging for me.  But I got to make my own schedule with the kids, sleep in when we needed to, dvd it for a day when I needed it.  He was the one taking years off his lifespan with all the wacky schedules! 

Not too long ago, I posted here about the possibility of him taking a M-Th travel job. Now that may not pan out and he’s looking at school again, which would be in addition to full-time weekend nights + additional teaching/clinicals.

I don’t want to minimize your concerns, and I hope I haven’t come across that way, and this isn’t a “who’s got it tougher” contest.
I just want to reassure you that sometimes that 9-5 job that we think our family needs just doesn’t exist.

Think things through *with* your husband, and support him as best you can in his quest to be a good provider to his family.  Come up with Plan A, B, C and D so that you don’t have unreasonable expectations or get caught by surprise. One step at a time.

Please tell me that you are being treated for your post-partum depression.  In addition to seeking your doctor’s expertise, this is a chance to humbly ask for help from your parish, for example, and seek a mother’s helper or even a surrogate Granny helper to come in regularly and help out…even if it’s just to give you a nap.  This is not the time to think, “I should be able to handle this myself” if your body & mind are telling you otherwise.  “Independence is obnoxious” is the title of a great essay by Elizabeth Duffy, I believe.
I second the suggestion to find other moms (check your libraries) and start building up your circle of support.  In the meantime, Lilacs, you are most certainly in my prayers!

Wow!  I could have written this myself!!!!!  Prayers sent your way.  Could your husband explore another career before it’s too late?  Perhaps school psychologist or school counselor, school librarian?  PE teacher? occupational therapist?  speech therapist?  I am so serious about this!  Teaching is just the pits, and the work NEVER ends!  It is a huge drain on the family, and a huge drain on your finances as well.  My husband is in school as well, and it is sooooo very stressful.  He is trying to get out of teaching because it is such an unfriendly career to have with children - no flex time, no Fridays off, no bonus, no late starts, and lots and lots of extra unpaid time and uncompensated expenses for the classroom.  Plus, he was getting death threats & injuries from some of his students.  It was really stressful and awful.  This is why he is going back to school.  The “going back to school” part is VERY, VERY HARD on a young family and wife, however, and we are all suffering greatly!  It would be much easier if he could just take a sabbatical & go to school full-time, but we need the benefits & income, so here we are…. every waking hour he is studying/taking tests/on the computer/doing projects/doing observations, etc, etc, etc.  I feel like it is a purgatory of sorts, you know?  Sometimes it makes me just want to scream, and yet it’s the only way for a better job for him - one that won’t cause him to have a heart attack or a permanent back injury or whatever.

Hi Lilacs and any others out there who have husbands doing graduate studies! You might be interested in this website, thegraduatewife.com It was started by some Evangelicals in Oxford, and it’s a really good read with interesting stories and advice for those in this unique season of life. (Me included!)

Arg, I swear I pressed “reply” and it sent me to the bottom. Bummer

Wow.  :(  Prayers.  That sounds really awful.  Have you talked to him??  Is there a chance he is just feeling insecure about himself and wanting to get his own body back in shape (ie, not necessarily ogling others’ bodies)??  :( :( :( :(  I am so sad for you.  I hope this is just a little mid-life crisis about his own bod, and not… well, what it appears. :(

Hi, kaye! I’m so sorry you’re going through this!! Are you able to climax within the act of sex with your husband at all? You don’t have to be “joined” in order for you to climax morally - you just have to be in the “session” of making love. It’s different for him - he can’t climax outside of you since his climax is directly related to his fertility - but you’re free to keep going and have your husband help you “get ‘er done”. If you’ve already tried that I would sincerely talk to your husband about how he can help you during sex - what you like and what turns you off. Maybe try to climax before he even penetrates? Or go another round so you can? Also - I haven’t read it yet - but I’ve heard “Holy Sex” by Popcak is an *amazing* book. It might answer some of your questions and give you some honest to goodness ideas on how to help you reach on orgasm when you’re having sex!! And don’t feel bad about talking to a priest about it! I’ve talked to a priest about it for myself and he wasn’t embarrassed at all. He acknowledged how important it is for me to be satisfied in my physical relationship with my husband. Please don’t feel selfish for wanting to climax when you have sex! That’s the way God wants it to work!! Hugs to you and I’ll pray for you! I’m sure you can work this out!! God won’t leave you high and dry:) Here’s the link for the book http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Sex-Toe-Curling-Mind-Blowing-Infallible/dp/0824524713

I’m so sorry for your suffering. While for most women, I don’t think an orgasm is going to happen every time, it is certainly natural to expect it regularly! If you are able to achieve an orgasm through masturbation, than it should be physically possible through intimate relations with your husband as well - maybe not solely through intercourse, but perhaps with additional manual, oral, or other stimulation. Additional stimulation as part of foreplay, intercourse, and afterplay is not sinful. I gather from discussions here it quite common to need that additional stimulation for a woman to orgasm.

Sorry to be so blunt, but is is that your husband does not care enough to take the time to figure out together how to pleasure you?

Kaye, my understanding is that as long as your husband is the one who’s “doing it to you” and it’s during the same “session” together, it’s OK to use a vibrator or whatever may be needed to get you there. (God meant for it to be satisfying for both spouses.) It’s a sin if you are removing it from the “unitive” part of the intimate act - as in by yourself without your husband. I’ve never been able to have an orgasm “during” - always before, during foreplay or after as a “finish”. As long as my husband is the one “doing it” to me, I don’t believe it’s a sin.

Folks here have recommended Dr. Greg Popczak’s (sp?) book “Holy Sex!” quite often. I have not read it yet, but from what I gather it sounds a little closer to a Catholic Dr. Ruth than Chris West’s books.
I could be wrong, but I think you could be mistaken about your belief that an external stimulation type of device being prohibited if *your dh* uses it with you/for you, naturally not if you are using it yourself.
The situation not being what your dh wants it to be, yet him not seeing anything wrong with it makes me think that he is not being as um, creative? as he could be in helping you experience orgasm? 
Masturbation is the lynchpin of the problem, the vicious cycle, you see.  Keep confessing lack of chastity in your vocation.  Conquer that vice and tell the memories of past soft core novels to simmer down and I bet you’ll see a change.
I also wonder: have you tried some type of small, daily mortification to conquer this vice?  Some small act of self-denial, known only to you?  Daily Mass?  Attending daily mass and yet staying in the pews at communion time when not in a state of grace can be painful and sorrowful and powerfully motivating.
Just remember - God created you body and soul, and when your body had completed its job, He wants to welcome your soul back to Him!

God bless you.  I hope you receive more encouragement and advice.

Just to add to the above advice, all of which is good, are you still reading the romance novels?  If so, they really are women’s porn and no more helpful to a marriage than the girlie mags.  So along with getting creative with dh, toss the outside influences and see if that helps too.

i thought that masturbatory sex toys weren’t morally licit because well…  they’re not your husband bringing you to orgasm but a device? also it provides a stimulation level that you husband could never compete with - oral and manual stimulation of a wife by her husband would never look like what a vibrating mechanism does - so isn’t it more a masturbatory device that your husband is holding?

not trying to make things more complicated but now i would genuinely like to know :/

StephC: You are mistaken about Dr. Popcak. He is quite traditional in his teachings about marriage, sex,and family issues. I’d say, similar to Dr. Ray Guarendi. As a matter of fact, Christopher West wrote, about the book: “‘Holy Sex’ deserves a great AMEN!” My husband and I are VERY pariticular about the books we read, making sure the author is in alignment with the Catholic Church’s teachings. We now own 4 of Dr. Popcak’s books. Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve read it.

I do think there is good reason that Greg Popcak’s book has been mentioned very often here. He builds on the foundation you get from Christopher West’s Good News About Sex and Marriage and has specific, practical recommendations not only about sex but about communication between spouses and other elements of a successful marriage. Steph C, I generally appreciate your comments very much, but I think it is unfair of you in this case to characterize his book—which you say you haven’t read—with the comparison to Dr. Ruth! Popcak is faithful to the teachings of the Church in everything of his I have read. His discussions are clear and frank but tasteful and sensitive. I have read his book and have been very grateful for it, particularly because I have had struggles similar to Kaye’s. Please don’t dissuade people from reading this wonderful book! Kaye, like you I tried to gain greater fulfillment in ways that I came to realize were wrong. I took these to confession as you did and found that very healing. The grace of that sacrament amazes me! Through learning more about Theology of the Body and through improving my communication with my husband, this part of our marriage has become much more fulfilling. As others have said, the type of stimulation you need is morally acceptable in its place (I wonder if we tend to take an overly restrictive view when we realize we’ve been out of step with Church teaching in this area.) I found that taking that approach and sometimes climaxing after my husband took the pressure off me for awhile and allowed the resentment to abate. Take the pressure off and then experiment with different positions, with complementary stimulation of other areas, with lubricants—one widely available one increases clitoral sensitivity—intensely, actually —which can make a world of difference.

I think StephC’s comment re: Dr. Ruth was just meant to convey that Popcak’s book is more of a practical application regarding Catholic sexuality than say a more theological treatment of the theology of the body in Chris West’s books. Is that right, Steph?

Also, regarding the comment above, I believe marital aids such as vibrators are morally licit if used in an appropriate manner. Popcak covers this in detail - and I don’t have time to grab my book and reference it, but I believe he makes reference to a standard that you measure these things by - the one rule? At any rate, so long as you are not violating the integrity of the act, the vibrator is ok.  The book really is worth the purchase price is you ask me.

I do own the Popcak book mentioned above and would not recommend it.  It kind of creeped me out.  I wonder how many priests and/or theologians previewed it before it was published?

Hi Kaye.  I just want to start by saying that I am a fairly recent convert and when I began RCIA I did not know that masturbation was a mortal sin.  At that point, I masturbated very regularly because, like you, my husband could not “satisfy me.”  Now for me, the knowledge that it was a mortal sin was enough for me to stop this habit that was ten years in the making.  But, that was a great grace from God.  I really think masturbation can be addictive, esp if it follows a certain pattern.  For you, your body has learned to expect masturbation after sex.  Therefore, it is distasteful for you when you don’t do it.  Just look as it as a habit you need to break.  Don’t try to find ways for it to be okay.  From what you wrote (and of course it’s so hard to tell from a few sentences), it seems like this is a major problem for you when you say it has taken over your marriage and you don’t want to be married anymore. 

My sex life is so much better in the past few years that I haven’t masturbated.  I still rarely climax, but we have very good, very satisfying (for both of us!) sex.  I agree with the above posters that extra stimulation during sex is certainly permissible, but I think you will be happier if you simply break this habit (this mortal sin!) first, and then deal with improving sex later.  I’m sorry if I come across harsh, but I know from experience that this is hurting you and hurting your marriage.  You can do it.  I will pray my Rosary for you tonight and for the next few days.  Just remember, a mortal sin poisons your spiritual life.  And remember, there is little merit in being obedient when it is easy for us.  But, when being obedient to the Church is hard for us, the graces poured down are great in number! 

I think you’ve gotten good advice.  Hopefully your husband will be on board and start helping you in your love making session like you’ve been helping yourself.  The advice to conquering this vice against chastity is good too - as well as ditching the romance novels if you’re still reading them.  Prayers to you!

anon - I’ll be praying for you. I’m so sorry :(

Hi, I just wanted to say a few things.  1.)  I will pray for you, that God will bless you with another child, either through adoption or through conception.  Miracles DO happen!!!!  : )  2.)  I don’t know if this is helpful to think about, but I do know of couples who have announced their intent/desire to adopt and have coordinated an effort to fundraise/save for an adoption.  You could launch this through a facebook page, send out some press releases, ask your parish priest & Knights of Columbus for support, etc.  It is not outside the realm of possibility.  3.)  Do you know Paul Rymiak?  He is a person who prays over people for healing, and he is, as he say, an instrument of God, and that the healing comes from Jesus, and through our faith.  Many people have become pregnant after being prayed over by him. I would recommend being prayed over by him, and to go to as many Catholic healing masses as possible.  4.)  I recommend a novena to St. Gianna Beretta Molla, and you can do one to St. Gerard as well.  There is also one to Bl. Pope John Paul II.  More prayers certainly can NOT hurt - will only help, and will draw you closer to Christ!  See if you can go on a pilgrimage to a shrine, too.  Have you ever heard the story of Saint Colette or St. Nicolette, as she is also called?  Her parents were older, dealt w/ infertility, and made a pilgrimage to the shrine of St. Nicholas, who I guess is also a patron saint for couples desiring children.  They did this at great sacrifice, as they were poor. On their return, everyone (in the village) was shocked that they were expecting, since they were older.  Anyhow, I find these things to be very inspirational.  Also, St. Anne & St. Joachim were older & had only one child - Mary!  Our Blessed Mother only had one child too - Jesus!  5.) Regarding the medical issues, have you sought help from Dr. Thomas Hilgers, of the Pope Paul VI institute?  He has Creighton Model NAPRO trained people all over the world, helping women with infertility and miscarriage.  You could also contact his institute directly asking for help with specific issues, and he will give you advice to take back to your doctor, so your doctor can write the orders (for things like injectible HCG & injectible progesterone to be taken on specific days - usually “peak + 3, 5, 7, 9”).  Since you have already conceived once, it may be that there are some things that just need a little boost in your cycle to help you to achieve fertility.  I have heard that some couples are only fertile for a period of 12 or 8 hours during the cycle (this would be sub-fertility patients).  Definitely, the corpus luteum needs the HCG and progesterone to support it.  Also, it could be that you are not ovulating at all, in which case, clomid could help you.  These are all things that NAPRO - Dr. Hilgers - could help you with.
Also, there are such things as laproscopies (ONLY TRUST A DR. HILGERS-trained dr. with a laproscopy, though)!!!!!  Not all doctors are equal at doing this, and some could cause more harm than good!!!!!!!  There is also hysterosalpingogram to clear out your tubes & I think there is even a way to surgically clear a blocked tube.  Also, there may be some moral medical helps for your husband too, since he is a part of the equation.
6.) Just an FYI, I know some people who had years of infertility and now they have several kids, after having been prayed over for years.  God is bigger than we realize!

Oh, anon,
Having struggled with infertility and cried each time I got my period, I know of your pain. My heart aches for you. Sending up prayers for peace for you, and acceptance of God’s most precious and ever perfect will. That is the hardest thing to do.

Have you looked into Dr.Hilgers, or other Dr.s that use Naprotechnology? Have had a few friends that have had success through them. Or, maybe the Lord has another baby for you to adopt? Only He knows.

Prayers and hugs.

Anon—I will pray for you. Since you mentioned the expense of adoption and your age, I was wondering if you’ve considered adopting a child of a race different from yours or a child with mild special needs. My sister (who is Caucasian) found it much easier (and quicker) to adopt African-American and biracial children because fewer couples are willing to accept them. They also told the agency that they were willing to adopt children with possible special needs, like fetal alcohol syndrome. (Two of her three adopted children did have FAS and needed some physical therapy, but are totally fine now.)

I also wonder if you’re aware of the adoption tax credit. I don’t know the specifics, but I think my sister and BIL got much of their adoption fees back through this credit.

Good luck!

Anon,

I could have written your post.  I’m sorry for what you are suffering.  I will pray for you.

Thank you all for your input - yes, I’ve done the Napro and have jouneyed out to Nebraska for treatment.  A great experience but with no results.

I"ve done several novenas over the years - even had a personal blessing from JPII before he passed away.  I’ve been prayed over by several mystics, more than one who have told me that I will have a son.

As far as adoption goes - we were able to get back most of what we payed out for our daughter with the tax credit but since that was not through an agency, it was much more economical.  My brother and sil adopted and african/american boy through an agency but it was such a stressful experience since they were scammed once and once a birth mother backed out right when the baby was born -so, I’ve been a bit gun shy about agencies - I’ve prayed about that and never feel at peace going through an agency though we always tell the Lord we would love to adopt but He has to drop a baby on our laps - which is exactly what He did with our daughter.

Really, at this point, 11 years later, I’m just at the point of constantly trying to surrender to God’s will - accept, accept, accept.

Again, thank you all for your kind advice and most of all for your prayers.  I try to remember all of those on this website in my rosary.  Such a gift to have this kind of prayer community.

Pearl! I remember your post from a couple of weeks ago! The heart takes a VERY long time to detach from someone - so please be easy on and very kind to yourself!! It sounds like you know in your head what’s happening is for the best - your heart will follow suit soon. I’m so sorry, Peal! I’ll be praying for you, ok?!

Pearl,
I’ve been praying for you! I wish I had some kind of quick fix for you, but taking one day at a time is probably the best I can offer. It is so hard to see God’s plan sometimes when you are in the midst of crushing heartbreak and despair. It may take time, but eventually things will fall into place and you’ll be able to make some sense of this. God’s will is usually evident in hindsight. I’m 8 weeks pregnant, and will offer all my discomforts and suffering for your intentions this week!

Pearl, stay strong.  You know in your heart of hearts this man wouldn’t make a steadfast husband.  And don’t be discouraged.  I broke off an engagement at 31 years old and one month later I met my future husband who is an amazing person.  But you can’t get to the one you are meant to be with if you hold on to your ex.

So sorry for your situation!  My sister went through something similar with that feeling of losing her best friend; she’s now completely happy in consecrated life with the Apostolic Oblates, but I remember how hard it was for her to walk away from that earlier relationship.  It’s fine to keep busy so as not to wallow, but allow yourself space to grieve too.  Even if you know he’s not the right man for you, it’s not easy to let go of all those hopes - so let yourself be miserable sometimes too so you really deal with it instead of hoping the sadness will just go away.  Prayers for you!

Thank you all. Logically I know that I’ll be fine, but at the moment it’s a huge struggle and I really appreciate your support. I just miss him!

Pearl!  So sorry for this time in your life.  Keep in mind: however awful you may feel right now, however desolate, lost, sad, etc.; there is NOTHING, nothing, no fate, no illness, no loss, worse than being married to the wrong person.  Right, ladies?  So, say a big Phew, give yourself some time to regroup, and embrace life again.  Even if you NEVER marry (which you probably will), that would be preferable to being unhappily married.  Take care of yourself, Pearl!

I just wanted to second what the ladies have said.  While this is such a hard time for you, you will get through it.  Someone who has been undecided for years if he wants to marry you would not make a good husband, and like the lady said, not being married at all is far better than being in a bad marriage!  And have hope, God’s plan is always better than ours.  When you meet the right guy and are married, you will be able to look back and see why this situation was not right.  I’m going to a baby shower Sat for a friend who was married at 39 and expecting her first baby next month—I know that’s not how it works for everyone, but just so you know it happens

I don’t have experience with the suggestion, but I have heard it before. I haven’t given it a great deal of thought, but I think the practice of NFP would help in keeping your sexual relationship with your husband from becoming selfish. It would limit the possibility of either of you feeling that the other was there merely for your pleasure void of any sacrifices, the kind you would be making had you been using NFP to avoid pregnancy.

I’m sorry you have to live with such regret. I don’t think anyone here will treat you harshly. We all sin. We’re all weak. And I expect nearly every woman here who has been blessed with a pregnancy has been scared at some point on some level. You’ve confessed it and been absolved. I hope someone else here will have a similar experience and be of more help to you. I’ll just state the obvious - pray that you and your husband are open God’s will for your marriage and that He guides you regarding this priest’s suggestion.

See my post below, I am recovering from a major medical crisis and I feel like people are practically lining up to give my husband a vasectomy or to get my tubes tied, so I can sympathize with making the decision you did. As they say, “sometimes you make the right decision and sometimes you make the decision right.” I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t begin charting using Creighton, Billings or any method, really. Obviously, you wouldn’t have to strictly adhere to the rules of avoiding the way a fertile couple would, which might lessen your husband’s resistance, but you would learn much about your own cycles and you might find the charts helpful when you approach menopause as you’ll be able to track various symptoms. Perhaps, after a few months, you might even be able to persuade your husband to join you in celibacy during your fertile phase. Perhaps the two of you could pray the rosary together on those evenings? My thoughts and prayers are with you, K.

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses to my post. Each of you gave me something useful to think and pray about, and it was very helpful to me to have a place to share it. God bless!

Definitely sending some prayers your way! And glad to see you are doing well.  You have been in our thoughts and we have been praying for your recovery.

The priest suggested the practice of NFP to counter the disconnect created when one is sterilized between the act and procreation.  It would be a sacrifice to help make reparation in this area.  It should also improve their communication and lessen using each other for pleasure in this area of their marriage.  I have heard of people doing NFP or reversing their sterilization when trying to get back on track.  I hope they continue to prayerfully consider if this would be something beneficial to them.

From here it sounds like the problem is in your mind (not like not real but as in a psychological rather than physical block).  Maybe the advice of the other woman who has been there to break this habit first is the best.  I wish I could think of links offhand. . .there are sites to help people overcome porn and masturbation.  As one site said the problem is that we’re creatures of habit and you have trained your body to finish in this way so you have to break the habit and retrain it to finish appropriately.  It is possible, but not easy.