have you called your instructor?

I also learned NFP (Creighton) postpartum and it can be TOUGH. I had fertile mucus patches the entire time I was breastfeeding my first son, which was almost a year, but didn’t get my cycles back until I weaned completely. Didn’t have those patches with either my second or third children.  I have friends who have found fertility moniters (Marquette method)to be very helpful during the postpartum timeframe, although, they can be expensive. Good luck, lilacs, I will say a prayer for you!

lilacs, I’m one of the people who had good experiences using the Marquette method and Clearblue monitor postpartum. I had pretty much constant mucus while breastfeeding and the STM method basically had us abstaining for the duration—which is really hard. With Marquette’s breastfeeding protocol, you only have to abstain once you get a high reading. Sign up for the forum where you can ask questions and get individualized answers. (I think the online instructions are too vague myself.) Email me through my blog if you’d like more information. Congratulations on your newest baby and many blessings!

Ideally, you should be having chart consults with your CCL instructor every 2 - 4 weeks while you learn, especially since you’re post partum.  The post partum rules can be followed before your fertiltiy returns, so you do NOT need to abstain until then!!!  Do check in with you instructor soon!

Thank you, everyone!  I just started reading the postpartum manual and that makes things a lot clearer.  Still looks like a lot of abstinence though…..  Will get in touch with my instructor!

I know each method has different rules, but Creighton demands that you never chart what you find in your underwear only what you observe with flat-folded tissue before and after using the bathroom, showering and at the end of the day. You can also bear down slightly when using the bathroom to bring down the mucus. Hope this helps!

Thank K(2).  I am actually looking for specific Billings rules because I am trying to learn this one method.  I do not want to combine methods because of confusion.  Thank you for your input on Creighton.  God Bless.

At least in my experience with Billings (only method I have used), I would write down sensations at the vulva (not sure what the difference is on what you said - it’s whenever I felt “wet” or “dry”) and then mucus observations when I wipe.  I never heard to write observations based on what is in your underwear - frequently there isn’t enough there but when you wipe it is plenty to observe color/consistency.  HTH!

Billings user for 12 years here—and Billings only. (Love it!)

If you happen to see something on the toilet paper, it’s OK to record it. However, since you are learning Billings, I highly recommend that unless you have really obvious fertile mucus or blood on the TP, don’t look at it, examine it, etc. Go completely by sensation at the vulva at several times throughout the day. Remember, Billings is successfully used by the blind, the illiterate, etc. The more you rely on sensation, the less likely you are to make a mistake.

I use http://www.billingsmentor.org to record, and find the instructions there very helpful. But I really recommend you find a local certified teacher, or a certified teacher who can teach you over the phone, and speak to her at least once a month for the first six months. It will be very cheap, and well worth the confidence.

My question: why not??  What can it hurt to drop by your dr. and tell him/her what’s going on.  If you can at all afford it, I would do it!!

I used to have the same symptoms (and many more) and had tons of mainstream tests done (gallbladder, esophagus scope, etc) that never revealed a thing. I KNEW it was tied to my hormones but I couldn’t find a doctor that believed me. I finally sought treatment with the PPVI Institute in Omaha, NE. It was a lot of work and seen by some as “extreme”’ but ultimately resulted in finding out I had endometriosis (which was removed), very low hormone levels, a thyroid disorder, and adrenal fatigue, and also cured my infertility. I hope you can find healing.

I had the same symptoms and ended up with low hormone levels and endometriosis like Renee S.  I would try finding a Napro doctor in your area.  They are more likely to try to figure out why you have these symptoms.  Most “regularly” trained OB/GYNs are trained to hide the symptoms (usually via oral contraceptives).

I have Holy Hour today and will pray for you.  I remember how painful it was for me and won’t wish that on my worst enemy.

If you don’t have a NaPro doctor in your area look for a homoepath or integrative health doctor.  They are more likely to order a wide variety of hormone blood tests than traditional doctors.  Be aware though that many of the tests they order are not covered by insurance fully because they are not “standard practice” so if cost is an issue be sure to ask the lab first how much it will cost.  I had issues for years and it was not until seeing my integrative health doctor that I discovered by estrogen was through the roof and my progesterone was in the basement (along with my testosterone).  No other doctor even considered checking anything other than my thyroid.

I have had the same symptoms you described for years.  It is truly miserable!  In my case, it is probably just unexplainable bad cramps.  I thought, for a while, that I might have endometriosis (but found out that was not true when I had a C/S and asked the doc to look around).  What I found that worked was the following:  start ibuprofen 1-2 days before menses started, drink lots of water, avoid caffeine and exercise right before and through my menses.  It didn’t help completely but it made my period go from debilitating to functional at least.  And, I think it’s a fine idea to talk to a doctor about it too.  Never hurts to ask!

Have you considered Marquette method? It uses the Clearblue Easy monitor and it has a website with a forum specifically for NFP questions. If you have any questions you post in the forum and a Doctor or Nurse will get back to you within 24 hours. My husband and I are using that and find it very helpful and objective.

Trying to Avoid, I’ve never used Ovacue but I do use the Marquette method. It sounds like it would be more accurate than the ClearBlue monitor, at least in detecting ovulation, but I don’t know how well it would work postpartum. With Marquette, they start the “fertile” time based on past periods rather than depending on the monitor because it doesn’t detect it early enough. It can also sometimes miss ovulation entirely (which has happened to me once in 18 months). (The protocol is slightly different if you are nursing and not yet back to regular cycles.) I would recommend signing up for the forums and asking there about Ovacue. There are probably people who have used it and, even if not, the nurse or doctor can respond about differences between the two monitors for you. Congratulations on your new baby!

Trying to Avoid - I also use Marquette, but I don’t know about the Ovacue. I suspect, though, that it wouldn’t give you that many more infertile days than the Clearblue monitor. Assuming you’re pretty regular, you would generally have about 10 days in the fertile period: 6 days before your earliest peak of the last six months, plus 3 full days after peak. (So if P=14, you would consider days 8 through 17 to be fertile, and your infertile period would begin on day 18.) If the Ovacue gives you a 5-7 day warning before ovulation, then you’d still be abstaining during that time, and most NFP methods have you wait three full days after ovulation, so that’s 9-11 days. (I’m sure you know that sperm can live 3-5 days in fertile mucus, so it’s necessary to abstain for a few days before ovulation.) Hope this helps!

I forgot to add that I’ve found the monitor to be very reliable. I used it for 3 years while were avoiding and never once missed a detection of ovulation. Then we had about five years of having kids, and now I’ve been using it again to avoid for about a year, again without having missed a detection of ovulation. Since it can happen, though, I recommend keeping an eye on your mucus signs so you can do a cross check.

(Incidentally, on the Marquette website they indicate that the monitor fails to detect ovulation about 10% of the time, but I don’t know if that means that of all women charting in a given month, 10% will fail to detect or if that any given woman will experience failure to detect 10% of the time. My experience suggests that it’s probably the former, and that some women will have more problems with this than others.)

Jane, have you ever experienced anything similar in a post partum phase?  I always forget about it, but reading your post reminds me that my hormones are typically “settling down” and adapting to nursing, introducing solids, weaning, etc.  I know I can remember some heavy-duty night sweats after each baby.

That said, I would certainly point you to Marilyn Shannon’s book, “Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition” (4th ed.) as well as to http://www.NaProTechnology.com or http://www.FertilityCare.org.  If you’ve never experienced anything like this before, there is a chance that you could be entering perimenopause.  Or another baby?   (I say this b/c I was starting to think I was heading to perimenopause this spring…and then I took a pregnancy test….)

hi! I got hot flashes at 38, so it’s certainly possible. Perimenopause is early in my family, so I knew what was up. I still had a successful pregnancy after the hotflashes had begun.

Check your junk mail folder. My forum registration got sent there. As for “real life” instructors, I learned at Marquette itself from the developers of the method, so if you happen to leave in Milwaukee, then, yes. Aside from that, I don’t know.

I love this metod-I have used Marquette successfully in this postpartum phase (my fourth) for 14 months.  I am finally back in cycles, and just wanted to share this tidbit of info Dr. Fehring shared in the forum.  Apparently the largest number of unintended pregnancies occur in the first 2 cycles postpartum.  Knowing that, I am glad for the time I had getting used to the method before my cycles began, and it is making us much more conservative for these first postpartum cycles.  I have also noticed that responses on the site are a bit more delayed than usual, so,perhaps they are backlogged, or someone is on vacation?  Don’t let that deter you-it really is a wonderful method!

For twenty years, I used Billings, STM, and Creighton, but had very little luck avoiding pregnancy.  This is my third cycle with the MM, and I am feeling hopeful.  Before starting, I registered online, read everything on the site, and read the entire monitor manual.  In the first cycle, the monitor provided a string of nine High days, but no Peak, so in the second cycle, I used the “dip method” with the monitor, and added the digital OPK.  This cycle was “perfect” in that the monitor registered five High days followed by a Peak.  The evening of the last High, the OPK provided a smiley face.  In this third cycle, the monitor only provided one High day before Peak, and the OPK only showed an open circle.  I chart online so that the professionals at Marquette can help me with questions.  Whenever a question arises, I post on the forum, and so far have received a quick response.  I am unaware of any local teachers, but don’t feel the need because of the online support.  God Bless.

Deanna, That is very helpful!  Only thing, could you clarify for me what OPK is?  As I said, I haven’t been granted access to the forums or anything yet.  So, all I have to go by is the monitor manual (which I did read cover to cover) and the basic instructions for breastfeeding protocol on the front page. 
Thanks for everyone’s input!  (MR - I was SO hopeful that it was in my spam folder!  But alas, it was not.  Great idea though, thanks for suggesting I check there!)

NNS, OPK stands for Ovulation Predictor (Prediction?) Kit.  The box, however, just says Ovulation Test.  There are digital and non-digital types, the digital being more expensive but also more accurate.  And they come with different numbers of test strips.  It doesn’t appear that you can buy test strips separately, so each kit comes with a monitor and test strips.  The OPK measures the LH surge, whereas the fertility monitor measures the LH threshold, so ideally, the OPK will provide a positive test before the monitor shows Peak.  I bought the Clearblue Digital Ovulation Test with 20 test strips (because it is highly recommended), and am only using about four or five test strips each month (I begin testing about day 15), so the kit will last four or five months.  I can’t explain why the OPK provided a positive test (smiley face) in the first cycle but not in the third (open circle), and I haven’t yet asked on the forum.  I am new to the MM, so I can’t yet vouch for its long term effectiveness, but again, I am feeling far more confident with NFP than I ever did with the other models.  Because the other models rely on mucus observations, and I don’t have a discernible mucus pattern, I was always “possibly fertile.”  With the MM, I can say with some certainty that beginning the fourth day past Peak on the fertility monitor, I am infertile.  It provides so much peace of mind and body.  In addition, my Creighton trained doctor was able to order lab work this cycle because the monitor identified Peak in the second cycle.  I am hoping that the lab work results will prove helpful.  But at this point, the MM has been so easy (about 10-14 days of testing) and helpful, that I will probably continue to use it despite the greater cost.  God Bless.

Hi Anon,
Try here:
http://nfp.marquette.edu/sc_intro.php

http://nfp.marquette.edu/sc_breastfeed_monitor.php

I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend signing up for their site (free)  and looking over the questions in the “Forum” There is an entire section called “Special Circumstances” and lots of info about postpartum/breastfeeding protocal. Devote 30 mins to just reading it- I promise it will click and begin to make sense.  Reading through those helped me to understand better the protocal. I also track online, which is a great tool—if you ever have a specific question the Marquette doc or nurse can look over your chart and answer your question very quickly. Good luck and hang in there! Once I got the hang of Marquette, I really loved it.