Why does everybody hate Rocksteady's rumoured Justice League game?

I don't think there is hate for another Batman game but I think the inclusion of the other DC characters will only be detrimental to the gameplay (unless they are scripted or guest appearances - not Human controlled) In the history of video gaming there has NEVER been a half decent Superman game - in fact Spiderman is probably the only other superhero game to even come close to Batman (in terms of quality video gaming) and that is pretty average by comparison (and also Marvel not DC) The inclusion of any of the other DC superheros will only bring down the quality of the Batman games as I think it would be impossible to add them without it doing so - especially with Superman. How can they accurately add Superman without him being overpowered - IMPOSSIBLE! Virtually indestructable, superfast and superstrong, xray and 'laser/heat' vision, freezing breath hmmm!!! He could level the entire city in the blink of an eye from space if he so chose to do so. How do you prevent him/players from abusing his powers without compromising his abilities or giving bad guys a chance so the game is not too easy. The whole tone of the game would change too - Batman operates in a very different world to that of the others in many ways and I personally would prefer another quality Batman game than a sub standard Justice League game

I'm all for it, as long as they are like Robins cameo in Arkham City, just flying through saying hi and updating on what they're doing in the world. The next arkham game will be set in the apocalypse azrael was banging on about, it will also have Hush and all the other 'need more info in batcave' moments of arkham city. They wont change the tone and style as I don't think anyone goes for camp these days, it's all gritty this and that, so either the rumour is true but misquoted and took out of proportion or it's false.

Why? Well if you believe what's been said on other sites, it looks like a commercial decision by DC to introduce the JLA to people before trying to do a Marvel and repeat the success of Avengers Assemble with a Justice League film. I'm concerned that Rocksteady may be producing a game they feel under pressure to make from DC instead of a game they want to make. I also think a game with so many lead characters could just end up losing focus & being a total mess.

Dunno about you guys, but I absolutely love Green Arrow, and Green Lantern. Give them a game by the same people as the GLORIOUS arkham games? Hell yes. Ill buy that. I trust Rocksteady, I know they'll do it right.

How can they accurately add Superman without him being overpowered - IMPOSSIBLE! Virtually indestructable, superfast and superstrong, xray and 'laser/heat' vision, freezing breath hmmm!!!

Off the top of my head, there are a few ways;
Add him as an unlockable bonus character who only appears in cutscenes during the story but can be played once the story is over. This gives players a God Mode to unlock.As this will recount Bat's early days with the League, make it Supes' early days too. Make his abilities less powerful and make him more vulnerable. The comics and Smallville both found a bit of success with that formula.Simply relegate him to the cutscenes and be done with it.Build his gameplay sections differently, making them more about using that list of powers to solve a puzzle (which may well be a gigantic boss creature if combat has to be included) rather than beat hell out of regular enemy types.Give the big blue boy scout some truly horrific moral choices and see exactly how just the League can stay.

I get where you're coming from. I think I've said on here months ago that Superman is too powerful to be the focus of a video game, but he wouldn't be the focus in this case, merely one of a cast of characters. Each character in a team like this needs to be used differently and have content built specifically for them, catering to both their strengths and weaknesses. Imagine areas filled with Kryptonite that Supes simply can't get into, or has to be rescued from by the more fragile characters. Imagine the Green Lanterns threatened by an evil group of canaries. Imagine Wonder Woman being handcuffed by a male police officer. All these super powered people have their, often bizarre weaknesses, and these could easily be written into scenarios that make certain areas uninhabitable for them but a prime playground for others.

There are a couple of JLA members I could live with being in the same game as Batman, namely the less powerful/human ones like Green Arrow or Black Canary but even Denny O'neil (former chief Batman editor for almost 30 years, creator of Ra's Al Ghul, Bane and Scarecrow amoungst others) has said that Batman just doesn't belong in the same universe as Superman. If the guy who is almost single handedly responsible for the modern Batman we all know can't see how it can be done well then I'm ready to bow to his wisdom.

Damn Edwin be careful, those DC boys will start with the 'New 52' chants if you keep saying that about Aquaman

Two points of which based on the article that I wish to throw my two pence in:

1. When you say 'everybody' and the 'internet' what and who do you mean because, for one, I dont 'hate' the idea. I had to actually search for the haters and even then its an uncomphrehensable mess of juvenile comments.

2. I personally feel that its a bold move from Rocksteady and developers need to stick with the decisions by not caving in to demands from the general public i.e. Mass Effect 3.

If you've got a clear vision of things then stick with it. People will cast judgement way before its released because its human nature. But when it comes out all the same people will be loving it. Look at the Arkham Ayslum. There was doubters at the beginning but it showed how a superhero could be good. Stop paying fan service. Sure its fans that buy the game but most dont have the vision or nonce to actually have faith in the gamble. We're a hypocritical bunch. For example look at the fifa series, COD series and anything by Activitvision and EA. People constantly complain about how they publish the same games but people still buy them. The same people whinge and moan and generally troll about it. Why because they've got nothing better to do in their lives. They're not games developers, hell they're no where near the industry but the internet grants them the 'right' to have the say, albiet how moronic it is.

At the end of the day I hope Rocksteady include Superman. So what he's got 'unfair' superpowers? What's unfair about them? To be honest I kind of like the thought of being overpowered in Arkham/Gotham city because I would use Xray powers to perve on Harley Quinn or Catwoman.

Either way, what Im trying to say is 'Rocksteady stick to your guns. Flick the v's and make a decent game. Trolls are going to hate. Fanboys are going to condradict themselves and the world continues to turn.'

I would use Xray powers to perve on Harley Quinn or Catwoman.

Dude has some weird skeleton fetish

mulieman, get over it, 'everyone' is a figure of speech and you know it, don't get your hackles up over nothing, it makes you look foolish and petty.

As for the JLA approach, there are a couple of ways this could go, first, it's a 3rd Batman game, meaning the JLA inclusion will be akin to the Catwoman additions in AC, or this is basically a spin off/prequel game which means that other JLA members will have some prominence. I expect the former.

As for the JLA inclusion as playable characters, well, Superman is the obvious problem, but, there is a question to be raised over why the JLA is necessary. Like the Avengers, the JLA comes together to fight global, celestial, universal threats that one of them alone can't handle. That includes Superman. If you bring in the JLA then you are building a game that includes enemies that can match and battle Superman. Superman has a very nice catalogue of enemies that can match him, and, if needs be, there are certainly avenues they can go down to create superpowered enemies to match him. It is true that making him the sole focus of a game is difficult, you'd have to take a lot of liberties with peoples tolerance for what is believable, for some reason, though they accept that an Alien from another planet who looks exactly like us but happens to have the strength and powers of a God, they won't accept a storyline where an army of humans supported by hi-tech armour and weaponry set out to destroy him or some such. People can be very fickle. The point is, however, that Superman CAN be used, and he can be used BETTER in this game than he could on his own. The same goes for all the other JLA characters really.

As for why they're doing this, well, the argument that it's a DC/WB idea to test the waters for a JLA movie is ludicrous. First of all, to get a JLA movie going would take them the better part of 10 years at least as they need to reestablish Batman after this last Nolan film, they have to work with that Henry Cavill, who is the new Superman, to see if he is willing to be a part of it in the first place. They would also need to see if Zack Snyder has any long term plans for the SM series, assuming this next film is any good, and if he is interested in helping them set up a JLA universe, as he went on record previously to say that his SM films were standalone and not part of a JLA universe, but that was before one was really being developed, if WB said they were going to start actively working on it, then it might be a different story. They would also need to either reboot or fix the Green Lantern franchise, introduce WW, Green Arrow and probably Black Canary too, not to mention characters like Hawkman, Captain Marvel, Flash, Cyborg and yes, even Aquaman. 'Testing the waters' for a JLA team up now would have very little benefit. Also to note, they have had a few JLAesque team up episodes during the Smallville run, which they could certainly use as a tester. I'd more expect them to release a small blu ray box set of just the JLA related episodes and see how well it sells as a test than shoehorning in some additional superheroes to a video game.
Also not that long ago, Rocksteady did say they really wanted to try a Superman game. If this is a test, it's more likely to be a test for them to see if Superman can work in game format, but again, I'd be more likely to think that they wanted to do a superman game, but decided like most people have, that he would be too awkward for a standalone game, but could do something great with him in cameo form.

For me, the Marvel line-up of heroes - the ones in the public mainstream anyway (X-men, Spidey, and now the avengers) - have managed to stay a little more 'grounded' than the DC heroes who, as someone once said, are god-like and therefore hard to identify with (yes i know Thor is a god, but still...). Green Lantern the film didn't do very well at the box office because he's not exactly top-tier, and he's a little bit silly, and the public probably weren't really grabbed. Compare with Blade - a second or third ranking Marvel hero, yet Blade the film did remarkably well because the simple concept worked, comic book origins or no. A DC version of Blade would have been from space or something. And he would definitely have worn bright yellow tights.
Anyway, I think my point is this: with the exception of Batman, who has been worked on in our cultural perception for decades and has earned his place, DC heroes just ain't cool enough to work in a videogame. Too many primary colours, too few dimensions. It's not a coincidence that Watchmen took the piss out of DC heroes.

I agree that a 'Superman' game can work BUT would require a certain set of parameters and moral coding. For example Superman would never use ANY of his abilities IF they contradicted his very high set of morals - like using his x-ray vision to 'perve' or super strength/laser vision/speed etc if some innocent bystander could be negatively impacted on. This coding would have to be built into him - not impossible but requires a lot more effort. Batman is a lot more simpler in the fact that he does not have these abilities and underneath is a human with human limitations. Admittedly some of Supermans abilities can be quite easily replicated by weaponry but his limitless speed, flight, strength etc I think would be very difficult especially with the effects of using them on the world around him. This is just one of the additional characters - when you add in any of the others as well as all the enemies and there powers/abilities/weaponry etc - I think it becomes an almost impossible task to pull off without some issue - how can Superman knock through this wall and not that for example or not use super speed to dodge something - how can an enemy get the upper hand if supes can use super hearing to hear their plans, use super sight to see their traps (they can't all be behind lead) and super speed to get to them before they can do any of it! As well as utilising any/all of the other Justice Leagues abilities.

Grummy does make a very good point that a JLA movie just won't happen for business reasons.

Marvel managed to do an Avengers movie because they own all the character film rights (don't expect to see Spidey or the Xmen in Avengers 2 as they sold the film rights years ago) where as DC sold off the various rights to the JLA top tier and they are all owned by different companies. The odds of getting the rights back are really small, the whole reason that Green Arrow cropped up in Smallville was because the TV company couldn't get the rights from Warner Brothers to do the Batman story they wrote, despite both being owned by Time Warner!

Warner and DC suffer from too much internal segregation to get everything together, and I've got a feeling that a game may go the same way.

I agree that a 'Superman' game can work BUT would require a certain set of parameters and moral coding. For example Superman would never use ANY of his abilities IF they contradicted his very high set of morals - like using his x-ray vision to 'perve' or super strength/laser vision/speed etc if some innocent bystander could be negatively impacted on. This coding would have to be built into him - not impossible but requires a lot more effort. Batman is a lot more simpler in the fact that he does not have these abilities and underneath is a human with human limitations. Admittedly some of Supermans abilities can be quite easily replicated by weaponry but his limitless speed, flight, strength etc I think would be very difficult especially with the effects of using them on the world around him. This is just one of the additional characters - when you add in any of the others as well as all the enemies and there powers/abilities/weaponry etc - I think it becomes an almost impossible task to pull off without some issue - how can Superman knock through this wall and not that for example or not use super speed to dodge something - how can an enemy get the upper hand if supes can use super hearing to hear their plans, use super sight to see their traps (they can't all be behind lead) and super speed to get to them before they can do any of it! As well as utilising any/all of the other Justice Leagues abilities.

Which is why I expect if superman is playable, he will have his own set of missions built and designed specifically for him. Everything you say is fair enough, assuming they just dump him in Gotham and let him run wild, but they won't do that, they'd deliberately build his missions to suit him and there is enough available in the reams of Superman history for Rocksteady to worth with to make this work.

Which is why I expect if superman is playable, he will have his own set of missions built and designed specifically for him. Everything you say is fair enough, assuming they just dump him in Gotham and let him run wild, but they won't do that, they'd deliberately build his missions to suit him and there is enough available in the reams of Superman history for Rocksteady to worth with to make this work.

Doesn't that then become a Superman Only level and not a Justice League thing- Might as well expand on that and make a Superman game instead of bringing down the Batman games!

I think there's a fascinating game waiting to be made about Superman, personally. I don't think you could do it by artificially restricting his power - rather, you'd have to make a point of his power somehow, perhaps exploring how it isolates him from those he's sworn to protect.

everyone needs to shut up....rocksteady nailed batman and I reckon they would do a damn fine job of any DC superhero!

I think there's a fascinating game waiting to be made about Superman, personally. I don't think you could do it by artificially restricting his power - rather, you'd have to make a point of his power somehow, perhaps exploring how it isolates him from those he's sworn to protect.

Maybe you can't use any of his super powers if it is not within his high morals...

Maybe. Or it could be that his morals lead him to question whether it's worth saving us from our self-destructive behaviour - again, there's some really promising stuff in the Dark Knight Returns, very Cold War inflected. I'm not sure how that would work mechanically, but I suspect the God sim genre at large could be a useful act to follow.

everyone needs to shut up....rocksteady nailed batman and I reckon they would do a damn fine job of any DC superhero!

Here, here.

mulieman, get over it, 'everyone' is a figure of speech and you know it, don't get your hackles up over nothing, it makes you look foolish and petty.

I figured it was a figure of speech but generally found it to be lazy journalism and abit of a 'none story'. No offence meant Edwin. Its just my own personal opinion that there needs to be careful wording of journalists so as to give a sense of professionalism.

mulieman, get over it, 'everyone' is a figure of speech and you know it, don't get your hackles up over nothing, it makes you look foolish and petty.

I figured it was a figure of speech but generally found it to be lazy journalism and abit of a 'none story'. No offence meant Edwin. Its just my own personal opinion that there needs to be careful wording of journalists so as to give a sense of professionalism.

But it's not a piece of journalism, it's an opinion piece. That's quite clear from the fact it's listed under Blog on the front page.

Sorry if you find the article title over-the-top, mulieman. Balancing headlines between the mundane and the sensational is one of the trickier parts of my job, and I'll freely admit to getting it wrong on occasion, though I think I'm just about within bounds here. As Grummy points out, that's a rhetorical "everybody".

I just don't like the idea of a prequel right now, I'd rather that they continue the story. Plus Azrael kind of sets the stage for something big. Unless they do this and tie them together somehow? Perhaps something big is about to happen that puts Gotham... sorry "the world" in danger? As is always the case for super heroes.

Good old Batman making them fear the night and all that.

Sorry if you find the article title over-the-top.

It won't be over the top until it's about the new Ed series of Love Bots.

Which is why I expect if superman is playable, he will have his own set of missions built and designed specifically for him. Everything you say is fair enough, assuming they just dump him in Gotham and let him run wild, but they won't do that, they'd deliberately build his missions to suit him and there is enough available in the reams of Superman history for Rocksteady to worth with to make this work.

Doesn't that then become a Superman Only level and not a Justice League thing- Might as well expand on that and make a Superman game instead of bringing down the Batman games!

I was with you right up to 'bringing down the Batman games, at that point I can't follow your logic. First off, assuming this IS a Batman game, and not a JLA game, however Superman is used, he won't impact the Batman sections. I expect in this situation that, as I believe I've already said, the other JLA members will be used in a fashion akin to Catwoman, and I certainly couldn't claim Catwoman 'brought the batman games down', even though I didn't especially enjoy them, Even with Catwoman, there was still a full Batman game there for me to enjoy. If this IS a Batman game, then the JLA will likely act much the same.

Secondly, pretty much everyone agrees that a Superman game will be difficult, but bite sized chunks of him with focused gameplay could work well, AND, most importantly, with the JLA being part of the story, his inclusion in the game is justified. I will admit that not adding the JLA as playable characters is equally justified but if Rocksteady choose to do so, then the JLA story allows them too, they're not being shoehorned in for shits and giggles at the expense of the Batman experience. Superman levels as it were, if included, would fit the story, THAT is the most important thing. As good as the Gameplay is in these Batman games, it's the stories and the characters and how they all fit together as the adventure unfolds that is the best part, and is where Rocksteady have shone the brightest. They have created 2 stories so far that are as good as anything from the comics, and any of the films to date, and if they are making a JLA story, you can be sure that the story again will be excellent and however the gameplay pans out, it will make sense and fit the story. Being assured of that, as I see it, Superman/the JLA can't bring down the series because Rocksteady will keep up the quality that makes these games such a pleasure to experience in the first place.

Thirdly, this is all assuming that this IS a 3rd Batman game and NOT a JLA game. If this is a JLA game, then all arguments about the reputation of the Batman games is moot, as this would be Rocksteady making a JLA game, not them making another Batman game with some additional heroes.

Firstly - by bringing down the batman games - I actually mean the reputation that they have created and not suddenly making them inferior. So far we have had 2 VERY good Batman games - if this fails - it would be a 'Blip' on that reputation and name - especially as the fact that this is also being talked about as a 'Batman' game rather than a Justice League game featuring 'Batman'

Secondly - I have also mentioned ways in which this could work featuring the other Justice League Characters - that in the whole are not playable but feature alongside Batman in a scripted way or guest appearances.

And finally I am not Hating the idea and saying it will not work - full stop! I am however a little more apprehensive about the whole concept and not as excited as I would be if it was another 'Batman' game - similar to Arkham Asylum and/or City. The inclusion of the other Justice League characters to me have the potential of being detrimental to the story, mood and ambience of the Batman Universe. To me 'Justice League' was put together to rival the Marvel Avengers however I don't think 'Batman' really fits in with the other DC heros - Metropolis is a far different city to Gotham in terms of mood, ambience and architecture and the same goes for the 'Heroes' and 'Villains' that are in these cities. Having characters like Catwoman and Robin etc appearing in a Batman game is a lot different from Lex Luthor, Superman or Wonder Woman.

As I said I am not hating on it just yet - but I am a lot more apprehensive about the prospect than if it was another Batman game (with all the characters associated with him and Gotham City!

personaly, i want them to make a Judge Dredd game, only relised as a tie-in to the upcomeing Dredd to boost sales, make it similer to Arkham City, but in the Big Meg, prehaps during one Dredds epic story arks, retakeing the city after Necropolis would be epic, ir just a dat in the life of Joe Dredd as he parolls the streets dealig with crime lords, tweak the combat system to more of a brawller style (as Dredd is not as athletic as the Bat), with Daysticks and the Lawgiver comeing into play, mabey a few chase scenes on ther Lawmaster of races, responding to Justice Department info to intercept perps, who knows, but not Justice Leauge, i cant see it working

Firstly - by bringing down the batman games - I actually mean the reputation that they have created and not suddenly making them inferior. So far we have had 2 VERY good Batman games - if this fails - it would be a 'Blip' on that reputation and name - especially as the fact that this is also being talked about as a 'Batman' game rather than a Justice League game featuring 'Batman'

Secondly - I have also mentioned ways in which this could work featuring the other Justice League Characters - that in the whole are not playable but feature alongside Batman in a scripted way or guest appearances.

And finally I am not Hating the idea and saying it will not work - full stop! I am however a little more apprehensive about the whole concept and not as excited as I would be if it was another 'Batman' game - similar to Arkham Asylum and/or City. The inclusion of the other Justice League characters to me have the potential of being detrimental to the story, mood and ambience of the Batman Universe. To me 'Justice League' was put together to rival the Marvel Avengers however I don't think 'Batman' really fits in with the other DC heros - Metropolis is a far different city to Gotham in terms of mood, ambience and architecture and the same goes for the 'Heroes' and 'Villains' that are in these cities. Having characters like Catwoman and Robin etc appearing in a Batman game is a lot different from Lex Luthor, Superman or Wonder Woman.

As I said I am not hating on it just yet - but I am a lot more apprehensive about the prospect than if it was another Batman game (with all the characters associated with him and Gotham City!

Again though, I see the issue of reputation is all down to the game Rocksteady craft, not which characters they use. At this juncture, the have such experience, and have crafted such a world that if a 3rd game failed, it would be entirely their own fault. I know this sounds obvious, but in many ways it needs to be said. In many cases games and developers fial because they don't have the right grasp of the material, or it gets out of hand, it becomes too much for them. In Rocksteady's case, this doesn't apply, they have shown that without question they have a great understanding of the material, they have amazing control and insight, and can craft a magnificent story from the material at hand. With that in mind, any damage to their reputation would stem purely from there own hubris not from an inability to handle the material, which I believe is the centre of everyones concerns about these characters, that they will destabilize the game and that Rocksteady won't be able to handle them. I don't believe this will happen, but if it did, the blame would be entirely there own for not treating the material with respect. Again, I just can't see this happening. As I have said, Rocksteady craft brilliant stories, and there is no reason to think they won't do so with a JLA story. The other characters aren't weaker, and a lot of fantastic stories can and have been developed around the JLA, Rocksteady can do so again, particularly as this approach opens them up to a wider rogues gallery, Lex Luthor for example is every bit as brilliant a character as Joker, and the interactions between the villains and the JLA can make for some excellent scripts.

If I'm honest, all the arguments I hear from people against this idea so far come down to people either people just wanting a third Batman game, which I can certainly understand and would love to play, or they are underestimating the ability of Rocksteady to work this material and these characters and weave something as brilliant as they've already done. I think that is quite unjust of people, Rocksteady deserve more faith from people, they've already proven they can do this, and I see nothing to think they can't step up and do so again.

I am certainly not underestimating Rocksteady and their obvious ability - Personally I would prefer it if they made Separate DC hero games i.e a specific Superman game - I think they are one of a couple of developers that could actually pull this off! or a Specific 'insert DC superhero name here' rather than a 'Justice League specific game'. I wouldn't mind if there is also some crossover - i.e they appear in each others game as a guest appearance. However Batman in Metroplolis or anywhere outside of the very dark and Gothic environment of Gotham is (to me) a bit like a Ferrari on a rally track - it just doesn't look right. You could also put this the other way round - Other DC heroes/villains in Gotham City just isn't right - To a greater degree than in many other super hero story's - it is the city that created the hero and villains - A very Gothic city with Gothic Hero and Villains!

As I have said it is more than just whether or not Rocksteady can pull it off from a technical stand point (and I have said that I feel if anyone could they could and ways in which it could work too) but if it doesn't 'feel/look' right - regardless of how well it plays - it may still not work.

It is more than whether or not I have faith in Rocksteady and/or wanting another 'Batman' game!

It is time for Rocksteady to make a co-op superheroes game.

I actually love the thought of playing as Batman and having a boss battle against Superman. It's happened before, and it doesn't always involve kryptonite. Maybe just have the goal be to survive so long against him while doing damage, or using some of that crazy martial arts and redirect his flight as he's coming at you faster than a speeding bullet and slam him in to a wall ala that scene in one of the early Batman/Superman comics where he redirects Captain Marvel in to the side of a mountain. I mean, if Bats can take on Solomon Grundy then he should be able to make a good show of himself against Supes.

Unfortunately since it sounds like a JLA game, they're probably on the same side or something...