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[-]Question - I am a public school-oriented Mom with soon to be K. I've had intention of doing otherwise, except that we're not in a good zone and I oppose the idea of G & T in theory and practice. We can afford private. What private school is the most public school-like in sensibility, atmosphere, student and parent body?
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I almost hear what you are saying, but no school on earth that charges upwards of $30K/yr can be public-like in sensibility and atmosphere. The price of admission attracts a weatlhy population of parents, and their sensibilities are not the same as at PSXXX no matter where it is.
[ Reply | More ]Just go tour schools near your home. If your DC is going into K in Sept, you're way too late for this year. IDK anyone who would use the NYC public schools - even the few decent ones - if they could afford private. You're not going to send your kid to a failing school if you have the means to do otherwise. That's just silly.
[ Reply | More ]oh come one. I'ma private school mom, and I do know parents who choose public ( who have means). This is much, much more typical on the UWS, and in PS41/3, from my observations, than the UES.
[ Reply | More ]There are like 4 or 5 decent schools, and sure - people will choose them -- but not those who can easily afford private.
[ Reply | More ]That is more from the desire to 'be among their own' or the worry about stigma at a high powered career from going public (I know, because my DH ultimately decided on private because he got too many concerned looks when he said at the office that we were considering our local gen ed)
[ Reply | More ]It's not a desire to 'be among their own' or worrying about what other people think. It's a desire to provide the best education for your child. Excluding the very wealthy schools w/ huge PTA $$, anyone of means isn't going to risk their kid's future by putting them in a failing school.
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Wow, then you don't know us. Easily could afford private and dc was accepted (to 2) but prefer public. However, we have a lovely zoned gen ed with low-key parents (Brooklyn).
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You are public school-oriented, you oppose G&T but want private for your kids that is public-like. What kind of nonsense is this?
[ Reply | More ]np. ita with you. this sounds so silly. most people who oppose g&t think that it is silly to test 4yo and don't want their dc segregated by ability (why else would you oppose this). but private school is the essence of self-segregation, more often about $$ then by ability.at least be honest
[ Reply | More ]ITA. Is she against testing for G&T and having them in a separate class with a certain label? But for private you have to test them, make them get tested again on the playdate and they go to a separate school apart from those that can afford it and she is looking at schools with a TT label. Funny.
[ Reply | More ]These responses are ridiculous. People don't oppose G & T because of concern about testing. They oppose it because it sets up systems within a given school where there are perceived "haves" and have-nots" and also because sometimes the overt use of the term "gifted" lends itself to a sense of arrogance on the part of parents and even on the part of kids.
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Look into the School at Columbia U on 110th. Half the students are drawn from Columbia faculty and the other half of the applicants are drawn from lottery from district 3. The lottery aspect gives the student body more diversity, more range. The curriculum is not board of ed. Seemed like a progressive, private school curriculum. That's just my impression from considering it several years back.
[ Reply | More ]I would look at unzoned public options, or since finances are not an issue, move to a more palateable zone.
[ Reply | More ]OP: We have thought about that. But we love our area now, and the kids especially do because of proximity to a park. We basically have decided that the commute to wherever is worth staying where we are. But we also are hopeful to find a good school that shares our values, and is not about wealth or "gifted" labels.
[ Reply | More ]OK, this is getting weird. OP supports public schools, but not G&T public schools, and she wouldn't consider moving to a better zone because she lives near a park? What am I missing?
[ Reply | More ]OP: What is weird? Not happy with our public, not seeing viable G & T that would make us comfortable for a variety of reasons, think our kids are off in the neighborhood we live rather than moving. But would like a private school that has the same kinds of values that a great public has.
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[-]Can you please describe your ds for me if you got into C, St. B or St. D? We are not connected and nothing special about us. Please give us hope!
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Unconnected mom of 2. 1 Dalton and 1 HM. Think that kids got in because they are very people focussed. Warm.
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my DS: extremely verbal, enthusiastic and inquisitive. He also scored high. on the younger side so we were shocked when he got into C. We are average middle class and totally unconnected.
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Why do you say 'luck'. Good ERBs, nice dc are not really luck. In my ds' preschool it was pretty clear that the special dc got into good schools. Special for whatever reason: High scoring, charming, verbal etc. It is not just luck. I have this UB myth that people who where shut out keep repeating on here.
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Yes, but just spend some time in the classroom at your preschool and you will see that the quality of the dc is vastly different. And by that I just mean the quality at 4. I absolutely understand that many dc will shine later. However, at that particular stage some kids ARE more articulate, interested in adults etc.
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our ds was accepted at C and St B. St D was interested but was not in our top three and went away. Our kid is like many other boys we know. bright. outgoing. verbal. no real behavior issues. normal parents. we arent big $$$. we do care a lot about education and learning. high 90's erb's but not 99. honestly, if you read UB, you would think it's much harder than it is. ime (and we've now put two kids through this process), it does work out. really, it'll be okay. if you are a normal family and pay attention, you'll find a place for your dc.
[ Reply | More ]Unconnected DC got into Collegiate. 99x3 and DS is truly curious and interested in and knowledgeable about so many things (unlike his older sister). Very verbal and easygoing by nature. He did well in this process in general (didn't apply to St. B or St. D), I think, because he's outgoing, chatty and we're all pretty normal (I think!)
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[-]What's the deal with PS 84. Attended their Spring fair and was not impressed at all. Is there a Middle School attached to the Elem School. Some of the kids at the fair seemed much older?
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It's very segregated. I don't know many people who choose 282 G&T either. PS 9 is getting better, and I've heard great things about Community Roots - though, again - segregated.
[ Reply | More ]np What do you mean by segregated? My kids have gone/go to both 282 & CRCS. While in the heart of Park Slope 282 has less than 10% white kids b/c the traditional philosophy of the school doesn't appeal to most PSers. Community Roots, however, is extremely diverse with the highest % being Black, next White & then Multi-Cultural. I would pick 8 over 282 in a nanosecond because the school leadership at 8 is dynamic if not progressive, while 282 is just old school. G&T is not all that—the overall direction & leadership of the school is way more important IMHO.
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I was wondering about 282, too, for Pre-K and K. From the tour and what people say, it does seem very traditional and segregated and not in tune with what people *in the neighborhood* want. It comes down to the principal and leadership, I guess. But how is it that it's been stuck like this for awhile? Doesn't make sense to have much of district 13, north park slope, scrambling to find other options. Insight anyone?
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[-]Repost for NYC Schools... Does anybody know about Cathedral's class size? I thought I heard 20/class x 2 for K at the open house, but a parent said 15/class x 2 at a workshop. Are they increasing class size for next year, or I somehow heard it wrong? They just got some renovations for K's facility, so it's possible that they are up-sizing K...
2 replies [ Reply | Watch | Morethe past few years it's been larger. two teachers for 25 kids. i think last year, it was strange b/c they overaccepted and needed 3 K classes to fit everyone, so it's a bit in flux. i do know that they've done some renovations in that area of the school. But ultimately, they had historically shot for 2, not three classes. best of luck!
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[-]DS will be applying to K next year, so I'm trying to educate myself ahead of time. Can you ladies help me out? 1) I know siblings get preference, but assuming the class isn't filled with siblings, how do they determine who gets the spot? 2) What happens if you're waitlisted? Do the waitlists generally move and people usually end up in their zoned school? 3) If you can't get into your zoned school, it's my understanding you end up in your district - do they take distance into consideration? i.e. would I be shuttled to the furthest school in my district? I am in Forest Hills, District 28, if it matters. TIA.
4 replies [ Reply | Watch | MoreWe were on 3 wls, no accepts and got off 1 wl before the Friday when contracts were due. So, the wls do move. I recommend that you do the G&Ts as well. We didn't and that was one regret that we had. I know you didn't ask, but take the ERBs early so that you have an idea where you stand come the fall. GL!
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[-]Middle School Admissions Notification Letters: Please someone who has BTDT clarify for me - are the letters actually distributed at school in front of everyone? (this strikes me as very invasive) or are they sent home in the folder?
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | MoreOur school gave them out in sealed envelopes at the end of the day, right before the kids leave. They were told not to open until they got home, although of course, they could have opened them outside. The selective schools like NEST and ICE send home their separate letters, usually they come a day or two before the other middle school "match" letters. Those letters do NOT come via the elementary school but are mailed home.
[ Reply | More ]Depends on the school. Ours e-mails for parents to come in and pick up the letters.
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[-]IME the private kids - at least the boys - the private kids are more surface-nice, if that makes sense. Polite, no how to speak with adults, less likely to interrupt you when you're speaking, but if you catch them when they think you're not looking, they're more likely to be rolling their eyes, making crude comments about other kids behind their backs and mocking the adults. Remember, too, that private boys are often a year older in the same grade, so that may account for some of the surface-mice
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[-]Ugh, just heard from DOE that middle school letters will go out next week.
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[-]I have heard PS 87 is moving to restrict eligibility for afterschool programs only for PS 87 students. While I sympathize, it would be very hard to be quite as disposed towards 452 as they just aren't as established...
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[-]Choose one of the following pairs, and compare (yes they are different in approach in each case): "Dalton v. Trinity" "Ethical v. Riverdale" "Speyer v. Bank Street" "Trevor v. Mandell"
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[-]Which private is strong in math & science? is it true that most SS are stronger in liberal arts?
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NP: Math is part of the curriculum, math class every day. Science is "built in" to the other subjects, not set apart as specific science class. The little science that exists is very rudimentary. At the level the other subjects are taught in 1st or 2nd grade, they could certainly have more science as clearly the students are bright enough to learn.
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How many grades do they have? What do you really expect in 1st or 2nd grade for science. Math foundation is key.
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Yes and no. Speyer would be great (and probably the best) for kids who are highly advanced and have a strong passionate interest in math. Speyer would be a horrible (and probably the worst) for kids who are not advanced.
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A private with a strong and well eastablished Sinagpore math program as it provides the best foundation for advanced math, science/scientific testing, economics and finance.
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Several privates are planning to make the switch. It's expensive and requires retraining teachers.
[ Reply | More ]np: it's harder for the older schools to get "with it". tough to rewire the thinking of teachers who are set in their ways.
[ Reply | More ]Yes but it's actually doable since Singapore can be implemented at different learning levels. Mainstream TTs can adopt it at a normal or mainstream level and not have to worry about it at an advanced or Speyer level.
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it is what it is. someone asked a question. i answered. speyer teaches at an advanced level. it is what it is.
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oh good grief. this is not about speyer. dc doen't even go there. this is about singapore math. people think it's only for advanced learners. it's not! it can be implemented at different levels. some parents are kinda "fighting" against it at our school thinking more homework could result.
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Just stick with "advanced level" and leave it at that. Otherwise, you sound like a schmuck.
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Speyer level is understood to mean advanced level or multiple grades above standard level. Families who are against Singapore math are misinformed or are trying to scare others into thinking that adopting Singapore math could lead to a high pressure and intense environment like Speyer. Singapore math can be tailored to meet all learning abilities.
[ Reply | More ]How true. I certainly know I am obsessed with how my child's school compares with Speyer.
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^^she refused to listen to reason. she totally didn't get (or didn't want to get) that our school wouldn't add more work. homweork doesn't start until 2nd/3rd grade at our school. switching to singapore wouldn't change that since our K kids would be taught at the K singapore level. this nutty mom didn't understand that the reason speyer has homework at K is beacuse the kids in K are already doing 2nd/3rd/4th stuff.
[ Reply | More ]Oh yes, I really believe that a school is going to open up a discussion about this to anyone other than the Board and the faculty. Hey parents! Why don't you let us know how we should teach your kids. No. The Parents Association doesn't deal with issues like that at TT schools, or any other for that matter. Signed, former board member.
[ Reply | More ]This is true. While switching to Singapore Math would require a whole revamping of a school's math curriculum, retraining and possibly replacing teachers who aren't willing to be rewired, the program can be adopted and implemented to meet the needs of mainstream learners. To wit, privates such as HM, Avenues, Brearley are planning to adopt the approach. Two of the top ss girl schools, Nightingale and Marymount, have already made the transition.
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Avenues is using Singapore math and has a really well laid our math & science curriculum, and some great math hires. If you look at their progression in the curriculum guide, it is impressive & very developmentally logical and best practices oriented.
[ Reply | More ]Most people don't know that the only NYC private to make it to the MathCounts state level competition for the last three years was Trinity. The other two were public (Nest+M and Hunter). BTW, MathCounts is the top Middle School math competition, so we aren't talking about the highly regarded (on UB) Trinity High School kids, but the widely derided (on UB) Trinity sibs and legs for the most part. So it's Trinity that's the strongest of the privates in Math, at least through MS.
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[-]I went to the Speyer open house and I was not that impressed. In fact, I was a bit turned off by how pleased they were with themselves and their teaching methods. But don't all the TT schools have smart open-ended discussions with their students, and an integrated curriculum? Isn't it the same applicant pool anyway that applies to these schools? I wasn't seeing what they did that was so different that made it worthy of all the back-patting. Can anyone fill me in? (Btw, I'm not a Speyer parent, or a Speyer spammer, or a Speyer basher. I'm just a prospective parent who is trying to understand the school, and looking for other people's perspectives as well.) Thanks.
17 replies [ Reply | Watch | Morethe open-ended discussions and integrated curric. isn't a new concept..are you saying that they believe this is THEIR way of doing things?
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a good friend of mine is a teacher, he is very very impressive guy... totally different caliber of teacher from normal tt lower school teacher..
[ Reply | More ]The Speyer promoters on this board are mad as hatters. They may well not be representative of the school as a whole, but I would be a bit afraid to send my child there.
[ Reply | More ]Yep. The person posting here ^ about her friend is one of them. In my kid's tt there are 15 lower school head teachers. Probably a similar number at other schools. She knows her friend is a higher calibre teacher than these +/-105 people who are head teachers at tt--and that's leaving out asst teachers and specialist teachers. Amazing.
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It's true. No school is THAT unique and different among the best schools. I would heed the bad impression you got. There's a local top preschool here in Brooklyn where the PSD and a couple of the teachers really turned me off so we didn't apply -- and now I'm glad because I hear a lot of complaints from parents at the school about the very things I had suspected would be issues. I can't stand smug, superior attitudes either. Doesn't matter how tops the school is, that's unrelated. It's a certain kind of person who actually acts that way and it doesn't reflect the positive, kindly attitudes and values I want in a school.
[ Reply | More ]I have to tour the other schools on our list before I decide where to apply, but I was really turned off by the smugness. Are all the top schools like that? I guess they all want to differentiate themselves in whatever way they can, but I wish it didn't involve saying how they were better when they're really all mostly the same (when you're at a high level already).
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UB trolls routinely bash Speyer, so it seems odd that you're on here for other perspectives. You're more likely to get uninformed responses. If you're truly interested in the school, talk to admission and ask to speak with current parents. If you still don't get it or aren't impressed, the school probably isn't for you.
[ Reply | More ]I also attended the recent open house and did not find them smug at all. This post is so clearly fishing for hateful posts, really there was nothing objectionable about this school presented at the OH. I spoke to parents and to the Head of School after the main presentation and got a very clear idea of how they are different.
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[-]I just checked out matriculation stats for schools, and I'm surprised. I thought CGPS did better. Isn't it considered TT? Not trying to start a flame war; I'm a prospective parent, just trying to understand its relative ranking compared to the other top schools. Thanks.
7 replies [ Reply | Watch | Moreparent of tt dc, a huge % of top school admits are children of TT college alums.. if you these children away, the schools are closer together than anyone wants to admit... if your dc is not a super hardworking student, they will not do well at either tt or CGPS, if they are superstar hard worker etc, they will do well at both.. dont let the "reputation" get to you.. pick right school for family
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[-]So, Asian/white mix doesn't count as diversity these days (in terms of K admission in NYC), right? Even with DC totally Asian looking, and Asian parent is non American, and DC is completely bilingual?
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This is literally the largest racial group in my child's K class last year and first grade this year, in two different schools.
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NO IT DOES NOT COUNT. There are way too many Asian kids in NYC and they are no longer considered a minority for diversity purposes. Even Ivy League colleges do not consider Asians a minority any more. My father is on the board at one Ivy so I know this is a fact. Blacks, Hispanics, Natuve Americans are what counts as diversity!
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[-]Just saw a mom walking down Park Ave in a Dalton sweat shirt. Now that is sad!
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I hope you are being sarcastic. A grown up woman who identifies herself through the school her dc goes to that is just pathetic! My ds is at Collegiate and I would never dream of wearing their sweat shirt.
[ Reply | More ]NP - So is it pathetic when parents put a window decal on their car where the kids go to college?
[ Reply | More ]Yes, I find it lame. Why do you live through your dc? I have nothing against someone wearing a sweat shirt from the college they went to but the school of their children?
[ Reply | More ]so what? if it were bwl or hewitt or manhattan country school would you bother to be outraged? it's just a school. just a sweat shirt. no big deal.
[ Reply | More ]ITDA and I don't think you are being honest or fair. Of course we are I vested in and proud of Dcs at college. If we are paying for it, it's an integral part of our lives. Not all defining, just in a nice way. My dad has a mug from my college and always says its his favorite (and I'm 40, not just out of college). I think it's cute and I hope to be the same when my Dcs are in college 15 years from now.
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OP: I am surprised at these responses. I am not from here and find it plain weird. I would assume this woman has bigger achievements in her life than getting a dc into Dalton.
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Dalton mom here and I wear a Dalton shirt to the gym sometimes. By wearing the shirt I'm not saying that it's the biggest achievement of my life. It isn't an achievement for me and getting into kindergarten at age 4 isn't exactly an achievement either. I do love the school and it's a great shirt. No need to make value judgements. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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np: My son goes to a school with super aggressive parents. A few years ago I was visiting a friend who has a printshop and for giggles made up a car magnet that said, "My child was student of the year at X School -- 2009-10" And slapped it on one day. (I told a few friends before hand so they were ready for the show.) It was hillarious.
[ Reply | More ]Why is that sad? I think it's nice she supports her DCs school. Our DC's new school was selling jackets and I've been thinking of buying one. At our preschool, the t-shirts are used for fundraising. A lot of parents are wearing them. Am I missing something?? Also, I still wear my college sweatshirt and I have stickers on my car. Egads!
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I went to Trinity in the 90s and still sometimes wear my t-shirts and sweatshirts from there. Never even thought about it. They are my havent-showered/run-to-the-store clothes.
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Maybe he/she went there. Some times I'll be cold and take my ds's sweatshirt out of his backpack and put it on. So I might look like that but I'm really just cold, it's all that was around, and it fits. This has happened at least 3x that I can remember. I would rather see someone wearing that than a tshirt I saw a tourist wearing today that read, in giant letters, F*&^ YOU New York City. Nice.
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What's way sadder, I hope most of us can agree, is that this OP thinks anything of it at all. The fancy, showy types don't wear sweatshirts at all. And spelling types know that sweatshirt is one word. The jealous, freakish types over think sweatshirts and post about it on UB.
[ Reply | More ]Hi. I'm a Dalton mom and I wear a Dalton tee occasionally when my child asks me to in solidarity. I also have a drawer of school tees from my other child's school, my own hs, college and grad school. I also have a Marijuana: Billions served tee that my dh bought for me to wear to various PA events, but I'm not brave enough to do it. (And before you start, it was a joke, I don't smoke.)
[ Reply | More ]I don't have any sweatshirts in my own wardrobe, but I will occasionally throw on one of my DD's TT sweatshirts if I am working from home and don't want to dress up to go get a coffee. But I hope that I don't bump into anyone I know! It makes me feel young again. You need to relax.
[ Reply | More ]OP: This is fascinating to me. A whole new side of Americans I didn't know. In Europe I can not see anyone wearing a sweatshirt of their dc's school. But to each their own.
[ Reply | More ]it could be her school. why rule out the possibility that it may be her school? did it say "dalton mom" or something like that? btw, i went to oxford and plenty of parents proudly sport "oxford" wears. i was young and thought that was lame but now, i would proudly sport my DC's whatever, too.
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Even worse is when people put a Princeton cap on their child so the parents can advertise where they went to college.
[ Reply | More ]See, this doesn't make sense either. Why is it "advertising" where they went to college? What if they loved the school? They love the shirt? They just happen to have it? I'm so ok with this and trust me, I didn't go to Harvard. Wear your Princeton sweatshirt loud and proud. I'm pretty sure you're the only crazy person who thinks anything of it. I think you've had a hard life and are angry at the world.
[ Reply | More ]I guess I really hit a raw nerve there. Your little angel can keep his Princeton cap, sweatshirt, shorts and umbrella. I'm sure he only wears them because he loves the school, and no one but me will think you are completely pathetic.
[ Reply | More ]“There’s a certain kind of student at these schools who falls in love with the mystique and prestige of his own education. This is the guy who treats his time at Princeton as a scavenger hunt for Princetoniana and Princeton nostalgia: How many famous professors can I collect? And so on. And he comes away not only with all these props for his sense of being elect, but also with the smoothness that seems to indicate wide learning; college socializes you, so you learn to present even trite ideas well.” Quote from this article: http://bit.ly/1NxKuI
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my dh & i went to college together so we both spend a lot of time at our school with the kids - homecoming, games, reunions, etc. the kids love to get crap at the games or the bookstore so we have a closet full of jerseys, tees, hats, shorts, etc. with school name on it. certainly not us encouraging them to wear this stuff!
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