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[+] Spin-off post: Do you think the biggest factor in autism is environmental pollution? ... 70 replies
- Baby vaccines don't contain mercury anymore....
- the flu vaccine does...
Talk : : April 09, 2012
Spin-off post: Do you think the biggest factor in autism is environmental pollution? This includes the antibiotic filled, GMO food we eat, polluted air we breathe, materials-polluted water we drink, mercury filled shots given to babies, plastics we use everydy, and everything else you can think of. I believe this is the main factor since I have read an article explaining this theory but can't find the article to post here. In the article, it was explaining that during the development of fetus, environmental factors might (or may not) affect the division of cells in an abnormal way which could be the factor in autism. Assuming this is true, we do this to ourselves, all of us. Mothers of autistic kids shouldn't feel more or less guilty than any of us. By not doing enough about preventing/decreasing pollution, we should all share our part of guilt in this.
70 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.09.12, 12:53 PM Flag ]-
Basically, couples that delay their childbearing past their early thirties are taking a risk, which they refuse to aknowledge and instead blame anything but themselves for the problems. As was stated in another thread, the most convincing data points largely to past-the-expiration-date sperm and eggs and, with new study data also indicating that maternal obesity increases risk: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/10/us-obesity-autism-idUSBRE83900B20120410 So, fat granny moms, ditch grandpa, join a health club and find yourselves a young stud!
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:45 PM Flag
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if this would be the only factor then it would be easy to detect as no other parents younger than 40 for mom and 50 for dad wouldn't have this problem. but they do.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 12:58 PM FlagMy cousin has 3 kids, 2 with autism. Both parents were in early 30s at conception. So my money is on environment not age.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:00 PM Flagdude. early 30's IS old. it used to be all early to mid twenties. probably, having the first so late is different from having the 3rd and 4th so late due to the constant exposure to estrogen, etc.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:04 PM Flagnot sure about environment but I know too many autistic kids born to young parents so can't convince me it's age.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:04 PM FlagThis, this, this. Age may be a factor in some cases. All the moms of autistic kids I know had them in their twenties.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:10 PM FlagThere is no increase in autism in the young mother population.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:12 PM FlagIt's tempting to think that the trend for women to delay childbirth is behind the continuing rise of autism. But that's not the case. This trend accounts for less than 5% of the autism increase in California over the decade 1990-1999, calculate study researchers Janie F. Shelton, Daniel J. Tancredi, PhD, and Irva Hertz-Picciotto, PhD.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:17 PM Flag-
WRONG- this has been looked for and disproven time and time again.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:12 PM Flaghttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100208102411.htm
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:13 PM Flaghttp://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20100208/autism-risk-rises-with-mothers-age
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:14 PM FlagFrom YOUR OWN ARTICLE: It's tempting to think that the trend for women to delay childbirth is behind the continuing rise of autism. But that's not the case. This trend accounts for less than 5% of the autism increase in California over the decade 1990-1999, calculate study researchers Janie F. Shelton, Daniel J. Tancredi, PhD, and Irva Hertz-Picciotto, PhD.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:16 PM Flagnp: oh, ok. i think that's bullshit because it's a popular (older) parent website, not a scientific publication, so they don't want to piss off customers/reader. but let's say it isn't. let's say it's because as we get older, we have more exposure to environmental pollutants (the alternative explanation given). what are you gonna do? live in a bubble? that comment is bullshit. older eggs and sperms cause problems.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:25 PM Flag
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/178556.php
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:15 PM Flag
I think (no evidence, just hunch) that it is genetic caused by environment that is speeding up gene mutation. And happens more (but not exclusively) to older parents because the longer you live, the more chance you have of exposure to or of accumulating toxins.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 12:58 PM Flagexactly, that's what I'm thinking about being exposed to more toxins as you get older since they accumulate in your body. same thing can be linked to obesity as chances of accumulating toxins increase with gaining more fat tissue. I wish they would mention about obese moms' diets. do they eat organic food with less pollutants? or just obesity itself regardsless wht you put in your body is a factor?
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:01 PM FlagIn general you will not find a lot of obese organic eaters.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:04 PM FlagOP-I became obese during my pregnancy. I was eating mostly organic or healthy food like non-gmo, no antibiotics etc. I have a huge capacity to eat tons of carbs which can make you easily obese overtime as was my case. I started with 135pounds and ended up with 235+
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:10 PM FlagNot to hijack this, but how did you lose it? Was a lot water? Just curious.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:21 PM Flagsome of it (30pounds) did vanish on its own right after the birth of DB in a few weeks. some more (15-20 pounds) did go with more normal (no diet) eating and breastfeeding. after DB turned 1 and refused breastfeeding I started a rigirous exercise and 1200-1400cal diet. in about 5-6 months I was around 150pound. shedding off rest of it was more diffciult and took almost a year. but key was exercise and diet. for exercise I did lots of running and some weights.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:26 PM Flag
If anyone knows the answer to this, it will definitely be a random person on an internet message board.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 12:59 PM FlagSome studies point toward vitamin D deficiency as a possible reason: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=vitamin-d-and-autism
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:32 PM Flag-
Rise in autism does correspond to decrease in exposure to sun in pregnant women and in babies.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:50 PM FlagDo you know if taking vitamin D in pill form helps? Does the source of vitD has to be natural sunlight?
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 01:52 PM FlagPill form of vitamin D seems to be fine according to this article: http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128035439115067600
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 02:09 PM Flag
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Is nobody here familiar with statistics? The arguments on this post are kind of astounding. It's now well established that autism risk grows with paternal age. That doesn't mean that young parents cannot have an autistic child. It means as paternal age goes up THE RISK of having an autistic child goes up. But the vast majority of the increase in cases can be accounted for by diagnostic creep. This is especially clear because the number of severely autistic children has not increased, except for in certain populations like migrant workers (in which environment probably plays a role). The increase in cases tends to be for mild cases, such as asperger's, which come with special services--and they tend to occur in high-income families that live near other families with children who have a diagnosis. The diagnosis of ASDs spreads through social networks in affluent communities. It's about social environment--not about toxic chemicals.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 03:30 PM FlagI heard and read that autism is on the rise in affluent communities because they have more access to better healthcare and diagnostics. also more on the rise because there are better diagnostic technics than 10-20 years ago. not sure what to believe anymore.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 03:44 PM FlagI recently listened to a special report on autism on PBS and they had many guests. One particular from the CDC stated that the higher numbers are NOT because of the increases in diagnoses and she had many reasons to back this up, one main being that they still count the same. She really made it sound like an epidemic.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 08:43 PM Flag
[+] New research study says obese pregnant moms have 60% higher incidence of having kids ... 28 replies
- Look, I understand why everyone wants to avoid accepting that it is simply genes with maybe a combination of age related issues because of old eggs but to really believe it is aerosol, vaccinations, certain vitamins etc. is just foolish....
Talk : : April 09, 2012
New research study says obese pregnant moms have 60% higher incidence of having kids with autism. Serious study done in CA. reported on ABC, WSJ, Reuters, CNN, etc.
28 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.09.12, 09:28 AM Flag ]every dc that I know that's autistic has a thin or skinny mom.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:29 AM Flagnp: I wonder how many obese moms you know? If you live in an upper middle class enclave there aren't going to be many.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:31 AM Flagor: I live in the LES, lots of city housing projects in my 'hood. I have 3 dcs so I've been in the mommy and me class, preschool and elem. schools for the last 13yrs. Unfortunately I know way too many ppl with autistic dcs (all boys) and each mom is not even chubby
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:33 AM Flag
Math alert:if you dont know 40 autistic children your set is not statistically significant. Plus if you live in nyc, also not a typical weight distribution of pregnant women, so not a random sample.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:32 AM FlagStudy said that 80% of the moms with autistic kids were not obese.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:34 AM FlagStudy did NOT say that 60 % of obese moms have kids with autumn. It said there was a 60% increase among obese moms vs non-obese moms. So .... Making up numbers .... If 1% of kids are born with autism, that would mean that for obese moms, 1.6% will have autism.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:37 AM Flag
just more researchers trying to justify their salary. Nobody knows the answer to this issue
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:35 AM FlagOk oh wise one .... If no one does research, how do we start to get the answers??
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:41 AM Flagfor starters, there isn't more autism now than in the past so they should look at the new way they are making the diagnosis and coorelate it back to earlier cases that were diagnosed differently. Studying only cases with an autisic diagnosis is a waste of time since the population is so much smaller than it needs to be
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:48 AM Flag
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I am not a geneticist or a scientist ...but I have been reading a lot about this. There has been a 1,000% increase (10x) in autism over the past 40 years. Absolutely, some of that is due to increased diagnosis. But not all. And the fact is that human genetic mutations do not change materially over a 40 year period. So these dramatic increases cannot be explained only by genetics. Makes sense, right?
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:52 AM FlagYes, what you have said does make sense. To help fill the gap you accurately point out would be age of eggs and the huge increase in women over 35 and 40 having their 1st dc. and the answer to that would be age. I am an old(er) mother and the risks for any number of disorders rose significantly due to age. Disorders that would never have registered had I been 25. To assume that we are all at risk of downs and not autism due to chromosome abnormalities in deteriorating eggs would be silly. I have never known a young women with DS who have autism that did not have a relative with the same or "odd" undiagnosed disorder. Then among those that do not they are significantly older.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 10:15 AM Flag
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Look, I understand why everyone wants to avoid accepting that it is simply genes with maybe a combination of age related issues because of old eggs but to really believe it is aerosol, vaccinations, certain vitamins etc. is just foolish.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 10:36 AM Flagnp. Especially when in the past women were worse not better about diet and environmental exposures. Dieting during pregnancy, coloring their hair, using aerosol hairspray every single day, using bleach to clean and do laundry, smoking and drinking during pregnancy.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 10:52 AM Flag
From an article describing the research-"This is one of the earliest studies to look at the prenatal environment, at a more detailed level, to see whether it was a factor behind the rising rates of autism," said lead author Paula Krakowiak, a doctoral candidate in epidemiology at the University of California, Davis. Further work is needed to confirm the results, the researchers said. Their study appears online today (Apr. 9) in the journal Pediatrics.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 11:07 AM Flag
[+] New study links autism and other disorders to maternal obesity. I wonder if that woul... 47 replies
- They are through the roof because the real culprits -- vaccines, medications during pregnancy like progesterone, etc. -- are not being investigated and...
- vaccines were researched and rejected - get over it!...
- the vaccine issue has been debunked...
Talk : : April 09, 2012
New study links autism and other disorders to maternal obesity. I wonder if that would also explain why there is a greater prevalence of developmental disorders in the lower socio-economic environments?
47 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.09.12, 05:06 AM Flag ]My dc has autism. I am not old nor overweight. I am in a support group and many, many moms are neither. This is instance. Look at Jenny McCarthy. Things like this make us upset. Sorry but they do.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:02 AM Flagmy computer changes words - I wrote insane but it made it instance.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:03 AM Flagwhy does it make you insane? the study didn't say it was the only reason why children get autism. and clearly doctors still don't know very much about
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:05 AM Flag^^ sorry === about "being on the spectrum. The study only said that obese women (with i think type 2 diabetes and/or high blood pressure) are 70% more likely than non-obese, etc. women to have a child with autism.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:06 AM FlagIt makes me insane because what you may not know is that parents who have dc's with any type of challenge feel incredibly guilty. We spend hours secretly wondering if we ever did anything wrong if it was our fault and how we would do anything to change it. So to hear things like 'being overweight or poor or old' is just ignorant. Sorry I'm sensitive on this subject.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:11 AM Flagagain - why is it just ignorant? i am sorry you feel guilty.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:14 AM FlagBecause it implies that the parent could have avoided the outcome. This is not the case.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:17 AM FlagIA and i think all of these studies are grasping at straws, and trying to make parents feel like they can control the outcome of their children, which they really can't. austism and allergies are through the roof and NO ONE knows why.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:25 AM FlagIn many cases, it is not. But in some cases, the outcome may have been avoidable if the risk factors were known. If a link can be established between autism and a factor within someone's control, so much the better (although whether or not obesity is subject to easy control is another matter-signs are showing that it may not be.) It is pretty clear that many factors are involved in autism and that the mechanism for disease may be different for two children with the same diagnosis. I don't think it's wrong to isolate whatever influences you can, and no sane person is reading fault into this. I understand feeling guilty though. It's not a rational thing. I hope you win out over the guilt completely -you don't deserve to feel that way.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 08:59 AM Flag
if you feel so strong about it, go do an empirical study. i have heard of women (even on here) who have gotten pregnant at 45. i wouldn't generalize that to mean that 45 year old women have no fertility issues.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:21 AM FlagI got pg at 42 and delivered at 43. First/only. This makes it seem easy. It was not. I wish I began earlier. I had to have high risk specialist and luckily everything turned out perfectly. It isn't ideal to wait so long but some times life has different plans for us.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:35 AM Flag
OP. not trying to make moms feel bad, just commenting on a study that's out there. And there are more poor kids with special needs, that's just a fact . The more we study the more we'll learn, we can't keep our heads in the sand.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:35 AM Flagthose studies usually mount to nothing because we can't to double blind studies getting 100 random women pregnant at 40 and another random 100 pregnant at 22 and see the real results. i imagine bad fetal nutrition, prenatal care, substance abuse and bad infant care accounts for a lot of socioeconomic problems, not so much the obesity directly, though it could be a correlation with the general bad nutrition for the baby.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 06:45 AM Flag
Link to the study, please? Is there anything in there to suggest causation? I mean, obesity is way up across the board, so we could come up with correlations between maternal obesity and *anything* that's on the rise; it doesn't necessarily follow that there's a meaningful relationship there.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 08:15 AM Flaghttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/03/28/peds.2011-1601
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 08:23 AM Flag
Correlation, not causation. If I was stressed by all the needs of a SN DC, I might think weight management is not a priority for me.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:02 AM FlagThe ONLY correlation I have seen consistently cited is that the age of the father can relate to autism, i.e. the older the father the larger the risk. DH and I were pretty young and still have spectrum kid.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:19 AM FlagOur bodies have not caught up with our modern (sedentary) lifestyle. We aren't built to eat this much, sit this much, stare at a screen this much. We are hunters or hunter/gatherers, whose fertility is finite. We have to respect where our bodies are at and stop being surprised when we find out that our lifestyle contributed to health and disease. That said, I still don't think that this is a proven link to autism. And I think "autism" is a catch-all phrase, like "Asian" or "textiles".
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 09:26 AM Flag
From what I've read, I would bet it has more to do with diet. That Obese people have deficiencies in certain nutrients and don't make the best food choices is pretty hard to argue.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 10:26 AM FlagI have Aspergers. My mother was 23 when she had me and gained approximately 30 pounds on her normally 100 pound frame. While that might equate to some cases of autism, it definitely does not work from me. Both my uncle and my father both have Aspergers and I'm pretty sure my brother does too but he hasn't been formally diagnosed. I have a 3.5yr old dd who I am happy to say, seems NT. I'm not sure I would jump on any one reason for a catch all cause. There are lots of pieces in this puzzle.
[ Reply | More ]04.09.12, 12:30 PM Flag
[+] Is it okay to give a 5 yr old an MMR shot if she is getting over a viral infection? O... 3 replies
- Your pediatrician will likely not do the vaccination for it if there is a fever present. The MMR shot is one that is likely to have a response. I would wait for the virus to pass over, then vaccinate. Don't listen to OR, this is your MMR booster likely- and is ok to delay a few weeks until DC...
Talk : : April 06, 2012
Is it okay to give a 5 yr old an MMR shot if she is getting over a viral infection? Or should we just wait a week?
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.06.12, 02:13 PM Flag ]Considering you've already waited a full year past when it was recommended, I say just do it already. Unless she has a fever over 102 currently, she is fine to get it.
[ Reply | More ]04.06.12, 02:18 PM FlagYour pediatrician will likely not do the vaccination for it if there is a fever present. The MMR shot is one that is likely to have a response. I would wait for the virus to pass over, then vaccinate. Don't listen to OR, this is your MMR booster likely- and is ok to delay a few weeks until DC is healthy.
[ Reply | More ]04.06.12, 04:05 PM Flag
[+] my ds has been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder... he is 5.5, mostly sensit... 107 replies
- Parents will go to enormous lengths to deny that anything is there fault. Why else would so many parents desperately latch on to vaccines, or environmental issues as explanations for autism, ADD/ADHD, and SPD when the real reason is used-past-the-expiration date sperm and eggs or just bad parenting? Because any answer that puts the responsibility on the parents is just...
Talk : : April 04, 2012
my ds has been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder... he is 5.5, mostly sensitive to being touched by other kids and has a short fuse.... he is very smart, sociable and outgoing, just gets mad really easily and still has tantrums over minor things, such as a coat being zipped up or anything being lost or out of place.... i am so unsure of the diagnosis, though he is really difficult... people act like he is really spoiled/ badly behaved... i am exhausted by him and by other people's opinions... do children grow out of sensory disorder or does it just transform into somthing else? any help appreciated...
107 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.04.12, 12:08 PM Flag ]- [ Removed by moderator ] [ More ]04.04.12, 12:10 PM
np: I used to work with a guy whose son had this dx. He and his wife were good, disciplined parents.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:12 PM Flag-
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How much time did you spend with them? People do one thing but say another and consistency is key which is often the problem.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:18 PM Flag-
I just don't believe you can make a sound judgment about parents from talking to them.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:23 PM FlagYou are a fool if you don't get why this is being bandied about- it is NOT the parents.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:25 PM FlagOf course it's never the parents. Never ever ever. Especially the mother. It's always someone else's fault.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:26 PM FlagParents will go to enormous lengths to deny that anything is there fault. Why else would so many parents desperately latch on to vaccines, or environmental issues as explanations for autism, ADD/ADHD, and SPD when the real reason is used-past-the-expiration date sperm and eggs or just bad parenting? Because any answer that puts the responsibility on the parents is just soooo wrong. LOL.
[ Reply | More ]04.08.12, 11:05 AM Flag
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Ooooh. And I'm sure that any bad parenting habits would have immediately come to light during your "talks" with them.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:18 PM Flagpp: I have little trouble believing you don't have people close enough in your life that you feel you know them.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:24 PM Flagnp: Every single parent I know with a child who is just you know a boy, or difficult and oppositional etc has parents who make excuses. There are real disorders and there are BS disorders.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:30 PM Flagpp: I have two boys. One as easy as pie. Hell easier than pie. He's easy as brownies from a box. The other one is hard as nails. Fights me on everything. It isn't a disorder, it is just a different kid. #2 is willful and strong. It will probably serve him really well in life but right now, it is aging me. But the ds of my friend, that is something completely different. I don't know enough about psych to talk about the diagnosis and the disorder -- but there was more there than just the effects of poor parenting choices.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:49 PM Flag
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ITA. Everything is a "disorder" these days. It's a win-win for everyone, except the child; the parents get the blame shifted away from them, the medical industry gets to "treat" yet another dreamed-up "disorder", but the kids, in the end, don't get what they really need: proper parenting.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:13 PM FlagYou have no idea. It just means he is a quirky kid. The SCHOOLS do this crap so they can maintain no-child-left-behind high scores and get funding. It is a racket and NOT the parents' fault. In fact, there is no real PROBLEM, so it is NO ONE's fault.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:19 PM FlagI have to say, I might agree with this. We found out that at our kids preschool, if they could get one kid diagnosed with something, they got an extra teacher in the classroom, paid for by the city, they also leaned on us very hard to go through a particular agency for our evaluation. It made us uncomfortable and we did it a different way, through our doctor.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:27 PM FlagYou know, the Board of Ed does not recognize sensory disorders (or dyslexia, for that matter). The schools often have to spend $2500 to get kids diagnosed and $5000 on services and they only get $3000 a year on services. I find that there is an element of fudging on every end, but while some kids are needlessly diagnosed, more kids need diagnosis than have them.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 04:27 PM Flag
I think this is a made-up diagnosis to make people feel better for not having their kid labeled somewhere along the spectrum of unpalatable diagnoses. My son is a year older than yours, has those behaviors, and was diagnosed as autism spectrum disorder. I am a social worker and I think he could as easily have been diagnosed as ADHD or even an Anxiety Disorder. The label doesn't matter - it is the treatment that does. For my son, after we exhausted all other treatments, we started him on a small dose of risperdal and it helped tamp down his impulsivitiy and aggression. It hasn't gotten him all the way there, but this plus natural maturing has helped a lot.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 04:27 PM Flagnp -maybe you should re-read your post, because it's unbelievably undisciplined in pretty much every possible way
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 06:13 PM Flag-
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My DS has a different, very mild iteration of SPD. I think it is something lots of children had when we were young, and most outgrew or learned coping mechanisms, but if OT will help then why not get him the best resources to help him through it?
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:15 PM Flaghe gets OT, and help at his school, but i feel like he is getting more and more pathalogized..we have lots of techniques that he uses to calm down, but at the core he has such a short fuse. he is a full blooded BOY type. he won't sit still in class, his responses are very fast and short tempered... he does have a sweet side, and is aware of his behavior and want to " be less aggressive"...
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:18 PM FlagOf course "lots" of children have it when they're young -- ALL children have it, in fact. It's called a BLANK SLATE. They "outgrow" it mostly through parental teaching and discipline -- you know, LIFE.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:19 PM Flag-
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I don't know much about this issue, but I do know that the so-called "blank slate" concept of the child psyche has long been discarded as a viable model. You shouldn't be pressing so hard with your argument if you don't know even the basics of child development. How could you possibly know what constitutes a disorder?
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 05:05 PM Flag
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If you want to improve things faster go to an OT. They can help with the sensitivities. A sensory gym is great if you can afford it. I will say by 6.5 my ds is finally outgrowing some of his sensory issues but sometimes he is still difficult. Ignore the idiots on this board who say it is poor parenting - there is something going on and your job as a parent is to help him learn to cope with it.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:19 PM FlagWe have heard this term bandied about in reference to our son too, by people at his school, but when we asked our pediatrician about it she just laughed. I think it is the new disorder of the hour but there is not much scientific research behind it. I hope you won't worry too much, I think kids just mature at different rates. Rather than talking to a special Ed teacher, I would take him to your pediatrician if you are worried. After all, they have an MD.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:20 PM Flag-
My point was, she had heard this BS "diagnosis" with increasing frequency and it is not a medical condition and real doctors think it is bunk. She gave us a referral to a wonderful OT provider and we are doing OT on the off chance that it could help, but people need to know this is probably a fad and not worry that there is something seriously wrong with their kid.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:30 PM Flag
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They can overcome this with help. It is a tough road, and the widespread ignorance makes it harder. But it can get easier. Frontload the intervention. Individual OT and a social group with the OT. Consider a camp oriented toward kids with these issued. It's a drag it took this long to figure out what's going on, but with help you'll see progress. When he gets better the bitches will say he just outgrew his behavior problems and you wasted time and money. Or they'll say you finally got tough. Put them on ignore, and if you're fragile, just don't discuss with anyone you don't know in advance is informed. GL.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:25 PM FlagI don't know anything about sensory processing disorder - but my DD can be very frustrating in this way as well. One thing to note, tantrums do last into the 6's. I think that they are learning things like being flexable, rolling with the punches, etc. My approach has been to work on learning to control yourself (DC). We have bought books to read together - Calm Down and Work Through Anger is a good one - it is a kid's book. We have worked on removing yourself from the situation, counting to ten, breathing techniques.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:26 PM Flagthank you everyone so far, i am so appreciative... at my wits end, anything positive is helpful...
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:26 PM FlagHang in. It's expensive but if you can get in to see a good OT, it's worth doing. Your DS will be so much better off having more help now, before all his ideas about being a not good at school, not good with other kids, are even firmer in his mind. Be careful how you talk about him. Don't let frustration define who he is. He is still developing, give him support to build around the difficulties.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:44 PM Flag
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I think it's really unfair of people not to recognize that there is such a disorder. I think that's what I had as a kid but it wasn't diagnosed back then. Daycare was torture for me - I really hated the noise, I just couldn't take it. I was so happy when elementary school started and kids were supposed to sit quietly most of the day. It was a huge relief for me. To this day, I can't take extremely noisy restaurants like Pastis, but mostly, I don't have an issue with it anymore.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:30 PM FlagFriends ds was dx'd with this in preschool. He's now a teen. He hasn't outgrown it per se, but has learned how to deal with it in a more socially acceptable way. He does sometimes wear ear phones to block stimuli, has a 504/IEP in school for test taking, classroom adaptations (he's allowed to walk around). It's not parenting b/c her 2 other kids are "normal". He has food adversions and does not eat well. He also is dx'd with Asperger Syndrome. He has O/T and some counseling and drug therapy. GL!
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:50 PM FlagOur younger ds has this (and FWIW is well-behaved, but nearly starved himself because he was so sensitive to having anything touch his mouth). His neurologist says you don't "fix" it, but rather work on de-sensitizing the child so they can tolerate everyday stimuli better and help them develop socially acceptable coping mechanisms. It is overdiagnosed and abused as a label these days, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 12:58 PM Flagmy friend's son had exactly this. He was exhausting but he really did not want to be bad. You could see that he could not help himself (he could also not go to the movie theater, was picky eater, etc). He is now the loveliest most adventurous 10 year old you will ever meet. He still needs to have special socks without seams and a couple of other sensory accommodations but, other than that, he has completely outgrown this.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 01:11 PM FlagWho is diagnosing these kids w/ this BS 'disorder' - your DS is a 5YO BOY. Most 2-5YO boys are like this to some extent - it's not a disorder. My DS has a melt down if anything is out of pattern and he's tired. He's not disordered, he's 3.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 01:13 PM FlagI may have had the same opinion as you had my 3rd DC not been born. From his infancy he was different from my older DCs. Very sensitive to everything. Lights, sounds, smells, etc. at 18 months he was having hour long uncontrollable tantrums. I had NEVER seen anything like this in my older DCs. He would refuse to eat anything but certain foods, he would freak out if his body positioning was slanted while being held. He was so HARD, and we were very devoted to parenting/discipling him correctly. 5 yrs of OT, and he is a new child- not perfect but enjoyable, and most people who have known him through the years have made comments on how much he has changed.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 03:21 PM FlagI'm not suggesting that it has to do w/ parenting - just that it's COMMON and NORMAL - not a disorder. And it's nothing new. I guess what used to be family experience and sharing has become OT. Some kids have serious issues and need therapy. At least 75% of the kids I know are just normal kids walking around w/ labels. I have a fair amount of experience w/ the 0-6 crew. Nothing OP described is 'disordered'
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 05:26 PM FlagReally? How normal is it for my 3 yr old son to demand an all liquid diet, and to not eat anything for three days in protest of not being provided an Ensure drink. Have you ever seen a 4 yr old tantrum for more than an hour because they were upset by the smell of burnt food or the sound of a hair blow dryer? YOU KNOW NOTHING about this disorder. Crawl back under your bridge, troll.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 09:23 PM Flag
Do you really know about OT and sensory disorders? Some kids really can't tolerate textures, loud noises, foods, etc. They act out because of it, and it has nothing to do with parenting.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 03:48 PM Flagnp - my DS would chew the heck out of his shirts, run into walls deliberately in unstructured times (like waiting for teacher to open classroom door at preschool drop off), make loud noises, bump other kids, fall down on purpose. 149 on Hunter test. Now after OT it's so much better. OT gym helped wiht body awareness and we were able to segue into regular sports which also help to get out energy, work on balance and strength, and settle. When he's really hyper we wll wrap tight in a blanket or say jump up and down 10 times and those things help. It may not be a true disorder but it caused social problems and no private school would touch him.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 06:20 PM Flag
It is real and you can help your child by getting them OT - they will work on this and then dc will nto be as bothered. Yes, they will learn to deal at some pt. but why not help them. Also, whne upset, tell dc, I understand that this is really upsetting you - how about we try to work it out this way. By validating their feeling, they start to calm down. Why make your childs and your life harder when there are things that can be done to help?
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 01:15 PM FlagSo many adults are in therapy to deal with anger management, substance abuse, anxiety, etc. yet people think that disorders in kids are just bad parenting? I don't understand - maybe if kids learn to cope with their issues at a young age, they won't need so much help as adults. My younger child is more sensative to sensory changes - more likely to get overwhelmed when it's loud or crowded, has more difficulty handling his emotions, etc. - not to the point that it's really a problem, but definitely in a way that makes him a more challenging child to parent and where my traditional strict discipline isn't always the answer. Sure there are a lot of undisciplined kids out there, but some of them may simply have parents whose "normal" parenting methods don't work and are trying to figure out what to do.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 01:21 PM FlagMy ds has this issue (minor) . Nothing to do with discipline. They need therapy, but district doesn't fund for this. My kids appear to be the worst behaved, it's so overwhelming , exhausting, and depressing at times. Ds is gifted, has your ds been evaluated? ( iq test is given) I believe they will grow out of it. Very high intelligence is a symptom of this, apparently their little brains are on overload. My 3 yo can memorize a book after we read it to him once. People who say undisciplined clearly have no clue, so ignore
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 02:19 PM Flagyes, he's also supposedly gifted, he did the hunter test and got 154, has done really well on other tests... he has an ear for language and is smart, but he doesn't seem so smart compared to other kids i have seen but i think its very hard to tell.... he has good days and bad days, he is also left handed which sometimes supposedly contributes to all this sensory stuff
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 02:26 PM FlagBoth of my boys appear to be left handed. Both speak 2 languages. Both kids have annunciation issues. Sounds like your dc is gifted. Doctor and therapists have said when a child is this bright, they are just wired differently. they try to help through therapy, but when the district sees such high scores, they won't foot the bill for this. maybe dc doesn't seem smart because of behavior? My kids behave like 2 and 3 yo frat boys. People just don't understand! It's tough
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 02:33 PM Flag-
This is what I don't get about this board. People are so quick to brag about their DC's high test scores, etc. Yet no one ever seems to also have "gifted" kids with all the issues that come along with it. Gifted kids present many challenges! And the people who say these diagnoses are bunk have clearly never parented kids with special needs.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 03:10 PM Flag
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I know this will get flames - but, I find that my son's sensory issues are much worst when I find artificial food colors in his diet. He does not have SPD, but is in OT for other reasons. But I find the tantrums, touchiness, etc. go way up based on his intake of dyes. And unfortunately, not just food (chewable childen's medicine makes him crazy). OT has been wonderful for my son - he has made huge leaps (he just turned 5, started OT in October). Some books I have found are, "The Out of Sync Child," & "Raising Spirited Kids." There are also so many resources on the internet. Often times you just need to find the sensory stimulation and have them control it - hopefully you will learn some good coping skills at OT. Good luck.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 02:59 PM FlagNo flames from me. My son was diagnosed with SPD and has improved greatly with therapy, but we also saw a dramatic change in behavior when we went on an all natural (mostly organic) diet. It is a lot of work not to maintain, but has been so beneficial to him. Would recommend it to anyone w SPD child.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 03:27 PM Flag
SPD is a made up illness. It replaces SID (Sensory Intergration Disorder) which NO one would ever accept - so they changed it and tried again. Take care of your son - don't dx him now. Wait until the end of 3rd grade. If still problems THEN do something. BTDT.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 04:00 PM FlagThis is stupid. People can be vision or hearing impaired, why can't they have other things wrong with their senses? Believe me, if your sense of touch were out of whack, it'd affect how you behaved. I had damage to my olfactory nerve as a complication of anaesthesia during surgery years ago, it took me months to learn to deal with the overwhelming change in sensory input, and that was as an adult.
[ Reply | More ]04.04.12, 06:26 PM Flag
[+] Forgive the boring post, but I'm about to have my first baby and realized that we don... 32 replies
- autoimmune issues in our generation children). i think its one part our current environment and one part that we were are inheriting roughly 50 yrs of increasingly toxic products (from GMO foods, to polluted water systems to over vaccination to plastics that have been leeching toxic chemicals, toxic food coloring etc etc). we survived, but look what is happening to our kids and future generations. don't fool yourself - inform yourself...
Talk : : April 03, 2012
Forgive the boring post, but I'm about to have my first baby and realized that we don't have any diapers in the house! Any recommendations for the best diaper brand? Did you buy size NB or will most babies require a bigger size? Thanks!
32 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.03.12, 01:09 PM Flag ]NB Pampers - don't buy too many in case you have a really big baby - they'll be in size 1 soon.
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:11 PM Flag-
you should google "gel" and chlorine in diapers and learn about how hazardous this is really. much like the BPA in the bottles that the industry knew was toxic for the last 100 years, the manufacturers of the diapers also know all the diseases that it exposes kids to. its all online - you just have to look.
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:14 PM FlagI'm easily persuaded on these matters. Do you have a recommendation on a brand? I just saw Huggies Pure and Natural
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:16 PM Flagi used these and they sell them online and at babies r'us - http://www.tushies.com/ (organic and gel free)...if you use bottle, use BPA free make sure...and pacifiers, make sure they are the clear kind - the others are also filled with awful things
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:19 PM Flag
see this- http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Diapers
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:16 PM FlagOMG! How did we all survive? Just don't keep your kid in diapers until they're 4 and they'll be just fine.
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:18 PM Flaghow? look at cancer rates and the growing rates of god knows how many disorders our generation is giving birth to (just look at autism for one or autoimmune issues in our generation children). i think its one part our current environment and one part that we were are inheriting roughly 50 yrs of increasingly toxic products (from GMO foods, to polluted water systems to over vaccination to plastics that have been leeching toxic chemicals, toxic food coloring etc etc). we survived, but look what is happening to our kids and future generations. don't fool yourself - inform yourself
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:26 PM Flag-
dont have to.just buy organic,and make a choice to not feed my kids garbage with pesticide and chemicals and avoid plastics.wont save the world but does lower their toxic load.in the EU they banned many food colorings that in the US they have not - for one reason only. the public in the UK was in an uproar over a study that came out confirming links between certain food coloring and spectrum disorders. the govt forced huge companies like kraft to change manufacturing practices in the UK and then EU. in the US they did not have to - b/c the public responds just like you. as a result, your kids suffer. not about communes just ones willingness to help fund companies that poison your kids for their bottom line
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:40 PM Flag
We'll cure cancer - pretty much there. And who the hell wants to get old?
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:43 PM Flagwell, hopefully your kids will share your sentiment when they are giving birth to children who are now in a world where autism rate will be 1 in 20, which is where it is going. in less than 10 yrs the rates have gone from 1 in 120 to 1 in 85...do the math. and imagine a world where all those kids grow up and that many adults are autistic, and others are asthmatic or suffer from any number of other autoimmune issues. if we don't educate our kids to make smart choices - their kids will have none. not being alarmist, but a realist. we have to turn this ship around somehow - we have the information - our parents did not.
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:51 PM Flag
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NB and get organic diapers only - others have gel in them and chlorine that is soooo toxic
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:11 PM FlagThe hospital will send you home with enough for a few days. Try what they give, if there is no leakage (different diapers have different shape and some people have leakage issues) then stick with what works. If you do have leakage, mix it up. (One of my dc could wear Pampers Cruisers without a problem but the other ones he'd crap up the back all the time.)
[ Reply | More ]04.03.12, 01:30 PM Flag
[+] DS's 4 Month shots this week. Did you break them up or all together? Reasons for what... 12 replies
- So you call total bluff on any connection to autism and vaccines? I am not saying I believe there is, just asking...
- NP- did all vaccines on schedule for both dcs. But if I thought that one...time to talk to you about this. I did all vaccines on time as I had always planned but felt better...this unfounded and dangerous rumor. They have eliminated mercury from vaccines so aside from small possible side effects like sniffles, redness,...
Talk : : April 02, 2012
DS's 4 Month shots this week. Did you break them up or all together? Reasons for whatever you chose? TIA
12 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.02.12, 08:00 AM Flag ]Did them all together, and everything was fine. I didn't have any compelling reason to do something different other than what my doctor recommended.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 08:09 AM FlagSo you call total bluff on any connection to autism and vaccines? I am not saying I believe there is, just asking other's opinions.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 08:20 AM FlagNot necessarily, think there are risks and benefits. But I couldn't find clearly articulated and scientifically supported evidence to convince me that delaying would make a difference. Fortunately, everything is fine and is fine with everyone I know who did the 4 month shots.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 08:25 AM FlagDon't start this one. The replies will just get nastier as they mount. I didnt separate out but did not give a flu shot on top of others at same visit. Would have separated out MMR but you can no longer get all 3 separately. Waited until #1 was 2 and speaking efore MMR and am doing the same w #2. Moved between DCs and neither batted an eyelash about this approach.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 08:26 AM FlagYes, I think the autism thing is nonesense. Did all vax on regular schedule. 2 normal dss'.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 08:33 AM FlagPlease god please do not start this endless morass of sanctimommy-crunchy-anti-vaccine mumbo-jumbo. The guy who did the PAID, limited study was ultimately fined and I believe professionally reprimanded for starting this unfounded and dangerous rumor. They have eliminated mercury from vaccines so aside from small possible side effects like sniffles, redness, etc. they are fine. You need to trust your pediatrician who's treated 100s of children.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 10:23 AM Flag
[+] CDC says 1 in 88 children identified as on the autism spectrum. Not that long ago it ... 29 replies
- It is something environmental from our modern living. Autism is virtually absent in Amish communities. This could mean a myriad of things. They have no vaccinations (please don't flame me I am not anti-vax), they don't have electronics, they live in communities that are exposed to less pollutants, they don't drink, etc. It makes me wonder what it is....
Talk : : April 01, 2012
CDC says 1 in 88 children identified as on the autism spectrum. Not that long ago it was 1 in 10,000.
29 replies [ Reply | Watch | More04.01.12, 08:05 PM Flag ]Here: http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0329_autism_disorder.htm
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:06 PM FlagI am starting to believe it's all the electronics that are in our homes. Cell phones,computers,tablets, microwaves, DVD players, cable. Previous generations never had so much exposure to these "magnetic waves" - you can laugh all you want, but I honestly think it has something to do with why more children are ok at birth then 6-12-18.2 years into life all of a sudden are afflicted with autism
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:11 PM Flag-
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Np: they're not ok at birth, they just weren't seen by anyone capable of noticing atypical behavior in infants or toddlers. But I think the factors you describe play a role in fetal development.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:26 PM FlagI think the overstimulation of the electronics we live around causes a higher incidence of SPD (sensory processing disorder) which is present in many cases of autism.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:45 PM Flagnp: Recent research is pointing to it "occurring" in the 2nd trimester of pregnancy. So, do you think the mothers are being over-exposed or the kids after birth?
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:51 PM FlagProbably both. If the mother is over-exposed during pregnancy, chances are the child is entering into the same environment, and it is speculated that it's a combination of environmental and genetic factors. As to SPD itself, I'm not sure if that would develop in utero or not, just that many children who have SPD also fall on the autism spectrum.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:59 PM Flag
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It is something environmental from our modern living. Autism is virtually absent in Amish communities. This could mean a myriad of things. They have no vaccinations (please don't flame me I am not anti-vax), they don't have electronics, they live in communities that are exposed to less pollutants, they don't drink, etc. It makes me wonder what it is.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:17 PM FlagThere are also an awful lot of people who are clearly on the spectrum and were never diagnosed as such, they are fully functional adults, just weird. Sometimes I wonder about the benefits of labeling people who are just on the spectrum
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:33 PM Flagnp: I do too, actually. I'm not convinced it's always beneficial for kids of normal intelligence whose only symptoms are being socially awkward and having "weird" interests to be labeled as having a lifelong disability. There was an interesting article about them somewhere recently, I forget. But it was a young guy whose parents mis-diagnosed him as having Asperger's as a kid and he's now a basically normal adult who has found friends who share his "weird" interests.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:38 PM Flag
Well, for one thing, they've broadened the criteria for diagnosis. But I do wonder whether there isn't something in the environment that's helping this along, maybe including more opportunities for people with Asperger's to get married and have kids.
[ Reply | More ]04.01.12, 08:34 PM FlagI think everything that deviates in the slightest way from the "norm" has become pathologized. WHat has happened to all the wierd kids, the eccentric kids, the unique perspectives? Everything has a label these days. I think funding is at the root of it. The more you find, the more you get paid.
[ Reply | More ]04.02.12, 05:53 AM Flag
[+] Chickenpox breakout at Appleseeds Playgym in Chelsea. Some idiot sent there kid ther... 47 replies
- a recommendation for older adults to get herpes zoster vaccine, regardless of previous chicken pox exposure, to ward against...t have periodic exposure "boosters" so need a new vaccine themselves or at increased risk for shingles....
- ^^^ Exposure to the virus by vaccine or otherwise makes adult less likely to develop shingles...
- NP OP, are you vaccinated against chickenpox? What about your kids? I would be...
Talk : : March 31, 2012
Chickenpox breakout at Appleseeds Playgym in Chelsea. Some idiot sent there kid there with full-blown chickenpox last week and now they are warning parents that other kids have reported coming down with it a few days later.
47 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.31.12, 06:07 AM Flag ]Not a big deal if your dc are vaccinated. And if not, they might get chickenpox and then have lifetime immunity.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:12 AM Flagnp--There is now a recommendation for older adults to get herpes zoster vaccine, regardless of previous chicken pox exposure, to ward against shingles.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:20 AM Flagnp: shingles is horribly painful. My friend had it and this 6ft 2in man who was a weight lifter was brought to tears with the pain
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:21 AM FlagNnp: my mother has shingles and is on pain medication most of the time. I think I'd like to be exposed to chicken pod now and again to help keep it at bay.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:25 AM Flagppl who have had chicken pox DO get the shingles. When you're exposed to chicken pox you will always have the dead virus in you...the exposure later on when you're older or have a compromised immune system heightens the chances of you developing shingles...that's why you see so many seniors getting it
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:30 AM Flag
This is not a big deal. Kids are exposed to things everywhere. Most likely your kid has been vaccinated. If not, they are bound to be exposed at some point in their life and the earlier the better. If your child actually has an immune problem that makes chicken pox dangerous, call your pediatrician. This was posted yesterday anyway.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:15 AM FlagI don't care if kids are vaccinated , ect. The fact that some parent was selfish enough to take their dc out to a place when they know that the kid is contagious is so annoying. If other parents want their dc to get the pox from your kid that's fine but the selfish move is so freaking annoying
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 06:18 AM Flag-
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If it were measles you'd have a reason to be pissed. Chicken pox is an inconvenience people.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 07:00 AM FlagI disagree. Any time a kid is sicker than a cold, ie flu, pox, etc and they're trotted out in public with other kids, it's selfish. Yes, there are things that are unavoidable, but why purposefully put other kids at risk? You'd really do that?
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 07:08 AM FlagAnytime your child gets avoidably sick, it's more than an inconvenience. It's frustrating. And it could actually be dangerous. Some kids get scarring, some actually can die. And they have increased risk of adulthood shingles. So how is all this just an inconvenience? There's something called the internet which makes it easier to learn factually true information than it used to be.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 12:00 PM Flag
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I teach elementary school and I can't tell you how many times we have strep throat, colds, flu, and anything else cycling endlessly around our building because families don't keep their kids home til they're not contagious anymore. A colleague in her first trimester once missed an entire month of school because we had an outbreak of Fifth's Disease that we could NOT get rid of - she used up every personal and sick day so that she could keep her fetus safe, then had no time left to take off when the baby was born. Not to mention that an entire class of kids had an entire month of school without a teacher. And all because kids kept coming in to school contagious. Thank goodness it was "only" Fifth's Disease and not something life threatening.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 07:15 AM FlagProbably one of those jerks on this board who report sending their kids to school sick because they "have no choice." Maybe "rent stabilized single mom," who justifies by saying that others should have to deal with it because they have 2 parents who can alternate staying home with their kids while she doesn't have that "luxury."
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 10:06 AM FlagOp: I'm pregnant and we are about to travel for a the holidays to visit family we only see once a year
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 10:07 AM FlagNP OP, are you vaccinated against chickenpox? What about your kids? I would be anxious too if I were you but if you've had them and/or vaccinated, you should be okay. It's not ideal, I realize, but you are certainly more protected than if you were never vaccinated.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 10:32 AM Flag
I was the OP on this yesterday. I think the basic points are: (1) idiot parent was selfish, (2) vaccine is only 90% effective, although in the 10% case the disease is milder than otherwise (but still not pleasant), and (3) getting chicken pox actually increases your chances of adulthood shingles.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 11:56 AM FlagSo does getting the vaccine. You guys are really getting all worked up over nothing.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 12:41 PM Flagpeople are getting "all worked up" over how ungodly selfish others are.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 01:14 PM FlagSeriously, get over it. When you take your kid out in public in New York City, you have to expect your kid will be exposed to just about everything.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 01:16 PM FlagI am somewhat new to UB. It's surprising how many completely sweeping, unactionable and useless generalities people take the time to type up. For example, the "post" above: "Seriously, get over it. When you take your kid out in public in New York City, you have to expect your kid will be exposed to just about everything." I actually don't think you could be talking seriously, because the only information content in your post is that it suggests you are trying to project an image of uber-relaxed Mom, who doesn't worry as much as those neurotic NYC Moms who care about a 1/10 chance of chicken pox. Why don't you just say that instead of what you wrote? See, because when I go to a playdate and my toddler shares toys with other kids, I actually do NOT NEED TO EXPECT THAT THE TOYS WILL BE EXPOSED TO EVERYTHING YOU STUPID MORON.
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 03:24 PM Flag
[+] So my nanny tells me that another nanny brought a toddler with chicken pox to Applese... 15 replies
- Some kids may have allergy issues that prevent them getting vaccinated, people may be there with small babiesthat haven't been...a horrible uptick in shingles when these kids hit adulthood. Vaccines wear off and are not nearly as effective as...your own child and cannot be dictated as to vaccinate or not...
- Yes, you are right. Despite the massive success of vaccines - unlike your grandmother you probably don't know...
Talk : : March 30, 2012
So my nanny tells me that another nanny brought a toddler with chicken pox to Appleseeds (Madison Sq Park location) yesterday. Apparently the staff never even noticed, but the place cleared out. Anyone else hear about this? I do think the Appleseeds monitors are pretty useless and pay almost no attention to hygiene or what the kids are doing (toys in their mouths, people not wearing socks, etc). I wonder if the place has been scrubbed down yet . . .
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | MoreAt this point scrubbing down won't affect your dc. Aren't all kids vaccinated now anyway? Well besides the selfish wack jobs that don't vac
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 05:52 PM FlagSome kids may have allergy issues that prevent them getting vaccinated, people may be there with small babiesthat haven't been vaccinated yet accompanying an older sibling etc. not vaccinating for no good reason is selfish and taking them out is even more selfish.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 05:55 PM FlagOr: If those with legitimate allergies, immune problems or young infants were the only ones not vaccinated, it wouldn't be a problem bc of herd immunity. It is the selfish parents who put those children at risk.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 05:58 PM FlagIt should be illegal not to vac - there are laws about neglect & abuse - there should be similar laws to prevent children from unnecessary exposure to these diseases
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:00 PM FlagIt's a free country...you can do what you want with your own child and cannot be dictated as to vaccinate or not...vaccines are poison. Your child is being injected with chemicals that you have no idea what the end results will be. Please educate yourselves and stop being brainwashed by your doctors and pharmacutical companies....it's all a big conspiracy.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:16 PM FlagYes, you are right. Despite the massive success of vaccines - unlike your grandmother you probably don't know anyone or very many people who have had, never mind died or had serious complications of, measles mumps rubella diphtheria polio smallpox and rabies, but that is just coincidence and drug companies are shooting people up with "poison" because that won't make them liable in the future. Righty-o.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:36 PM Flag+1. Stephen Jay Gould once advised people who longed for the good old days to go to a cemetery and look at the tombstones from the days before modern medicine. You will notice something that suggests that it's not actually just a big conspiracy. It's people like you who increase the medical burden on society as whole with your addled thoughts.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:55 PM Flag
It's far from a deadly disease. We all had it. It's really not bad- especially in young children. Why give it a second thought if your children are vaccinated or young and healthy? Honestly - I think we're going to see a horrible uptick in shingles when these kids hit adulthood. Vaccines wear off and are not nearly as effective as immunity from having the virus. It is fairly serious in adults - I had it at 14 and it was pretty bad. Aunt had it in her 50s and REALLY bad... I think you're just trying to stir the pot.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:15 PM FlagYou get shingles because you have had chicken pox in the past, not because your immunity is incomplete. That said, I think people will need boosters.
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:39 PM FlagIf by "stir the pot" you mean start a thread on whether other parents may have heard about this, and whay they think, then the answer is yes, I am indeed stirring the pot. Another phrase you may want to add to your arsenal is "I think you're just trying to write a post." Anyhow, let me bring a toddler with chicken pox and have him crawl all over your dwelling and lick your child's toys. A final thought -where did you do your medical training? Somewhere where people are taught not to give a second thought about exposing their child to a possibly painful outbreak of blisters, possible scarring, and increased risk for shingles later in life?
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 06:51 PM FlagMy kids are vaccinated - as are 99% of the people on here - so why would we give a flying F that a child w/ pox (non-lethal and not all that bad) played in an area where my kids are?
[ Reply | More ]03.30.12, 07:56 PM FlagIt seems like the standard you have for caring about things is whether they are 100% lethal. I suppose you could be trying to project an aura of carefree parenting. Or exaggerating for the sake of emphasis. In any case, people with sick children shouldn't take them to play clubs. It's not considerate, regardless if the disease is non-lethal. And in any case, chicken pox can occassionally be lethal, the vaccine is about 90% effective, and if you get the disease, your odds of shingles later in life is much, much higher. Finally, I would posit that many things that happen to you this week in NYC are much less bad, on an ordinal scale, than having your child get sick with a non-deadly but still rather unpleasant disease: say, getting upstreamed for a cab, having someone spill coffee on you, getting locked out of the moron cave you call home, etc. So, Ms. Buddha, remember that you just don't care about anything that is less bad than getting chicken pox, which should make your entire day to day existence extremely serene :)
[ Reply | More ]03.31.12, 05:37 AM Flag
[+] Can someone help me solve an argument. Isn't it the required that you take your child... 27 replies
- As far as I know, as long as they have the required vaccinations, not true....
- What do you mean "return." But yes, medical vaccination records are required for entry to school....
Talk : : March 29, 2012
Can someone help me solve an argument. Isn't it the required that you take your child to the dentist and Dr or they can not return to school?
27 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.29.12, 02:00 PM Flag ]-
OP: I remember ass a child in the late 80's early 90's that I had to have a dental exam and vac and if my mom did not take us we would get a note saying we can not return until she does so. Do they still do this?
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 02:14 PM FlagI think I'm beginning to understand the argument: You cannot explain things.
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 02:15 PM Flag-
Not in NYC. I take my kids for their physical in early May (they go to ped once a year--don't get sick, so I know the schedule). Dentist twice. Ped fills out forms, dentist doesn't (dentist is near our country home, actually, as I was sick of paying ridiculous prices in the city--haven't paid a penny out of pocket since I started doing this). Ped takes a look in mouth so I guess she might make a comment if there were dental issues.
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 02:17 PM Flag
What do you mean "return." But yes, medical vaccination records are required for entry to school.
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 02:12 PM FlagTrue. But given how easy it is to get an exemption, I think it's a little misleading that schools say are required. People believe kids who go to school have to have vax, and have no idea how many parents get away with not vaccinating. They sign a form, and that's it. I resent them riding off our immunity. If you don't want to vax, fine. You need to live very rurally.
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 02:20 PM Flag
[+] Why does it seem that major allergies--like peanuts, tree nuts--are more prevalent no... 11 replies
- Acetaminophen given before vaccines seems to significantly reduce immune response in studies: raised on farms have almost non-existent allergy rates. I think that shoots down the...
- Here's another: delivered by C-section have more allergies and higher risk of asthma: MUST be vaccines!...
Talk : : March 28, 2012
Why does it seem that major allergies--like peanuts, tree nuts--are more prevalent now than when we were kids? Am I imagining this, or were we just not as aware, or what?
11 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.28.12, 06:45 PM Flag ]No fewer than two of my dc's have been insisting for a while that they have allergies. They go regularly to the ped and nothing. They cough and think they have an allergy. Not to say that there are not real allergies - I know there are, have seen them - but for other kid I think there is some weird stuff there tied up with the special treatment allergic kids get ... signs on classroom doors (nut free) and special tables at lunch.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:49 PM Flag-
One theory is that very young kids aren't exposed enough to soil--real dirt has micro-organisms that help balance the immune system. This is called the hygiene hypothesis. Another theory is that the rise in the use of acetaminophen (Tylenol) when aspirin was deemed unsafe for children has led a rise in allergies and asthma. Here's a story on this: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/08/13/acetaminophen.may.double.asthma.risk/index.html
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:00 PM Flag-
Kids raised on farms have almost non-existent allergy rates. I think that shoots down the pesticide theory, by the way. I'm the only poster who gave links to studies.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:07 PM FlagHere's another: http://www.infection-research.de/perspectives/detail/pressrelease/parasites_and_the_hygiene_hypothesis/
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:10 PM Flag
Acetaminophen given before vaccines seems to significantly reduce immune response in studies: http://blog.healia.com/00403/acetaminophen-after-boosters-may-weaken-infant-immune-systems
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:03 PM Flag
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Children delivered by C-section have more allergies and higher risk of asthma: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080521081918.htm
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:17 PM Flag
[+] is this real, or a snopes thing? all day people have been reposting on facebook about... 4 replies
- Huh? I delayed (well, outright refused Hep B) because there was no need for it. They offer it to everyone because they can't discriminate and just offer it to high risk patients and if vaccinated early will prevent the baby from becoming infected. I hadn't shared any needles or had high risk sex, so refused it....
Talk : : March 28, 2012
is this real, or a snopes thing? all day people have been reposting on facebook about this family in PA that had their newborn taken away from them without a court order because they wanted to delay the newborn Hep B vaccine until mother and baby could be tested. the mother spend her first post-partum night in a car in a walmart parking lot after she was kicked out of the hospital while her baby was under the care of social workers. is this for real? can a baby be removed from a parent immediately due to wanting to delay or not receive a vaccine? i can't find a link to a real news article, just blogs, so i'm suspicious.
4 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.28.12, 05:13 PM Flag ]Huh? I delayed (well, outright refused Hep B) because there was no need for it. They offer it to everyone because they can't discriminate and just offer it to high risk patients and if vaccinated early will prevent the baby from becoming infected. I hadn't shared any needles or had high risk sex, so refused it.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:19 PM FlagHard to say. I did a search and only found references on home schooling/religious sites, blogs and free republic/nutty conservative sites. However, I tend to think that it may be true since the home schooling organization is going to sue the hospital (and is asking for funds to do so). But who knows. I can't find it on pennlive.com
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:55 PM FlagThe dr must have been concerned there was either a hep B risk or a risk they wouldn't be getting adequate medical care for the baby.theped at the hospital told me to just get it at my 1 mo visit, the only reason they do it at birth is because it is safe to give from birth and some babies are at risk so they try to do it to protect those that may not get it otherwise or may be exposed.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:16 PM Flag
[+] I can't believe some moron on this site is actually advocating not vaccinating agains... 83 replies
- Neuroscience mom here: People will choose to delay vaccination because they perceive risk associated with the adjuvants...introduction of food correlates with the population percentage vaccinated? This is obviously another thread entirely, but we...maintains immunity. That is why high rates of vaccination are required to protect an entire population (herd...
- Problem is, there is no anti vaccination poster. The poster was only in support of...
Talk : : March 28, 2012
I can't believe some moron on this site is actually advocating not vaccinating against Polio bc it's not a problem in the US anymore
83 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.28.12, 12:51 PM Flag ]It's amazing. She's probably college educated, too. And so selfish and short-sighted.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 12:54 PM FlagYou are a freak who took me out of context. I was saying I don't see harm in delaying the polio vaccination if someone wants to bc the US hasn't had a case in such a long time. Unless you are planning to travel overseas with DC before the age of 5, there is no rush.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:02 PM Flag^^The last cases of naturally occurring paralytic polio in the United States were in 1979, when an outbreak occurred among the Amish in several Midwestern states. From 1980 through 1999, there were 162 confirmed cases of paralytic polio cases reported. Of the 162 cases, eight cases were acquired outside the United States and imported. The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993. The remaining 154 cases were vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) caused by live oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV).
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:03 PM Flag^^and this would be pulled from the CDC website. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:04 PM Flag
I am not a freak. I read your response. Even if there is a small chance of ONE child getting polio in the US, the severity of the disease warrants vaccination at the schedule recommended by the CDC, which includes the first shot at 2 months. The REASON why there aren't more cases, is because people have been vaccinating!
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:05 PM FlagOK, let me say this ONE MORE TIME. I am not against vaccinating for polio. I do think that vaccinations are important. The point I was trying to make is that if someone really wanted to wait until their child was 5 for WHATEVER FREAKING REASON, they would be fine. It isn't required until the age of 5 by our government (at least for public school admittance).
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:10 PM FlagNP: That's just silly. Isn't Polio transmitted by fecal matter? If a person chooses to delay it a bit, there is no harm. I didn't read the original post, but the responder seems to have a valid opinion - just because it's different than yours, doesn't warrant the ranting and raving. By her response I'm going to guess her kids are fully vaccinated - mostly on schedule.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:10 PM FlagNo, it's an opinion based on someone who is mistakenly benefiting from herd immunity and thinking that because we live in the US we are immune from all these diseases that were rampant just 30 years ago and are still a problem in the rest of the world
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:17 PM Flagnp: Yes, and this assumes the herd never expands, which it is doing constantly in this country.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:23 PM FlagNo, it is an opinion based on the fact that when diseases have been virtually eradicated from a continent, that one does not need to run out as SOON as the child comes into the world and have them immunized to it. If everyone in our country delayed vaccination until 5 we would see no change from what we see now in polio.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 04:33 PM Flagagree. No one really has to comply to vaccination schedule until kindergarten. If the gov was really worried about a pandemic spread by 5 yr olds, they would have the schedule required at an earlier age. It is really recommended by most drs to have immunizations mostly complete by 2. But somehow the gov lets us wait until kindergarten? I see no harm in waiting a few years if it gives a parent extra feelings of comfort by waiting, and it doesn't affect public health.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 04:38 PM FlagThis is completely false. You have to vaccinate on schedule if your DC is in daycare, preschool, camp, etc. The government z
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:50 PM Flag^^^the government doesn't think children are safe from disease before age 5
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:52 PM FlagNo one said children are "safe from disease" before 5. All that was said is that it really isn't required until the 5th year when a child goes to public school. I respect anyone's decision to immunize their kids when they want up to that point. A lot of kids don't go to daycare.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:19 PM Flag
Something being transmitted by fecal matter does not require rolling in a pile of poo. It involves merely touching a subway rail.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:01 PM FlagWhich a 2MO is quite unlikely to do. Just like Hep B- my infant who is home w/ me isn't going to pick it up from anyone, because he's not having sex with anyone, sharing needles, or even in contact w/ anyone's bodily fluids except DH & mine and we've never had Hep B. I'm not suggesting delaying or veering from the normal schedule - but you guys are going a little nuts on this topic. The kid's actually more likely to have a reaction to the shot than they are to come in contact with Poliovirus at all in the US - let alone before 5 (especially if they're not in school or daycare).
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:27 PM Flag
Yet another example of why we need better science education in the US ... it's scary.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:03 PM FlagWhy should people wait to vaccinate? There's no good evidence that says vaccinating early does harm, so why wait? Makes no sense when we're talking about the possible resurgence of something as truly terrible as polio.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:22 PM FlagNeuroscience mom here: People will choose to delay vaccination because they perceive risk associated with the adjuvants and preservatives used in vaccinations, (namely Mercury and Aluminum) which are known neurotoxins. The idea is that these toxins are most damaging early on in life, when brain development is most rapid. A neurotoxin introduced to a very young infant would be considerably more damaging than one introduced to at a later age.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:02 PM FlagThis is why we chose to delay. We believe in vaccinating but we did it on a later schedule. We also researched and found that many vaccines can be done without Mercury for a bit more $.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:06 PM Flag^^by delaying vaccination until a later age, say 5 or 6, they perceive they are able to participate in the benefits of vaccination, with less risk neurologically. Now, the amount of neurotoxin in the form of Mercury is very, very small that is added in the form of Thimerosal, arguably too small to make a big difference, and Thimerosal is being phased out because parents are afraid (IMO, rightfully so). The adjuvants are still present though, and this gives some parents pause.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:07 PM Flag^^my DH and I decided to vaccinate against disease which posed the most life threatening/altering risk first, and we did do some on schedule. But, there were many we chose to delay, or made specific requests for brands that were Thimerosal-free. DS is now caught up at 7. We chose not to vaccinate for yearly influenza, because these tend to still carry thimerosal, and the risk of influenza death for my 7 year old is not high enough to justify the potential downsides to mercury exposure.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:18 PM FlagMD here, and having rotated through a pediatric ICU seeing several otherwise healthy children on ventilators, I would tend to disagree.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:03 PM FlagDidn't say there was no risk, MD, but just that the risk was one we were willing to take. As you know, being an MD and all, there is really no assurance that the flu you are immunized for will be the flu you are exposed to. The vaccination is an "educated guess" and has no guarantee of matching the seasonal strain. Run of the mill Influenza B vaccinations we pass over. If there was an Influenza A threat for the year we would get vaccinated.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:18 PM FlagThis is a medical discussion and my credentials are relevant. Defensive much? Regarding the vaccination, I can only tell you what I have seen in children, and that a colleague - otherwise perfectly healthy - came down with flu and died days later. This is not an acceptable risk to me or my own family. But do what you want. Natural selection and all.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:30 PM Flag
NP- There may be no correlation to Autism, but what about to just overall cognitive function? There is no research on this people, believe me, I have sought it out. Could we be keeping our kids disease free, but dumbing them down or impairing them in the process? Look at the incidence of learning disorders, ADHD and the like. It does make me wonder.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:30 PM FlagJust because there's a name for them now, doesn't mean they didn't exist in such numbers in the past. I'd argue that the parents are more neurotic now.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:04 PM FlagHow about crazy allergies? The incidence of life threatening food allergies follows the immunization compliance population curve.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:37 PM Flag-
The introduction of food correlates with the population percentage vaccinated? This is obviously another thread entirely, but we as a society have been more cautious in the last 10 yrs on food introduction than ever before, and yet severe food allergies are on the uptick.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:25 PM Flag
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^^ know. A lot has changed over the years. In the natural birth circles I lurk in, some people have tried to link routine use of Pitocin to neurological disorders. Do we really want to go down this road? We make the best choices we can based on the available evidence and must stop the crazy conjecturing.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:07 PM Flag
The news (of our cluelessness) is starting to get around. I live in France and my doctor always double checks DC's vaccinations before we go back to the US because she thinks it's a measles free for all there. If you heard her talking about it, you'd think the US was a developing nation.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 01:36 PM FlagThe Europeans with their superiority complex regarding their healthcare system are an entirely different story...
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 02:16 PM FlagI'm not sure it's a superiority complex, I think it's just ... superiority (in this instance at least). I have never met anyone here in France who doesn't vaccinate. Not vaccinating isn't viewed as "independent thinking" here as I guess it sometimes is in the US. It's viewed as ignorant.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 02:24 PM Flag
I don't believe in any of these vaccinations.....polio especially...you're all stupid brainwashed assholes.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 05:43 PM FlagI work in the ED, and I'm 8 weeks pregnant. So selfish to have a family bring in a child who has a temp of 103 and is unvaccinated. Yeah, I'm sorry about your kid, and we'll do whatever we can. But deep down inside: what the HELL? Exposing my fetus to whatever the hell you brought in. Selfish and obnoxious.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:34 PM FlagYour fetus is protected by your immunity. If you have been vaccinated, you and your baby are FINE.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:50 PM FlagOnce again, a lack of science education shines through. Vaccinations are not perfect; not everyone develops or maintains immunity. That is why high rates of vaccination are required to protect an entire population (herd immunity) - to basically cover off the failure rate. Now I'm sure this particular person's baby will be okay, but you demonstrated you don't get how vaccines really work. They do protect individuals, but they also have to operate at the group level for maximum effectiveness.
[ Reply | More ]03.29.12, 07:20 AM Flag
[+] Have any of you heard of or experienced a very bad reaction from a vaccine? I am a mo... 15 replies
- Nope. People sometime attribute unrelated medical problems to vaccines if they are close in time, though. Kind of like...we know what we know about hepatitis because a tainted vaccine was given to dock workers in Germany....
- have strange reactions. Sometimes there's a bad batch of vaccine released. It's very rare and should not be...
- vaccines were different back when we were children. They are...
Talk : : March 28, 2012
Have any of you heard of or experienced a very bad reaction from a vaccine? I am a mom of a newborn (I posted below) and curious about this. I know statistically some of this stuff happens, but I personally don't know of any reaction worse than a high fever.
15 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.28.12, 09:38 AM Flag ]-
Yes. My BIL almost died from the second MMR shot (no reaction to the first- same shot). Sometimes people have strange reactions. Sometimes there's a bad batch of vaccine released. It's very rare and should not be a deterrent from vaccinating your child - but it does happen.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:13 AM Flag-
[+] Has anyone separated out their vaccines? We will fully vaccinate DB, but I already sa... 55 replies
- a big deal). Compliance (IMO) is what those multiple vaccines are about. I'd make several appointments and keep them...is the highest aluminum, fwiw. Spaced out other kids' vaccines too. Shouldnt be a nig deal....
- outside the country. 156 were aquired FROM THE ORAL VACCINE ITSELF. None were acquired through some world traveler bringing..., you mean I should google "things wackos say about vaccines" and then make medical decisions for my child based...
Talk : : March 28, 2012
Has anyone separated out their vaccines? We will fully vaccinate DB, but I already said no to the HepB vaccine in the hospital. Now going to 2 month appointment and not sure if we should space some of these out or not. There is a new vaccine called Pentacel which is only a few years old, and combines 5 vaccines in one (DTAP, Hib, IPV). Those used to be separate vaccines, so I worry about all of these at once. What did you do?
55 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.28.12, 07:37 AM Flag ]Daily environmental contact can contain thousands of different germs, to which your dc's immune system will respond. I don't think "spacing them out" does anything except increase the number of needle sticks and copays.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 07:39 AM FlagWhat are you talking about? DB will not come into contact with polio, meningitis or with Hepatitis on daily basis in a normal lifestyle. That's why she needs to be vaccinated. The question is whether to do all at once.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 07:49 AM FlagNP Agreed w/OR. There is no reason to space out the vaccines except to make your child suffer multiple visits. It's insane that this is even being debated. I imagine speaking with your ped instead of reading advice from Jenny McCarthy will help you make a more informed decision. Good luck.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:09 AM Flag
Doctors worry about parents that skip appointments (either by accident or just stop worrying and think it's not a big deal). Compliance (IMO) is what those multiple vaccines are about. I'd make several appointments and keep them if your doctor agrees to do it that way.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 07:42 AM FlagWe spaced ours. It isn't uncommon. Pediatricians aren't super excited about it but my son is now 5 with every thing done except one more round of Hep A. Does an infant really need a polio shot? Does it really matter if he gets it at 5 yrs instead of 5 mos? No.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:02 AM Flagactually, yes. wild type polio is endemic in Pakistan and Nigeria. There are numerous immigrants and visitors in the usa (and NYC) from those countries. Current polio-virus is inactivated virus, not live virus.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 09:37 AM Flag-
You guys are fruit cakes. There have been 164 cases of polio in the US since 1993. 8 were acquired outside the country. 156 were aquired FROM THE ORAL VACCINE ITSELF. None were acquired through some world traveler bringing it to the US. You know nothing about this, sorry.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:11 AM FlagYOu are a complete moron. The live virus vaccine is no longer used. Up to about 72% of susceptible persons infected with polio have no symptoms. However, infected persons without symptoms can still spread the virus and cause others to develop polio. **This is from the same place where you sourced your data, you just left out data that didn't fit your point**
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:15 AM FlagI'm not sure what you think I got wrong. The oral virus is no longer used, correct, but tell me of ONE case in the US were someone living here contracted paralytic polio in the last 20 yrs, who didn't travel to some random place to catch it. It is necessary to get polio vaccine eventually get this vaccine but there is no rush for non-globe trotting infants.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:21 AM FlagWell, I live in NYC. So lots of people travel from the 3rd world to HERE. I am not going to take the risk. I am sure you think the measles outbreak at the super bowl was just a fluke too?
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 11:08 AM FlagI'm just saying it hasnt happened in recent history, and really isn't likely to. Keep your child inside so he doesn't get hit by lightening too, while you are at it. I'm not against vac but i respect the right to space- and I don't play around w/ MMR vac bc there is actually some risk w that one.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 11:38 AM Flag
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we spaced them out over 2.5 years. the only requirement is that db has shots before starting school (unless you qualify for an exemption based on the state where you live). We read Dr. Sears vaccine book and used his alternate schedule. dcs didn't have mmr until they were 2yo. As long as you keep up with all the baby wellness appts which are pretty frequent before age 2, you won't have a problem getting all the shots in on an extended schedule.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:03 AM FlagYou stop being a know-it-all PITA and give your kid his freaking shots.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:04 AM Flag-
I spaced the out for dc1 and did the combined vaccine for dc2. I think the combined one is better because they don't get stuck so many times and you don't have to go to the office so often. I had no issues with allergic reactions. There are some articles about the fact that vaccines are safer now than 50 yrs ago because they actually use fewer germs for it than back then and autism is still more prevalent now. You should read them. I think there was one in time magazine a few yrs ago.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:09 AM FlagOP here.. thanks, I have read the research that does say the vaccines are cleaner now. I definitely agree there of course! They don't cause autism. My only concern on the Pentacel is that it's a new delivery system, combining lots of shots that used to be given separately.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:15 AM Flagnp: my concern isn't autism. just that there are som amny toxic things in vaccines that we are injecting into our tiny babies. there appears to be zero harm in spreading them out so as not to expose dbs to huge amounts of aluminum, etc. at one visit, when it is not necessary. this isn't a debate about vaccinating or not, just about the schedule that you are comfortable with.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:20 AM Flag
We also skipped/put off the hep b. the dr sears schedule is more reasonable. 2 shots max each visit, etc. Get the sears vaccine book with the green cover. Not just for the schedule, but so you can read a clear summary of each shot db is going to get. I was overwhelmed with info online, but I liked this book because it was easy to understand. The wknd before each dr appt I would read about the scheduled vaccine. Took 10 minutes.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 08:26 AM FlagI know this is anecdotal but hear me out. SIL claims her son (nephew) contracted autism after MMR @ 18 mos. there is a lot of evidence to support this (even my own personal observation). My son, not autistic, but has SPD, has his shots spaced out and delayed. Every time he gets a shot we have a setback in OT for DC, noticeable by his therapists. Lasts about 3 mos.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:28 AM Flag^^^i know there are oodles of studies to "prove" me wrong, but it is hard to deny this occurrence in our experience. My DH didn't even believe until the last shot. DS started having issues he had overcome reimerge and DH asked if he had any shots lately. Yes, 2 weeks ago, and hadn't had any in 6 mos - with progress attatched to that point in time.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:32 AM Flag-
The problem is that if your child is young, he is continually getting shots. So each time he has a regression, it's bound to be near the time he got a shot. Statistically, it's probably just chance. Similarly, when the symptoms of ASD emerge, it just happens to be around the time that kids are getting lots of shots. My child has autism, by the way, but I'm a scientist who has been keeping up on all the epi studies. This has been studied ad nauseum at this point.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 10:42 AM Flagx2. People mistakenly say it's the vaccines, but they just happen to get them at the same time as these types of diagnoses pop up.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 11:10 AM FlagThis. How many times does it have to be explained? It would be great if we could trace the origin to autism to a vaccine but it's been tried exhaustively and it's. not. the. case.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 11:15 AM FlagIt was explained over and over that asbestos was safe until the 1970s. The US government stood by proclaiming its safety. It was safe until it was proclaimed a carcinogen.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 12:43 PM FlagHow about this scenario: the government cooks the data. Really. What if there is a percentage of children who are sensitive to the effects of vaccinations, but the number is so small it is considered collateral damage. What if the government is protecting itself from bankrupting lawsuits that would come if any connection was had? If you could rid the country of society threatening disease, at the cost of neuro damage of a few, would you do it? Ever wonder who sponsors these studies?
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 12:53 PM FlagNP: It's not "the government" doing these studies. For the most part, it's academics. I'm an epidemiologist, and I promise you, we don't cook the data. Our work is reviewed by other academics. Many of us are parents, and we got into this field because we care deeply about people's health. Study after study, performed by numerous different research groups from many different countries, have found the same thing. Vaccines are not linked to autism.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 04:56 PM Flag
agree that that could be the case, but I will say, waiting for 6 mos, and then getting his last shot was kind of the tipping point for me. No shots for 6 mos, he was showing marked improvement with teachers, therapists, etc. THen shot, and within two weeks had regressed back to the slew of issues we were working through. I really would like to believe that it is just a coincidence, bc it would make me feel less guilt for giving him the shots, but it just seems a bit too connected.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 12:48 PM Flag
Did you know the stork population rose with the human one in the UK during the industrial revolution? It's to bring all the babies! No, actually it so happens they like heated chimneys. The point being - even IF there is a visible correlation it doesn't mean that's the cause. Sorry but there has been SO MUCH research money spent on this because of that one lying guy in the UK and parents are still freaky about it. It's very frustrating.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 12:59 PM Flag
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some jerk fudged his research so the MMR looked suspicious. but now that he's proven to be a fraud, all is fine and everyone should just vaccinate as recommended. i got my kid exposed to chicken pox because i thought the vaccine might not be permanent but recent research seems to suggest, that vaccine, too is effective and safe. so just vaccinate and be happy!
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 11:41 AM FlagWhy not just get DTaP, Hib, and IPV at the same visit but with the three individual needles, if you are concerned about Pentacel specifically? Fwiw, if it's a few years old that means millions of children have had it and are completely fine.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 03:44 PM Flag
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[+] What is the most obnoxious thing you have seen a parent do this year? 27 replies
- refuse vaccines...
Talk : : March 27, 2012
What is the most obnoxious thing you have seen a parent do this year?
27 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.27.12, 06:56 PM Flag ]The other day I saw a woman's boyfriend be really rough with her little boy. He grabbed him and shoved him out of the way. The mom went over and took the boy's hand, but then went back to nuzzling the asshole boyfriend. I wanted to shake her. I could tell he wasn't the dad b/c they were different races.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:01 PM FlagAre you for real? He could still be the dad. The man sounds like a jerk, but you lose credibility when you sound so ignorant.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:07 PM Flag"They weren't the same race" is usually code word for person of color with the poor victimized adult or child always being white. Simply another version of the usual "I saw your bad nanny" stories posted here. In those someone always points out the OP could not possibly know the woman in question wasn't the mother and the OP always responds, "They weren't the same race."
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:11 PM FlagNP - well that is a pretty good way to tell they're not related.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:17 PM FlagYou don't get out much. Mixed race couples produce children that may appear to be a different race from one of the parents. E.g., a blond white woman who is mom to an Indian looking olive skinned blac haired girl, with her indian
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:20 PM FlagYeah. I don't see a dark-skinned African-American woman producing a pale, white child. And that's what we're taking about here. That's not racist, it's just fact.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:23 PM FlagI am brown skin AA woman w pale white child. People think I am the nanny all the time. DC has blonde hair blue eyes. It happens.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:31 PM FlagBiologically/genetically it is not fact. People just pretend to forgot about 400 years of American history. A person's skin color gives no real indication of the genetic potential that they harbor inside, a potential comprised of all of the DNA provided by their ancestors. This is why there are some biracial people with who are very dark complected with kinky hair and stereotypical AA phenotypes. This also explains why two AA parents can produce a light complected child. 2.) There is so many various contributing factors in the AA genetic pool that really nothing can be taken for granted. There are ebony people with green eyes who come from two AA parents who have brown eyes. Red hair can crop up. Blonde hair as well. And the shades of skin can be infinite.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:39 PM Flag
OP: OK, fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that he was an overbearing ass to the child.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:21 PM Flag
Seriously? We can't admit that sometimes you can discern racial differences??
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:32 PM Flag
[+] I want to do a delayed vaccine schedule but don't know how/who to follow? Anyone BTD... 17 replies
- you know better just because you worked peripherally in vaccine marketing. Such hubris....
- upset b/c there is something called herd immunity. Vaccines are not 100% effective (I believe, for instance,...w/the above poster that ppl who do their own vaccination schedules are incredibly annoying. Good news, though, my ped...handle. The Ped I am considering does do delayed vaccinations so wanted to understand what the different schedules...
Talk : : March 26, 2012
I want to do a delayed vaccine schedule but don't know how/who to follow? Anyone BTDT? Any help navigating would be appreciated!
17 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.26.12, 08:41 AM Flag ]Do you mean delayed or more attenuated, so that you see the doctor more frequently instead of having three or more vaccines at a time?
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 08:47 AM FlagBoth. I definitely do not want my DC to receive the Hep B vaccine at birth (and I question the need for it at all but will discuss with doc). Having worked peripherally in vaccine marketing I know how some of the vaccines got on schedule and the reasons are more financial than public health. I also do not want more than one vaccine at a time given and wish to delay as long as is medically responisble. Allthat said - I do not know how or which schedule to follow. And asking the question seems to make people think you are crazy. Looking for BTDT advice.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 08:59 AM Flagbecause you kind of are crazy to think you know better just because you worked peripherally in vaccine marketing. Such hubris.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 09:04 AM FlagI am pro vaccine-one of the greatest advancements in the history of the world. As an RN I would not want my kids getting pneumonia, hepatitis or any communicable diseases because the "germs" are getting stronger and the antibiotics are not as effective. I think you need to do YOUR OWN RESEARCH as my children are properly protected and I don't have to worry about them getting those diseases-which can be deadly. Have a great day. BTW-do you have a pediatrician-if not you may have to search for one that doesn't want their patients who are on the road to vaccination to have to share a waiting room with those who want to pick and choose because of their "superior" knowledge.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 09:22 AM FlagOP: Not sure where the venom is coming from. If your kid is protected why be so angry at my decision. I have done my research and I know that some vaccines are not absolutely necessary - like the Hep B at birth. I want to find alternate schedules so I can have a discussion with my doctor. If this is your bedside manner as an RN then you must suck at your job.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 10:42 AM FlagNP She is upset b/c there is something called herd immunity. Vaccines are not 100% effective (I believe, for instance, whooping cough vaccine only effective for about 80% of people who get it) so we rely ALSO on each other to prevent outbreaks by all getting vaccinated. I would agree w/the above poster that ppl who do their own vaccination schedules are incredibly annoying. Good news, though, my ped practice no longer takes unvax patients!
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 10:59 AM FlagOP: As stated before. I will have a discussion with my doctor. Get his her advice regarding the best way to handle. The Ped I am considering does do delayed vaccinations so wanted to understand what the different schedules possibilities are and so some reasearch. Glad you found a doc that works for you. Again - it's amazing how nasty people are. If you have nothing to contribute to my original ask then don't respond.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 11:37 AM Flag
Research the actual stuff you're vaccinating against and lay out your own schedule. Honestly it just means more dr. visits and your DB being less protected + more shots/ stress for DB. We didn't do Hep B at birth because that's just absurd - the schedule is for the general population, use your brain and do some real research.. The schedule is perfectly safe and there are not many good reasons to delay most things.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 09:20 AM FlagI am doing delayed Vax. I follow Dr. Sears' schedule but not to the letter. I trust my ped and take his advice. He is on board with delayed vax. My db did not have Hep B in the hospital either. Any specific questions I can answer for you? I will be here for a few mins.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 09:23 AM FlagFor example, my ped stressed the HIB vax bc of the season but when it came time to giving it to my DB, she was sick so he said, let's skip the vax today and we will catch up next appt. By the next appt, DB was already 10 mo so he said she is really past the season/age to be seriously affected by HIB, so there is no need for it now. I trust that he is not influenced by the vaccine industry but he does have an interest in public health and well being. His first questions when i said delayed vax were,'are you going to breastfeed, and is the baby going to be in daycare?"
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 09:30 AM FlagI am going to breastfeed and my child will go to day care. So want to make sure I meet the state requirement before sending her but also wnat to make sure her system is not overloaded.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 10:43 AM FlagHer system won't be overloaded following the normal schedule. She's exposed to thousands of germs every minute of every day. You need to follow the regular schedule to have her in daycare so you can delay a few of the 2 month shots, but you need to catch up - so if she's going to daycare at 3 or 4 months you don't have many options because many of the shots need 30 days between shots.
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 10:58 AM FlagOR: If I were sending my db to daycare, I would have probably done most baby vax on time. by baby vax i mean the ones that protect against the diseases that mostly effect babies ie; pneumococcal, HIB, DPT, Rotovirus, etc. You can wait on things like MMR and polio as they are not currently circulating, but i would DEF get DPT and pneumo at the very least. GL
[ Reply | More ]03.26.12, 05:14 PM Flag
We did MUCH slower version of Dr. Sears recommended schedule & even skipped a few too. My mom is a ex-RN and asked her advice as well as read like crazy and figured it out myself. I wouldn't ask your ped; they became dr's for a reason-because the believe in Western Medicine.
[ Reply | More ]03.28.12, 06:55 AM Flag
[+] my pet peeve of day: idiots who say "i don't trust the pharmaceutical companies. FDA... 7 replies
- fittest. you believe the FDA is out to get you? then die of cancer, heart disease, or whatever else you refuse to treat, the world will be better off without more tree hugging idiots. my pet peeve is the people who refuse to vaccinate their kids....
Talk : : March 22, 2012
my pet peeve of day: idiots who say "i don't trust the pharmaceutical companies. FDA takes money from companies! i am very careful about what drugs i take and only choose ones that have stood the test of time." ok, idiot, just rely on prayer. god doesn't contribute to FDA and he doesn't care about the bottom line and it's totally side effect free, er, except it might kill you if you're not careful.
7 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.22.12, 02:47 PM Flag ]As a general rule, if an industry runs ads on TV talking about how wonderful they are, they're up to no good.
[ Reply | More ]03.22.12, 02:50 PM Flagyou know why its NOT my pet peeve? because I just look at it as survival of the fittest. you believe the FDA is out to get you? then die of cancer, heart disease, or whatever else you refuse to treat, the world will be better off without more tree hugging idiots. my pet peeve is the people who refuse to vaccinate their kids.
[ Reply | More ]03.22.12, 02:51 PM Flagfunny, spoke to an attorney today about a class action lawsuit against a drug that killed my friend.
[ Reply | More ]03.22.12, 02:54 PM Flag-
[+] What is the biggest stressor in your life right now? 56 replies
- Ugh. I'm sorry. I'm so happy that vaccine exists now and my dd won't hopefully have to have this worry....
- that vaccine only covers some of the strains. it's a myth that it blocks all of them...
Talk : : March 21, 2012
What is the biggest stressor in your life right now?
56 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.21.12, 08:06 PM Flag ]-
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I know, but all the guys I meet just want to use me for sex. None of them are interested in being a boyfriend, or at least not my boyfriend. And I don't sleep around. I'm cute, but not hot. Would probably rate between a 4-7 depending on who you ask. I'm a good cook, well rounded, smart...idk? Any tips appreciated!
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:24 PM FlagTeacher poster - I'm not as young as I used to be, though you're right, I still have time. I'm happy in a relationship, I just hate the beginning stages of dating, but I don't really have a choice!
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:42 PM FlagYou could try Grouper too. Its kind of fun! You won't find someone sitting at home. I find online dating abysmal, so I just try to get out and do things I enjoy as often as possible.
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:49 PM Flag-
It's a "social club". You register. They find a match, a guy. They give you a place and a time. You bring two girlfriends, he brings two guys. six people gets drinks. I've met some cool people that way. And my roommate's ex boyfriend! It's $20 per person and includes your first drink...some of my friends think it is stupid...but online dating is getting unreal. Last online date, the guy text to confirm 4 minutes after date....then asked me to come over. He was too tired to go out. Forget that...NEXT!
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:59 PM Flag
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my 4 yr old is getting hit every day by another kid at preschool. coming home with marks...
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:10 PM Flagaha...and he would not be returning to school the next day but I would be going down there and going straight ethnic on the school admin.
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:13 PM Flag-
Let's just say, that day I'd probably fulfill a stereotype or two, but I would be heard. Ahem...Tell them where to pick it up and where to lay it down. In the city, you guys seem to let your preschools get away with murder. That right there is inappropriate supervision coupled with improper handling of the classroom by the teachers involved. Why is the other child still allowed to come to school? What is up with the other parents? C'mon mom, this is your baby. You are the she-wolf, protect your pup. There is nothing wrong with standing up for your kid.
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:26 PM Flag
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[+] What are some good/popular conspiracy theories? 37 replies
- vaccines cause autism...
Talk : : March 20, 2012
What are some good/popular conspiracy theories?
37 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.20.12, 08:13 PM Flag ]-
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but Palin's birth story is pretty unbelievable. She is 9 months pregnant and her water breaks with db #5. She is in another state, and instead of going to the hospital she gets on a plane for a 3 or 4 hour plane ride back to Alaska. Then, instead of going to the nearest major hospital, she again travels to get to her small, local one. I don't believe Bristol is Trig's mother, but Palin obviously is telling a ridiculous story. Perhaps she just wanted to make it more dramatic, but who does that?
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 10:09 PM FlagNot to mention that she went into labor at the beginning of a speech that was being made at a political conference, waited to leave UNTIL the speech was over, boarded a plane where no one had any idea she was in labor or far enough along that flying might not be wise, in labor with a premature baby who is known to have Downs Syndrome, making it a high risk pregnancy.
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 03:17 PM Flag
Andrew Breitbart was mudered because he had damning tapes of Obama in college to be released March 1st, 2012.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 09:41 PM FlagDid you see those tapes? He was hugging a Harvard Law Professor! And that law professor wrote some relatively radical things (well, by law professor standards, anyway). Oh my goodness those tapes prove, just absolutely without a doubt, that Obama is a Commie spy.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 09:54 PM Flag
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Nothing new to add, but I believe most of the ones already listed!
[ Reply | More ]03.21.12, 08:12 AM Flag
[+] Dr. Marie Sanford or Dr. Carol Gervais? Trying to decide between these two pediatrici... 2 replies
Talk : : March 20, 2012
[+] Travel help? DB is 7 months old, DH and I love to travel. Thinking of going to Centra... 21 replies
- Do you have all the vaccines for tropical diseases?...
Talk : : March 19, 2012
Travel help? DB is 7 months old, DH and I love to travel. Thinking of going to Central America but not a full resort that is removed from all the local stuff, say Guatemala/El Salvador/Nicaragua rather than a 4 Seasons resort in Costa Rica. Anything i should be worried about? DB has all his shots. (posted a while back but got little help). He is EBF but we're just starting cereal
21 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.19.12, 11:28 AM Flag ]Well, people in those countries have babies every day, and many of them survive infancy just fine. But you aren't going to get a lot of accommodating help in those countries at hotels or with traveling around, so just be very prepared for any scenario.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:31 AM FlagI'd wait a bit. If he's not crawling yet, he will be soon. I'm not a germphobe but would rather be in a low income country with a walker rather than a crawler.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:32 AM FlagOP here. Thanks, he isn't crawling yet which is why I think *now* is the time. to you and OR above, what am I missing?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:34 AM FlagBy the time you go, he'll need to be solid food. How will you ensure this is safe?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:36 AM FlagCan't I buy jarred food down there? say Guatemala? take a couple of days' worth in my suitcase just in case, and go to the supermarket when I land? (OP)
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:37 AM FlagOf course you can buy jarred food there! It's all nestle and other multinational brands. But let the little guy try all the fruit down there. They have like 10 kinds of banana and 15 kinds of melon and fruit we don't have names for. Awesome. Just wash it well or take the skin off if there is skin, like you woukd anywhere.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:49 AM Flag
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my family lives in Guatemala and has babies. There's no danger other than Montezuma's revenge. Drink bottled water and make sure db's cereal is mixed with bottled water. I was there for a month recently and ate food from the supermarket and restaurants and had no problem.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:34 AM Flag^^^Guatemala city is nice, but a little dirty and can be dangerous. But it was planned using Paris as an example, and they even have a small Eifel Tower. Antigua is beautiful and Panajachel is amazing. I prefer the Pacific coast beaches.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:38 AM FlagOP here. thanks! I am actually more worried about DH and I getting sick from the water than the baby... but just trying to see if we are just dumb first time parents and if there is something serious I am missing
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:40 AM FlagI actually did get sick, but it happened because I was stupid. My cousins asked me if I wanted Mexican food, and I said yes. When we pulled into the parking lot and I saw the food cart I should have just not eaten anything, but I did and man, did I pay for those tacos. If you go, you have to eat at a place called Donde Mikel. Best meat outside of Argentina. Any hotel will know how to get there. I would recommend going to any market and buying lots of stuff. The indigenous people sell handicrafts and it's all beautiful and cheap. And eat the mango with salt, cayanne, lime juice and pepitorio (ground sunflower seeds). And try every fruit you can, you won't be sorry.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 11:46 AM Flag
[+] Is Dr. mom on? Can you really get sick from eating raw cookie dough? Was making cooki... 37 replies
- The risk of each egg being contaminated is small and getting smaller (they are vaccinating chickens) Also, Salmonella isnt ecoli. If you are otherwise healthy it is really diarrhea plus minus fever. Doesnt require antibiotics, rarely requires hospitalization. I love runny eggs and eat them all the time....
Talk : : March 18, 2012
Is Dr. mom on? Can you really get sick from eating raw cookie dough? Was making cookies yesterday with my DCs and my niece and nephew. kids wanted to eat the dough. I said "sure" and then my SIL screamed like a banshee about how they could get salmonella and "oh oh No no no". She looked and sounded ridiculous. Kids range in age from 5 to 13.
37 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.18.12, 05:37 AM Flag ]Not a Dr but raw eggs can have salmonella. On the others hand who wants to raise a kid who's never eaten raw cookie dough.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 05:39 AM FlagMD mom. yes you can get sick. but you can also get sick from drinking water. or from having a sandwich at mcdonalds. Id avoid that more than cookie dough. and id never go to colorado and eat those cantaloupes. your SIL needs to chill out.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 06:08 AM Flag-
you need to chill out. So your SIL cares about her kids' health. She needs to chill, but you need to be a bit more respectful. Yes, you CAN get sick from eating raw cookie dough. The odds are slim, but you're pretty ridiculous yourself if you were unaware that raw eggs can make you sick. The numbers of cases have gone way up since we were kids, too. FDA says nearly 150,000 people get sick from raw eggs each year, so SIL isn't crazy to be concerned (although screaming about it is overkill, too -- a simple "no" would do the trick.).
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:29 AM Flag
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You could get sick and I actually don't eat raw cookie dough for that reason but I am super neurotic.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 06:55 AM Flag-
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we eat it all the time with my dc's. I just make sure the eggs have not expired.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 07:08 AM FlagYes - you can. There recently were a rash of contaminations in Toll House cookie dough and people were getting sick (don't remember if there were any deaths, but they had to recall it twice). It is rare, but it does happen. Generally, we avoid it, but I wouldn't go nuts about it.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 07:09 AM FlagRight, but if you're making your own and using farm fresh eggs there's really very little threat.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 07:34 AM Flag-
NP: geez, there are some idiots out there. The "farm fresh" thing is presumably not an attempt to be "superior", but rather acknowledgement of the fact that the massive commercial industrial eggs are FAR more likely to have salmonella problems. If you want to reduce your risk of getting salmonella (which you don't want -- I had it as a kid, and it was AWFUL) and still want to eat raw eggs, you pick your eggs more carefully.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:24 AM Flagno, in this case she was being totally superior. Because most of us grew up eating cookie dough made with unorganic factory eggs from the local Walbaums and most people did not get sick. And sometimes you do everything right and still get salmonella. A bf of mine got salmonella from an eggplant from his friend's farm. Shit, literally, happens.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:35 AM FlagMost of us grew up when the salmonella numbers were a lot lower. There's been big changes in the egg industry since we were kids.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 09:10 AM Flagnp. According to the FDA, salmonella was a lot more common in the '70s than it is now.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 12:38 PM FlagThe CDC claims that salmonella outbreaks went up dramatically starting in the 80s, and say that it's a different type than in the '70s -- then it was because of fecal material on the exterior of the egg, but later it was because the bacterium is inside the egg itself. They do a better job of cleaning the outsides of the eggs now, however. I've seen the statistic that one in 20,000 eggs is contaminated (with some studies showing the odds much higher at the tightly-packed conventional industrial farms, much lower at places where the hens aren't so closely packed) -- obviously a small number, but the OP is wrong if she thinks there's no chance of getting sick from raw eggs, and if buying eggs that don't come from caged chickens, why not reduce the odds a bit more?
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:38 PM Flag
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The risk of each egg being contaminated is small and getting smaller (they are vaccinating chickens) Also, Salmonella isnt ecoli. If you are otherwise healthy it is really diarrhea plus minus fever. Doesnt require antibiotics, rarely requires hospitalization. I love runny eggs and eat them all the time.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 07:34 AM FlagIt's vaguely possible. Assuming you are healthy and do not have a compromised immune system, you're fine. SIL is over reacting, but with her kids that's her call. Don't hold it against her, but don't stop letting your own kids easy the occasional cookie dough, either.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:00 AM FlagMicrobiology mom. Yes, you can definitely get sick from raw cookie dough--eggs sometimes carry salmonella. That said, I still do it. It's so good I can't help it! You could try using pasteurized eggs. I don't do it, but then you would eliminate the chance of getting salmonella and could still enjoy the cookie dough!
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:38 AM Flagthey're fine. it's commercial raw stuff you have to avoid. it's the sitting around that does it. if you keep your egg refrigerated then mix and eat raw simultaneously, no prob. at restaurants, they'll break some eggs, not wash the bowl or just rinse it then chop raw scallions in it then serve it on baked potatoe. that's how they get you. it's not the raw part so much as raw-sat-around-got-mixed-with-something-else-then-served.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 02:29 PM Flagno, it's the salmonella that is in the raw eggs (although the other stuff and sitting around can obviously get you sick, too). In the commercial products and in kitchens they're more likely to mix a bunch of different eggs, though, so through sheer exposure to far more eggs (as just one bad egg can contaminate the batch) your odds of encountering a bad egg go up compared to if you're just using one or two at home.
[ Reply | More ]03.18.12, 08:42 PM Flag
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