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[+] Our faith is under attack by this administration. Through Obamacare they are mandatin... 65 replies
- all religions should be concerned - what about San fran trying to make circumcision illegal. It is a slippery slope to not have separateion of Church and State. For goodness sakem that is one of the primary tenets this country was founded on....
Talk : : March 27, 2012
Our faith is under attack by this administration. Through Obamacare they are mandating that Catholic schools, hospitals and other institutions provide subsidized contraception, sterilization, and coverage for abortion-inducing drugs for their employees—all of which violate their belief system. It’s time for people of faith to unite, stand with God and defend our religious freedom"
65 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.27.12, 07:14 AM Flag ]-
I read a gut-wrenching article today about Catholic Charities and other social worker forcing single women to give up their babies for adoption, sometimes drugging, sometimes shaming. Seems like for every good deed, someone is doing a dozen bad, in the name of God.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:30 AM Flag
and the molestation & rape of young children might have to cease, too. eff off.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:31 AM FlagSpeak for yourself. My faith isn't under attack since I believe in birth control and choice
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:33 AM Flag-
Newsflash: there are plenty of non-Catholics working at those institutions. You can't discriminate against them. And you might want to sit down for this one, OP: there are lots of practicing Catholics using contraception.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:34 AM Flagyes, but you have the choice not to work there is having free birth control is that important to you. It is akin to saying that Orthodox Jews must serve cheeseburgers in their institutions becasue many non-Orthodx work there and even some Orthodox cheat and eat them. It is against your religion and you shuld not be forced to do something that you truly beleive to be against god - whichever god you worship. I can not understand how people can not se this pt. of view. I get that people hate the Catholic Church but it is bigger than that - is is about religious freedom.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:14 AM FlagNo, you don't understand what religious freedom is. If you'd like some reading suggestions, I'm sure we could help you out.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:18 AM Flagno, you don't the Constitution of the United States: The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The free exercise of the Church is that they do not support contraception so forcing them to do so is illegal. Match, Set!
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:26 AM Flag
Why are your beliefs the only ones worthy of defending? The law does not require anyone to have an abortion. It does not require anyone to use contraceptives, be sterilized, etc. What it says is if you want to participate in the US society, you can't impose your beliefs on others. Would you suggest that Muslims are under attack because they have to support Food Assistance programs which pay for pork? Or Jews are under attack because food stamps will pay for bread during Passover?
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:36 AM Flag-
No one's attacking your faith, they're saying that you can't impose it on anyone else. Find a better sound bite.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:38 AM Flagbut the reverse is the gov. is forcing their non faith on a Church! How can people really not see this? I am totally serious - I do nto get how people can not understand the Church's position.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:20 AM Flagnp: We get the position. We disagree with it. If your church did nothing but churching, nobody would say boo. Your church is buying hospitals. It is contracting with Medicare and Medicaid. It is using the courts and all manners of community resources. If you want to participate in the community at large, you have to play by the rules of the community at large.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:24 AM Flagthis probably the most intelligent response i have seen - thanks. At least this is a fair opinion and not the ignorant, well they molest kids. BYW - to those who throw that out - so does every group, religious and non-religious. It is a hideous thing and nothing to do with the healthcare battle at hand. Just open a paper and see all the teachers, priests, rabbis, social workers, coaches etc.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:29 AM Flag
What about the individual's belief system? If I want to use contraceptives, it isn't anyone's business but my own.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:39 AM Flag^^the problem of putting an employer in there between an employee and their health care provider is new and strange and does not make sense. Mormons don't drink, does that mean that Mormon employers will get to opt out of providing benefits to alcoholics? Once you add a third party in a doctors office things get weird.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:48 AM FlagWhy not? You make the choice to work for a Mormon employer. No one forced you to; they should have the protection to not have to provide coverage to you for this.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 09:00 AM FlagUnder your logic, if a company doesn't want to provide health insurance benefits at all, they simply have to put a Christian Scientist on the board. All you have to do is pray hard enough and your cancer will go away. We do not (yet) live in theocracy and for better or worse, health insurance in this country is tied to employment. Since that is the current system, everyone has to compromise. You don't get to tell me what medications I am allowed to take and I don't get to tell you how to practice religion.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:20 PM Flag
What cracks me up about the catholic church, is they will take public aid money, but when a woman want to get her tubes tied. They will refuse to do it. If they feel like the goverment is attacking them stop accpeting the Gov money period.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:46 AM Flag-
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specifics - if you really know what you are talking about and not just spouting some crap you overheard - what exact aid are they receiving?
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:39 AM FlagReally? My sister who is on public aid had her DD at St. Anthony Catholic Hospital, my siter also wanted to get her tubes tied and they refuse to do it. But they accepted her public aid payment that comes from the goverment. So if the catholic church does not want the gov telling them what to do then they also need to stop accepting patience that have welfare.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:45 AM Flagokay, so you proved my pt. Your sister was on public aid - not the Church. So, you are saying that the hospital should have turned her away? Could she have gone to a different hospital that could accomodate her request? Did she ask in advance? The pt is she had a choice to go there and deliver her baby there - no one held a gun to her head and told her to deliver there. If they had refused to accept her - you would be belly-aching over that.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 09:04 AM Flag
"Church affiliated" institutions - primarily universities and hospitals, but also other social service organizations contract with and accept money from Medicare, Medicaid, and NIH research grants. They also work with state and local governments, accepting money from all of them. If they want that money (and it is what keeps the doors open), they have to play by the same rules as everyone else.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:04 PM Flag
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WHAT WE NEED IS A RETURN TO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 09:32 AM FlagWE HAVE THE SEPARATION. The Catholic Church is free to practice its religion. However, once it enters into the arena of COMMERCE -- and employing private citizens -- it now has to follow the laws and regulations of the STATE, like all the other business enterprises do.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 09:36 AM Flag
Really...so providing coverage for an employee to chose what sort of health care they want is a problem? Jehovah's Witnesses don't allow blood transfusions. If I work for them and get hit by a car, I shouldn't be able to get a transfusion on my medical insurance? To each his-or her- own. And, btw, the overwhelming number of Catholics use contraception..including me.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 01:36 PM Flag-
It's mostly the church heirarchy causing issues and a few very conservative Catholics...imho.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 07:58 PM FlagEstimates are that 95+% of Catholic women have used birth control at some point during their childbearing years (including me and my sister, my mother and my cousins). This is merely extremely tone-deaf politics from a handful of very loud individuals who claim to represent some mythic Catholic Establishment.
[ Reply | More ]03.27.12, 08:34 PM Flag
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[+] My boyfriend of 3 years parents took him out for dinner last night without inviting m... 176 replies
- culture and religion. I don't have to be "tolerant" of cooked up divisions creating schisms in our society. I am perfectly happy to force my belief system on others when it comes to religious rules like polygamy, honor killings, female circumcision, and others. why should condemning a bigoted system of judging the "choseness" of people based on their genetics be any different?...
Talk : : March 19, 2012
My boyfriend of 3 years parents took him out for dinner last night without inviting me. Apparently they told him they love me very much and think I'm amazing, but want him to be with a Jewish girl. (I'm not religious at all). I'm infuriated. Why is it okay to be this openly bigoted??
176 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.19.12, 04:17 PM Flag ]Judaism is unique in that the religion is tied to the mother and therefore is passed down by blood. It is a funny concept because even those who barely believe in god still want their grandchildren to be jewish. It also does not help that many rabbis (and the state of Israel) constantly pound the table that the culture is under threat of extinction, so intermarriage is seen as turning one's back on their family/history/blood etc... I have heard the phrase "we did not go through the holocaust to be bred out".
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:23 PM Flagto continue: it's really his fault. it's his responsibility to be honest with you at the beginning. Good Jewish parents should teach their boys not to be jerks and lead women on if they have no intent of marriage at all. It just results in heartbreak on both sides.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:25 PM FlagOP: he's pissed at his parents. he thinks they're being bigoted. this has not changed his intentions.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:30 PM Flag-
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Well, it is a matter of BTDT. Wasted 1.5 years with a man I thought was the love of my life. On my birthday, I thought he was going to propose. Instead, he ended it because his mother would never accept me as his wife since I wasn't Jewish. He loved me, but his mother's views were too much to overcome. I seriously didn't date for 5 years after that; I was so devastated.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:59 PM Flag^^Oh, and I wanted to convert, but his parents were Conservative, and conversion wouldn't have been good enough!
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:01 PM FlagThat is really wrong on those parents' part. Once a person has completed conversion it is considered wrong to ever call them a "convert". At that point they are to be regarded as much of a Jew as one who was born into the faith. Many converts are indeed more observant than many born Jews. They embrace the rituals others neglect.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:23 PM Flag
wait until the parents bring up Auschwitz and the extermination of 5000 years of culture etc... I have seen no less than 3 engagements get called off. one happened when basically the entire Jewish family (extended and otherwise) all let him know they would never speak to him again if he went through with it. The funny thing is that these are educated families in all other facets. you would never supect them of being capable of such bias. it was really surprising.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:34 PM Flag
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That sucks, but I don't think it's necessarily bigoted. Maybe his parents are worried that if he marries you, their grandchildren won't be Jewish. There's a strong need to "preserve" Judaism in many Jewish families due to the high rate of intermarriage among Jews, as well as societal pressure to celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:24 PM Flagyou could argue that Judaism itself is a "bigoted" (by the modern definition) set of beliefs. The concept that one is worthy of a status not by holding a set of beliefs as in most religions, but purely by blood is technically bigoted. it is bias based on birth. An atheist person born to a Jewish mother is still Jewish according to the Jewish community, which does not tie at all to a covenant with god, just birth.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:29 PM FlagOR: For many people, it's the cultural affiliation and traditions that they want to preserve, not necessarily the religious beliefs. And it's not only by blood...people can convert. Lots of Jews by choice are much more committed to Judaism than Jews by birth.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:32 PM Flagexactly. one who is totally uncommitted to islam or christianity would rarely be called a christian or a muslim by those communities, but you are ALWAYS a jew if you are born to a jewish mother. There's no faith test for Israeli citizenship via aliyah laws, just a birth test.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:38 PM Flag
FWIW I am Jewish, intermarried, and regret it profoundly. My husband says insulting alienating, name-calling things about Jews when angry (filthy jewish c*nt was one). Do I have to explain why this is a problem?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:48 PM FlagI am pretty sure OP is saying some things already on this thread. Yes she is hurt but she is doing it.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:05 PM Flag-
We have a kid. He will still be the father. And my Jewish soul cannot get past the brokenness of a broken family.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 07:32 PM FlagDo you actually believe your own bs? Jewish soul? A Jewish soul that's ok with your jewish self beingcalled c word? Maybe you're one of those who likes to mess with threads, put in fake responses? If not, yes, he will still be her dad. You staying won't change the fact he was a poor choice. Still, staying isn't a solution. If you leave, neither of you will be living every day with a mood disordered misogynist anti-Semite. Of course if the real reason you won't leave is $$, You can't iget your own room. And have an affair.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 07:46 PM Flag
The question you haven't answered is what did BF think? If he tells you that he can't marry you because you his parents don't approve, you have every reason to be pissed at him. This conversation couldn't have come as a complete shock to him.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:30 PM FlagHe thinks they are bigoted and ridiculous. He's not the problem. The problem (for both of us) is that this exclusionary line of thinking is tolerated in NYC in 2012. It's disgusting.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:32 PM Flaghi OP, just saw this response (I think you wrote it while I wrote mine) - i am the orthodox jewish mom from the post immediately below this one. their view is not bigoted- I believe the same thing- and I think posters above explained where jews are coming from with this one. BUT- their view makes no sense if they didnt stress judaism growing up. it is not exclusionary, IF YOU are brought up within a religious jewish community, in a home where observant judaism is practiced. otherwise, yes, its a bit out of line to "demand" this
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:35 PM FlagSorry, honey. I understand why you are angry, but I would feel the same way if my DS wanted to marry someone who isn't Jewish. As Jews we want to see our Judaism continue into the next generation. It's a major part of the way we practice our religion. You need to talk to your BF and figure out where he stands on this issue. GL.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:51 PM Flag-
Nothing bigoted about wanting to see your grandchildren practicing your religion. I'm wondering how far you are going to get in any relationship if you see a big issue like this one in such black-and-white terms instead of trying to understand the other side and see what you might have in common.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:10 PM Flagnp: your grandchildren can practice your religion even if their mother is not Jewish. that's not the issue. it is the fear that somehow when the mother is not Jewish those kids will "fall off". my friend is married to a Catholic woman and she keeps a kosher home and has raised her 3 kids in the Jewish faith. that's more than i can say for many jewish couples.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:31 PM FlagAt the risk of inflaming those who are claiming bigotry, let me try to explain it. The children of a mother who is not Jewish are not Jewish either, whether or not they keep kosher and understand Torah better than every other kid in class. This is a matter of Jewish law. The kids are of course free to convert, as is anyone else. But they are not practicing Judaism because they are not Jewish. Personally I wonder why the parents would come up with a "solution" like this, which puts the kids in a theologically shaky position, undermining both parents' religions.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 10:16 AM Flag
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Orthodox Jewish Mom here- question for you OP: what does your BOYFRIEND say? I agree with the poster above who explained the concept of matrilineal descent, but then again, I come from an observant family, as does DH, and it was never something that was even a matter of discussion, it just went unsaid, that we would marry other jews. if DH doesnt go to Shul on YK, doesnt keep Kosher, and suddenly his parents say, you cant marry this girl because she is not Jewish, although from a "Jewish law" perspective, they are "CORRECT," that is an absurd and unfair demand to make on a kid. if he didnt grow up in a household that stressed judaism/jewish values/jewish belifs/jewish LAW, then his parents need to just deal with the fact that they didnt place an emphasis on Judaism, and these are the "consequences" of not doing so.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:33 PM Flagnp. It's never "correct" to make demands on who your kid can marry, based on race, class, religion, culture. If your kid falls in love with a good person who she loves and who treats her well, you should be happy. period.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:36 PM FlagThat is your belief, but that is not the belief system in all cultures. Don't force your belief system on others. This is not only an issue related to Jews. Many Muslims believe in arranged marriages within their faith. Indian families have arranged marriages based on religion and caste. My Catholic parents were *furious* my sister married outside the faith.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:39 PM FlagNP: This is the difference between secular culture and religion. I don't have to be "tolerant" of cooked up divisions creating schisms in our society. I am perfectly happy to force my belief system on others when it comes to religious rules like polygamy, honor killings, female circumcision, and others. why should condemning a bigoted system of judging the "choseness" of people based on their genetics be any different?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:44 PM Flagso your beliefs are okay and enforcable, but other peoples' are not? "religoius rules like polygamy" are wrong, immoral, and we need to rid the world of them, but "homosexuality" is okay? I am not judging either act. I am just playing devils advocate, and asking you where you draw the line.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:48 PM Flagmy rules are based an orderly society framed by common principles such as all people being equal. you draw the line where the belief system is not congruent with the nation's goals or when it infringes upon the rights of others. If you don't like equality and the concept that everyone is created equal, then get out of America. Silly tribal customs have no place in the modern nation.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:53 PM Flagso- please explain how polygamy is silly and tribal, but homosexuality is not. explain how polygamy infringes upon the rights of others, if someone makes the choice to live that lifestyle. no I'm not mormon, Im an athiest (or maybe agnostic) Jew. Ive never been to Utah or wherever it is they all live. Im just trying to understand why your "belief system" is "just" and "moral," while someone elses, because it is based on organized religion, is "intrinsically not."
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:26 PM FlagNp: women in those mormon sects don't have the right to make a choice, they're raised to believe their role is what it is. Brainwashed from day 1. Girls who are mutilated for religious reasons, even if they go along with it, do not have a choice.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 07:20 PM Flagnnp: i think the reason polygamy was outlawed in this country, was that since its inception it took advantage of women, was abusive to women, and was pretty much done solely to expand the number of Mormons since they weren't getting nearly the number of converts they hoped - i think that if it had evolved in some other way, we wouldn't see it as immoral. in fact, i'm not sure it's polygamy that people find immoral, per se, or the way it's practiced in certain populations in the US. i don't really care if some guy has a wife and a mistress or 2 wives - pretty much the same thing. Right now, the law only recognizes the first wife and since many of our laws esp of benefits and inheritance are based on one spouse at a time, it would really involve a re-writing of MANY laws to allow for multiple simultaneous marriages.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:38 PM Flag
Im the orthodox poster here- and IM NOT! nor do I force any of my beliefs on others. someone asked me recently: "do you think gay marriage is wrong." - YES I DO. which is why ***I*** AM MARRIED TO A MALE. but I have gay friends, and they live their life, and they arent forcing their beliefs on mine, nor am I forcing my beliefs on theirs. I have a catholic friend who thinks Divorce is wrong. if *I* got divorced tomorrow, she wouldnt think *I* was wrong for doing so, since I am not catholic. my beliefs are right for ME. I am not going around proselytizing. I was just explaining what Jewish law has to say on the matter. i grew up loving and appreciating my religion. no one forced me to marry a jew, but it just went unsaid.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:45 PM Flag-
How would your parents have reacted if you married a Catholic?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:51 PM Flagreacted? you mean like would anyone have killed him? my parents probably would have been sad. my friends would have been shocked, since i went to an orthodox jewish school (ramaz) and all my friends married Jews. but we are not some insular cult where any outsider in shunned. Ive seen intermarriage happen.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:15 PM FlagHuh? The OP didn't say her BF's parent's were going to kill him. You answered the question. Your paren't would have been sad. Your friends shocked. People disappointed in you? Would they treat you the same? Would they ostracisze you? I've heard many of these things from Orthodox parents. It is what it is.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 07:24 AM Flag
I'll go out on a limb here to suggest that the reason you MARRIED A MALE is because you are straight. But I do agree with your original point on the hypocrisy of insisting your child marry a Jew if you didn't emphasis faith in your house but casually. My parents were strict Catholics. When I started dating Jewish guys and whoever else I felt like in grad school, they were initially disappointed, but they never, ever took me to dinner to tell me I couldn't do it. They preached love your neighbor and in God's eyes we are all equal; it would have sounded ridiculous and malicious if they drew a line in the sand over what kinds of guys were acceptable to them.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 07:01 PM FlagYou may think your parents are "strict Catholics" (such a catholic term), but if took their beliefs seriously they in no way would want their daughter marrying a non-Christian. If your belief system dictates that salvation can only be attained through Jesus Christ, you would most definitely have a problem with your future grandchildren being raised in a house in which these values aren't reinforced.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:33 PM FlagNot the poster above - my Catholic parents would be disappointed, but they wouldn't wheel out some pretextual historical reason about race suicide to guilt and pressure me into marrying Catholic. I wish people would just admit they like to keep like with like.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 06:48 AM Flag
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Please don't pool Indians in with this. I am Indian and I know a lot of people who had arranged marriages, but that is when they are introduced by parents and then date for several months. And many don't have arranged marriages at all and still more marry outside their communities and religions. There are certainly Indians who tell their kids not to marry someone because they disapprove of XYZ and they are bigots.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:04 PM Flag
It is correct, according to jewish law. pretty black and white. But I am orthodox. parents can demand that their kids jump off the brooklyn bridge, kids can do what they want. I grew up in a household where Judaism was part of our daily lives. as did DH. our parents showed us the beauty of our religion, and we try to do the same for our kids. no one put a gun to our heads and said "marry a jew, or else." but it was never even a question in my mind.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:41 PM Flag
They might sense an opening since you're together 3 years and not engaged yet. My family would have preferred that my sister and I marry Jewish, but when my sister got engaged to her non-Jewish boyfriend, they shut up about it because it was clear that the commitment was there. If you get engaged to him, they might be convinced that he's not changing his mind about you and will be forced to get used to the idea. If they're reasonable people, it could happen. You know them better - if you think you can live with this, stay with him, but if you think they're going to make your lives miserable...
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:51 PM FlagI want my DD to marry a Jewish boy when the time comes--or a Jewish girl -- but Jewish is a must
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:52 PM Flagthis is how jews continue to isolate themselves yet cry anti-semitism.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 04:57 PM Flag-
Yes, because you had to come up with some sort of survival plan given how insular you have made yourself in every culture thus, hated.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:56 PM FlagYou would have nothing to hate otherwise. I am glad I can be of service to you.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:03 PM FlagRiiiight. *This* is why Jews are hated "in every culture?" Because we are too "insular?" Sure. I guess the European Jews must have been super happy to be forced to live in ghettos and wear a star, so they wouldn't have to co-mingle with those lesser non-Jews.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 12:10 AM FlagYes, in fact it is. The implication that jews viewed themselves as "superior" may indeed be incorrect but the facts surrounding a group who wanted to integrate economically but refused to do so socially or culturally are just that - facts. This sort of behavior, from any culture, breeds contempt. You cannot seriously believe that in every country at every turn there has been conflict only surrounding judaism while a host of other religions experienced periods of tolerance and acceptance for no reason did you?
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 04:44 AM Flag^^ what differentiated jews throughout history from other "alternative" religions was its closed society, cultural isolation and disinterest in co-mingling. That is the only difference between the jewish people and say the muslims who populated, successfully, the trading towns in the 16th century.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 04:48 AM FlagThis is ahistorical. As one example, look at the Jews in Spain prior to the inquisition where the Jewish community was highly integrated in Spanish social and cultural life. Or consider the highly integrated life of Maimonides, who is often regarded as the greatest post-biblical Jewish scholar. When permitted, Jewish communities have actively integrated into broader culture (minority extreme sects excepted of course). It is painful that this canard about Jewish insular behavior and "cultural isolation" would be repeated on this board in 2012.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 06:35 AM FlagI'm the poster who made the "ghetto" comment above. The OR right above me is correct. There are lots of countries where Jews were quite assimilated, to the degree they were allowed to be. When times got tough--that's when Jews were often singled out as "the other." When you say Jews are hated because they chose to remain isolated, it justifies that hatred and places the blame on the Jews themselves. Maybe that makes you more comfortable...but it's not correct.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 09:47 AM Flag
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hey, i was dating a jewish guy and he would have married me and i would have converted. that would have been kosher with the family. ignorant me, though, because i was like, "the kids choose their own religion like i would choose judaism as an adult." his reply: "but that's the whole point of your converting -- so that the kids will be jewish. my parents don't give a flying hoot about your religion." well, bless me i was so naive.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:00 PM FlagBecause jews are allowed to be bigots. Anyone else who does it is a racist & discriminatory.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:20 PM FlagDo you believe in anything? Well, now imagine that it was very important to you that this value be carried forward, that it represents your connection to your parents and their parents, and that you worked very hard to teach this value to your kid, and that you are concerned that your kid wants to abandon that. Would it be wrong for you to urge him to reconsider?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:31 PM FlagYES! it's so absolutely totally WRONG. it's just plain old bigotry against others in order to make yourself feel superior. values my ass.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:36 PM Flag-
What no one seems to fully grasp is that this cry of 'bigotry in the name of self preservation' never was, in fact, implemented as a protective measure against hatred from other cultures for other reasons. It is the insular, isolated racist nature of the culture to begin with that has BRED the hatred you love to wear as an armband.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:00 PM Flag-
That is your own fault. Why is your definition of what is a jew so restrictive to birth?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:10 PM Flagnp: so if all Italians intermarry, will Italians cease to exist? this line of reasoning makes no sense. some will intermarry and some won't. some who do will still maintain their culture. dh is greek. his uncle married an american woman. she is now the most greek woman his family has ever met! once can keep a culture and beliefs and pass them on.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:43 PM FlagNP: why? Why is it automatically assumed that in this day and age that the couple wouldn't raise their kids Jewish?
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 10:07 PM Flag
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np: Okay then. I am white and blonde. I want my children only to marry white people for the sake of preserving these characteristics. I am still a bigot. And the whole self-preservation argument is BS. Someone can still pass down Jewish culture, religion, and traditions without being born from a Jewish mother. Just because you want to use a religious explanation doesn't make it any less bigoted.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 10:30 PM Flag
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I am wondering after three years whether it's time to have a talk with him about whether he is interested in being with you for the long haul
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:49 PM FlagIt is bigoted to non-jews. They cannot understand what the legacy of european jewry has done to the consciences and sense of history of american jews. It don't matter that he wan't in the holocaust. People feel an obligation to perpetuate the tradition in its own right, not in another creed or outsider's view of what is is or should be about..
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 05:50 PM FlagThis viewpoint did not begin with WWI, the jewish culture has been this way and viewed other cultures in the same manner for thousands of years. Chicken and egg.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:02 PM Flagfine, call it part of the culture then. people want to perpetuate it because it represents a beauty and wholeness and connection to history for thousands of years. non-jews, especially if not committed to converting, don't usually understand that. it isn't' bigotry. It's about wanting to maintain and pass forward an identity you like and are committed to. It's about how people understand the idea of "home" and how to build one.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:52 PM FlagIt is indeed bigotry plain and simple. Do you think a white supremest does not believe he has "wholeness" and "cultural preservation" as excuses for his hatred of you? Do you think muslims do not also share this desire to "maintain and pass forward identity"? The sense of entitlement that world war two transitioned to the jewish people is insurmountable. You were not the first culture to experience holocaust, you are not the last and yet you alone feel uniquely entitled to hate, isolate, cast judgment and be racist. That you do not see that is part of the problem.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:04 PM FlagOk, I get that. It must be nice to feel that that is an option. But we've come a long way from the place where the history of a culture can be a substitute for the mind, heart and conscience of an individual. As much as a person might want to, they can't maintain their integrity by denying what they feel for the sake of conformity. And the spiritual value of a tradition that would make someone deny a loved one based on things outside their control is questionable.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:20 PM Flag+1. Is the religion itself more important than the individuals who adhere to that religion? And if we're talking bigotry, atheists or agnostics like the OP have had to put up with plenty of discrimination themselves, but I hate it when everything comes down to a "I'm the most oppressed" competition, which always seems to be the case with this stuff.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 10:11 PM Flag
np: this is not all that different from the argument the nazis used in trying to keep Aryan race pure, no? saying that your race/religion/culture is superior and thus others are not worthy, is exactly what bigotry is. pretty sure white supremacists use this argument too, when statistics show that in another generation hispanics will the be dominant race/culture in the US...
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 09:45 PM FlagThe difference is that the Jews don't perpetrate hate crimes in the name of "preservation." They don't around in pick-up trucks looking for non-Jews to lynch and they don't use their political power to set up concentration camps. It's disgusting of you to even equate the two.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 04:10 AM Flag-
Please look up the Hebron massacre of the early 20th Century and the pogroms abetted by the Mufti of Jerusalem in the mid-20th. Then see if there's anything in post-1967 West Bank that remotely compares. Please also compare conditions in 1948-1967, when an Arab nation occupied the territory. Then come talk.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 07:17 AM Flag
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My best friend's now-dh went through the same exact thing. In fact, on one occasion, my best friend, her dh, and both sets of parents were out to dinner when my best friend's dh's parents said to HER parents, we will never accept her. We don't approve of them getting married. They shunned her at family engagements and actually asked her to leave a shiva once. It was brutal. My friend tried so hard, then finally just gave up. Funny thing? Her MIL did eventually come around and even apologized for her actions. I hope you don't go thru such a hard situation, but just wanted to share with you a different side to this story. Sometimes it can work out. GL to you.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:05 PM FlagWe promote marriage within our faith to postpone total annihilation of our religion. It's on our blood, it's a survival instinct imprinted in our DNA... I understand why one would see it as racist, but it's not an aggressive thing where we see ourselves as better or anything like that. I just believe that we feel subconsciously that if our ancestors made it out of Inquisition Spain, Pogrom Russia and Nazi Germany, we should do the least to keep our flame alive.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:15 PM FlagThis doesn't make any sense. If you want to postpone annihilation of your religion, then you should accept non-Jewish converts and you should allow Jews to marry non-Jews and raise the dcs Jewish. Then the # of Jews in the world would increase. And it is still bigoted. If white people started forcing their children to only marry white people so that they can preserve the #s of white people in an increasingly non-white country and world, you would be shrieking bigotry. It's. the. same. thing.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 10:38 PM Flag
Why don't you just ask him to marry you? See what he says. If he decides to disregard his parent's wishes, well, you've got one independent thinker. You can have kids and watch the grandparents crawl their way to your doorstep in hopes they can have a relationship with them. Atheism is so much easier.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:17 PM Flagand if you marry him, you'll have a blast with the in-law relationship
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:35 PM FlagOP, you don't exactly sound like you are very tolerant of ideas that don't mash with your world view. This wasn't an 'open' conversation, it was a conversation between parents and child. I don't know why your BF decided to share it with you. If he plans to marry you he needs to fight this battle with his parents without hurting you or ask you if you are willing to bring up your dc Jewish if that is what he wants. However, it seems he is just creating an issue between his parents and you.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 06:40 PM FlagI am not jewish or Christian for that matter and absolutely their views are bigoted. If a white guy was told by his parents not to marry a foreign girl, because of their rich culture etc, that would be bigoted. If a Islamic guy was told by his parents not a marry a non Islamic girl, that would be bigoted. Any other combination this would be acutely bigoted. Judaism is truly the only religion in NYC that expects to continue having bigoted ideas but act as if it is OK for them. No it is not. It is simply bigoted. Please don't convert into this, OP!
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:01 PM FlagHonestly, weather Or not your bf agreed with them, he is a childish twit for sharing this with you and starting trouble. If he wanted to be woh you he should have handles
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:41 PM FlagHandled his intentions and the consequences with his parents alone and made it clear that there would be consequences to their relationship if you are made to feel unwelcomed. The fact that he has strung you along for three years and then shares with you this conversation basically says he is not going to choose you to the detriment of his relationship with his parents, but he doesn't have the balls to tell you, so he'll let his parents do it through a third person recount of their conversation. Wake up, OP.
[ Reply | More ]03.19.12, 08:45 PM FlagThis! But I tried to explain above and was told that it is part of having a good relationship. Such BS. BF's family can express their hopes for ds and he can tell them otherwise or ask OP if she is willing to find a compromise. None of that took place. Not a good sign.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 04:35 AM Flag
Very interesting thread. I have a Jewish friend whose divorced Jewish parents each remarried non-Jews. However, they went insane when my friend's brother both married a non-Jew AND gave their kids a hyphenated last name starting with the wife's surname. I think they have no contact with him anymore, or the grandkids.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 02:49 AM FlagIt is about the kids being Jewish not marriage itself. If OP wants to get advice this is what she needs to understand but she is too busy spewing bigot responses which makes it clear that in 3 years together she never tried to understand BF's family or background.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 04:42 AM FlagHonestly if OP thinks her BF's parents are bigots she should break up with him. Give it up OP or are you intent on marrying him because you love him or because it's a challenge for you to destroy his relationships with his parents. Them or you. You certainly sound like you despise Jews. Why you are dating one is beyond me. Offer to convert. Why aren't you engaged after 3 years btw? Sounds like it's over.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 05:51 AM Flag
Prefacing this by saying I'd prefer my kids to marry Catholic or, if that's not possible, something within Protestantism. Actually, I'd be really disappointed if they didn't. However, my $.02 is that you've got to break up with this guy. First, it's been three years you've been dating with no talk of marriage. He, apparently, permits his parents to say these things about your relationship without standing up to them. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy at all, but it does mean he's likely pretty conflicted about this. If you marry him, this is merely the beginning. You'll probably be expected to convert and raise your kids Jewish. This may not seem like a big deal, but if you're Christian you need to take seriously the fact that not only will you no longer celebrate Christian holidays, but neither will your children or grandchildren. I've had a lot of friends shrug this off and it ended up really bothering them. Sorry you're going through this, but I think it's time to cut your losses and move on.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 06:39 AM Flaga dh: What amazes me is how narrow minded and wrong so many of the Jews and apologists above are. There is no reason you and your boyfriend could not marry and raise your kids as Jews. Even absent you converting. Judaism is very clear that anyone who converts is accepted as a Jew without qualification. So if it is important to your bf, he can own it. If not, he needs to stand up to his parents. If he does neither, run away.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 06:58 AM FlagI used to be friends with a couple. He was a non-practicing Jew who never went to Temple. She was a non-practicing C
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 08:39 AM FlagCatholic who only went to Church on Christmas and Easter. I asked them if they ever had children how would they raise them and they convinced me that they would celebrate both religions together and when their children got older, they would let him/her decide for themselves. They were married for many years before they eventually had a daughter. The husband became defiant that she would be raised Jewish only. They ended up divorced over the issue.
[ Reply | More ]03.20.12, 08:45 AM Flag
[+] I haaaaaate the prescription medication rigamarole. Why can't I get something like D... 13 replies
- Nope. Good old-fashioned midwestern circumcised American loser....
Talk : : March 16, 2012
I haaaaaate the prescription medication rigamarole. Why can't I get something like Diflucan over the counter? Hate this.
13 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.16.12, 04:29 PM Flag ]i know. it makes me mad that you have to have an rx for birth control too. just to get you into the gynecologist's office once a year. grrr.
[ Reply | More ]03.16.12, 04:31 PM Flag-
are the otc creams no good for you? i always chose those b/c the oral affects your entire system and i had thought you could become resistant to it. most important, wear 100% cotton underwear. ditch the sexy christian dior ones.
[ Reply | More ]03.16.12, 05:20 PM FlagThis, plus no soap in the shower, plus probiotics. Also have your DH/partner use OTC antifungal to see if that helps. The only thing that worked for me about 15 years ago was (ick) boric acid suppositories - I'm sure it was an untreated infection in my then-BF that kept on giving...
[ Reply | More ]03.16.12, 05:28 PM Flag
[+] I know of someone who was circumcised as a grown man and he 'claims' that he had bett...
Talk : : March 08, 2012
[+] Why are American woman so creeped out by foreskin? Really. What is it? Don't say t... 146 replies
- female genital mutiliation equals circumcision? get fucking rea....
- There is research and stats compiled on the matter. Circumcision is not the norm anymore....
- of Health and Human Services has compiled data on circumcision rates per income, region of the country, age and...friends after having kids so our decisions not to circumcise were made independently....
Talk : : March 08, 2012
Why are American woman so creeped out by foreskin? Really. What is it? Don't say the STD thing. It's not true. If it were then there would be few cases of STDs in the US and we know it's not true.
146 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.08.12, 08:15 AM Flag ]Half of American boys have not been circumcised so half of your daughters (at least) will date one. Calm down.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:21 AM Flagit's the look. It looks ugly when it's just hanging there. It's like a chicken neck
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:22 AM Flag-
OP here. I dated several Euopean men and didn't think about this one way or the other. Then I found out that most American women are such babies about this. Many had never seen a non-circ'd man. Wow!
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:25 AM Flag-
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I know several men that got circumsised in their late 20 and 30's. just do it while they're a baby.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:47 AM Flag-
They said it keept getting infected. Had nothing to do with looks.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:56 AM Flagyou know, the only bf i had who got yeast infection on his penis was uncircumcised. i think i got it, then gave it to him, then he gave it back to me, etc. i think he was actually glad when we took a six week break during one holiday (in college). we both got rid of it then.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:03 AM FlagI know the parents think they're saving their son a lot of pain, and it does seem barbaric. but, later in life it's a pain to maintain that one inch of skin. Btw, all the guy says it's so painfull and they wished they're parents did it while they were babies.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:13 AM Flag
np. Congratulations! This is one of the most hilarious examples of blatant lying to try and make a point. So, let's get this straight... You know *several* men who've had this experience--an experience which any physician will confirm is unusual--and these several men all felt free enough to chat about their recurring dick infections with you? Seriously, you deserve some sort of prize for this claim. Carry on!
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 03:16 PM Flag
What kind of relationship do you have with these men that they talk to you about their penis?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 10:43 AM Flag
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I'll tell you what, I look at male and female genitalia all day at work; circ and non, labia of all shapes and sizes. We're ALL pretty funny looking down there when you get right down to it.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:53 AM Flag-
I like the way the un'c penis shows itself as it gets erection. As for the woman who says yucky, their vaginas probably smell worst.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:32 AM FlagJewish here - firstime I saw an uncut was 25 - creaped me out
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:50 AM Flag-
For the record, I am cool with my circumsized penis, I was riding my bike just yesterday and my penis got caught between my seam and pant leg and I was thinking if there was foreskin there that would hurt, tree I imagine it is much more densensitized and it takes me longer to finish during sex than if I were uncircumsized but that just puts me closer in tune with my partner.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 01:15 PM Flagi'm American and the best i ever had was with an uncirc'd Scottish man. i adopted my DS from an African country when he was 2. there was no way i was going to circ him at 2, so he and DH don't "match," and neither of them care. the "it looks ugly" argument is very provincial and childish.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:10 PM FlagIt may be childish until he is older and mature but he still has to go through being teen/young adult and be different from other boys and men and get a possible neg reaction from girls/women.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:13 PM FlagConsidering that boys who are circumcised will be in the minority, I highly doubt he'll have any problem.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:18 PM Flagminority??? I have never heard of anyone who isnt circumcizing their sons. Are people actually not doing this now?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:38 PM FlagYes, particularly upper middle class people. Just under 50% of the UMC are circumcising these days.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:44 PM Flag-
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17circ.html?_r=1&ref=health
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:00 PM Flag
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You missed the article in the NYT that stated that only 32% of families are circumcising their sons as of 2009? Yeah, I'd say that a circumcised boy is going to be in the minority.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:44 PM Flag
The idea of father and son "matching" is really fucking gross. It's just so backwards.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:17 PM FlagI don't have a son but I dont think it was meant like that. Kids will ask these questions. If something looks different, they will prob ask. Reminds me of moms like myself who wax. I have a DD and wonder if she will ask me why I dont have hair
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:42 PM Flagwhat do you think about transracial adoptive families then, where nobody "matches" at all?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:43 PM FlagIt's wrong. The kids develop a huge complex, leads to drugs and self mutilation.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:46 PM FlagI dont think kids have to match their parents, I just think these questions naturally come up. transracial kid might ask his dad/mom why they have different color skin. Its not a bad thing, I think its a natural curiosity. Its just how it is answered by parent
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:48 PM Flag
I dated a Brazilian guy for 3 years who was not circumcized. It showed me more than ever that if I had a DS I would circ him. Basically, it was unattractive to me. And if he hadnt showered all day it smelled, not all the time, but I could tell the difference. Sorry tmi. Majority American women expect non circ so why set your son up to feel embarassed later in life? I feel its an American cultural norm and has benefits mentioned here like hygine ect
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:11 PM FlagYou should have dated someone with better hygiene. Second, most of our sons will not be dating women 40years older than themselves.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:18 PM Flag
Baring Jews and other folks whose sons are circumcised outside of the hospital, only 32% of boys are circumcised as of 2009. This is down from 56% in 2006. Rates are on the steady decline, so these women just sound like old biddies with their "ewww...a penis with a foreskin is grosssss" bit.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:16 PM Flagmy source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17circ.html?_r=1&ref=health
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:16 PM Flagthis proves nothing to me. Its gone down a bit but people still do it. The numbers dont even include Jews or ppl not reinmbursed by insurance. Article says numbers are still being worked on. To each their own but I dont think its the a minority yet
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:41 PM FlagYes, you realize that Jews only make up 1.7% of the American population, right?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:48 PM Flag-
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All Im saying is Im not going to not circ bc people in middle america stopped doing it
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:01 PM FlagActually, that's EXACTLY who is still doing it. The midwest and the south have the highest rates of circumcision in American. The lowest rates of circumcision are on the West coast and Northeast.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:07 PM Flagagain- where is this info coming from? Where did you read this?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:09 PM FlagThe link to the Dept. of Health and Human Services has compiled data on circumcision rates per income, region of the country, age and many other demarcations. The people still circumcising? Southerners and Mid-westerners who live in small to medium metropolitan areas with median incomes per their zip codes.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:13 PM FlagIf you find it, post it. Never read that and would be interested to see that in print. Not to discredit statistics but every person I know with boys including family members and friends have circumcised. I dont have a DS but if I did, this would weigh on my decision
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:19 PM Flag
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Ok, here's the stats for circumcised discharged patients taken from the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services for 2009 (most recent stats): 99.86% were circumcised before the age of 1. So, for the multiple posters who state they know several men who were circumcised as adults, only 63 men in the 18-44 age group in the ENTIRE country were circumscribed in 2009. As for the financial demographics: ~35% on Medicaid, ~58% private insurance, ~3% uninsured, 3% other. As for residence demographics: ~22% large metro, ~30% suburbs of large metro, ~27% medium/small metro, 19% rural area. Regions of the country: ~19% Northeast, ~32% Midwest, ~40% South and ~10% West. Here's the link: http://hcupnet.ahrq.gov/HCUPnet.jsp?Id=E8375AEA43148D2F&Form=SelCROSSTAB&JS=Y&Action=%3E%3ENext%3E%3E&_Oneway=Yes
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:05 PM FlagHere's my take on the real difference btwn circ and uncirc. Circumcised men need lubes to do a hand job. Uncircumcised men don't as the foreskin acts as sheath. I have had the best sex with uncircumcised men, but this could be just cultural as they were European and I felt they were much more in tune with with their body and sexual needs of women than American men.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:00 PM Flag-
It is outdated, painful and unnecessary. This article gives good reasons not to do it. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/health/23consumer.html
[ Reply | More ]03.09.12, 12:26 PM FlagOP is a draconian technocrat who wants to stop the perfectly healthy practice of oral suction on newborns:
[ Reply | More ]03.10.12, 10:05 AM Flag- [ Removed by moderator ] [ More ]03.10.12, 10:05 AM
- [ Removed by moderator ] [ More ]03.11.12, 06:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceht-3xu84I
[ Reply | More ]03.11.12, 06:49 PM FlagUncirc is so much better sexually. Never had a problem with odor with my ex. I used to orgam multiple times a night, it just felt good. lol I've also seen babies getting circ'ed in the nursery way back when I was in nursing school. It looked very painful, they don't even cry for a sec. It seems like it literally takes their breath away because it is so painful. Poor things.
[ Reply | More ]03.11.12, 09:43 PM Flag
[+] ooooh. here's a hot potato. uncircumcised: nice or yuck? 101 replies
- circumcision helps prevent hiv transmission. lots of UN studies...grip. Half of American boys aren't being circumcised, so your daughters will date/marry uncircumcised men...
- Circumcise...
- they circumcise potatoes?...
Talk : : March 07, 2012
ooooh. here's a hot potato. uncircumcised: nice or yuck?
101 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.07.12, 10:18 PM Flag ]-
mine are ..and my best friends 12 yo ds is not and holy shit have they had a rough time. infection after infection..boys aren't the cleanest people on the planet and she says it is such a pita and if she could do it all over again she would circumcise him.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 10:28 PM FlagThe vast majority of men in the world are nit circumcised. They do not get infection after infection.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 10:59 PM Flag
Yuck, IMO. BUT - I am not sure whether I'd circumcise my son (I only have girls)
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 10:35 PM FlagI'm not sure whether I would circumcise either. genital mutilation.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:23 AM FlagYou don't know much about FGM if you think that male circumcision is equivalent. The main forms of FGM are analogous to at a minimum removing the entire head of the organ, not just the foreskin. Sort of the difference between getting your ears pierced and cutting your external ears off.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:45 AM Flag
Oh please, you people are revolting. Leave these sweet little boys and their penises alone.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:11 AM Flag-
yuck, but i know it's a cultural thing. if i had grown up somewhere else, i'm sure i might think circumsised was yuck.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 04:33 AM Flag-
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An honest justification for genital mutilation ; yes, for that reason.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:15 AM Flag-
Only if the guy in question has genuinely appalling personal hygiene habits.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:25 AM Flagnope. scrupulously clean guy but when you have skin folds, it ain't gonna happen.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:56 AM FlagAnd what about a woman's skin folds? All that area within the labia, under the hood of the clitoris, inside the vagina itself. Amazing how women manage to keep themselves from smelling rank, isn't it? Or maybe you do reek and your guy just holds his breath when he goes down on you? Honestly, this is absurd. If an uncirc'ed guy stinks, it's because he's got crappy personal hygiene.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:47 AM Flag
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circumcision helps prevent hiv transmission. lots of UN studies on it.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:19 AM FlagPlease! Tell that to all the circumcised American men with AIDS. God.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:12 AM Flag-
No, I didn't pass statistics. Whatever. Being circumcised will not stop you from getting AIDS. You are seriously misinformed.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:46 AM FlagDriving without drinking alcohol will not prevent you from having an accident. I know plenty of people who have been seriously injured in car accidents while driving sober, so you shouldn't consider the risk of having a car accident when deciding whether or not to have a drink.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:46 AM Flag
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This is stupid. Once it's erect you can't tell the difference.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:24 AM Flagyes, you can (smell) and you've got to get it there anyway.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:26 AM FlagIf you've encountered a smell issue, you must have been dating some skeezy guys, sorry. if a guy keeps himself clean, there's no reason the area under the foreskin should be any smellier than the skin between a woman's outer and inner labia, for instance. But I assume you somehow manage to keep yourself from smelling nasty, yes? So can any guy who bothers with hygiene.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:32 AM FlagThis. What about women? Really. There are serious folds in the female anatomy. Should we cut them off? Geez.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:48 AM Flagyeah, forskin removal and labia removal is so analogous. epic fail.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 07:58 AM FlagAre you being deliberately obtuse? The point is, women have even more folds in their genital area than men do. Yet somehow I think most of us manage to maintain a standard of hygiene that prevents us from stinking. It's not particularly difficult. There is absolutely NO reason why an uncut man can't do the same. If the guy stinks, it's because he's not making an effort. He probably has crap beneath his fingernails and never flosses, too, so not only would I not want to go down on him, I wouldn't want him touching me or to kiss him.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:50 AM FlagThis reminds me of when I was 17 and had my first serious boyfriend, and my mother had a talk with me that involved, in part, he giving me a near-lecture on how I should insist that bf keep his hands and nails clean at all times, yadda yadda yadda. She was pretty vague about why it was so important, and it all went right over my head. Wasn't until I was like 30 that it finally dawned on me she didn't want this guy fingering me with nasty ragged fingernails. OMG, was I naive.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 09:06 AM Flag
Eh - I have had both types of lovers and with one it was nasty and the other it was great. depends on the man. I am Jewish though, so DS was circ'd and having a great mohel it was not a big deal and I would do it again.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:37 AM Flag-
I had c, non c, half c(medical need) and even non c Jew. Yuckiness has nothing to do with it. We don't live in a desert anymore
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 06:21 AM FlagWe did circumcise our son but this post makes me feel sad -- whether a male is or is not, it's his body and I would feel awful going on some dude website and reading about "large nipples, hot or not" or whatever -- both are fine, and I would never say "yuck" or want someone to say yuck about my body.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 06:34 AM FlagCut part of the penis so it looks better, wax your whole body because woman say yuck to this too. Are you gals sure you like men?
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 06:43 AM FlagAll else being equal I guess I'd prefer circ'd but it's really not a big deal and I certainly wouldn't venture into "yuck" territory over it. DH is uncirc'd and our son will also be uncirc'd. No big deal really and apparently parents are moving away from circ'ing in droves. Spoke to Dr. about it yesterday - very interesting.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 08:26 AM Flag-
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[+] Subway Nightmares -- post yours! 41 replies
- Guy was sitting across from me with sweatpants and a boner. I could see it so clearly through his pants, I could tell he was circumcised...
Talk : : March 07, 2012
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this morning the A train at Jay St Metro would not leave the station. stood there for a good 10 minutes chock full o' pissed-off commuters. out of nowhere a flood of scared-looking passengers from the next car come running and pushing into my car. standing cheek-by-jowl trying to steel myself one guy yells out loud, "that smelly bum picked the worst time to come into that car." so disgusting.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:19 PM Flag7 months pregnant. A woman tried to be brave and give up her seat in the handicapped area. However, its other stenchy occupent was missing bits of fingers, had scales, and was barely conscious. Kept touching my coat. I couldn't move b/c this foreign tourist looked so proud of herself - and hell, who even gives up seats to preggos anymore? I threw away my overcoat that night.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:21 PM Flag-
The aggressive, obnoxious panhandlers get on my nerves. One guy on a packed N train last week was faking a limp and a speech impediment. Just before the doors closed, he started his speech, but then some genuinely crazy guy in a wheelchair pushed his way in and started giving his spiel. The first guy just walks off (no limp) and swearing to himself (speaking normally).
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:27 PM FlagSome guy pulled out a huge knife and stood there admiring it. He was clearly not all there and no one wanted to provoke him. Don't know what happened since I hightailed it out of there at the next stop.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:27 PM FlagSome drunk a-hole on the F train was ranting and raving about God and judgment and was trying to get in everyone's faces. He kept picking on smaller people too practically challenging them to a fight. I really wanted to take out my headphones and give him a piece of my mind but he was scarrrrry.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:31 PM Flag
Guy was sitting across from me with sweatpants and a boner. I could see it so clearly through his pants, I could tell he was circumcised
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:29 PM FlagDepends on your perspective, I guess, but I don't see this as a nightmare. Signed, Gay Dad.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:32 PM Flag-
Jesus H. Christ, men are disgusting. Visible boners in public are one step (or one thin piece of fabric) away from flashing. Gross. That's threatening, not hot.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:44 PM FlagGay dad, did it ever occur to you that the boner wasn't for you? I'm all in favor of gay parentage, but good Lord, wise up.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:49 PM FlagGay Dad here. Come ON ladies, lighten up! I wasn't being totally serious. I can see how it could be truly gross, but my point is that it's not the worst nightmare (especially if it was a really cute guy -ha!). Plus, I love how the lady who saw it didn't just recoil but took the time to notice it was circumcised.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 03:32 AM Flag
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I was on a car with a guy who got into a fight with his reflection in the door. He first spit on himself and then bunched the door, breaking the glass. He settled down for a few minutes and then bent down and stood up again with dried orange peels sticking out of his mouth. He was completely deranged. Of course, the train was stuck for a while.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:41 PM FlagCoat molester victim above: TOO common! When I was 6 months pregnant, my train into Manhattan stopped at a suburb at 5:30am or so, and some nut got so pissed he missed the doors closing he started beating on my window... so hard the weather seal leaked and I got black water on my clothes. Had BX but strong. Took the day off. Crazy, crazy, crazy people in this area.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 06:51 PM Flag
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on the D train, JHS kids jacking off and laughing at their erections. disgusting.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 07:12 PM Flag-
The comedian David Brenner tells the story of taking the subway a few days after his first gig on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Guy sitting across from him looks him in the eye, has that sudden flash of recognition and says, "I know you.... YOU ARE FUNNY!" David Brenner thanks the guy. "You must have seen me on the Tonight show," he explains. "I thought it was a good set. Johnny did too. Told me so himself." The guy smiles, looks at the woman to Brenner's left, leans forward, "I know you... YOU ARE FUNNY."
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 07:46 PM FlagThis is a nightmare, as in it never really happened. I keep thinking I get on the train and either my 2.5yo or 5yo gets left behind in the station because they were too distracted to follow instruction. Either that, or they got on the wrong train and I didn't notice and the train left the platform.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 09:43 PM FlagI'd been in the city for exactly one week and I was groped. A man behind me on a crowded car pressed his hard-on into my butt. I had your stereotypical embarrassed response and at the time I couldn't be sure if what he was doing was an accident. If it happened today, I'd yell at him and turn him in. I really regret doing nothing.
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:18 AM Flagi have a good subway story - on D train. crowded. panhandler starts tell michael jackson jokes that were so horrible that they were funny. train is silent and i just busted out laughing. once i did, other people did and they guy made some money. otherwise, seen plenty of penises, been groped, almost vomited from homeless stench,.....the usual....
[ Reply | More ]03.08.12, 05:25 AM Flag
[+] Has anyone seen the reports about how the Koch Brothers are trying to take over the C... 14 replies
- wow - you have issues - the country is in decline and last I looked this administration was trying to abolish separateion of church and state with both the mandated birth control and in SF trying to make getting your db circumcised illegal....
Talk : : March 07, 2012
Has anyone seen the reports about how the Koch Brothers are trying to take over the CATO Institute, which has been an independent Libertarian think tank for decades? They don't like CATO because once in a blue moon, they actually report something which supports what Democrats are saying, and they want to stop that kind of thinking at once. All research should be biased toward the Republican line. Seriously, if the Republicans take over, this country will be ruled by the Koch's. Truly scary.
14 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.07.12, 11:41 AM Flag ]and all the media except Fox is biased toward Dems and brainwashes everyone that Reps are bad - whatever!
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:44 AM FlagI know, the Koch's are wonderful men. They could be President and VP if they wanted, but they prefer to stay in the background, funding organizations that promote their philosophy. I love everything they stand for! I can't wait until their philosophy becomes the philosophy of the US. Then this country can get moving again! Hooray!
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:52 AM Flag
No you are scary. Poorly read populations with misplaced confidence in their views are always whats scary.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:44 AM Flag-
Hopefully you aren't Jewish. Really. When Koch takes over, this country goes into economic decline, and a scapegoat needs to be found, it ain't gonna be any Christians. Since Jews are so closely identified with the Democratic party, they will be the first scapegoat.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:49 AM Flag
here's my dumb question of the day...who exactly are the Koch brothers?
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:48 AM Flag
[+] Oh! Poor newborn died from herpes contracted during a circumcision in NY 9 replies
- A certain way of doing a circumcision that has been criticized in the past....
- OP. I am all for circumcision actually (and not this is not what this post is about). I feel like this is just so sad. I think this way of doing it is no longer the case even...
Talk : : March 07, 2012
Oh! Poor newborn died from herpes contracted during a circumcision in NY
9 replies [ Reply | Watch | More03.07.12, 11:03 AM Flag ]A certain way of doing a circumcision that has been criticized in the past.
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:14 AM FlagOP. I am all for circumcision actually (and not this is not what this post is about). I feel like this is just so sad. I think this way of doing it is no longer the case even in orthodox communities (and in fact using a glass device of some sort has been approved by rabbis). it's just so sad. and kind of gross that a rabbi has herpes!
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:19 AM FlagWhat is so gross about a rabbi having herpes? HSV-1 (the type of infection this baby had according to the article) is the virus that produces cold sores. LOTS of people have HSV-1 infections, what makes it gross in a rabbi?
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:43 AM FlagPlease. Stop with the judgements. Herpes is not gross. It is a fact of life for many of us on this board, and I'm sure others don't appreciate the stigma that some put on here about it. Particularly oral herpes (HSV1) is easily transmitable through kissing or sharing drinks, and some people don't know they have it. The religious practice is not hygenic or safe for the baby for a number of reasons, only one of which is the potential transmission of herpes. There are religous who approve of safe alternatives. Who ever thought having a old man suck the blood from a newborn's penis was a good idea?
[ Reply | More ]03.07.12, 11:45 AM Flag
[+] Christopher Hitchens and others criticized both the tribalism and the wacky doctrines... 62 replies
- so you are ok the 'honor killings' , female circumcision, fatwahs, a return to the Califate?...
Talk : : February 17, 2012
Christopher Hitchens and others criticized both the tribalism and the wacky doctrines of religion. Surely like any institution, religions can be exploited for political reasons. Did it not occur to them that there must be SOME reason religion developed and has persisted?
62 replies [ Reply | Watch | More02.17.12, 07:47 AM Flag ]Chris Hitchens essentially killed himself, not only by cigarettes, but having a hopeless outlook on life and making sure everyone else did too.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 07:54 AM Flag^^^I would also like to add that he did have a brilliant mind but abused it.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 07:55 AM FlagAgree. He sounded like an angry drunk to me. Not my fave at all.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 07:59 AM Flaghe did not suffer fools... maybe that's why you found him so offensive.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:02 AM Flag^ that wasn't me responding. He was not my fave because he was thoughtless about why religion appeals to people. In a way he was like a fundamentalist preacher condemning man's fallen nature. Yes he spoke his mind and did not suffer fools gladly - and he reached a lot of people who were suspicious of the crap and myth and allowed them to step out of the delusion. But he also angered and alienated. perhaps it was necessary. Perhaps he blazed the way for more circumspect and kind :-) atheists like myself.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:10 AM Flag
Interesting. I recently read a Christian philosopher who was very similarly critical about religion, but essentially held onto his faith because it provided 'hope' Hope for what was unclear to me, but I suspect for a world, a universe, that cared about him. And for an afterlife in heaven, I suppose.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 07:58 AM FlagOR: Well no one likes the world religion because of the hypocrisy attached but the hope of holding on to God uplifts us. The hope that all the injustices put upon us will be righted, the hope that we will see our dead loved ones again, the hope that what is wrong with your life can be made right.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:00 AM Flag
i dont agree, I dont think there are many people who got so much out of life. He simply knew what was good and worth defending and fought to defend that line every day.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:01 AM Flag
I hate him. I don;t feel like he had anything of value to offer, always had a bitter self-serving and selfish agenda. ugh
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:12 AM Flagso you are ok the 'honor killings' , female circumcision, fatwahs, a return to the Califate?
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:23 AM Flag-
OP here: not all. There are female goddess religions, ancient ones and some contemporary ones. the Abrahamic religions are misogynistic, though. PS There are many goddesses in Indian (Hindu) religions
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:51 AM FlagInteresting. But women in India don't have good lives. That's for sure. But religion is still made up nonsense though.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:54 AM FlagThat's hard to say that women don't have good lives in India, or anywhere. There is research that purports to show that religious people are happier than secular. As you can probably immediately see, there is a lot of controversy as to how exactly one measures happiness. And is happiness the ultimate good? To me it is. To traditional societies - an individual's happiness is probably not so important.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:56 AM Flag
Is widespread ignorance not reason enough? We're not talking about millenia of highly educated masses. Most people throughout history have been illiterate or barely literate. Fear is a powerful tool for manipulating people.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:13 AM FlagNP: I humbly say that there are millions of Christians (for example) that are educated and literate. Just sayin'. I'm a born-again Christian and followed Hitchens' writings, watch Bill Maher (but don't agree) and read the Atlantic. I mean some of us aren't all dummies.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:17 AM FlagI don't think you are all dummies. But I do think that a lack of education for the masses is a major explanation for how & why religion got to this point. People, without science and enlightenment, clung to myths, stories, etc. to explain "the inexplicable." Now they are just deeply embedded in cultures. I do respect intelligent people of faith, but I also have a hard time with it myself. Most importantly, faith should be a private matter. It's the intrusion in civil discourse and secular life that both me. Your personal faith, relationship with god, beliefs about the afterlife, and whatever else gets you through the day is all good by me.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:22 AM Flag
OP: And I don't believe in any of the gods that exist or have existed (I teach Comparative Religion) What I do believe is humans have a need for community, belonging, purpose, leaders, inspiration, answers to difficult questions. Some of those things have been answered in some ways by gods or demi-gods or gurus or religions or practices or writings. Yes ignorance and suspicion and wacky doctrine and tribalism need to be criticized and done away with. BTW I suspect people will always tend to be easily manipulated by fear; whether it is dear of hell, or fear of 'the other' - it's a great tool to control the masses
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:22 AM FlagAgreed. It is just my hope that in the 21st century and beyond rational people can find all of those things w/o the crutch of religion. But I am very open to and respectful of various forms of spirituality. It's just that there is so much about organized religion that rubs me the wrong way.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:25 AM FlagWhat worries me the most is the credulity that is demanded by so many faith systems. It's so interesting. I wonder if the incredible stories (such as coming back to life, the Joseph Smith Golden Tablets, just pick any, they are all colorful) serve to in a way infantilize the believer, to make them doubt their own senses and intelligence, so they can be easily led. It's a kind of mind castration, I guess
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:34 AM Flag
NP: all that you say makes sense, but I'm telling you God is real. That is why this crazy religion has been around for thousands of years. None of it makes sense but it all makes sense. I can't really explain it, its something you may experience one day.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:31 AM Flag-
The parts that make sense are: we like myths. The structure of myth appeals very much to us. We also like narrative - it is intuitively accessible, and stories are natural to us. We like commonality and community and shared purpose. Christianity seems to be particularly flexible and that is why there are thousands of versions of it and that is more likely the reason it is still around*, not because there is any truth to its supernatural claims. *plus it's being the religion of the conquering peoples (politically or economically)
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:50 AM FlagNP: this all makes sense on paper but I can tell you born agains like myself have honestly and truly experienced God outside of our minds. Seperately, the bible is too specific and too cross-referenced to be myth.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 08:58 AM FlagOh dear. Well I could debate you if you want. In short, you have had an emotional experience, and generalized it to some external agent. BTW all of your claims are made by those of other religions who believe just as sincerely as you do
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:03 AM FlagNP: ok well I certaily don't want to debate. I see your point of view as clear as day. What happened to me was unexpected but I'm happy. I used to be agnostic (my mom is agnostic and my dad is militant atheist) but I found myself with Jesus as a total suprise! :)
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:08 AM FlagI'm glad you're happy. My sister is BAC but she is not obnoxious about it (neither are you! don't mean to imply that) She has no problem with my views. I just am not an enabler as far as her beliefs in magical things. But it's not an issue, really, we love each other any more than something like that would ever be a threat to
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:12 AM FlagBTW please don't let the Bible literalists twist your mind into a pretzel. The Bible (you really better study its history and origins) presents a weird amalgam of writings, poems, myths, propaganda, etc. Be careful of the churchy people's emotional manipulations, and the incoherence of Christian doctrine; stay intellectually honest and mentally sound! All the best.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:17 AM FlagNP: Althought I am a BAC I am not a fundamentalist at all! I'm too NY for that. LOL.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:25 AM FlagYay! Good for you. Fundies are some of the most unhappy people I've ever known, so depressed because they believe they are sinful and fallen and horrible and hell-bound, etc. A very very bleak view of the world. So sad. Curious though - how do you view the Bible then?
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:30 AM FlagNP: Firstly I view the Old Testament as Jewish scripture so a precedent has already been set so I defer to Jewish teachings. The New Testament I view as historically, first, and then philosophicaly, second. Most so called Christians don't even read the bible (which should be read cover to cover to fully put the pieces together). Studying the bible is a life long eneavor and you have to stay humble when you study it. But that's it in a nutshell.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:34 AM Flag
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This. This is an excellent response. Religion are for the ignorant and the fearful. They are for those who long to subject themselves.
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 02:46 PM Flag
religions developed to give order to society. Hitchens made outrageous statements to start the dialogue. Lighten up
[ Reply | More ]02.17.12, 09:36 AM Flag
[+] Spinoff of 'having a newborn is hard to some....'i am due in the spring and many are ... 44 replies
- books but we wanted someone to show us what to do. I saved for it (costs over $200 a day for 24 hours) but it was worth it. We didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl and are jewish so we wanted someone to help us with the circumcision (and she did). If I had a girl, I would have been happy if she left on day 9, but as it was, I was happy to have her for 12 days....
Talk : : February 08, 2012
Spinoff of 'having a newborn is hard to some....'i am due in the spring and many are telling me that I need a baby nurse. Do I??? Or will DH and I be just fine with some help from my mom? How long do people even have baby nurses for?
44 replies [ Reply | Watch | More02.08.12, 05:39 PM Flag ]Do you want one? Maybe you should have one lines up in case you want her, but don't hire her in advance, if that's possible. The hormones that are foing to be coursing through your body for weeks and weeks are going to be making a lot of decisions for you. I wanted skin-on-skin contact with my baby as much as possible and a baby nurse couldn't have pried DB from me with a crowbar. If you find that you do want one, I'd say three months, four maximum. And she would be best put to use at night. Are you going to BF? My husband fed DB expressed breastmilk for one feeding every night which allowed me a three-hour stretch of sleep every night. She could do this for you.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:46 PM FlagI had a baby nurse. I loved being able to skip one feeding (between pumping and some supplimenting) and having someone to show me what to do. DH and I had taken the classes and read the books but we wanted someone to show us what to do. I saved for it (costs over $200 a day for 24 hours) but it was worth it. We didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl and are jewish so we wanted someone to help us with the circumcision (and she did). If I had a girl, I would have been happy if she left on day 9, but as it was, I was happy to have her for 12 days.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:46 PM Flag-
you don't need a baby nurse. it would be helpful for you to have someone help you take care of the house. DH and I had no help. The way we operated was, it was my job to take care of the baby and his job to take care of me... so I took care of all late night duty, etc, and then on weekends when he was not working, he did all of the cooking and shopping for the week so that i would have what i needed.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:47 PM Flagyou don't need a baby nurse. I am disabled (lots of chronic medical-painful issues) and I did it. Not patting myself on the back but if I could do it with what I have to deal with, you can do it. NOW if you have twins and or have a c-section you may want one but I think if you have a DH that is supportive...you don't need a nurse.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:47 PM FlagI am the OP here. I am just inquiring... I am a very capable person, and grew up with a hard working mom. When i questioned getting one, my sister yelled at me and told me to be a woman. Friends are telling me how I will need one, how they are necessary and helpful and will teach me things. I dont nevessarily want to spend the money and
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:49 PM Flag...and i think i will be able to handle it all. Side note.... Dh will be with me for the first two weeks and then i will be without him the following 6 weeks, so i am thinking of staying out by my parents for a bit or having mom come to me for a week and vica versa.... Dont know!
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:51 PM Flagor: then you do as you want. You asked if you needed it? No one NEEDS them but many do like it. I personally am the type of person that likes to do things for myself. Maybe because that's how my mom was and maybe because of my disability I like to prove to myself that I won't let anything hold me back. This is a personal decision for you and your dh. Don't listen to your friends
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:52 PM FlagHaving a hard working mom has nothing to do with it. Is anyone going to really help you in the beginning. YOu will be in pain. If you can afford it get one for a week and see how it goes. I felt the same way as you and when my nurse left I cried so did my dh.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:52 PM Flagor: don't tell her she WILL be in pain. I had 3 kids and I wasn't in pain. Sure there's discomfort but why wouldn't there be. You just pushed a human out of your vagina. You may have needed help in the beginning but there are many of us out there that were truly ok doing it on their own with the help of their spouse or with no one
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:55 PM Flag
Get a nurse if you can afford it. I am due with number 2 and I am getting one. Don;t forget you need time to relax and adjust too. Giving birth is a major stress on your body and you are in pain afterwards even if you have a vaginal birth. I was in pain for a month the nurse is a life saver. It is not a necessity but a great luxury that you should look into so you can adjust into motherhood.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:48 PM Flagthe trade off for having help is that you have a stranger in your house. I would not want that.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:53 PM FlagI don't think babynurses are the norm outside of NY. I've never heard people in other places talk about them. Honestly, newborns are not really that hard, they sleep all the time. You'll be tired, but if 99+ percent of women do it so can you. And FWIW I explicity did not use any "family help" that first month because I didn't want to begin motherhood feeling like I couldn't do it on my own. I think this was one of the best decisions I made early on. Because for the next 18 years you're going to have to learn to trust your own instincts and make do, you may as well begin on day one.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:54 PM Flag-
this. Pay attention at the hospital and ask for help frm the nurses. That's enough info to start with. You can call your mom or mil or family friend with questions - they don't have to be there to help. You will be exhausted, but then you will get into a rhythm and it will get easier.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:01 PM Flag
Sure you can do it yourselves. But, if you can afford it, help makes things so much easier on you and dh. It can make the 2 weeks you're home together enjoyable, and joyous as opposed to exhausting marathon and joyous. And, once he's working again, you'll hate him less if you have help. I don't come from a family would consider using a nurse even if they could afford them. But they were far away, dh had just started his job, and db had some issues at birth. So, we got one. And she was much more helpful than family who came. Congrats and GL.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:05 PM FlagHonestly you can do it on your own with DH. But getting help doesn't hurt and makes it more comfortable and it is a very overwhelming experience. If you're mom is going to be around and help a good deal, I really think you are covered. But if you want additional help, go for it
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:11 PM Flagif you're a very confident person..someone that likes to do things on their own, you don't need a nurse. Now if you're not confident, more of a half empty person, you may lean toward getting the help. Many assume it's so stressful to have a newborn but it isn't if you're blessed with a healthy that isn't dealing with colic or allergies..you will be fine
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:14 PM FlagI did not have a nurse, but my mom came and she did things like cook and do the laundry, it was so wonderful to devote my time to my baby. She stayed two weeks and it was wonderful.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:34 PM FlagITA - much better to have a "wife" (your mom, a postpartum doula) who will be there to help YOU than someone who is there to deal with your baby. You will want to bond with and care for your baby in your own way, but it will be nice to have someone who is there to help you.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:40 PM FlagSame. Did not have or need a baby nurse but thanks to my mom I could totally focus on baby. She shopped, cooked and cleaned and pretty much took care of everything and let me bond with ds.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:45 PM Flag
I didn't want anyone else but me taking care of my newborn. I can't imagine letting someone hold and rock and feed my new sweet baby. You will be just fine and will love every minute of it.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:38 PM Flag
[+] Just looking for anecdotal experience about caring for an uncircumcised DS. Hygiene i... 74 replies
- OP: Your DS isn't circumcised?...
- I had boys and decided not to have them circumcised, I would appreciate moral support....
- OP didn't ask for idiotic guesses about whether circumcision caused UTIs. She asked about cleaning....
- .the AAP position statement. The only confirmed benefit of circumcision is decreased urinary tract infections. This is most...
Talk : : February 08, 2012
Just looking for anecdotal experience about caring for an uncircumcised DS. Hygiene is really my only concern - I'm not looking for other pros/cons about circ/uncirc. Baby due in a few months and (uncir'd) DH and I are making a decision on what to do. Is it any more difficult or no big deal?
74 replies [ Reply | Watch | More02.08.12, 01:47 PM Flag ]My son is almost 3 and it has yet to be a problem. Had one old school pediatrician say to clean foreskin with alcohol and a swab and subsequent doctor has told us no special cleaning is necessary and that he will clue me in when it is. We are about to schedule 3 year old check up next month and I will ask again.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 01:54 PM FlagMore difficult now and in the future but if its important to no circumcise than it will be worth the extra work. If you could care less either way than the work might not be worth it.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 01:54 PM FlagA recent Brown University Medical School magazine article extols the virtues of circumcision as a disease preventative.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 01:59 PM FlagOP: As I said above, I'm just wondering about penis care and hygiene. I'm aware of the other pros and cons.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:03 PM FlagI agree. When the men are sexually active, I don't want them to increase their chances of catching something.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:04 PM FlagNP. And why make it harder for teen boys and college guys to clean themselves? Boys can be really not great at hygiene when they're young. My husband talks about how he used to never brush his teeth in college or do laundry often enough. Yuck! Then again, this is a more metrosexual generation than my stinky brothers and DH grew up in.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:09 PM FlagAlso about hygiene but as babies -- I bathed my son daily religiously and would be careful to clean daily under the remaining bit of foreskin (he's circumcised) and STILL for the first couple years he kept getting sticky/gunky there and getting adhesions. Meaning I'd have to really tug and pull it apart right after a long soak in the bath leaving it red and sensitive and it would hurt him sometimes. I kept thinking wow, must be really difficult for cleaning uncircumcised babies.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:14 PM Flag
Yes, higher incidence of AIDS and other STDs with non-circumcision. Wonder if it is any higher, however than a woman's already higher risk? My son's father did not want him circumcised because as someone with eczema the circumcision scar made his rashes much worse -- weird reason, but that's why we did not do it, and now my son does have eczema as well.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:07 PM Flag
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Yes, that's most of the reason why we went the circ route - an African study about HIV transmission was terminated early b/c the results were so overwhelming about circ adults being far less likely to contract it. But at any rate, many docs leave a "fringe" now - I've been told everything up to and including they'll grow into it and will make their erect penises longer later in life, which is hardly my concern now - but point is, you'll still have a halo of skin to clean smegma from.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:18 PM Flag
I don't have a son, but I am from Europe and nobody gets circumcised there, except for religious reasons (very few people). I have never heard of problems.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:14 PM Flagbut you have absolutely nothing to help the OP on this point. so instead of pushing some weird agenda why don't you help out OP?
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:25 PM Flagnp: I'm in the same situation as OP (boy due in a few months and debating whether to circ) and I found this response to be helpful. It puts things into perspective when you remember that entire continents of people are uncircumcised and are fine.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:28 PM FlagOP: Agree. My DH is from Europe and he's uncirc'd as most men are there, but I'd like to hear this from someone other than him, seems he might be biased...
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:30 PM FlagPP: well your dh is right on this one. Don't fall for the hysteria, people have to justify having done this. Esp if there's no religious call for it. My dh is circed but, after looking into it, did not want it for ds. Hygiene is only an issue if you have an ignorant ped. If you're unsure, let your child decide for himself when he's older. Yes it would be painful, but he probably wont want to lose it. And if he does, there are meds for pain.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 03:12 PM Flag
if there was a problem with hygene for say, someone's 6 yr old boy, you wont hear about it. I agree that studies and the medical community have said there arent problems, but i wont take the fact that none of my friends ever mentioned it to me to mean that there arent any.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:42 PM Flag
NP. WTF with the "weird agenda"?? Several crazy pro-choppers are on here acting as if a foreskin sets a boy up for a lifetime of dick cheese, infections, and misery, which is a flagrant lie. This poster is pointing out that mysteriously, in populations where people are not trying to defend their stupid socially inherited medical procedures, these problems don't exist. You are the only one with an agenda.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 07:06 PM Flag
Coming from Europe I find circumcision a very strange thing to do. DS had to be circumcised for medical reasons but he wouldn't have been otherwise.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 02:41 PM FlagPlease be aware that ped's here can be misinformed on the best way to care for an intact penis. Anyone, ped or otherwise, who advises you to retract the DB's foreskin for cleaning is wrong. Don't do this. I learned from experience after following my DS's ped's advice. Also, as your DS grows, you never have to worry about releasing the penis from the foreskin. If the foreskin doesn't release on it's own before puberty, your son will take care of that himself when he begins masturbating. So do not follow the bad advice (again from my ped) to try to retract the skin every day dor DB. It's unnecessary and painful and if it doesn't happen you will not need to have a dr do it later on. We have had no hygiene issue ever with my 3.5yo's intact penis.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 04:40 PM FlagOmg we had a ped dr who was hell bent on retracting. I was so angry when she did this to him on check up. He was screaming in pain for a day. Needless to say we switched drs.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 04:57 PM FlagNot to be mean, but have you considered that possibly he was screaming because his penis and foreskin had been caked together with smegma that mommy and daddy didn't clean out, for heaven's sake?
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:21 PM Flagnp. not to be mean, but you're a moron. If a pediatrician pried your baby's fingernail up from the nail bed with the justification that you needed to clean under the nail, would you think that was reasonable? The foreskin of an uncircumcised baby's penis is NORMALLY attached to the glans. Eventually it will begin to detach on its own, and THEN the parent or child will need to worry about cleaning under there, but that can take years.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 07:54 PM Flag
My MD FIL said a few adult male patients needed to be circ'd as grown men due to recurrent bladder infections. I have no idea if that was due to hygiene, though, and may be worth speaking with your ped about so as to know what to do differently. My FIL was very pro circ b/c of this experience with his patients but he may have a very narrow (and not overall correct) view?
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:15 PM FlagI don't think there's much special care required - especially as an infant. I will say that we did circ because I know 4 adult men who needed to get snipped as adults and it was very painful. People say this is uncommon - maybe it's a crazy coincidence. Culturally, it's not common for us, so I do know many un circ men too. But 4 is a lot!
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:18 PM FlagOp: thanks for all your responses, they're helpful and some of them made me literally lol, a lot. I haven't heard the word shmegma for a while...
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 05:44 PM FlagSeriously, OP, people get hysterical when they hear that you decided not to unnecessarily chop off part of your kid's body. I think they are insecure about their own decisions. My uncircumcised son has never required extra care. (Somehow men all over the world manage to keep themselves clean and alive with a foreskin.)
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:47 PM Flag
My first DS was circ'd at 1 day old. No problems. We didn't circa the second. He had UTIs at two months old and at 7 months old. We had him circ'd at 10 months old. Much harder to take care of it while it's healing at that age.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 06:48 PM FlagHysterical fear-mongering. You are probably lying, and if not, I don't know what was wrong with your kid, but having a foreskin should not be causing multiple UTIs in infancy. Somehow humanity has endured despite a minority of the male population getting their foreskins lopped off.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 07:02 PM Flag
physician stance: cleaning is similar to the level of cleaning involved in other parts of body (ie hair, ears, toes). Many of the other posters are passing off common misconceptions. I would not worry about the cleaning- it is minimal. But please locate the AAP position statement. The only confirmed benefit of circumcision is decreased urinary tract infections. This is most notably in the firs 6 mos. of life but has slight significance up to age 5. All other things being equal (as far as STD prevalence, cancer risk etc.) there is no solid evidence that circumcision lowers the risk for STDs or penile cancer - (Behrman et. al. AAP Task Force on Circumcision)
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 08:03 PM Flagour DS is almost 2 and we have not had any issues so far. DH, though circumcised himself, was adamant about not circumcising DS at birth, and i was inclined to agree because it seemed cruel to do to a baby (watch the videos if you are on the fence!) it turns out that most of the other parents of boys in our circle have also chosen not to circumcise. it is about 50/50 nationwide but i have the feeling in a more granola type circle like ours, in SF, there are more non-circumcised boys.
[ Reply | More ]02.08.12, 09:33 PM FlagI just asked about it at my (uncirc'd) son's 2.5 year checkup. The pediatrician thought it looked fine as far as hygiene, and I've never done anything special to clean it. DS usually plays with it a bit in the bathtub, which seems to get it clean enough. At this point, the foreskin retracted easily when the Dr. checked him (she hadn't done it before).
[ Reply | More ]02.09.12, 12:43 AM FlagThe American Academy of Pediatrics puts out a pamphlet about care for the intact penis. Essentially no special care. I'm sure that you could get it. Me 3 sons no circ. No problems. Come from large family with many brothers all not circ'd only problem as adults was 1 of them got a yeast infection from his girlfriend. A little cream and all was fine.
[ Reply | More ]02.09.12, 04:26 AM Flag
[+] Does St. David's give any preference to baptized Catholics (but no church affiliation... 21 replies
- Not about falsifying religion. Why don't you pretend to be Jewish and apply to a great Jewish school? If you have a dd, no problem. You may have to circumcise DB if he isn't, but hey, what's wrong ith stretching the truth?...
Talk : : January 23, 2012
Does St. David's give any preference to baptized Catholics (but no church affiliation)? If we went to church regularly would that make a difference (not planning on doing this, just wondering)
21 replies [ Reply | Watch | More01.23.12, 01:28 PM Flag ]No. But if you and dh went to Catholic Schools that might help.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 01:30 PM Flag-
I think if you tell them that a catholic education is what you are looking for and can back it up with the fact that you've btdt it will help. That said it is really going to be about your ds and if they like you. At our pre-school last year very catholic latin family got dinged. They really wanted it.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 01:35 PM Flag
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Sure, lie bout your relationship to God in order to get into school.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 01:38 PM Flag-
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Please. Like people don't stretch the truth when they apply to other ongoings.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 01:57 PM FlagNot about falsifying religion. Why don't you pretend to be Jewish and apply to a great Jewish school? If you have a dd, no problem. You may have to circumcise DB if he isn't, but hey, what's wrong ith stretching the truth?
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 02:23 PM FlagOP: Why am I falsifying my religion? I was raised Catholic - went to church, baptized and confirmed Catholic, married in a Catholic church and my DC was baptized Catholic. What am I lying about?
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 05:54 PM Flag-
I'm lying about the religion that I was raised? I am lying about my DC's baptism and that I chose to get married in a Catholic church? You think I chose those things to get my DC into St David's so for the past 30 something years I've lived my life to get my DC into St. David's? Makes sense.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 06:19 PM Flag
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gaming the system always becomes clear enough. all of a sudden you want a catholic education but your actions don't bear it out? or you suddenly start going to mass and join a church after years of not going? these folks are pros -- highly doubt this could work for people who have likely seen every trick in the book.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 02:25 PM FlagOP: Did you read my question? I said I wasn't planning on starting to go to church but I was just wondering. You think people don't try and join Grace Church to get into the school? That's why the policy is that you don't get preference unless you've been a member of the Church for 3 or 5 years.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 05:56 PM Flagof course I read your question, as well as all the responses in the thread (and your responses to the responses), which is why I answered as I did. you're trying to find an advantage that just isn't there, and that won't be there no matter how you try to dress it up. but good luck to you anyway.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 06:14 PM FlagI am asking if this is an advantage. I am wondering if other people have an advantage and if I have an advantage. It is Catholic, I think it's a fair question. Some nursery schools give preference to Church members, why is is unreasonable to assume that St. David's wouldn't give preference to Catholics since it's a Catholic school? I didn't baptize my DC and get married in a Catholic church to get my DC into St. David's. I didn't get my confirmation to get my DC into St. David's.
[ Reply | More ]01.23.12, 06:17 PM Flag
[+] Could you ever live in Rome? 46 replies
- Only the American sheep circumcise their children....
Talk : : January 07, 2012
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I did for a year. Absolutely loved it, would return in a heartbeat.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:05 PM FlagAre Italians racist? My black friend says yes (he's never even been there). Want to move with him. Just got a divorce and need a fresh start with 1 y/o. Want a huge change, temporary perhaps. And he's gay so there is nothing going on between us in case you're wondering.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:13 PM FlagFunny you should ask. I'd say yes, a bit, based on my experience: DH is from Slcily and while we lived in Rome people occasionally made racist comments to him along the lines of "go back to Africa" etc. He laughed it off but it was odd. I'd say it wouldn't be my first choice if I were black. Also avoid France, for sure. How about holland?
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:16 PM FlagFrance is racist? Black bff lived there for a year and he had to practically run away from the guys who were all over him. He made tons of friends and loved it. I don't think I want to live in Paris though. I want to move where he's going because I'm an emotional mess right now and he's so much help and is moving back to Europe so i'll end up in the same city as him initially. Holland sounds intriguing...never been there.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:22 PM FlagParis isn't racist. Snooty, yes. The exurbs of Paris have riots but they're mostly class riots, not race riots.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:32 PM FlagIt's very xenophobic and anti-immigrant, and since the immigration is largely African and Muslim and other darker skinned races, I think anti immigrant and racist starts to bleed together for me.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:39 PM FlagThough younger people are not really like this. Older people, more likely. But if your friend is gay you'll probably want to live in Trastevere and it is very gay-friendly there. And it's the best part of town, so you'll only leave to go to the center, which is a 10 minute walk, the ghetto, and other central parts.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:44 PM Flag
I'm the "7 months" poster below and I would have to concur. My experience is now almost 20 years old, but I mentioned I am not white in my post below before I saw this whole string of questions about racism because I do feel it made a difference, whereas I don't feel it is a factor to whether I can make friends in NYC.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:24 PM Flag
You are thinking of taking dc to ROme? Away from ex? Will court allow?
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:17 PM Flag-
np: yes, Romans are racist, but not any more than Americans. Their racism stems from a lack of diversity in their culture until very recently coupled with a right wing government when immigration started. Generally, they don't like Africans, but they like black Americans just fine. There is a big rap scene in Rome. Also, there's a pretty good gay scene, too.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:21 PM Flagwould expect countryside italy to be more "racist", but I would expect a big city like Rome to be more sophisticated. I wouldn't describe NYC as racist at all.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:23 PM FlagRome is a bunch of small towns (neighborhoods called reoni) right next to each other. As in, they all have a small town mentailty. Romans are more sophisticated than people from the countryside, but it's not like nyc. They are really ignorant aabout and racist towards Jews, and this reminds me of places in the US that have no Jews so people just assume the stereotypes are real.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:33 PM Flag"7 mo" poster below again -- I say, sadly, that despite being a big city, Rome is not all that sophisticated in my experience. Again, almost 2 decades old. Italy in general is provincial and pretty homogeneous, but there is immigration of mostly service workers, and racism. Weirdly, I found Venice the least problematic of the cities I lived in (I lived in Italy for a full year). No one is native to Venice, everyone is from somewhere else, so the community if more open and warm and sooo charming. You have to be a romantic to appreciate a crumbling, decaying city built on water, but if you are, it is a fantastic place to escape for a year to rediscover yourself. IMHO
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:33 PM Flag
Italians are racist. I grew up in the South, so it's hard to shock me, but have black (African) friend that grew up in Rome, and his experiences are worse than anything I have seen in the South. getting harassed by police. Harassed by men in bars if he speaks to a white woman. Being asked if he can get drugs CONSTANTLY. We saw each other at the wedding of an Italian mutual friend (this is a big money family wedding, too) and saw him get approached asking if he was the drug dealer at least 10 times. it became a running joke. Africans tend to be able to laugh this stuff off because the perpetrators are just totally ignorant, but American blacks are happy to get confrontational (as in the US this is trampling on one's rights) when there is apparent racism. Your friend may be in for a lot of conflict.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:46 PM Flag
I did it for 7 months the year after i graduated from college, so didn't go as part of a program. I am glad I did it but I was lonely for a lot of it, despite having met friends. I am American but not white. I fell into the embassy and ex-pat crowd. But I grew up middle class in outer-borough NYC, so I felt out of my league with the embassy kids. I think if you have the language skills and feel a rapport with the Italians who live there, it could be fantastic. I remain friends with one woman who lives there now and though she's from the American South, Rome is her true home.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:20 PM FlagOP, I would not move to Rome in this economic environment. No one has any idea what is going to happen to Italy in the next year. The currency might collapse, the government has collapsed, there will be so many strikes and shutdowns, and if it withdraws from the euro.... Social unrest, businesses shutting down, mass strikes! Italy is too unstable, in a much worse way than the US has been in these past years.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 08:44 PM FlagNo because most Italians I know are racist and they are American Italians.
[ Reply | More ]01.07.12, 09:20 PM FlagI lived in rome for 16 months, until mid 2006 and i go back every year for a total of 3-4 months. Yes, Italians are a bit racist, but I think it is mainly because they are a group that has not had much exposure to other nationalities. The Africans sell handbags on the streets, the albanians are mostly gypsies that take advantage/live off of the Italian govt and people, the philipinos/dominicans are the housekeepers, etc. So they are not quite used to a mix of people playing equal roles within their society, as we are in NY (i know we are not all from NY, but you get my point).
[ Reply | More ]01.08.12, 06:16 AM FlagAbove poster. Also need to add that Italians are not racist to Jews.... Just ignorant. They think the only ones that circumsize are Jewish people so its kind of funny when I tell them that everyone I know in America is circumsized! All in alll, Rome is a very laid back, relaxing ounrty, with low levels of stress. i enjoy going there and come back to NYC a much improved person. Additionally, I will be moving there permanently this summer and I can't wait! As for a black man moving to Rome, you will be fine and you will enjoyit.
[ Reply | More ]01.08.12, 06:19 AM Flag
[+] Due in 8 weeks w 1st DB and confused about baby clothes: When I take baby home from ... 9 replies
- No. The circumcision is entirely protected by the diaper, and the belly seems just fine. I don't think it hurts them at all. It's just crusty and has to fall off. No worries. For newborn soft clothes, some of my fave brands are Under the...
Talk : : January 02, 2012
Due in 8 weeks w 1st DB and confused about baby clothes: When I take baby home from hospital and after circumcision, does he wear a sleep gown ONLY (bc of belly button and circ. bandage) for those first couple of weeks? Do I want the kind that closes around feet completely or that just scrunches around legs? What about kimonos? What do they put him in in the hospital? Can I bring my own first outfit?
9 replies [ Reply | Watch | More01.02.12, 08:00 PM Flag ]You can bring an outfit to take DB home - bring a few sizes.. They put them in a diaper and side-snap shirt or one that ties - those are easiest for the first few weeks because you change diapers constantly - but honestly, anything is fine.. A side-snap shirt, diaper, and blanket is completely fine for the first month - footy PJs or gowns are fine too. Whatever you like.
[ Reply | More ]01.02.12, 08:04 PM FlagFor both DS and DD, I did a very nice homecoming gown, very traditional looking, with hat or bonnet, from Bergdorf's, but I'm crazy like that. I'm very sentimental, "want to pass it down" type person. In terms of what they wear after that, you are not limited to gowns by any means. Have on hand some gowns (doesn't matter how much they "scrunch", and some footed pajamas, for sure. Both of those are very comfy and helpful to have around the house especially. Gown are great for nighttime, because it is verrrrry nice not to have to fumble with snaps in the middle of the night. Plan to have newborn size to start. I could never just have a baby in a diaper and a t-shirt--they always seemed undressed and cold to me (and I had summer babies!). I always put them in footed jammies or gowns at least at home, and outfits when we left the house.
[ Reply | More ]01.02.12, 08:09 PM Flagthanks-- so you didn't find footed bottoms too taught against the healing areas-- belly and crotch?
[ Reply | More ]01.02.12, 08:15 PM FlagNo. The circumcision is entirely protected by the diaper, and the belly seems just fine. I don't think it hurts them at all. It's just crusty and has to fall off. No worries. For newborn soft clothes, some of my fave brands are Under the Nile (2 piece kimono tops and pants are great), L'oved Baby (gowns), Carter's (footed pajamas, onuses, pants), Tea Collection (everything), Gap (everything). Oh, and in terms of pants, for the newborn days, I actually really liked the Carter's roomy comfy pants, because they were so easy to pull up and down, and so soft and comfy for the babies. You can pair them with all kinds of cute onesies from other brands you like, and they go with everything. NB size.
[ Reply | More ]01.02.12, 08:21 PM Flag
snap front undershirts from carters. those are much easier to put on compared to regular onsies that go over the head esp for newborns. then any zipfront outfit over that. if i could do it all over again i would get all zipfront clothing for newborns...i was so tired after birth...snapping all those buttons 10x a day..and in the middle of the night...don't miss those days...
[ Reply | More ]01.02.12, 09:39 PM FlagBring a few first outfits! Our baby spit up all over his as he was getting changed. Our baby just lived in onesies and footed sleepers for the first months, with sleep gowns at night (for ease of changing while half-asleep). Don't worry too much about it -- just picking something soft, comfortable, and easy to take on and off.
[ Reply | More ]01.03.12, 06:22 AM Flagi wouldn't get too many newborn clothes for going out...most of mine went back to the store or were never worn. really didn't get to go out much with the lack of sleep & constant feeding. footed one piece PJs were the most useful. i prefer the ones with feet because socks always slip off during sleep or are too tight.
[ Reply | More ]01.03.12, 06:31 AM Flag
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If you don't have a religious reason, there's no medical reason to.
[ Reply | More ]12.27.11, 07:09 PM FlagITA. No good reason to do it, so why do it? Women our age might be used to circed ones, but women ds's age will be used to uncirced.
[ Reply | More ]12.27.11, 07:23 PM Flag-
I have a DD and an uncirc'ed DS (I'm the "yup" poster above). Bet it won't bother her at all. Hell, I spent my junior year in Europe, and my preference is solidly for whichever type of weenie is attached to the best guy. It is seriously no big deal to look at a tiny extra bit of skin, so why not leave the poor little guys be.
[ Reply | More ]12.27.11, 07:59 PM FlagI agree. Try to imagine the genders swapped--would you cut off even a nonessential part of your baby daughter's labia because some men might find its presence aesthetically distasteful? Hell no. Would you say "My poor son!" at the thought of him having sex with a woman who had not been surgically altered at birth? No, not unless you were really nasty. So how about extending the same POV to boys.
[ Reply | More ]12.27.11, 08:36 PM Flag
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[+] People from other countries think we're bizarre for getting epidurals and c-sections ... 35 replies
- I'm waiting for the stretched neck thing to become grounds for asylum, like female circumcision and the one-child policy in China....
Talk : : December 19, 2011
People from other countries think we're bizarre for getting epidurals and c-sections like it's no big deal. Just sayin'.
35 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.19.11, 09:37 AM Flag ]depends on the country. some have higher c/s rates than we do.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 09:42 AM Flag-
Central American countries. African countries. European countries. They all prefer midwife-assisted birth and no drugs unless there is a problem with labor, which doesn't happen there as much as here.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 09:54 AM FlagRe European countries, Italy has a higher Csection rate than the US, as does Australia (not Europe of course). Germany and Ireland are right below us. Latin American countries are also high in Csections and China is close to 50% of all births.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:08 AM FlagRe Latin American countries - C-section rates in all eight countries surveyed earlier by WHO were 30 percent or higher — similar to the U.S. rate. In Paraguay, 42 percent of deliveries were by cesarean, and in Ecuador 40 percent.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:17 AM FlagAnd re Africa - That compares to an earlier WHO survey of African countries, where C-sections were performed in only about 9 percent of deliveries surveyed and where many medical centers were ill-equipped to perform emergency surgeries, leading to increased deaths.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:18 AM Flag
African countries prefer no drugs? That's funny, I thought they were not really in a position to get any assistance whatsoever.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:18 AM Flag
Very few people are getting c sections like it is no big deal. I have never met anyone who had a purely elective C
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 09:55 AM FlagDo they wait until their 40+ to have their children? Also a friend delivered unexpectedly in the DR and she said it was horrendous. She labored and labored, had to have emergency C/S in the end, and said there was barely any nursing staff around to assist her. Not sure we'd trade all that for a lower c/s rate.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:06 AM FlagYou're basing your opinions on labor in other countries because one woman you know gave birth unexpectedly in the DR and it didn't go well? Most women around the industrialized and modern world have some sort of prenatal care or at least go see a doctor and don't just go to the ER when they go into labor. I'm sure that women who are here on vacation and go into labor and do not have a doctor don't have the greatest birth experience. And it's probably super expensive, too.
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:15 AM FlagNo--they don't have roaches walking down the walls and other things. Yes, I'd rather give birth in the US vs. a more primitive setting. My friend is an OB that goes to third world countries on missions to help women who might otherwise die in childbirth. Frustrating for her that they lack a lot of things like sterile conditions. I had both my births by c/s (wanted natural) and I'm damned greatful my kids are alive and not suffering b/c of complications. Both had issues that were not related to a doctor wanting a quick delivery or my needing a scheduled event. It's so easy to say the rest of the world is doing it the right way, but I'll take our health care system over Europe (ds was there for study abroad and he has a lot of intense medical needs--he didn't have a specialist on call like he does here--would take months for him to book and that's true for the average citizen of the EU as well--not just b/c he was visiting.).
[ Reply | More ]12.19.11, 10:20 AM Flag
[+] if you have had a DS in the last year or 2, have you circumcised? 55 replies
- a tough time later on if we don't circumcise?...
- time in school later on, if he isn't circumcised?...
- have no dog in this fight. I didn't circumcise my son because my DH didn't want to.... a guy who wanted to, I would have circumcised, since my parents opted for my brother and...
- ^^^MD mom here: circumcision has no medical advantage so decided not to...
Talk : : December 09, 2011
if you have had a DS in the last year or 2, have you circumcised?
55 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.09.11, 12:12 PM Flag ]OP: will DS have a tough time later on if we don't circumcise?
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:19 PM Flag-
This is not true. the statistics are very much race and ethnicity dependent, both in the US (for example, CA has very low rates, both bc of immigration from Asia where it's less prevalent and a less traditional environment socially and politically). Even ignoring these issues, a 55-65% rate is not *rare* http://kidshealth.org/parent/system/surgical/circumcision.html.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:24 PM Flag
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Yes - ds had prenatal hydronephronsis (enlarged kidney) which increases risk of UTIs so it was much healthier for him to do so. I am Jewish and we probably would have circ'd anyway but that sealed the deal.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:24 PM Flagand btw it was totally fine. dr used numbing cream, it took a second, dc barely noticed. the multiple blood draws for jaundice on the other hand, he screamed his baby head off and it was horrible.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:26 PM FlagSo did my son, lots of boys are born w this, still, no need for this procedure, sorry to say. A Jewish doctor will tell you otherwise. My son is 4 and his hydronephrosis is gone, never had a uti or any other type of problem. Let's chop our breasts off to prevent cancer...
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 04:26 PM Flag
No. Judging from what I see at his older sister's daycare, he won't have a problem, since none of the boys in his class are, except one whose mom is Israeli.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:24 PM Flag-
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np:oh c'mon. it isn't that strange to see naked children in day care. Why does everybody have to make it sounds dirty?
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:34 PM Flagshe is saying she sees ALL of them? how can she know about all of them? i would see kids getting changed and just not register this fact
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:36 PM FlagThere's six boys in the class- the kids have all been together since about age 5 mos. I know them all and know their families really well. The point is- most are European and Asian, so it's not that unsual that they didn't circ. Personally, I have no dog in this fight. I didn't circumcise my son because my DH didn't want to. Had I married a guy who wanted to, I would have circumcised, since my parents opted for my brother and I didn't see it as an uncommon practice.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:40 PM Flag
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My high school bf wasn't, it occurred to recently that may have been the reason I got BV so many times. Well that and the fact that he was a dirty 16-year-old stoner who didn't shower enough. Maybe I'm just justifying the ambivalence I feel because my husband is insisting on it.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 04:36 PM FlagPp. Also, husband is european and prefers we do not circumsize. If taught how to properly use a bidet and/or keep clean his penjs, a child should not have any problems. However, i must admit, i find a circumsized penis so much more attractive, but thats what i grew up seeing (no, not when i was a little child!)
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 08:31 PM FlagNo. DS is 2.5. I thought circ was "normal" until I read up, not sure what prompted me. DH did some reading, didn't want to do it either. Cousin and her dh were planning to do it, but couldn't go through with it once their guy was born. It isn't a big deal, just be prepared that many docs are biased toward circ.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 08:32 PM Flag
[+] I've been engaged for 12 months now and getting married in July. There have been some... 132 replies
- borderline racist fiancé. I have plenty of married friends where one spouse is Catholic and the other is Jewish. They have come up with different ways of celebrating their faith (kids are Jewish, kids are Jewish but not circumcised, kids are secular, kids observe religious traditions of both extended families...
Talk : : December 08, 2011
I've been engaged for 12 months now and getting married in July. There have been some weird things that have occurred with my fiance's family and wondering what people think. For starters, I am Jewish but not religious. My fiance's family is Catholic. I was told that we would have a Catholic wedding (mass, everything) and nothing Jewish, since my fiance's family finds it offensive. I was ok with that for a while, but now it feels strange. I told my fiance that I was thinking of giving up my biglaw job and going to a smaller firm. The next weekend, I am getting a lecture from my fiance's family regarding my career. Third, we have to spend every holiday with my fiance's family. Fourth, my fiance never consulted with me regarding job placement. It was announced in front of the entire family. I felt that I should have been the first to know. Fifth, I wrote a family story regarding my sister on the wedding website and my future MIL told me that it was inappropriate and had it removed. Is this much compromise normal? I am starting to feel very scared.
132 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.08.11, 08:56 PM Flag ]i would tell fiance that you need to have serious talk and are putting off the wedding until some things get worked out. Things will only get worse if you let them, him take control of your life. I have never heard of anything so disresptectful, telling you you cannot honor your religion at your wedding???
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 08:59 PM FlagYes, I brought this up and the "family" needed to have a talk about it. The next time we visited them (we stay with them every weekend even though it's an hour drive from the city) and they decided that we could have a small ceremony of signing the ketubah the day following the wedding.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:00 PM FlagI would not agree to this, and your to be dh should not either, this is YOUR and HIS wedding, not theirs.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:02 PM FlagWell, that's the only way it works out since our wedding is on a Saturday and we can't do it on Friday or Saturday due to religious law.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:03 PM Flagif that was the real issue, then you would do it the thursday before the wedding. but no, they will not allow that because that would mean the jewish ceremony took precedence. correct?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:11 PM Flag
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Out out out. Your kids will be considered Jewish, their grandparents are likely to find that offensive. Lovely.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:07 PM FlagNp: Why would you even consider marrying him? He's doesnt want to have his own life, family. He's looking for someone to adopt into his parents family. What's wrong with you? I mean, is he the first guy you dated after losing a lot of weight or something? Do you think you're on some self-hating or revenge against parents trip? Pull yourself together OP & bail. Don't choose this nomsense.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:09 PM Flag-
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If I were you I would be a bit concerned. Look at each one of the items you just listed, and think of how it may play out in the long run. Do you want to consign yourself to never going to your family for a holiday? Never? Not even when you have dc that your family will want to see? I realize you are not religious now, and don't care too much about the wedding ceremony, but go back to the word "offensive" - do you want to marry into a family that finds your traditions offensive? What would happen if you wanted to some sort of Jewish tradition to welcome a dc into the family - even something benign like a naming ceremony? Would they find that offensive as well. I don't want to tell you things that will cause you to make rash decisions about something that you have obviously thought through many times. But I do think it is a good idea to sit down with your fiance and discuss each and every point you just told us. Please, do this for yourself.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:02 PM FlagYes, I have thought of that and I feel that a lot of this is my fault. I am not religious at all and have never made it a priority. I didn't see anything wrong with having a Catholic wedding since his family is very religious, but I also didn't anticipate how involved his family was going to be in our lives. It's crazy! His father even replaced my car with a BMW because he was embarrassed of what I was driving. It's hard to know if they are not just being super familial or controlling.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:05 PM Flagperhaps it is just "familialness" to an extreme - but that basically borders on controlling now, doesn't it? please talk to your fiance. about each and every thing you said. discuss specifically how things will occur in the future - not just now
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:08 PM Flag-
I've tried discussing it but he's very sensitive about his family. They are very close knit and anything said against them is seen as a huge insult. They are his life. I even go to their tailor now because they insisted that he's the best. It's crazy how super involved they are, but at the same time, they have the money so it's not like my life has taken a downgrade, it's been improved in a lot of ways.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:12 PM Flagthis is old-school pop psych, but can you frame the discussion using "I" statements instead if "you" statements? like, "I think that when we have dc, I'd like to have a Jewish naming ceremony. What do you/your fam think of that?" Or, "I think I'd like to sign the ketubah before the Catholic ceremony. Lets do that." Perhaps he'd be less defensive that way. Also - the money thing - that's CONTROLLING
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:14 PM Flag
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Its standard to find you MIL intrusive, but its troubling when inlaw family takes over things that should be decided by you and fiance, e.g. wedding. Given that you are already objecting to that loss of control across a number of issues, I'd say that you need a solution. Is fiance that much under their control? Who says that you have to spend every holiday with them? If you have any attachment to Judiasm or any atttachment your family which is attached to Judiaism then 'no Judiasm at the wedding because inlaws find it offensive' is a nonstarter.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:03 PM FlagHe is completely under their control. They are wealthy and bought his swank condo in the city. He keeps a BMW in the city, even though he only drives it once a month. They even have a rule that he's not allowed to have overnight guests at his place and it's rumored that the doorman keeps an eye on him. I never stayed the night at his place as a result.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:10 PM FlagOkay, either this is fake, or you are the most moronic woman alive. If this is real, call off the wedding, break up with the man-child, and go find someone else.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 05:31 AM FlagI'm not fake! His family is just very conservative and close-knit. They are very proud of being successful and I know that's why they were so upset when I mentioned to my fiance that I wanted to move on to a smaller firm. I am sick of this biglaw shit. I feel like crying every Sunday. His father told me that he would throw some business my way so that I could make partner quicker. Once I make partner, they said that I could reevaluate whether or not I want to stay. How is making partner going to make my life better? I don't know, but at the same time, I have a lot of pressure on me from my family to be successful as well. I know if I made partner, that would make them very happy.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:03 AM Flag
It's just me, but I would find all of this unacceptable. Even if your not religious, can you really kneel in front of a,statue and a priest? Also, I thought you kind of had to be Catholic to have a priest marry you. Wedding aside, making you pick his family for everything is cruel. Its like joining a cult. Do you have kids with this man? How is his family going to be then?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:04 PM FlagWe have been going to this Catholic marriage counseling thing every other weekend for the past few months. It's part of our pre-wedding requirements in order to be married by a Catholic priest. We don't have children, but his father bought me a new car.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:07 PM FlagYou've got to be freaking kidding me. A car?! So what? You owe him? This guy and his family are either killing your spirit, or you need to grow a pair. I still don't understand how a priest would agree to marry you in the first place. These people, including their son sound awful. You must in your heart know its true, otherwise you wouldn't be asking.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:14 PM Flag
Major red flags here. The fact that your fiance is letting his family have so much control and say in his life - especially at your expense - is a very bad sign. How long did you guys date before you got engaged and how old are you?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:06 PM FlagI am 30. We dated throughout college and I broke up with him because he might have cheated on me. Nothing certain, just a friend spotted him with another girl at a bar. We started dating again 3 years ago.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:08 PM Flag-
just saw your post. 30 is too old to be this controlled by your ILs-to-be. and too old to have a big elaborate wedding IMO. tell your fiancé how this all makes you feel, and tell him to grow up and stand up for you.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:12 PM FlagNot to hijack this comment, but 30 IS TOO OLD TO HAVE A BIG ELABORATE WEDDING??!!! What are we, in 1950? Where 30 is old maid territory?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:14 PM Flagno, 30 means you should have enough god damned sense to not participate in spending $70,000 on flowers, custom-printed name tags, and all the bullshit frippery that under-30s bankrupt themselves or indent themselves to parents or ILs for that special day. I would think that being 30 means you are wise enough not to spend multiple tens of thousands on a single event or to go all bridezilla about custom fabric for seat covers and shit.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:20 PM FlagSpending a lot on a wedding does not mean that you have gone Bridezilla. I don't see anything wrong with people spending tens of thousands of dollars on a wedding. I don't view a wedding budget as an indicator of intelligence. That's ridiculous.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:23 PM Flagit is such an outlandish waste of money, particularly when you're old enough to have a better idea what to do with it (e.g. down payment). or, if you're not paying for it yourself, you end up having your parents' or your ILs' version of a wedding ceremony forced down your throat.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:29 PM Flag
You just lost all legitimacy when you stated that 30 is too old for an elaborate wedding. Are you kidding?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:20 PM Flagas I said above, having a big elaborate wedding is a sign of immaturity. I can see that I have offended the bridezilla crowd.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:23 PM FlagI was never a bridezilla and I'm not myopic. I understand that there are a plethora of reasons as to why a couple would choose to have a large wedding. Strange to think that people view them as a sign of immaturity. Shows that they have a limited worldview and/or are jealous.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:27 PM Flag
I would think very hard about your relationship with your fiance and his relationship with his family, and how much he values you versus his family. In my experience, these issues only get worse, especially if you do get married and decide to have children. I don't think I could marry someone who would be so disrespectful of my views and my family.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 09:17 PM FlagOK OP: You are really the catholic one and HE and the family is jewish right? But you wanted advise that was not biased toward one religion or the other?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 10:04 PM FlagI am Catholic. My advice to you is run, run far away from the crazy, controlling family and your borderline racist fiancé. I have plenty of married friends where one spouse is Catholic and the other is Jewish. They have come up with different ways of celebrating their faith (kids are Jewish, kids are Jewish but not circumcised, kids are secular, kids observe religious traditions of both extended families .... ) .... the choices are endless, but the point is they are choices not edicts from afar. Marriage is about respect, negotiation and communication. It doesn't sound like you have that with this man. I would postpone the wedding until you can determine if that will be possible. Don't him or his family disrespect you and your heritage, you deserve better. Most importantly, if you feel scared, go with your gut.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 11:01 PM FlagI totally understand what you are saying. I feel that in some way a lot of this is my fault in the sense that I am not religious at all. My mother isn't Jewish by birth, she was also Catholic, but underwent conversion when she married my father. We even used to meet family on Christmas and exchange presents that day since everyone had it off. I didn't even become bat mitzvah. So, I think this is why he feels it's ok to just steamroll over the Jewish thing.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:15 AM Flag^^ Catholic above again. He isn't steamrolling over some random "Jewish thing", he is steamrolling over you. It doesn't matter if you have been particularly observant up until this point, what matters is what you want and what you think is a significant way to mark the celebration of your wedding vows. If that means signing the ketubeh after a Catholic wedding, there is no rational objection to that other than flat out racism. Your wishes as the bride should absolutely be part of your wedding. I honestly cannot think of any Catholic priests I have ever met who would find that objectionable in a blended family.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 11:56 AM Flag
Run away as fast as you can. Some of this seems weird to you? I'd say all of this is weird. I have friends who've married into controlling families. They are Catholics too (both partners too--not sure if this really is relevant) and the FIL is so nutty--calls all the times, wants all the details--overly involved past any "loving family" into scary territory. Think twice what you're getting into. It gets worse as time goes on and kids are a factor. Didn't you have to have counselling to marry in the Catholic faith? I don'think it's allowed unless you convert or sign papers.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:32 AM FlagOH, Sweetie. This is horrible. I think you need a major time out, hit the pause button and lay down the law. MIL and family will be running (and ruining) your life from the moment you say "I do" - and DH seems to need some cojones, as another posted said. How old are you guys? This sounds like the kind of thing that happens with younger couples. So sorry. Major, major red flags.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 03:19 AM FlagDH's coworker was at her own wedding reception. MIL came over and laid down the law. Told her (the wife) how things would be working going forward. New wife listened. Got up. Left the reception. Went back to work on Monday. And filed for an anullment. She is now happily married (to someone else) with a lovely little family. Cut your losses, hun.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 03:19 AM FlagEven absent the religious issue, if you were making a sincere conversion before you met this guy, I'd tell you to run. This guy is not cut out to be a good dh. It is not too late to find the love of your life, and if you go through with this, you will regret it. Calling it off looks like an enormous mess, but staying is a much bigger mess.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 04:12 AM FlagWhere's your family? Friends? I'm RC and if someone I cared about was getting ready to marry into this family, I'd risk our relationship to try and straighten her out. This family may mean well, and there are reasons they're all enmeshed like this. It works for them. If you join them you will suffer.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 04:21 AM FlagMy friends have been very reserved with their comments. Last weekend, someone called him a dick due to an incident at his grandmother's house. They are keeping quiet on the issue if they have strong reservations.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:22 AM FlagDo they know how bad it is or only hat they see w their own eyes? Is there anyone who actually knows everything you posted here? Not trying to beat you up on this, but I think we all see that you need a wakeup call. Spend the holidays with your family this year if for no better reason than this will be the last one before you are married. Hopefully, the peace and distance will give you the strength to back out
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 10:41 AM FlagI only recently told them about it and they were silent. One of them rolled her eyes and said, "You need to think about this and be happy. My sister got divorced after 11mo of marriage because she didn't even want to go through with the wedding." They didn't say anything specific because I think they are afraid of insulting me.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:14 PM Flag
I have a lovely MIL and FIL. They are super sweet. My family is crazy and we don't see them. Every holiday we spend it with my DH family. It gets old very quickly. I LIKE these people. Once we had a baby, our schedule no longer belong to us. My husband pulls the "Grandma and Grandpa want to see their grandchild." card. It is very hard to argue against. Again, I like these people and I still want to pull my hair out sometimes. Its going to be a million times worse with you. Do you really want your DH families "advice" on how to raise your child. Think long and hard about this. Either you put your foot down and put it down hard, starting with the wedding or run away as fast as possible.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 05:36 AM FlagThere is no way I would marry someone with such an awful family. It's only going to get worse after you're married, especially if you have kids. Frankly, I don't think a discussion is going to cut it at this point - a leopard doesn't change its spots. I would call it off and find someone normal.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 05:44 AM FlagEven if religion were not an issue, you have bid problems. You spend every holiday and lots of weekends with his family? They have a say on your career and what type of car you drive? Youe future DH needws their approval for basic life decisions? WHY ARE YOU STILL ENGAGED? Do you think any of this will change when you are married?
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 05:52 AM Flagi believe boundaries and expections are set while dating before you are married. lots of holidays coming up, spend them with your family and see how he reacts...yes, this is a test! Better to test now, than just after married!
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 06:58 AM FlagI've tried, but he has a much larger family than I do and my family lives in FL. We live in Manhattan, his family is in LI. So, it's a much bigger deal for us to fly down to FL to see my small family, which only includes my parents. I have one sibling in CA. He says that we MUST visit his family because his grandmother is old and everyone expects it, it would be rude not to go.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:25 AM FlagNP: I'm a newlywed, and prior to marriage my in-laws were very nice. After marriage, they came to visit *every weekend*. It is possible to start a healthy marriage with you in-laws around every weekend, which is basically the ony time you have to relax and bond with your new husband. My MIL didn't think they were extra trouble, but I always needed to be "on", there was alll the extra laundry from the guest bedroom sheets, and we'd have a power struggle over who got to cook in the kitchen. It may seem petty, but I get to cook in my kitchen. She never lets me touch anything in her kitchen, and when she fought with me to cook for her "boys" (FIL and DH) in DH's and my kitchen, I got really upset. She made me feel like a guest in my own home. I grew to resent DH for not setting boundaries with her. Don't take their money; they are velvet handcuffs. Trust me, you don't want the conditions the money comes with. If your fiance isn't willing to spend time with you and you alone, this marriage isn't going to work. You'll never be a team.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 10:17 AM Flag
Agree w everyone so far. Get it now. You have pretty much spent your 20s w this man -- unless you had a meaningful relationship in between and it's possible that you are a little scared to be alone so are putting on blinders. Every single one of your 5 points is a big red flag in and of itself. Get out right now. You are only 30 and you have a good career. If you stay longer or (much worse) actually go through w this, you will win up feeling alone and isolated and also worried that you are "too old" to find someone new. It won't be true then either but that will be another reason to stay too long. Realize too that fiance is the problem here, not the ILs. They are awful but he is actually encouraging all of this - by not objecti and uou say he even supports them!
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 07:05 AM FlagI had plenty of relationships other than this guy. We most definitely did not spend all of our 20s together.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:20 AM FlagGreat. I'm glad that you had serious enough relationships bat you aren't sticking it out in part bc he has been your only truly serious boyfriend. All of the rest that I and everyone else have said still stands. We don't know you so have nothing to gain but stayig just seems like recipe for lifelong ungappiness
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 09:27 AM Flag
It will only get worse when you get married. When I was dating my DH there were a few things that I found odd and nothing this extreme. It only gets worse. It's true that you really do marry their family. My inlaws drive me nuts, but they are not controlling and DH stands up for me. DH-to-be needs to stick up for you and not be so easily controlled by his family. If he can't do that, I would get out ASAP.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 07:15 AM FlagCouldn't agree more, OP, you need to leave. He is unapologetic in putting his family before on every aspect of your lives already. When you have kids, it will only get worse, though I'm actually hard pressed to see how it could get much worse. BTW, you are never too old to have an elaborate first wedding. At some point, you may be too old to have your parents foot the entire bill but that's another story and totally irrelevant here
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 08:26 AM FlagWow. This is terrible. Your fiance has a major boundary issue. He doesn't seem to understand what is due to his relationship with you, and cannot recognise when family involvement is inappropriate. It sounds like he may lack his own individual identity, and was raised to feel that this is normal. But it means you can't really know him or trust him completely. I would back away from this one, slowly.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 11:06 AM FlagOP, please tell us what happened; and what you decided to do. I hope you did have a talk with your fiance frankly, because this really is important. When DH and I met, this was 12 yrs ago, his parents were really sweet to me and kept to themselves. I didn't have a chance to find out if DH would stand up to them, I knew they were very close, but I just didn't know. Over the years I found out that DH would absolutely put his family's happiness in front of mine. Basically what they thought was much more important than what I felt. We are different cultures, but I am quite liberal. They translated this to mean you don't have culture, so its up to us to educate you about ours. It got so much worse after DC. Now 10yrs of marriage later, I am estranged from my in-laws. Don't talk to them, don't see them. While DH keeps them involved with DC and himself, but understands now that he screwed up many times early on and this is how it will be now. If we didn't have DC, we would be spitsville. With red flags like you have, you should at least be wiling to have the conversation.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 11:26 AM FlagTo OP: this is a cautionary tale but seems like it sort of worked out for the OR (meaning they are still married) despite what I'm sure was a lot of misery. Don't assume it will even work out this well.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 11:30 AM Flagor- it worked because DH doesn't think he can live without me, and is willing to live with this compromise that makes him very sad and his family furious. But he is unwilling and unable to set proper boundaries for them, and on some level he knows and accepts that.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 11:55 AM Flag
Why do you have to spend every holiday with your fiance's family? Why not just Christmas and Easter (assumedly 2 big holidays for them) and spend Thanksgiving and NYE(or some other visit) visiting your family in Florida? Unless your fiance and his family realize he is starting a new family now with other obligations in addition to them, and that they cannot hog all of his time, then your marriage will be a miserable and unbalanced one.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 12:35 PM FlagThis post can't be real. Run, OP! Run quick. Make like Flo Jo and get the hell away from the dickless fiance and his douche bag family. I WISH a future-MIL would try to square up on me about my wedding, my job, my family, and my religion. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. OP, no good is going to come from this union. Your DH already showed himself to be disrespectful towards what makes you, well you. Though being Jewish isn't the entire you and you are made of many aspects, your DH needs to respect ALL of you. If he can't then you need to drop him like third period french.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 04:32 PM Flag
[+] Strange question -- at what age do boys start getting erections? My DS is almost 2. H... 20 replies
- My dc also has a minor complication (adhesion) from circumcision and I was told by several pediatricians that he will likely grow out of it after 3 years old because that is...
- so, uh, why'd you not circumcise til 1y/o?...
Talk : : December 07, 2011
Strange question -- at what age do boys start getting erections? My DS is almost 2. He wasn't circumcized at birth, but was circumcized later at close to one year old (reasons not worth going into right now). It occurred to me recently that in the bath, changing his diaper, etc., I've never seen him have an erection. Maybe that's perfectly normal, but I'm also wondering if there's some problem stemming from the circ. Or maybe he just saves it for when I'm not around. Or maybe I'm just insane. :)
20 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.07.11, 06:42 AM Flag ]He's a baby! I don't think a circ can harm him in that area. My 1st wakes up w/ one (2.5) and has for a long while. I can't say I've ever seen one on my 2nd who is 1.5 - but I am certain I've never thought it was a problem.
[ Reply | More ]12.07.11, 06:55 AM FlagWatch him when he takes a bath. My son likes to give himself erections in the bath. He's 2.
[ Reply | More ]12.07.11, 06:57 AM FlagI didn't really notice erections before 2, but that didn't mean he didn't get them. When my son hit two or a little older he wanted to be naked all of the time, still does. At three there are A LOT of erections and my ds has poetic discussions about his love for his penis. Brace yourself!
[ Reply | More ]12.07.11, 07:37 AM Flag
[+] Is it true that most black people in the US don't circumcise their sons? I thought ju... 29 replies
- mother is Irish (Catholic) and my father is circumcised and my mother's brothers and father were...GAVE ME A BOOK that talked about how circumcision is "wrong" -- and she said, "You should...
- Lots of Americans aren't circumcising these days - just do a search here...the AA woman that shared my hospital room circumcised her son. I do not think as many...
- Unless medically trained, no one should ever circumcise their own kids....
Talk : : November 30, 2011
Is it true that most black people in the US don't circumcise their sons? I thought just about everyone in America and Europe does, but I've spoken to some friends lately (black) who said they've always been with men who weren't, and they didn't circumcise their own kids.
29 replies [ Reply | Watch | More11.30.11, 07:16 PM Flag ]-
Really? My father is Polish (Catholic) and mother is Irish (Catholic) and my father is circumcised and my mother's brothers and father were, and my brother (born here in the US) was as well. As for me, I've been around the block a few times, and I've never seen one that wasn't.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 07:20 PM Flagliar. You haven't been with lotsof European men if you claim to have never seen an uncut penis. I've been with many Spanish, French, Italian and Danish men and all of them were intact except the Jewish ones.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 07:23 PM FlagDH is German, uncirc and we've had this discussion to death, it's not the norm to circumcise. Two other dudes in two other countries, same experience. This is easily googleable.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 07:25 PM FlagHere you go: http://www.circinfo.net/rates_of_circumcision.html
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 07:27 PM Flag
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Is it true that most white people in the US ask stupid, idiotic questions on anonymous boards?
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 07:52 PM Flag-
No you're not white but you are an idiot: a non-white person asking a question regarding people of color on a "white" board. We expect them to show their deep seated racial biases and ignorance on such a platform but we don't expect one of our own to just be a dumb a$$. It's like coming on here as a black woman and asking for hair advice...what exactly is your point? There are other venues where "we" gather and the line of questioning would be more on target and relevant to real fact finding. Now you posted here and got what? A bunch of white women who slept with black men looking for any venue to brag that even if their brain isn't equal opportunity(check out some of the past posts on here), at least their vagina is. Then there might be a few people of color stragglers. Pointless really.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 11:58 PM Flag
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[+] How much should I expect to pay for a mohel to do my baby's circumcision? 8 replies
Talk : : November 05, 2011
[+] My DH and I are expecting my first DS next month. We are Jewish, live in Manhattan a... 8 replies
Talk : : October 24, 2011
My DH and I are expecting my first DS next month. We are Jewish, live in Manhattan and looking specifically for a mohel that does not use a clamp or a hemostat (torturous devices) during the circumcision procedure. So far, every mohel we have spoken to uses a clamp (ouch!!) Any suggestions?
8 replies [ Reply | Watch | More10.24.11, 10:11 AM Flag ]
[+] I learn so much from UB. Yesterday, it was a lemon party. Today, it is clitoris hoo... 42 replies
- who cares if your family gets circumcised or not...
Talk : : October 23, 2011
I learn so much from UB. Yesterday, it was a lemon party. Today, it is clitoris hoods.
42 replies [ Reply | Watch | More10.23.11, 01:57 PM Flag ]how did you get to adulthood without knowing about clitoral hoods?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 01:58 PM Flag-
who cares if your family gets circumcised or not.... you should know about your body... your sex life must suck
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:04 PM Flagthis is the type of person who, at the age of 50, talks about her dismay about never having had an orgasm...
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:05 PM Flagnp lol and then you tell her she can do it to yourself and her eyes light and she responds "how"
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:06 PM Flag-
lol it sounds like op could use a little porn, or maybe a copy of "our bodies, ourselves"
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:21 PM Flag
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because you are completely ignorant when it comes to your own body and it is hard to pleasure yourself or teach someone else how to pleasure you when you don't know a thing about what ya got going on down there.... Please buy your kids some books about their bodies so at least they can teach themselves about their genitals. It would be really detrimental if your daughter went around thinking she pees out of her vagina....
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:13 PM FlagA person can "know their own body" without being familiar with the ridiculous terminology. It's not as if everyone goes around calling it their "clitoris hood."
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:20 PM Flag-
"clitoris hood" please, I beg of you, I'm sure school was hard for you and you didn't take anatomy (probably not even bio, but if you would pick up an anatomy book and just look at the pictures a bit, you would know more about your body, about your husband's body (poor man), and you wouldn't sound like an illiterate... : )
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:30 PM FlagObviously you are not the lipstick lesbian I imagined. As an FYI, anatomy books do not call it a "clitoris hood" just like they do not call the labia "mud flaps" or the vagina the "happy clam." You might want to take a break from the vintage lesbo porn.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:41 PM Flagnp read the post she was responding to. btw, I'm a mom and a lesbian and I have seen the posts you have on here. You really should learn that bigotry is disgusting and I hope that someday you will realize that homosexuals are people and not just jokes and stereotypes.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:49 PM Flagclearly you didn't read the post I was responding to, besides I'm convinced you can't be a woman, no one is this stupid unless they lived with nuns who taught them that their genitals looked like a barbie dolls. You must be a little boy and I think you need to go watch some peewee's playhouse now.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 03:05 PM Flag
hmmm I don't say "spank my gluteus maximus" but I do know what it is....
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 02:32 PM Flag-
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I went to a lemon party once. It wasn't bad. At least they made me dinner.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 03:48 PM Flag-
[+] Did you/would you have the hood of your daughter's clitoris removed? If you did, are ... 80 replies
- OP, why aren't circumcised men who are suffering banding together and speaking out about...that they have been mutilated. Teen boys who have been circumcised never masturbate or yearn after teen girls because their...satisfaction later on, great, but my son will be circumcised becuase the positives are practical ie easier for him to...
- So you believe in female circumcision for your daughter, obviously. First you claim this is...
Talk : : October 23, 2011
Did you/would you have the hood of your daughter's clitoris removed? If you did, are you happy you did? How was her recovery from it?
80 replies [ Reply | Watch | More10.23.11, 06:48 AM Flag ]-
no, this is a troll trying to make some point about circumcision. Best to just ignore.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 06:58 AM FlagOP: There are people who do hoodectomies on their DD for religious reasons. Are you saying they're wrong to do so?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:00 AM FlagFemale genital mutilation does not have any religious basis whatsoever. It is used solely to control women's sexuality. You can't make a comparison between FGM and circumcision.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:29 AM FlagOP: What do you mean by a "religious basis"? If you're talking about the Quran, I think you're right, but you of course know that there are many regional variations to religious practice and that people often incorporate local customs in religions. So according to many of the practitioners themselves, they are doing it for religious reasons. Are you saying that people shouldn't justify this practice with a religious argument?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:48 AM Flag
OP, why aren't circumcised men who are suffering banding together and speaking out about how awful sex is now that they have been mutilated. Teen boys who have been circumcised never masturbate or yearn after teen girls because their sexuality has been ruined by this. The fact that you try to equate the two really LESSENS what female genital mutilation is all about. Shame on you, making light of the women who suffer. It's like saying you feel raped because a man looked at you in a certain way.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:00 AM FlagOP: It sounds like you don't know much about female genital mutilation (which some people call female genital cutting). There's a big difference between removing the clitoris itself, removing the hood, and removing part of the hood. Shame on you, not knowing what you're talking about.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:04 AM FlagThere r several groups in the country just doing this. Inform yourself
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:19 AM FlagCan you list the 'several groups' in this country ? Who are you talking about ? What Groups are you talking about ? Medical associations, ethnic groups and if so what ethnicity, etc. ? Can't tell what you are responding to, do you think having the hood of the clitoris removed is a good thing ? OP, is this you or someone else ? Also, above you tell the responder to google it herself. Since you started the thread, can you educate the rest of us ? You asked if any of us have had it done to our DD's and if we are happy about it and about her recovery. Can you start by telling us about your choice and if you are happy about it and if your DD had a good or bad recovery ?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:39 AM FlagOP: I didn't write that, I don't know what he/she is talking about - maybe groups of adult men who are upset that their parents had their foreskins removed? Some women choose to have their hood partially removed or completely removed for sexual reasons - it could be that the hood doesn't retract well on its own. As far as my DD is concerned, I'm still mulling over the decision, hence my OP. What do you think? If it were the cultural/religious norm for me, would it be more okay, in your opinion?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:00 AM Flag
female mutilation is against the law in this country, so this must be another stupid post from Kiwi
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:40 AM Flagthe pros are increased sexual pleasure, but not a lesser chance of infections like with circumcision. If my daughter wants to get this procedure done for sexual satisfaction later on, great, but my son will be circumcised becuase the positives are practical ie easier for him to clean, less infections.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:53 AM FlagAre you the OP ? Are you advocating that women do this to their daughters ?? When is 'later on' in your opinion ?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 07:55 AM Flagugh. no, not op, I am ok with circumcision, but I do agree with OP that people are very confused about the difference between getting the hood of the clitoris removed (something older women sometimes elect to do) versus having the entire clitoris removed (a horrific and barbaric procedure that has man painful and life altering effects).
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:00 AM Flag
This is so moronic, this is an elective cosmetic procedure designed for grown women. You are just trying to create a controversy and your post is fake.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:02 AM Flagyour post makes me even happier that I circed. Bye bye troll.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:06 AM FlagOP: Thank you for answering the OP! I'm considering doing the same thing you did, mainly for aesthetic and cultural reasons. Could you please let me know why you're happy about it?
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:22 AM FlagI love you you refer to yourself in the third person. winning!
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:24 AM FlagOP: I love that you don't know the difference between a Post and a Poster. Losing!
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:28 AM Flagyou typed " OP: thanks for answering the OP" lmao! wine in the am....
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:32 AM FlagOP: Sorry that I didn't spell it out in detail. "Thank you for answering the question/substance of the Original Post." Maybe you're new to UB, but people often get sidetracked from the question of the OP, so I was thanking her for answering my question. Please let me know if that isn't clear, I can explain again.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:37 AM Flaglol! omg you are a genius! anyway, when you typed "OP: than you for answering the OP" because YOU are the OP, you were referring to yourself in the third person. I find this funny because people who do this tend to think very highly of themselves, think Star Jones, Arnold Schwarzenegger, William Shatner etc.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:41 AM FlagOP: You're still confused so I'll try to explain one last time. Sometimes when people use the abbreviation "OP" here, it means "Original Post." Sometimes it means "Original Poster." I used the same abbreviation in 2 different ways in the sentence "OP: Thank you for answering the OP!" So I wasn't referring to myself in the third person.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:51 AM Flagno, sorry, people use it as original poster, anyway, it doesn't matter, you have shown what a racist wacko you are op based on other replies you have made. and stop making the weird boob posts. If you are going to be a troll, at least be an original one troll.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:54 AM Flag
number one I'm Jewish and guess what I am married to an uncirced guy. I live with it but prefer the other. We are raising our child Jewish and although I'm sure people will chime in about jews not circing it is not the norm. Honestly I don't know anyone who didn't circ so although the stats may be changing they aren't in my circle. I also read the new study that circing is better and prevents disease. I read about these kids who have problems later in life and then it really hurts to circ. We used mohel. Every couple of months there is the same argument here over and over again. Do what you want but don't tell others they are what they are doing is horrid. So sick of other judging others. Actually this entire board is making me sick these days. Aint like it used to be. And yes I like it better aesthetically.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:33 AM Flag
I'm with you OP. I had my clitoral hood removed three years ago and I am having the best sex ever! I could never orgasm through vaginal sex before, but now I can. Actually, if you think about it, people who want to remove the clitoris want to make it so that a woman feels less satisfaction, this is what happens when you DON'T remove the hood!!!!! ---->>>> (.)(.) boobs!
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:30 AM Flag-
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OP: Why is that? Do you know of anyone who had her clitoral hood removed by a doctor and had a bad experience? If so, I'd really like to hear about it.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:43 AM Flag-
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OP: she probably bled to death because they ripped off the hood too fast. whom do they say this about when it happens in Africa? oh yeah, because muslisms and black people do it and everyone is mad, but when jews do it to boys, no one cares. stop killing our childresn' genitals!!!!!
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:52 AM FlagOP: Wow, that is such a convincing imitation of my writing style. It's really uncanny! Good job.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 08:57 AM Flagnp. You know what OP, I think you are a troll trying to incite controversy and it isn't happening, so you are creating a lot of really ridiculous responses. Have fun, because no one is taking you seriously.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:41 AM FlagOP: I didn't write any of the above responses, though I do appreciate someone saying I didn't write the racist post and that my writing style is a bit better. Anyway, I'm only wondering how people feel about this because I am considering having my hood removed to improve my sex life and I was wondering if many people would attack me for this because I'm pretty sure no one would care if I was an adult man wanting a circumcision.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:44 AM FlagOP: I didn't write the posts beginning "I didn't write any of the above responses ..." and I didn't write "yes, we tried many things..." I guess I have really hit a nerve with someone if she would try to pretend to be me.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:50 AM Flag-
OP: This isn't OP, see how I didn't include OP above??? Ok, here is why I asked. My son is circumcised and someone is attacking us about this saying it is like female genital mutilation, I wanted to prove to myself how ridiculous this comparison is. Also, I did not write the boob posts.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:55 AM Flag
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What? You asked about daughters? You are ridiculous. If you wanted to know about YOURSELF, you would have asked it yourself.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:50 AM FlagOP: No, that wasn't me. I don't even have a kid. I'm a nanny.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:56 AM FlagOP: Again, this isn't me. I wrote because my son is circumcised and a couple of friends have said how terrible this is and compared it to female genital mutilation. Just read above, this is getting ridiculous and confusing. I'm not a nanny. I'm married with two kids.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:58 AM Flag
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OP: Someone has started to pretend to be me so this will be my last contribution to this thread - any OP posts after this time stamp aren't mine. I thought it was interesting that no one was able to explain why removing the clitoral hood is any different from removing the foreskin - that my post prompted anger (to the point that people insulted me and tried to imitate me) but precisely zero convincing arguments.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 09:54 AM FlagOh please. Does a clitoris hood increase the risk of your daughter getting cancer? Thanks for playing.
[ Reply | More ]10.23.11, 10:08 AM Flag
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