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Escape From Mount Stupid: Religion

Danny O'Dwyer
By Danny O'Dwyer, Video Journalist

Danny details the times religion has been used in games, and wonders whether the industry's portrayal of Islam is enforcing negative cultural stereotypes.

Cards on the table, I don't believe in a deity. If I'm totally honest it's not that I don't believe a god exists; I just don't believe your god exists. But my belief, regardless of whatever facts I think I have to back it up, is no more or less true than somebody else's devout faith.

Atheists and people of faith have a common ground; it's called common sense. You don't need to be secular to view the universe, and you don't need to be religious to be spiritual. They also have another thing in common: bastards.

Extreme religious groups actively make the world a less cool place to live. Whether it's Islamic extremists detonating themselves, fundamentalist Christians gunning down doctors, or neighbours in Northern Ireland throwing stones at each other over different interpretations of the same book, these people hijack religion to enforce their own cultural beliefs, and it's our misinterpretation of this reality that creates the divide between those with faith and those without.

It's also the reason games have largely avoided tackling religion, though it's one of the most interesting aspects of life. Some games, such as Mass Effect and BioShock, have done a great job of utilising it in interesting ways, but we still haven't reached the point where Islam can be portrayed without a suicide bomb.

I believe ignoring an entire culture out of some fear of offending their faith is a fantastic way of promoting intolerance. I wouldn't fancy it if every Irish game character was an IRA soldier. I hate the IRA, but far worse would be the cultural misrepresentation it carries. When the only Islamic people we see in games are extremists, as an industry we are collectively saying "Muslims are terrorists." That is not acceptable.

Finally, I want to say a special thanks to my friend Tamoor who agreed to be interviewed for this episode. We met through the GameSpot community a few years ago, and I'm very proud to call him one of my best friends today. He's also one of the great unsung journalists in our little industry. Follow him on Twitter at @tamoorh.

You can watch the site version of this episode right here, or subscribe to the show on YouTube.

Danny O'Dwyer
By Danny O'Dwyer, Video Journalist

Danny has been a GameSpot community member since 2005. Since joining the staff as a video journalist in 2011 he has lost touch with most of his friends and family. He looks forward to the day achievement points become legal tender so he can return to Ireland and fix its broken economy.

1266 Comments

  • Codester_41

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 7:35 pm GMT

    I don't mind religion in games, as long as it goes well with the story... and they're not trying to convert me while I play them. XD Religion is in billions of people's lives, just like showering and going to the bathroom.

  • Codester_41

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 7:29 pm GMT

    I thought the character in journey was a woman as well actually... it's weird seeing her as a him. :/

  • Cristero

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 7:27 pm GMT

    Then games should be educational regarding religions so we all don't become a bunch of racists but it doesn't matter if games are not educational regarding being a murderer, a bully or a car robber?

    Don't get me wrong. I love violent, bloody videogames. I just don't understand where is the line that sets the limit of what a game can and cannot do regarding morals and values.

    As a side note, these 'negative cultural stereotypes' in gaming are not only Islam-related. Actually, I think Christians are the most 'affected' religious group in videogames.

  • zyxe

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 7:12 pm GMT

    maybe game developers don't tackle religion much because in games, we usually think of winning and losing and it's really tough to have a clear winner with a wide audience where religion is concerned.

  • bignick217

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 6:07 pm GMT

    Hey Danny, you forgot about Final Fantasy X. Nobody missed the implications in that game. Once you reached the final act of the game you realized the stories emphasis was on the fallacy of blind faith. And no that is not me talking about not having faith, before anyone decides to overreact to that statement. Read it carefully as I chose my words carefully. I specifically used the term "blind faith" not faith in general. There is a difference.

  • TimDigit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 4:52 pm GMT

    Lastly, I will attempt to address the topic at hand presented by the above "journalist". Video games are about life therefore all topics therein can be represented according to the views of the author. Just like in this room, if the author wants to mock Christianity ,Hinduism, Buddism etc. In the Christian free state of America they are free to do so [as long as they respect fool atheists anything is ok O_o]. However, in other nations it has already been proven not the case. Death Jailing in China Pakistan Afghanistan and Iran for saying anything other than the states beliefs is common law. So here in the still free West, for now; [till the apes get their way with the rest of the country] If I do a story or game about the over throw of President Amabijishad or whatever, do I have to include every single good and bad Iranian?? If I want a realistic story, yes. If I'm presenting 1940's style propaganda not necessarily, and customers are free to vote with their dollars accordingly. There is a scripture that says "not one jot or tittle shall fall to the ground,..." this is the proof of whether words [prophesy] is of people; or of God. The parable of the fig tree holds true no matter anyone's belief system. The God of Israel [Is -real] Ok I'm done.

  • thrice00

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 3:37 pm GMT

    I respect beliefs of everybody. I'm just gonna say this: It's totally possible that GOD exist. BUT, all earth religions have been created by Humans... never forget this.
    GOD did not write the Bible, nor the coran nor anything. WE did.

  • DeFiLeDTitan

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 2:50 pm GMT

    your argument kind of sucks. This is like when half of the action movies before 1990 had russian bad guys. We all knew that most of the soviets were normal people, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot that suck. And how about we bring up the all the south american bad guys. According to games every guy south of the border works for a drug cartel. The point is who cares? Most muslims aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim.

  • Furry_McTank

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 2:47 pm GMT

    That's a lot of comments. Nothing like a bit of the big 'R' to spark off a wee discussion!

  • WCK619

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 2:33 pm GMT

    @Vampiro_HuntT3R not a single wrong guess? Not a single mistake? You really need to do your research before you spout garbage like that. Islam has scientifically provable mistakes. in Bukhari vol.4:537, "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." This is patently not true. Dipping a fly into your drink isn't going to cure anything, it's just going to make it dirtier.

    This is where religious people annoy me. When they're so ignorant they believe their religious texts to be infallible.

  • Ninja_Tom

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 2:14 pm GMT

    @Arther-la-Blunt
    "And why hate on the IRA"?
    Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's probably got something to do with the way they kept bombing civilians. Maybe they did/do have "legit beef", but that sure as hell isn't the right way to go about resolving it.

  • gameofthering

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 2:01 pm GMT

    You should do a Resident Evil video

  • staring_death

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 12:26 pm GMT

    True words man. I'm a Muslim. and I always have problems with extremists and blind believers.
    and I live in a society that those extremists try to make other religions look back, just like how the christian or Jewish fanatics do!
    But at the same time, there are many others who respect other religions (me being one of them) and aren't really fond of these depictions.
    Your words are true, but let me add something else. In this world, we have extremists and we have PLAIN IDIOTS!
    Ones who have no mind of their own and just tend to follow!
    In the media, you just have to say something, and if you say it in the compelling way, people will follow that like a horde of sheep. that easy!
    And most of the gaming community are extremists (including me!) who love extreme violence or depiction of sex. that's a good fact for the developers to mock and make a threat out of everything. sex does not sell, Extremity sells! (just think and you'll understand)

  • supertom221

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 12:16 pm GMT

    @KelpsterD
    My my, you're a funny little man. I'm pulling stuff out of thin air, OH THE IRONY. And stupidity.

    An Alligator wasn't the only animal mentioned in the whole bible, it was just the only one mentioned in the CREATION.
    And before you try to translate Hebrew to me, how about you learn it first instead of making a moron out of yourself, since it just so happen that my native language IS HEBREW. You a$$.
    "Tannyn" IS ALLIGATOR in Hebrew! Not a dragon, serpent, sea monster, great creature, and definately not a dinosaur. Oshe gam et ze ata lo yodea??

    Alligators and certain, few, Dinosaurs belong into the same category of Eusuchians Crocodilomorphs, but their properties are far off that of the existing modern Alligator. And before you try to shoot that down, i'll let you know that under no circumstances can species evolve over the course of 10,000 years. ESPECIALLY not Crocodilomorphs. Try 45 million years.
    Also, how come we survived and the Dinosaurs didn't? I mean, they were the former rules and strongest hunters on the earth, we were just ants.... Claiming Dinosaurs got extict before Count.... Heh, an idiot would be a compliment.

  • Lazy_Marine

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 12:05 pm GMT

    v nice video thank Danny good job !

  • randomrings

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:57 am GMT

    I think video games are art. Whether you believe in that or not is irrelevant. Someone who sees games as art and develops games should be free to express themselves in the games that they made. If said creator wants to make a game in homage to his/her religion, more power to her/him. If it gets bad reviews and ends up sucking I won't want to play it regardless of what the cutscenes are preaching.
    I'm agnostic. I don't want to start a religious debate or any debate with anyone on here. We all know debates in comment sections aren't really debates, they are arguments (for the most part). I'm not coming back to this page to read your angry reply, so don't bother

  • Bilal100

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:52 am GMT

    @Lucarcuss did I ever write its ok to kill non muslims in games? All I said was its better if muslims are not portrayed as the bad guys in games I didnt mean to imply that some other religion's followers should be the bad guys what I meant was is it really necessary to even mention the religion of a person especially if its the bad guy?If you can portray a good guy as a muslim,hindu,christian,e.t.c than thats ok but must you really make a muslim character and then have him terrorize people?Us muslims have feelings too you know we dont like seeing muslims being portrayed as bad guys the same is true for everyone do you know how it feels to have to kill fellow muslims to get across a game even if its a game it doesnt feel right and BTW why the hell are you taking things out of context anyway I didnt write anything even remotely similar to what you made it sound like.

  • KelpsterD

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:43 am GMT

    Anyways have a good one everyone! I'm off to read some more of the Bible well...after my exam..well..4 exams. yay. Take care!

  • KelpsterD

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:42 am GMT

    @supertom221

    Lol, now you're just pulling stuff out of thin air. Alligators huh? That's what it says? Of course alligators were around, however a behemoth is something entirely different. Leviathan is also mentioned, along with Tanniyn (dragon, serpent, sea monster, dinosaur, great creature) And don't fire back with "Oh its a hippo, or an elephant" In Job 40: 15-24 it mentions "moves his tail like a cedar" elephants and hippo's tails are, as i'm sure you know, more like a small branch. It also describes it as "the first of the ways of God" in Hebrew it refers to it being the largest of all the animals God created. Now, an elephant is big, but a whale is bigger. This was no whale, considering it was on land, eating grass, with "bones like beams of bronze, ribs like bars of iron." Oh boy I'm gonna be reading more I'm all excited! This is some sweet stuff.

  • Whitebloodsun

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:42 am GMT

    @ibra_unit No problem.

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:36 am GMT

    @Whitebloodsun, thanks (btw, you got a pretty cool alias!)

  • Whitebloodsun

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:33 am GMT

    @ibra_unit The game that you ask is called Homefront.

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:30 am GMT

    @@Jynx_1991, I'm glad that you didn't take it the wrong way. Always remember that every religion/non-religion(PETA and environmentalists come to mind!) has its extermists.

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:27 am GMT

    @Jynx_1991, you mentioned that religious people are good because they are fearful of God's wrath.
    I believe that God wants us to love Him willingly (in a similar sense to how an individual might sacrifice his/her own time and money for charity and other good deeds). This is simply my own personal belief - and I do not impose my beliefs on others. I merely wish to share my thoughts on the subject.

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:26 am GMT

    The problem isn't even religion itself which is quite easy to put the blame on, rather it's the people misusing religion to mask their own hidden agendas. Like for example, people using the bible to condemn blacks, gays, and women which is just ridiculous. At it's core, Christianity seems to be a book about love and acceptance, yet these so called "Christians" aren't really giving a good name to their book and god.

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:21 am GMT

    @Ibra_unit, Oh, ok I see, sorry If I misinterpreted your message there. It's just that I've actually met religious people in real life and in forums that are skeptical as to how one can really be a good person without religion. And yes, I concur that removing religion won't solve any problems. Just like anything, there are always going to be the crazy ones that ruin the image for every group you know what I mean?

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:18 am GMT

    @Jynx_1991, I never said it's impossible for people to be good without religion. I'm saying that removing religion is not the solution to humanity's problems. Even without religion, there will be problems - that was my point.

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:17 am GMT

    And being "good" just because your fearful of a god punishing you isn't really being "good" is it now? That's just conforming due to fear which is not the same thing as being a good person.

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:14 am GMT

    @Ibra_Unit, It's always baffling to hear from some people (mainly religious), that it's impossible for people to be "good" without religion, because it is very much possible. You don't need religion to tell you that hitting someone is wrong, that stealing is wrong, etc. because if we don't like those actions being directed at us, why would we enjoy doing that to others? It's very basic and simple as that. I grew up in a home where my parents didn't enforce any religious teachings or anything on me, but rather only told me to strive to be a good person and to always treat others with respect, which still holds true to me today. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say it's definitely possible to be "good" without religion.

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 11:05 am GMT

    Oh, one more thing.... can everybody please run a simulation in your minds - Imagine a world without any form of religion..... ask yourselves: would a world devoid of religion also be devoid of looting, murder, racism, etc? The problem has never been religion -- it's always been, and will continue to be, a problem with humanity.

  • BlackSnake123

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:58 am GMT

    @danaterlord the problem is,that it is error,sky doesn't fall on earth cause it is no object wrong belief of the past,hail is not falling from ice mountains this is the wrong belief of the past,skies are not established on invisible pillars once again another erroneous thought. you asked me for error i just gave you a few i knew.

    @vadagar1 i am familiar with this : "arabic is just too complex you just don't know anything" this is simply your excuse to justify the errors. "n the verse u copied "sea" also means space because back then people thought u can only use ships (arks) on water, but now we know better, in the verse god is saying that he protects travelers, and commands the elements of nature (in a nut shell) but as i said I'm no expert and you should NOT take my word for it XD" i think you are really delusional.there is nothing vague about it.sea also means space?! "bahr" means sea. and there is really no other thing about it and you just didn't get the important part which was falling of the sky. there is nothing miraculous in quran,it is just what the people of that time knew whether it was true or false.there is no upgrading of understanding of that book,there is only upgrading to the interpretations, so stop interpreting your fantasy brutal book to scientific matters.

    @BroadSide88 simply replying to those who reply to me. and you are right there is no point in going on with pointless debate.

  • ibra_unit

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:56 am GMT

    can someone please tell me what game is shown at 00:48?

  • GamespotSux_IKR

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:46 am GMT

    God, please help Mario and Geno fix the Star Road so my prayers will be answered~ T-T

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:43 am GMT

    Creationism also proposes that adam and eve were the first humans ever conceived, that humans and dinosaurs coexisted, that god "creates" natural disasters (such as tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.), and more which is just ridiculous no offense. These claims are baseless and entirely irrelevant with having anything to do with science.

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:34 am GMT

    @KelpsterD, I'm sorry but "behemoth" is in no way a description of a dinosaur. If anything, behemoth is the description of the hippo. Like I said earlier, humans and dinosaurs did NOT exist with one another, if they did coexist we would of have found human remains along with the remains with dinosaur. Evolution is still a theory, yes, but it makes a lot more sense than creationism which proposes that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

  • supertom221

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:32 am GMT

    @KelpsterD
    OH, I was reading, little man. Better you ever did.

    Nope. The "Dinosaurs" you refer to, are actually alligators. They are the alligators are the only animals mentioned during the creation. Also, He created the ANIMALS, before man. Not the plants, these were on the fourth day.

    The Alligator refences in the Bible come to DENOUNCE all other theories of creation, and are claimed to be very powerful beasts, created under the shadow of God, yet are still to be under his control. By the Book Of Job and Book of Isaiah, it is told the Alligators waged a great war against God, in which God won, and had to keep them supressed.

    Now tell me, how is it an Alligator proved to be more of a threat than a giant Dinosaur? They are both lizards, yes, but the differences are quite MASSIVE.

    Do not confuse fiction with scientific research, please.

  • vadagar1

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:10 am GMT

    @Vampiro_HuntT3R actually the accuracy of some of the astronomic data found in Qur'an is what got me interested in it, and indeed the Arabian tribes at that time lacked both the astronomic equipment AND knowledge and even the math needed to reach such data. but I think you got a lot of thumbs down because you came off a little too preachy in your comments XD

    I actually believe in god (or what ever u want to name him) because of quantum physics and astronomy but I will not bore everyone with that, because "faith" is a personal thing and can't be measured by others

  • KelpsterD

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 10:04 am GMT

    @supertom221

    Then you weren't reading. It says he made the heavens and the earth, sun and moon, sea and sky, plants, animals, and man. I guess dinosaurs aren't animals then? You can't really say "oh it says animals that must not mean dinosaurs though because they were before". Again, evolution is a theory. Stop trying to make it into fact when it's not.

  • vadagar1

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:59 am GMT

    @BlackSnake123 did you just reinterpreted an Arabic verse (well an English translation were a lot of meanings are lost), which is a very complicated language (my native language) in which even I don't have a full mastery of!!!! Dude scholars that are much more knowledgeable than you and me have been studding these writings for 1400 years, and upgrading their understanding of them as knowledge and science evolve.

    and from a purely scholarly stand point I will ask you to plz refrain from assuming knowledge in things you clearly don't know about.

    and Muslims don't "add" anything to the Qur'an its probably their highest taboo....

    in the verse u copied "sea" also means space because back then people thought u can only use ships (arks) on water, but now we know better, in the verse god is saying that he protects travelers, and commands the elements of nature (in a nut shell) but as i said I'm no expert and you should NOT take my word for it XD

  • garalao

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:47 am GMT

    In any story you want to evoke emotion, and while there are games out there devoid of story, most have some degree of storyline. if we take our personal ties out of religion, than we can hopefully see it more as a method of driving story, and creating engaging events. If you cannot detach yourself from such emotional ties than don't play games that have such content in them. By and large the naysayers out there aren't even playing games, they just want an excuse to cry and moan.

    I try to live by an adage taught to me by my parents "first seek to understand; then seek to be understood"

  • vadagar1

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:41 am GMT

    did some one just say the earth is NOT 4.5 billion years old... DAMN.

    plz don't mess with astronomy and geology its the most "exact" science we have, we can actually "predict" the movement of stellar objects we have discovered already millions of years into the future, even in Islam the astronomic bits are quite accurate and its what got me interested in Islam in the first place, not some crazy preaching dude , the mention of black holes, the formation of the suns and heavy metals and the unique composition of water ...etc are what made the quran so appealing to me.

    I for one think science can actually encourage "faith" for me anyways , as long as one keeps using his head and question EVERYTHING. "those who seek wisdom are truly wise, those who found it are fools" no idea who said this but I think it was Plato.

  • dark_sith_

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:39 am GMT

    I wouldn't call myself an atheist, because I do believe there is a God, but I am a secular, non-observant Muslim. I don't believe that God rules our lives, or that everything in our lives is predestined. God helps those who help themselves would be my motto regarding religion. That is why I consider prayer useless waste of time. That is not to say that I do not respect the people who choose to be spiritual, observant believers or atheists. Just as long none of us start imposing our views on others, we can and should get along.

    Religion doesn't make a person. There are no bad or evil religions. Just good and bad people. Things that bring forth bigotry and religious intolerance are ignorance and stereotypes. "All Muslims are terrorists". "Jews are thiefs" "Christians want to subjugate everyone". These are things that blind us. Turn us into bigots. I had a funny experience like that. Lady at a grocery shop in Portland, Oregon wouldn't believe me that I am in fact Muslim. Apparently, all Muslims wear beards, have dark skin and are Arabs. And here was I. Clean-shaven, caucasian, decidedly European and Westerner in every way. What I'm saying is that we cannot form opinions based on stereotypes. Learn to have an open mind and you get to see and meet great people with different outlooks and perspectives.

  • BroadSide88

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:30 am GMT

    As a Muslim I won't start to offend and make non-sensible mockeries out of other religions.

    Just why don't we get back to talk about gaming ??

  • BroadSide88

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:21 am GMT

    @BlackSnake123

    And where do you want to reach with this?

  • Shane747

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 9:18 am GMT

    So many Atheists here, its sad. Funny thing is.. Most atheists are just as agressive and/or narrow minded, if not more so, then the religious fundamentalists they hate so much.

  • danaterlord

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 8:53 am GMT

    @blacksnake123
    and what exactly is the problem? :-?

  • linedrive09

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 8:51 am GMT

    I wish there would be more games that at least have a religious aspect to it. But i highly doubt that would happen. The world is practically pinning Christianity to the floor and putting a bullet in it's head. So i bet game producers wouldn't go the extra mile with religion and really put some depth into a game. They'd probably just get get sued by some whacked out athiest group.

  • Zaknaifen

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 8:46 am GMT

    Hmmm, no mention of Xenogears?

  • Jynx_1991

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 8:16 am GMT

    @Frost192, While I won't deny that a lot of religious people are crazy, your comment is out of line. Burning their bibles and Qur'an? As an atheist, I have absolutely no problem with religion, but when it is being used to discriminate against certain people among other things, I will take a stand. Trust me, their are religious people out there that aren't spewing crap 24/7, but rather they respect you for not believing in a higher power and you respect them for their beliefs.

  • Frosty192

    Posted Apr 11, 2012 8:11 am GMT

    @max-hit Correction: As long as religion exist there will always be confrontation, war, and death. Religion is just an excuse to destroy thousands of people because it is "God's Work". If God and Allah are real then they are the biggest SOBs ever. People need to open up their eyes and realize that after you die you will just rot in the damn ground just like everyone else. The Bible and the Quran should just be burned.

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