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    Vikings in limbo and expansion not on NFL's radar

    MINNEAPOLIS (AP) The Vikings are embroiled in a fight for a new stadium that may jeopardize the franchise's 51-year tenure in Minnesota.

    And if you think that's just a local story, think again. The situation could be a preview of showdowns in St. Louis, San Diego, Buffalo, Jacksonville and Oakland in the coming years.

    NFL officials have said repeatedly that the league isn't interested in expansion, and with cities including Los Angeles and Toronto among the spots that could host a team, it creates a situation in which the threat of relocation will hang for some time over cities and states faced with franchise demands for a new stadium.

    ''Having an available, hungry market is not a bad thing when you're negotiating,'' said Marc Ganis, a Chicago-based sports business consultant.

    In an interview last month, NFL vice president of business operations Eric Grubman said he has a list ''longer than my arm'' of interested buyers in cities ''all over the place,'' but named only Los Angeles and Toronto as viable markets the league would currently consider.

    Expansion doesn't appear to be an alternative.

    ''It is not something we've focused on with our membership. And I don't see that in the foreseeable future,'' Commissioner Roger Goodell said earlier this year. ''We want to keep our teams where they are. We believe that's healthier for the league in the long term. We're working to get stadiums built and make sure we do whatever we can to make sure those teams are successful in those communities.''

    The NFL's 32-team structure has the advantage of competitively balanced schedules and division alignments. Plus, recent contract extensions with the over-the-air television networks run through 2022; total revenue from CBS, Fox and NBC that year alone will be $3.1 billion.

    Another team or two would force the league to cut that lucrative pie into more pieces, even with a hefty expansion fee.

    ''The math doesn't add up,'' Ganis said.

    Plus, he added, ''there's no real expectation that a team, even in a market like L.A., is somehow going to generate more revenue for the league on a long-term basis.''

    San Antonio, Texas, the home of former Vikings owner Red McCombs, is one of those open markets eager to join in the fun someday. McCombs thinks Texas can get a third team eventually, but it will come at the expense of another NFL town.

    ''San Antonio has been after a team since 1992,'' McCombs said in a phone interview. ''We will continue to stay after it until we finally prevail. The owners really like this 32-team league. You almost have to depend on getting someone to relocate, because it's so hard to get a three-quarters vote (to approve expansion) to unbalance a 32-team league.''

    McCombs tried to get a stadium to replace the Metrodome in Minnesota for years before finally relenting and selling to current owners Zygi and Mark Wilf in 2005.

    The efforts have reached a potential tipping point in this legislative session, with supporters and opponents locking horns over a nearly $1 billion plan to put a new stadium in downtown Minneapolis. The House and Senate are scheduled to vote on the plan on Monday, and a defeat of the bill would be an ominous sign for the franchise's future in Minnesota.

    The 84-year-old McCombs remains an ardent football fan and connected to the league, and is hopeful that the Vikings will get a deal worked out to remain in the state.

    ''I hope they'll get it done,'' he said. ''The people of Minnesota deserve it. I certainly worked hard for it when I was there. But by the end I really was kind of getting further away from getting (a stadium). It was time for me to give it up and let someone else pick it up.''

    Whether or not the Wilfs are successful, several other struggling NFL cities see a similar predicament looming:

    - The Bills are proposing major renovations, as much as $200 million, to Ralph Wilson Stadium, which will be tied to lease negotiations with the state and county that have yet to formally begin. The Bills lease runs out in July 2013.

    - The Raiders' lease at the Oakland Coliseum runs through the 2013 season, and they want a more modern and lucrative stadium. There has been little movement toward their goal of rebuilding one on the current site, and owner Mark Davis has acknowledged conversations with Los Angeles groups about returning the franchise there. The Raiders have also discussed sharing the stadium the 49ers are having built in Santa Clara.

    - The St. Louis Rams can legally break their lease after the 2014 season if the Edward Jones Dome is not deemed in the top tier of NFL stadiums. The team rejected an initial $124 million proposal calling for them to pay 52 percent of stadium improvements and owner Stan Kroenke has been noncommittal about their future in St. Louis if the dome isn't upgraded.

    - The San Diego Chargers have been trying for a decade to replace Qualcomm Stadium and have a clause in their lease that allows them to leave the city during a three-month window each year through 2020 if they pay off bonds that were sold to expand the stadium in 1997. They're trying to build a new stadium downtown.

    - The Jacksonville Jaguars play in one of the league's smallest and least-supported markets, though last year's ownership change seemed to stabilize their place in north Florida for the short term. Their stadium lease runs through 2027 and would cost about $65 million to be bought out.

    If the NFL does eventually decide to expand, it may look at an ambitious European or Asian division, but that may not be for another two decades. London has hosted a regular season game over the last four years, with the Rams scheduled to play the Patriots there this season. The Rams hope to return again in 2013 and '14.

    ''There's going to be a limit to how much growth you can create in the U.S. without new revenue channels,'' said Bill Glenn, senior vice president of The Marketing Arm, a Dallas-based sports marketing firm. ''Unless we're talking pay-per-view for NFL games, I'm not sure where that comes from in the U.S. Jersey sponsorships? That doesn't create the kind of revenue the league is looking for.

    ''It's a very challenging proposition for the NFL to have significant growth rates and keep within the domestic boundaries.''

    ---

    AP Sports Writer John Wawrow in Buffalo, N.Y., contributed to this report.

     
    • Ganjed  •  Shakopee, Minnesota  •  2 days 8 hours ago
      The whole stadium business is getting old here. They could move to the moon for all I care. I haven't been to an NFL game since 2000: Parking so you can tailgate is now $50, not to mention decent seats go for over $100, I park for free at home and my monthly cable bill is more reasonable than buying tickets; I cook better and I get my beer cheaper watching at home. 60 inch television with enough room for 8 or 10 of my friends of whom will not be calling security on me because I am swearing or having too much fun. I understand the local economy will most likely lose if the team leaves, but either way, I'll be watching Viking football at home for many years to come.
      • socal 1 day 21 hours ago
        Wow. $50 parking? Just...WOW!
      • Mark W 1 day 20 hours ago
        St. Louis just built a new stadium in 1995 and they already are thinking about a new one???
      • Mike 1 day 20 hours ago
        move em out!!! the politicians make it quite clear that they aren't football fans!!! go hug some trees!!!
    • FishdogMT  •  Bigfork, Montana  •  1 day 10 hours ago
      Dear NFL; put .5% (or more) of the TV revenue into a fund for stadium upgrade and work out a schedule of improvement/replacement. $15Mill a year adds up quick.
      • P 22 hours ago
        No NFL team is going to pay for their stadium if they can get some city to pay for it instead.
      • taurusrising 13 hours ago
        Go Vikings! And take the Twins and Wild with you!
    • Espy  •  1 day 10 hours ago
      Ever notice any LA fans complaining? NO, they get 4 NFL games every Sunday with no blackouts. The NFL is a totally TV driven league, and the people in LA have the best deal. It's only business moguls and politicians who want an NFL team there. The Raiders? Are you kidding me?
      • Adam J 1 day 9 hours ago
        And doesn't California have 3 teams already. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't LA once have 2 teams in one city? How'd that work out?
    • zonny  •  Denver, Colorado  •  2 days 0 hours ago
      It's about time that citizens say enough already. The league and players union should put up the funds to build the stadiums since they are the ones that profit the most from the games.
    • War 4 Profit  •  2 days 7 hours ago
      Why do these billionaires need so much big government to help them out? Arent they capitalists? Where is the free market?
      • Michael 2 days 3 hours ago
        The only time a corporation cares about the free market is when it's asked to pay for something, otherwise they are always looking for a public handout, always.

        The Bills want to have taxpayers pay for $200million in upgrades, that amounts to signing to mega star players. With the NFL pay roll the way it is it's hard for these teams to justify public monies for stadiums.
      • michael 2 days 2 hours ago
        Let the owners pay- they benefit---not me.......
      • du1834 2 days 2 hours ago
        They aren't asking them to. They are telling them to, That is why LA still doesn't have a team. It allows the NFL to point and say, "If you don't want to do it...they'd love to."
    • Bushman  •  1 day 8 hours ago
      Minneapolis and St. Paul have a population of about 1 million. Dallas-Fort Worth is close to 2 million. So comparing the two markets is foolish. Minnesota has a smaller base (stadium) population and local population than almost all the other NFL teams.

      What that means is, "less money" for the team and owners. Which probably also effects the league. It's clear the fans have no say in the matter. The good news is we fans can switch teams as easy as switching T.V. channels. And I suggest that's what fans should do. Because no NFL team is concerned about their fans, they're just interested in the "money".

      Stay flexable. The old days are gone. There is know more allegiance or loyalty, like there was in the '50's and '60's. The league is well aware of it. So they aren't not interested in growing much more because there isn't the stadium fan base there was 50 years ago.
    • mark d  •  Albuquerque, New Mexico  •  1 day 9 hours ago
      I'm confused. Roger Goodell has been trying to get a team, possibly two teams into the L.A. market since he has been NFL commish. Now he's saying that he doesn't favor league expansion beyond the 32 team format that exists today. He also wants to keep all teams in their existing cities. So, how is he going to accomplish the goal of getting into the L.A. market without expanding the league or encouraging a troubled franchise to move to SoCal?

      I also do not favor having taxpayers fund any new stadiums. Economic impact study after economic impact study have shown that new taxpayer funded stadiums only really help out the billionaire owners and the NFL, but have very little economic benefit to the community as a whole.
    • Ohio  •  1 day 8 hours ago
      The building will be used for much more than the 12 games a year by the football team. This is not their stadium, it's the city's stadium to fill anyway they want to. So why should they pay for any of it at all? The team is being nice in flipping what they see as a equal amount for the time they use the property.
    • Jam It!  •  San Antonio, Texas  •  1 day 10 hours ago
      I know there is bad politics with NFL ownership and everything connected to it and ultimately it is the fans that suffer and that garbage needs to addressed and that fans need to put their foot down and say enough is enough. I get all that. No arguement here. But when you live in a city of some 1.5 or 1.7 million people like San Antonio, and with another city 45 minutes up the street of another 1.2 million people being Austin and oh my God the building that is going on between the two of them, you cannot tell me that we aren't ripe for an NFL team. I know we are supposed to be in hard times but these cities are "BOOMING!" If you're unemployed down here you're just stupid! And espesially after the way we filled the Alamo Dome like we did when we hosted the Saints after Catrina. We're kind of getting tired of being the stepchild city of the southwest. And if Jerry Jones considers this his territory and says he cares about his San Antonio Dallas Cowboy fans then why the hell did he move new stadium even farther north? So we have to pay to travel that distance and lodging so we can pay $60-$100 for parking, $20 a beer and $60 for a pizza but we can't support our own team? Time Warner doesn't even get the NFL channel for us but we just got a new professional soccer team? What's that all about? And I know LA would get a team before us but Toronto? The NBA has already proved that sticking a professional sports team of any sort in Canada is suicide. All of these movers and shakers down here might want to try shutting the hell up and listening to it's fan base for once. We'll take a team anyway we can get it! Other cities have had multiple chances with NFL teams. We would like our chance please! Oh and I agree with one of the comments from earlier. Hey "Red" (McCombs), sit down and shut up! We don't need help like you would offer! All that money and no class!
    • md  •  Elmhurst, Illinois  •  1 day 15 hours ago
      lived in St Louis long time. if Rams want a top tier stadium, shouldn't they first be a top tier team instead of the league chew toy?
    • Anonymous  •  2 days 1 hour ago
      The sport owners speak out against government interference in their business enterprises but they are the first to complain when the government will not pay for their sport stadiums. So much for believing in capitalism. If they are capitalist, let them build their own stadiums. Therefore, the owner of the Vikings ought to build himself his own football stadium. But sadly,the greedy 1 percenter will use all sort of blackmail to have one built. If I were mayor, i would tell him to shove it.
    • Robin  •  1 day 18 hours ago
      Hey, all of you scoffed at me when I'd suggested the "Des Moines Vikings"

      Give it time!
    • zylofone  •  2 days 6 hours ago
      If the Minnesota NFL franchise says it can't play any longer in the Metrodome and wants a new stadium, fine. Let them pay (or them and their league partners pay) to build a new one. Why is it that rich companies always are looking to the elected representatives of ordinary people to pay for things that they could afford but simply don't want to pay for? Gee, I wonder why....
    • Glacier  •  1 day 14 hours ago
      The Owners have put up 486 Million to build the Stadium. Other Investors have come up with 315 Million. So they are asking the State to cover the rest of the bill 200 million.

      This is a no brainer decision because if the MN VIKING LEAVE the State of MN the spin off jobs and all the money pouring into the surrounding area will all dry up. You will lose money with all the Bars Restaurants Hotels Shopping malls Vikings Merchandise sold parking.

      If these Republicans want to Block this Stadium so be it. They will be blamed and we will get a chance to VOTE them out of office next election also.

      So all you right wing Republicans who love Football if the MN VIKINGS leave you only can looking in the mirror and blame yourself you are the idiots who Voted this gang into office.

      The Democrat Gov. Mark Dayton already made it perfectly Clear to all the Republicans who are going to Vote on this Stadium Bill send me the Bill and I will sign it and we will Build it and put many laid off Constructions Workers back to work in this City.
    • Frank  •  Rochester, Minnesota  •  1 day 17 hours ago
      There is an easy solution to this problem...let the Vikings sell stock to raise the money for the stadium. Why do sports teams think they are entitled to taxpayer money when no other business can do this. If I want to expand I need to raise capital so I sell shares...building stadiums for sports teams is ridiculous. Someone should file and anti trust suit against the NFL for forbidding teams from selling stock immediately.
    • Contrary to the point  •  Southfield, Michigan  •  2 days 6 hours ago
      Lets see if I get this right. The NFL will make $3.1 billion by 2022 yet want the Public to pay for their New Stadiums? And this same public is then expected to buy the tickets to sit in the New Stadiums they just financed? Yet the Owners refuse to kick in money and threaten to move their team if they don't get a free building. $ave your tax-dollars and let them move.
    • Mongo  •  1 day 12 hours ago
      It bothers me how these sports team owners hold the citizens and lawmakers of a city and/or state hostage with these issues. Why should locals foot the bill for a sports arena? In any other profession, if a business wants to locate someplace, the business owner arranges for the building to be built, not the government, nor does the government subsidize the building, either. Sure, the stadium generates jobs and revenues for the city it's located in, but so does a 10-story office building.

      You want it, you pay for it. If it's provided to you and you need it upgraded, you pay the upgrade costs and help share the maintenance costs since it's your team that uses the place. Otherwise, either fold your franchise, move it someplace else (on your own dime), or be happy you had a venue there to begin with.
    • Pass  •  1 day 20 hours ago
      I still think it will come down to this should a division realignment happen. Minnesota moves to LA. St. Louis would join the NFC north while the LA Vikings would be in the NFC West. Do I like it? Well as a Packers fan... Yes. as a fan of football... um... Yeah actually it would probably end up working out the best without unbalancing the system and still giving everyone what they wanted. it's not like the Rams would be loosing out and if anything it would mean half the NFC north games are inside (as is) and half still outside (chicago and green bay) I think it could work.
    • Joseph  •  1 day 9 hours ago
      Is it a game? Yes. Is it a business? Yes. Build your own stadium. If financing has to come from the State then pay it back with interest otherwise get it somewhere else or close your doors. I am tired of millionaire owners and players not willing to spend money to help their business.
    • Dan  •  Kenosha, Wisconsin  •  1 day 23 hours ago
      why can they find a couple of billionaires to build stadium themselves and rent them