Hi!  I had a very similar experience a few months ago when my baby was about 2 months.  He’s my first, so all of it was new to me, although I had expected that exclusively breastfeeding would mean a few more months without cycles. My lochia stopped at about six weeks, then the pattern repeated at two week intervals a few times.  The “episode” before last seemed to be a period, with cramping and other fun things, but two weeks later, I had slight spotting again, and now I haven’t had any bleeding for over two months- just fertile and infertile mucus appearing alternately.  Like you, I assume fertility has returned.  Like the other commenter, we’re not being terribly careful (due in large part to the frustration of having no idea what’s actually going on!) so I have no real advice, just wanted you to know you’re not alone.  God bless you!

Please ask this on the nfp.marquette.edu forum
it could be you got an LH rise but no ovulation

Make that “not” alone! Oops.

No comment on the bleeding but thought I’d share this for Carolyn A.  I learned a few years ago that our bodies don’t flip back and forth and release an egg from one side and then the next.  We can release an egg month after month on one side, then it can switch.  The doc explained to me that there really was no rhyme or reason.  So, when you say you experienced pain on one side when ovulating but aren’t having pain now…it’s possible your body may have switched to the other side.

I hadn’t really paid attention to which side I was feeling pain on, but your point is well taken. The charting is a much better indicator as to what’s going on than what I’m feeling or not feeling.

Actually, a woman’s orgasm does help with conception! The contractions of the uterus help to move sperm along, so I don’t see how an orgasm during afterplay would be anything other than helpful!

My understanding is this would be OK before or after intercourse, in the same “session” so to speak. But it would wrong if completely separate from intercourse.
I have also heard it releases oxytocin, which is the “bonding” hormone, so that would relate to the unitive aspect of intercourse.

First, read a little bit from the catechism, starting around paragraph 2360:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#III

Second, you do realize that there are two kinds of female orgasm: vaginal/internal & clitoral/external, correct?

Third, knowing that, you do realize how elusive an internal/vaginal orgasm is for most women, right?  No statistics handy, but for most women, an external/clitoral orgasm is more attainable & common & an internal/vaginal is rare(er).

Fourth, I know Christopher West speaks specifically of this (the timing of female orgasm) in his discussion of Blessed John Paul II’s General Audiences called the Theology of The Body.  I wish I had time to find the precise section w/quotes for you.  If West is not to your liking, then here’s a link straight to the talks by JPII:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

Basically, you and your husband are *both* right.  While orgasm is tied to the bonding, our bodies (male’s and female’s) are so beautifully created & so complex, that exact coordination is going to be tricky.  Foreplay and afterplay & everything in between are all *part* of sex.  The timeframe is going to be unique to each couple. For most men, their orgasm arrives at the conclusion of everything.  For women, their orgasm can arrive on a more flexible timeline.  It’s *all* good, and *all* part of bonding & unity, and also all part of a couple’s communication, trust and respect for each other.

Thanks anonmom for this one!  What a beautifully written and researched answer!  I learned a lot from your response - I knew this was true, but I didn’t have the church teaching to back it up.    Thanks for taking the time to comment today!

I don’t want to ask anyone to be too graphic, but I wonder if someone could please go into the difference between internal and external orgasm?  new idea to me.  Since having my first baby I can barely ever have an orgasm.  Lately we have found that external stimulation really helps me get excited, and brings me to the edge,  but then once my husband stop and starts the actual penetration, I get less excited and rarely orgasm.  I don’t mind, I don’t feel like I have to climax every time to be satisfied, but it is really frustrating now that I can have climax within my reach during foreplay but barely ever reach it once we’re actually in the middle of it.  Would it be acceptable for me to reach climax through external stimulation first, before he penetrates?  I can see how that would be OK but it sounds dissatisfying to both of us because it’s so separate—my turn, then his. 

Thank you SO much for your honesty and help, I am really in the dark about these things.

<<Would it be acceptable for me to reach climax through external stimulation first, before he penetrates?>>

Yes, that is acceptable. As someone mentioned above, it’s the same “session.” I fully understand your point about it being so “separate.” Wish I had a solution!

I’ve been trying to think of how to word this delicately. Maybe you want to experiment with position/movement that best simulates the pressure/location that your husband is providing during foreplay. Probably it is the clitoral stimulation, pressure in the area of the pelvic bone that you need.

Thanks for all of the helpful responses. I think Al hit what I was getting it. This would be stimulation outside of a “session,” perhaps when we were not going to have intercourse.

I think you need to look at HOW much your temp has shifted before you start to worry.  I do see my overall temperatures shift based on the seasons or even whether we are using our heavy blanket in the winter or just our normal one!!  I know you don’t seem to see a link to anything in particular, though.  I’m guessing that if you are talking less than .5 degrees it is probably just a normal fluctuation, but I’m no expert.  I also don’t think that something above .5 degrees means there is anything wrong necessarily.

Hi Concerned, I shifted nearly a full degree higher when I started taking Synthroid for hypothyroidism.  Before I knew I had a problem with my thyroid, my overall temp. was very low (this is a symptom of hypothyroidism).  Now it is closer to average.  You may want to bring up the issue with your internist, especially if you have any other symptoms of hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism.

I also experienced a general upward shift in temps after one of my children was born.  Mine used to be very low (an indication of thyroid issues, which I didn’t know at the time, and was neither tested nor treated for), but then they went into a more “normal” range which was about 1 full degree higher (Fahrenheit).  Health-wise, I have not noticed a difference.  If it was a shift in the other direction, I would want to be tested for thyroid issues.

I have not used an OvaCue, but I do know they are not as accurate as the Clearblue Easy Monitor.  See the Marquette Method and Dr. Fehrings discussions in many forum posts about the comparison and his research results.  http://nfp.marquette.edu 

The OvaCue is measuring things that are a results of hormone changes- electrolyte changes just like the mucus changes- the Clearblue Easy monitor measures the actual hormone levels and tells you when you about to ovulate (the rise in estrogen and the LH surge that happens 12-24 hours prior to actual ovulation). I think the ovacue would be a pretty good measure of fertility, where the clearblue monitor is more precise. 

The other thing I think is gross is that the OvaCue uses a vaginal sensor you use when you are nearing ovulation- you put the wand in your vagina- gross not to mention unsanitary.  With the Clearblue monitor you test your urine like you do for a pregnancy test.  It’s easy not to mention the gobs of research to back up it’s effectiveness.  The only down side is that there is an ongoing cost after the monitor purchase about $8-$10/month (not much different than the cost of contraceptives)  And there is online support through the website and forum. The monitor is about half the cost of the OvaCue too.

we’ve tried one, with the vag monitor too, and I think it’s worthless. I hate saying that. I wanted to like it? we got it because my cycles are so irregular, and it really didn’t help any more than mucus observation, and I had to take my BBT to confirm ovulation anyway.

I would really recommend the Marquette method, especially for postpartum and if you’re trying to avoid. It uses the Clearblue Easy fertility monitor and I found it very accurate as far as telling me when I was fertile or not and that was a great relief during the postpartum time when things can get to be a bit tricky.

http://nfp.marquette.edu

Anon,
It sounds like you do need a little break; nothing wrong with that. Maybe what you need is a different method of NFP or better instruction - or instructor. Keep in mind, condoms have a failure rater of around 20%.

I don’t use this method, but I’ve heard of the Marquette Method that uses an ovulator predictor too?  Maybe you could look into this?

I hear you about being nervous about getting pregnant!!  A bunch of littles is stressful enough!
After five kids in seven years and trying two different methods, I finally started using the Clear Blue Easy monitor.  It is so easy to use and so clear cut!  It really has saved my sanity.  I no longer stress out about getting pregnant.  My youngest is 18.5 months now and I’m not pregnant!!

Anon, being open to life is not limited to the act of conception.  Being open to life beings at conception.  However, it also involved the care of ourselves, our marriages and the children we are already responsible for.  You are still very much “open to life.”  Sometimes being open to life means having the awareness to know you are not able to care for another baby at this time.  We always have enough love but our children and our marriage need tangible things like our time, our energy and our presence.

Could someone explain to me why we associate being open to life only with conception so much so that this wonderful mom above feels down on herself because she recognizes her body needs time to recover?

Beth, thank you for your kind response. It brought tears to my eyes as well as a feeling of relief. I think you are right..I am only associating openness to life with conception, whereas your response makes me think that it is actually so much more.
And Sarah, I have started using the Clearblue monitor, however Im iffy with trusting it so far because all I’ve gotten are low readings for 3 months now and I’ve had obviously fertile signs but still a low reading. (I am bfeeding) Im hoping to be able to rely on it more once my cycle comes back.

Anon - Regarding the use of the monitor while breastfeeding: One of the reasons I started using it after my current baby (8 months old) is that I have almost constant “fertile” mucus while breastfeeding. I’ve heard some women say that there is a noticeable shift between the constant mucus and the mucus that develops as fertility returns, but I never had any luck figuring it out. Anyway, as long as you are following the protocol and testing regularly, I think you can trust the monitor and relax a little bit. Also, remember that you can post any questions or concerns on the Marquette Forum. Good luck! (And, Beth, thanks for reaffirming that it’s ok to want to limit/space children for the sake of sanity and rest.)

Since you don’t give post-partum/nursing/age info, my only personal-experience guess would be that it could be related to breastfeeding; I would sometimes have an ultra-long cycle when my fertility was returning, but things weren’t quite in sync yet.  I think your ob/gyn can give a progesterone shot or something to get things going again; sometimes the body seems to get stuck and that can help start a normal period and normal cycle again. 
This could also, depending on your situation, be related to pregnancy (extra discharge/mucus in early pg); peri-menopause; poly-cystic ovary syndrome; or something else I haven’t thought of… Anyway, there’s my experience, plus some things to look at depending on your specific situation. 

Thank you Anna for the insights.  I was nursing my just turned 2 year old about once a day but he hasn’t nursed it a few days. Also I had regular cycles for about 12 months and then it just stopped with what seems like constant mucus and no temperature shift.  I am in 31. I don’t think I am pregnant because temp. has been low and abstaining. We’ll see.  Thanks again.

To add to what you have said, barriers such as condoms have absymally LOW success rates.  It breaks my heart to hear of people who feel they cannot continue with NFP (too risky @ 98.9 % effective) and turn to condoms (85% effective) or ABC (95-ish% effective).  You are not turning to something “better” even in the sense of science, here!!  NFP works the best, even when it does not work 100% of the time!!  All ABC does is absolve YOU of the responsibility for thinking/charting and abstaining.  But you SHOULD feel the need to abstain with ABC because it is simply not as good & accidents happen all the time (we have SO MANY in our non-Catholic ABC-using side of the family!)  The pro-choicers just don’t want you to know their method doesn’t work as well, so you don’t hear about all these “failures.”  The fact of the matter is that NO ONE has complete “control” of their fertility.  You are not “meant to” or God would have designed it differently.

Whaaa??  So do you just not have ANY luteal phase (post-peak-day days before bleeding begins)?  I did not know this was possible. :s And, if it is, then it seems like there should be no way for implantation (therefore successful pregnancy) to occur… which would make your pre-peak days infertile in practice, if not in theory (since you would not be able to carry a baby to implantation without a decent-length luteal phase).  From what I understand, you need a luteal phase of at LEAST 9 days for implantation to happen.  That should give you 6 infertile days after your count of 3 full days post-peak OR a whole gob of interfile days if the luteal phase is less than 9.  So since you are not finding these days, what I am hearing is that you and your doctors have just not been able to recognize when ovulation has occurred.  I imagine you have tried everything out there—ovulation predictor kit, charting BBT, and a monitor method to help with this… right?  I do not at all mean to be stepping all over your feelings and emotions in this reply here… I am just really confused.  I cannot imagine how someone could have NO infertile days or be so completely unable to pinpoint (at least down to a general week) ovulation, and thereby get a sense of how long the luteal phase is.  I am sorry this has been such a cross for you, my heart really does go out to you!  I am just baffled…

Marie, have you read any of the posts above yours?  Several women are talking about their use of a monitor such as Ovacue or Clearblue, or others in conjunction with a method of NFP, and their peace of mind in doing so.

I am saddened by & will pray for the instructors who advised you to use “barriers” to avoid pregnancy.  How irresponsible and unprofessional of them!  If they were Creighton instructors, I’d consider informing their certifying body, the Pope Paul VI Institute.

If you were properly instructed in Creighton, you know that the reproductive science arm, NaProTechnology, has a high success rate in supporting pregnancies to full-term & thus avoiding the risks of premature birth. (I know you’re not thrilled about considering another pregnancy, but if you *are* pregnant, this could be important for you to know.)

I am biased toward Creighton b/c I use it.  But the facts about NaPro are the facts.  I am gritting my teeth in frustration, thinking about an instructor telling you to go ahead a use condoms or diaphragms.  The analogy that best fits is that contraception in a marriage is like saying to each other, “Let’s talk.” “Okay, I’m listening”—and then plugging your ears up. How is that a real conversation?

I think that there *are* conditions in which a woman produces near-constant fertile-type mucus, but that does not mean that she *is* fertile all the time.  (Get the distinction?)  The egg ripens & is released & is gone; the sperm have a certain length lifespan.  Constant fertile or peak-type mucus may be a sign or syptom of some other condition.

I am not going to beat you up about resorting to contraception; I will pray for you and your husband to persevere in faithfulness and fortitude.

Talk about baffled.  I obviously don’t have any trouble getting pregnant, so I am certainly ovulating and implantation is happening.  But the doctors don’t know why so many of my children are born prematurely.  My cycles are very different from one month to the next, and I have fertile mucus patches interspersed throughout the whole cycle, rather than a patch of fertile mucus somewhere in the middle.  At the end of each cycle, we go back and try to determine when I was actually fertile.  It is always a guess, and even that can’t help with the next cycle because the pattern will be completely different.  At first, the teachers are confident that they will be able to break the pattern, but after about three months, they start to give up, hence my need to find a new teacher.  I have a few medical problems, but nothing that the doctors believe is effecting my cycles.  I am at a total loss with NFP.  I understand that barriers are not especially effective but whatever space I have between my children, I can only attribute to barriers (they are more effective than nothing).  Nevertheless, I am not happy with any of this.

Oh, and I forgot to add, that 3 % is the “ideal” rate, not the rate actually experienced by people who use condoms, which is something like 12 or 13 percent.  I had figured out once that the odds of a teenager using condoms getting pregnant over the four years of high school are something like 40 in 100.

We DO abstain while using barriers. We follow the NFP guidelines and the barriers are for during the infertile times “just in case” (we have a bad track record of long-living sperm, sorry if TMI)
Also I know a lot of people who use barriers, none of whom have a surprise pregnancy.

I’m not trying to be difficult here, but in all honesty, I don’t buy the stuff about abc being ineffective - how can I when all around me are families of 2-3 children spaced evenly apart?  I don’t mean to be rude, but arguments like that, when I can look around me and see contradictory evidence, makes me doubt other things too.  I’m not saying it’s okay, but it DOES seem like abc works for MOST people

I agree that the pill as ABC is ineffective.  Most of the people I work with have become pregnant while on the pill.  A co-worker of mine has had 2 abortions after failed contraception and kept her last baby.  I am not at all surprised by saying that it is ineffective.  One has a teenage daughter that had bc pills fail because she was on antibiotics (which make it less effective).  Disclaimer:  not saying that everyone with 2-3 children have had sterilization just responding to Anonymous-  Anonymous-I think the 2-3 children is from families that get vasectomy or tubes tied.  I also know a co-worker that had her tubes tied after her 2nd child at age of 24!  I was shocked to make such a choice at young age (she didn’t have health risks just said 2 was all they wanted)  I’m not judging her at all just stating that many people do make the choice to stop at 2 or 3 children and make a major choice like sterilization.