Your search for "real estate" returned the following 23322 results:
Displaying results 1 to 25 sorted by recency. Sort by relevance.
[+] DH and I both work in fashion, commute to midtown (live DT), HHI $300K. 1 DC. If we... 7 replies
- double commuting couples take a real beating to their family life. are you sure you need to leave nyc?...
- economic diversity = sketchy area. I think the schools are pretty good, though. Tests aren't as a high as Bronxville or Scarsdale, but real estate is cheaper too....
Talk : : December 12, 2011
DH and I both work in fashion, commute to midtown (live DT), HHI $300K. 1 DC. If we were to move to a suburb what would be a good one for us?
7 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.12.11, 09:00 AM Flag ]
[+] How do you or have you dealt with the reality that your dh is just not the breadwinne... 117 replies
- we are screwed financially because he sort of gave up at making any real money....
- like the only one. I wish I knew some of you all in real life and we could talk about how hard this sometimes is. At...my folks (who have provided us with a very stable and cushy life with very little income needed through their real estate investments) and my father said "It's only money. He's a good man. He's faithful, kind to you,...
Talk : : December 11, 2011
How do you or have you dealt with the reality that your dh is just not the breadwinner and never will be...in my late 20s and 30s I had hope but now in my 40s I realize this is what it is... I have worked always throughout my marriage and continue to but I'm just feeling blah about our future. He has no ambition and nondrive and does not strive for much...thoughts? Thx
117 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.11.11, 08:17 PM Flag ]Not me. DH started making $2MM at 29. I am lucky to have him. He's a very hardworker. I love him.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:19 PM FlagGood to know, but this is not about you... start a new topic, if you like.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:21 PM FlagJust responding. Seems like a lot of women marry men who are stuck in college and then feel sorry for themselves. Like the pot smoking DH from earlier in the week.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:50 PM FlagLots of people work much harder than your dh, at the risk of their health and even lives, and have little to show for it. Your dh hasn't earned, and doesn't deserve that money--if someone's paying it to him, they're probably some kind of thief--but I am glad for you that you get to enjoy it.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 04:59 AM Flag
-
-
-
You love him because of the $$? Such a lovely post in such an inappropriate place.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:24 PM Flag
Does he not work at all? Aside from money issues, what do you have in common/enjoy doing together?
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:20 PM FlagMy DH is not ambitious for money. He's an awesome guy, he's a fantastic father, and sometimes when I read posts on UB I remember that I wouldn't trade him for all the money in the world. Count your blessings, OP.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:36 PM FlagIt's not the money per se - it's the lack of him trying to provide better for his family. It's annoying.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 08:39 PM FlagMy DH is the hardest working person I know, but he's not ambitious for money. That's one of the things that made me fall in love with him. He's a doctor, doing groundbreaking research, but according to UB we're barely middle class. He could have gone into plastic surgery and make 20 times as much, but he'd be miserable.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 09:40 PM Flag
I am in the same boat. Incredibly smart person but cant play the game--things he is morally superior for not caring about money --because struggling is so fun
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 09:10 PM FlagStruggling isn't fun, but I'll take the guy who doesn't care about money over all the "ambitious", asshole strivers on here. There is something admirable about it. Money is not as important as UB makes it.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 04:31 AM FlagNp: Think you're confused. What OR describes may be a preferable manifestation of prolonged adolescence--you'd prefer him to someone greedy. But he's not virtuous. He's indulging neuroses, or is just a sloth. Not the same phenenom as a grown adult having the self-discipline to do without.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 04:48 AM Flagtrue--there are very different nuances. My DH is a very hard worker but not motivated to be what most define as successful. He is 50 and I feel we are screwed financially because he sort of gave up at making any real money.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:25 AM FlagLOL. Many of the women here are living out their own prolonged adolescence. They don't want to work (DH should do it), they don't want to take care of their DC (nanny should do it), they don't want to clean (housekeeper should do it), they don't want to organize their important papers (personal assistant should do it). . .
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 10:32 AM Flag
The happiest day of my life was when DH came home and said he wanted to take over a 50% pay cut to leave big law for an opportunity at a small firm owned by a friend. No amount of money, drive, or success beats having him home regularly to see our kids grow up, have time for vacations, and time with each other. I love him like this!
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 04:28 AM FlagThere was no denial period for me. We were old when we met and I could tell he was limited. If he didn't have substantial savings from a lucky investment of his parents money, I doubt I'd have married him. It has to be really hard to make a marriage & family work if you have to do everything.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:10 AM FlagI am getting divorced because of this..my ex has/had no drive...he was making a decent salary when we met and got married...then lost his job and settled into a low paying job and stayed there and basically i took care of everything, the bills, the kids, the house the laundry/cleaning...i finally reached a breaking point and it was too late to try and salvage the relationship, i had lost my respect for him.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:16 AM Flagreally, even if he got a good job in the end - it was too late? I am just thinking through the same thing.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:30 AM Flagim not sure- it wasnt about the money situation really, it was more about the total lack of partnership i felt with him...i was alone, taking care of everything in our lives. he didnt want to step up to the plate and help the situation out.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:59 AM Flagthanks, I did tell him I want a divorce and we are now separated, so we will see what happens over the next 6 month or so, I don't need the paper just yet, maybe in time, I don't know if there is any coming back from this, if it was not for 2 children it would be easy.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:03 AM Flagyes..we were separated, but i couldnt look back. i have 2 kids as well...its been difficult on my older son- but we'll get to a more secure and stable place and we'll all be happier im sure.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:06 AM FlagNP - And DH here - I see myself in this - was there anything that could have been done once it got there - or is it just best to move on.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:16 AM Flagim not really sure- i got so angry and felt very alone and a lot of hate towards him. we went to therapy, but i think i just needed to go, move on. I had lost any sexual feelings i had for him and that is when i realized we werent in a good place.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:18 AM Flagthank you, I think that is where we are at - ultimately, I think my best course of action is to go back to my normal life and let it go. In my case, I left a job in Silicon Valley to come to NYC so she could run her families business, I lost my job, I started workign with her in her business and then her business failed - my mistake was getting involved with her business at all.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:27 AM Flagmaybe she just needs space? ex didnt give me the space i needed...he still made no effort to respect my wishes and as we were still living in the same house, still did nothing around the house or ask if he could take care of the burdens i still carried with me. we had horrible communication skills as well, which probably ruined the relationship for sure.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:31 AM FlagSpace and going back to being the person I was seem to be the best advice; I've picked up on the internet- although - truly reading these posts on UB might scare me celibate. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen, you can't foce someone to buy what you are selling, you have to make them want it. Good Luck and thanks again.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:39 AM Flagyou're right, if her mind is set, there isnt much you can do to change it...im sorry, relationships are so difficult. life is hard and then you want the best for yourself and your kids. I dont know it's really really hard to know whats right and wrong. I have a lot of guilt because of our breakup- mostly because of the kids. But i know i was really not happy where i was, not sure if i ever will be...but thats for the future to tell...good luck to you as well.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:45 AM Flag
OR: so sorry you're divorcing. One small advantage of not having my act together re relationships, was seeing the underemployed DHs. The women still do everything, primary carers, and own all the household problems. At best many they have teenage sons they have ask to take dc to park, help unload groceries, take out garbage, etc.... I hope you enjoy your new life. The problem for some women I've known over the years is that life will be even harder if they divorce. And some beeyotch will be around their kids, benefitting the little they did save, and the training. Some don't want to lose the little bit of male privilege that extends to wives, like when eating out or otherwise in public. I used to be all harsh about women having affairs, no longer judge.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:38 AM Flagit will be hard, but it will be better w/out him....my kids will always still be my kids, even if some other bitch is in their life! LOL..of maybe she'll be sweet and will show them a womans love when im not around...either way, im happy to be done with him, he's just too heavy a load for me to carry.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:58 AM Flag
This is us. DH and I met young and married, had pretty much equal jobs and resumes. We both hit a few bumps along the road careerwise, I fought to overcome them, he settled into a much lesser career path and kind of just lost the ambition and fight to succeed. Not that he doesn't like $ because he definitely enjoys the lifestyle I support, just doesn't seem to feel the pressure since we are comfortable paying the bills on my earnings. It sucks because leaves ALL the pressure on me. How do I deal? I try to focus on the fact that he's a great father, around for DC and (aside from the career stuff and $) a great DH. It is disappointing though.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 05:59 AM FlagIf he was making 4 million a yr, traveling and never at home then you would have something else to say. Itch, you sound like you will never be happy. You are probably the type of person that buys clothes and return them. The type of person that finds it difficult to make a decision of the top of your head. Ever thought that you are just an ungrateful itch. Dh should obtain a nice position in corp America, travel on business and leave you. Let's see how you will deal with the day to day that he oversees. You selfish itch.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 09:43 AM Flag
My dh was the same way ( or is the same way). He told me after our marriage that plans to take couple of years off as I am making enough money. I told him in return that if he will not bring anything home he won't get dinner I won't feed him period. He started working picked the lowest paying job instead of other high paying jobs which were offered to him stated that he will work only for job satisfaction. I decided to quit my job after dc was born and pretended that I will never go back to work. This thing actually pushed him to reality and now in last year our salary is double of what both of us were making together 2 years ago and I am looking forward to go back to job.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 06:48 AM FlagWomen often make the mistake of thinking the guy will change after you get married. This doesn't happen. It's not fair for you to expect him to be something is wasn't/isn't. Just accept the fact that you will always need to work and add to the family income. He's obviously happy with the status quo and must have other qualities that have kept you with him over the years. Focus on those things
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 09:32 AM FlagDh here-Breadwinner? Why does he has to be? Because he's the man? You women want everything to be equal when it benefits you!!! You wanted equal rights for years, so now you have it. Enjoy... Sometimes you want the man to have a "certain job", then you say it's both of our jobs. (house cleaning, school work, drop off). Women take a stand and stay off the middle of the seesaw.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 09:33 AM FlagYOu both only live one life. Make the most of it. For you it's about ambitions, money, power. For him it's about other joys that do not require becoming a slave. If you cannot stand him the way it is, for goodness sake, get a divorce but recognize that it is YOU who's having a problem.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 10:32 AM FlagIt boggles my mind when posters are chastised for posts such as these. Parents have to provide for their kids!
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 11:39 AM FlagNP: It boggles my mind when women think it's up solely to the men to provide for the kids.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 11:46 AM FlagDH here. Usually this is an explicit part of a relationship. Some guys overpromise and underdeliver. Some women expect too much and pick the wrong horse, so to speak. This is no better or no worse than a guy who leaves his wife for a younger woman because her looks have gone away.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 12:12 PM FlagI am not that person (I wrote about boggles the mind above). But the fact is most everyone has to work hard to make money, and get a plum job to make six figures or more. It isn't easy. It's fine to live miserly lives as single people but kids = money in my book.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 01:35 PM Flag
I'm in much the same situation. I wouldn't say my dh lacks ambition so much as he is discouraged and depressed. But whatever the reason, it's really affecting our relationship. The years are going by, and I'm getting more and more resentful. I work full time and he works at home and some freelance. His family gives us money, but that's not the same thing as him earning it. I took him out to dinner recently and tried to calmly explain that I expect him to try a lot harder to find a full-time job. I don't have any good advice or you, but I can agree with you that it is pretty frustrating. I have got to make a good deal more money and I'm racking my brain to try to figure out how, as I just don't think I can rely on him finding a job quickly, the way the job market is.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 12:08 PM FlagWithout ambition and hunger and luck, he is not going to have a financial breakthrough. Nagging him will not change the outcome. Love him for who he is -- hopefully a good husband and father -- or leave him for what you want. We marry at a point in time and people evolve differently: the career success does not materialize, the once killer woman's body deterioates, but hopefully what one values in a spouse evolves too. Plus, having now met people with f-you money, they do not seem happier on balance than those who are comfortable but need to work.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 12:08 PM FlagI hear you, OP. Your use of the word "breadwinner" kind of skewed your point but I get it. I'm 32 and in the same position. DH is an incredible father and is very active in the kids' lives but isn't very capable when it comes to his non-existent career. I focus on his parenting as much as possible and that helps me through it. But it's tough sometimes, especially when I feel very burned out at work and all of the pressure is on me. I had hoped that we'd share the pressure and responsibility more but our ability levels aren't equal. He also has career crises every year and contemplates quitting or changing jobs that pay less and require longer hours. That can be tough because sometimes I want to take a break or change gears, too, but I can't until he is more stable. I'm very ambitious and I'm fine with the fact that he's not. But he claims that all he wants is to be happy and yet he's not.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 12:32 PM FlagI am surprised how many women main/sole breadwinners there are here with DHs unemployed or underemployed. Sometimes I feel like the only one. I wish I knew some of you all in real life and we could talk about how hard this sometimes is. At least guys often have the support system of other DHs and they can openly b&tch about their SAHW's spending habits etc!
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 01:47 PM FlagI used to complain about it (to DH and in veiled ways to others). There was one point where the lack of financial acumen plus some other things, lead me the suggest divorce to DH. I talked about it with my folks (who have provided us with a very stable and cushy life with very little income needed through their real estate investments) and my father said "It's only money. He's a good man. He's faithful, kind to you, shows you he both understands and loves you AND is a great father. You'd be a fool to let him go." I realized he was right and we reconciled. 4 yrs later, I see him for who he is and he sees me for who I am. Neither of us is perfect but we have a great family and a really good life.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 02:02 PM FlagI agree with your father's sentiment and focus on that with my own DH... BUT... it is very easy to say this when you're able to live the very cushy and stable life with little to no financial stress due to your parents' investments. Much easier than for those who have to stress about paying bills, funding DCs education and saving for retirement.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 02:24 PM FlagOR I completely agree, which is why I put it in, because it's an important part of the story. BUT I suspect that the OP isn't entirely upset with the economics of their life but more that he hasn't become someone she's proud of - emotional rather than financial question - and in that, she and I are in the same boat, but with different attitude.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 02:40 PM Flag
[+] What are the downsides of being rich? 45 replies
- 's hard to tell sometimes if they are real friends. also you tend to live places where...congregate, so you have less contact with the real world. your children end up being exposed mostly...
- the knowledge that most of your estate, having been accrued from hard earned wages that...year, will be chopped in half by an estate tax before passing on to your dcs....
- Why would the measly inheritance tax on our estate be a downside? My kids will have ten...
Talk : : December 11, 2011
-
I'm not rich, but would expect that you would have issues of trust. You could never be sure people in your life were there because they really liked you or were just there for the money. Privacy would become a concern. I know rich people who don't host playdates because they are sensitive to people being in their houses.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:10 PM FlagI don't think there are many. The above poster pointed out that they may have trust issues. But I think very poor people have more. While rich people certainly have problems, I think they tend to be much smaller than the same problems that the less wealthy must deal with.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:12 PM Flag-
I agree about the trust issues. I worked for a very wealthy man as his assistant years ago and he was absolutely convinced no one would ever like him for him. He put all the women he dated through ridiculous hoops to prove their loyalty and then always felt like it wasn't enough. I actually felt sorry for him because he was in his 40's and had never been on love.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:23 PM Flag
-
-
99% whining that you must have stolen your money from them.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:19 PM FlagEternal damnation. "It is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:22 PM Flagit's more complicated, unless you choose to live very simply, but most people don't. so they end up with multiple homes and lots of staff, and these things take up a lot of mindshare. also unless you have friends that preceded the wealth, it's hard to tell sometimes if they are real friends. also you tend to live places where other rich people congregate, so you have less contact with the real world. your children end up being exposed mostly to other rich children, and that's bad too. none of this would make a rich person prefer to be poor, but being rich does have downsides.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:24 PM Flagthe knowledge that most of your estate, having been accrued from hard earned wages that were taxed at the time, plus investment income that is taxed each year, will be chopped in half by an estate tax before passing on to your dcs.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:37 PM Flag"most""? Please. Also there are untaxed capital gains in estates.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 01:47 PM FlagNope, I'm rich and the upside is that our dcs get MORE of our money than at any time in modern history! Thanks to the Republicans, we will have a whole generation of scions of the rich who are richer than ever before. Why would the measly inheritance tax on our estate be a downside? My kids will have ten times as much money as they can spend in a lifetime. I'm assuming you must be rich, too, OR, and I don't understand why this would be a downside? Are your dcs so irresponsible that they will have a meaningless life if they only get tens of millions of dollars and not more?
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 02:37 PM Flag
I used to be rich and became alienated from all my old friends. Turned out to be pretty lonely.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 02:07 PM Flag-
my wealthiest friends in nyc are full-out HORDERS. why get 1 Mercedes when we can have 7? why get 1 ferret for our DBs when we can get 12 ferrets and give them an entire room in the penthouse with ferrit mazes and ferret labrynths etc etc.... why get 1 crazy sculpture when we can set up 7 of them. why just get some vitamins when we can put 2 side by side refrigerators full completely of VIATMINS. it's very odd.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 02:16 PM Flag1) It does not bring happiness 2) People blame you for their down fall 3) People hate on you for no reason
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 04:17 PM Flag-
people are jealous of you and you never know if someone wants to be your friend just to be close to money
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 05:57 PM Flag-
1. Guilt, if you are a guilt kind of person 2. Deciding how much to give and to whom (goes with the guilt) 3. Similarly, feeling as though there are expectations on you from others to pay for things, donate to their event, etc. 4. Worrying about the kids growing up spoiled and trying to figure out what to give them and what to tell them about money 5. Worrying about kids' safety 6. Spending time with other rich people (can often be a negative) 7. Losing perspective and/or constantly wondering if you are starting to lose perspective 8. Deciding how much to indulge yourself (goes with perspective) 9. Worrying whether people are your friends/boyfriend for the money (IMO the easiest route is to never act rich so most people won't know what you're sitting on until they have become close friends naturally) 10. Feeling embarrassed when "outed" and feeling like you have to justify/explain/apologize/pay for your colleagues' student loans, etc. (not that I feel I have to pay for other people's loans, but it goes with the guilt thing) and 11. Yes, the multiple homes can be a headache.
[ Reply | More ]12.11.11, 09:22 PM FlagIt is very isolating; you don't know who your friends are and even if you do make good friends, there is always the expectation to give them money. For example, if i make 10 mill a year, and my friend struggles on 30k, it's very awkward...obviously i seem like a total ass not to give her money...however, giving her money introduces an imbalance in the relationship, because now she feels so obliged towards me, she probably won't be a honest friend anymore. Unfortunately, it is easiest to make our best friends at the same socioeconomic level, and when you're at the top, there are very few ppl left.
[ Reply | More ]12.12.11, 12:21 AM Flag
[+] New Yorkers!! Please help a Londoner make the move to NYC next year. I'm sitting here... 56 replies
- We used a relo company - Intrepid NYer - kind of a boutique,very hands-on sort of service. Excellent consultant assigned to us..helped explain neighborhoods, schools, matched us up with a great real estate broker. DH's company paid for this service - it was so helpful....
Talk : : December 08, 2011
New Yorkers!! Please help a Londoner make the move to NYC next year. I'm sitting here on the internet trying to figure out where we'll live....Too many choices and I'm too far away!!! Anyone willing to help?
56 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.08.11, 01:39 PM Flag ]Tell us what's important to you, and we'll tell you where to move!
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:41 PM FlagThanks - I need someone to tell me where to go. Already posted once last week but still too many choices (and I went to bed because of the time difference and missed all the posts)!! Problem is I want the city, DH wants a garden/yard so we need to find a compromise. We both want 3 beds and would like to find something around $5k, could go up to $6k at a pinch.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:45 PM Flag-
-
Not that bad. Or maybe Brooklyn Heights? Midtown plus yard is going to be tricky.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:57 PM Flag
-
-
-
-
-
Where do you/DH work and how long are you willing to commute? Will your DCs go private or do you need to be in a good school zone? Just seeing your #s. IMO, w 3 beds you have priced yourself out of a good public school zone in manhattan.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:49 PM FlagProbably do UNIS because DH will be UN affiliated - and then we have the Queens options as well as Manhattan. He needs to commute to midtown East, I'll be looking for work so want good transport options as I don't know where I'll end up.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:52 PM FlagNormally I would say def Brooklyn -- Park Slope, South Slope, Prospect Heights, Windsor Terrace are all nice and less expensive than Manhattan. BUT commute to UNIS is hard from Brooklyn. Or pretty much anywhere in my opinion. But Park Slope has a great public school, and a lot of Brits live there (are you English?), so you could just go to local school instead of UNIS.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:14 PM Flag
We used a relo company - Intrepid NYer - kind of a boutique,very hands-on sort of service. Excellent consultant assigned to us..helped explain neighborhoods, schools, matched us up with a great real estate broker. DH's company paid for this service - it was so helpful.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:51 PM FlagWe get a lump sum for the move and can do with it what we want. Do you know how much they charge?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:53 PM FlagAbout 5k, I think, but would we have paid on our own. Our consultant was so helpful...gave me doctors, sitters, introduced me to a few other newcomers. Lots of info about the subleties of neighborhoods, schools. You may want to consider upper eastside - good schools but your budget may be tight for a 3 bedrm. Super service....google them - intrepidnyer.com, I think.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:16 PM Flag
Are you going to be here for a while? Do you have a deposit? One thing to consider if you opt for Park Slope/Brownstone Brooklyn is that you can buy a multi family home and the tenants really defray the monthly costs. (But the initial deposit can be prohibitive.)
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:35 PM FlagUseful website for Londoners moving to NYC: http://www.nycmummy.com
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:37 PM Flag-
[+] Anyone with HH income over $500k going public? Just curious if all of those who have... 45 replies
- given the real estate prices on the UWS I think most families or 1...I am confused by your comment "given the real estate prices on the UWS"- do you think the UWS...because some girl told her that her coat wasn't a real Burberrys or something. I think that atmosphere can do more damage...
Talk : : December 08, 2011
Anyone with HH income over $500k going public? Just curious if all of those who have enough $$ automatically go private, or whether there are some who really believe in public and will choose accordingly even if the $ is there. We are in the latter category and I just want to figure out whether we're alone in this sentiment, or whether there are others who feel that they don't want to allocate the $$ towards privates when there are good public options, even though they can afford the privates.
45 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.08.11, 12:44 PM Flag ]we do. got into a citywide (which somehow makes it acceptable to certain people) but we would have sent to gen ed if ds didn't get in.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 12:45 PM FlagOP here- thanks. Anyone in district 3? Maybe the 'going private' thing if affordbale is an UWS phenomenon?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 12:48 PM Flaggiven the real estate prices on the UWS I think most families or 1 or 2 kids could afford private if they chose to. many of the gen eds are well regarded so people save the money.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 12:49 PM FlagOK thanks- good to know. We are far upper west and maybe it's a bit diff. here, but given the strong general eds further south, it makes a lot of sense that people would save the $ and go public. However... I am confused by your comment "given the real estate prices on the UWS"- do you think the UWS is well priced so people have extra income to allocate to private? Or that it's an expensive area so naturally most fams have incomes which could pay for privates as well?
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 12:52 PM FlagNot necessarily. Just bought a 1.2 mil apt and there isn't enough left over.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:18 PM Flag
np - I live on the UUWS with older kids. Our catchment school is 145 and I don't know any kids in my neighborhood going there. But I'd say around half the kids have gone public and half to private. The public schools include Manhattan School of Children, PS 75, Hunter, Anderson, 166 G&T, 163 G&T, 9 (when it had a G&T)...
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:24 PM Flag
I went to private, public and parochials school growing up and I was bullied the most at private -- a really nasty social atmosphere. So that's what steers me away from private. I never want my kid coming home crying because some girl told her that her coat wasn't a real Burberrys or something. I think that atmosphere can do more damage than the perhaps slightly better academics can do good.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 12:58 PM FlagI'm sure over half the parents at my child's public make that much and they didn't even consider private. It really depends on your public school choices.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:19 PM Flag-
There is no public school out there where over half the parents make over half a million $/year. you are delusional.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:21 PM Flag234 draws from tribeca, the poor people in tribeca are renting $5500 2 bedrooms.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:30 PM Flagthe poor people in tribeca are living in rent controlled and rent stabilized apts, in walk ups and in very small spaces.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:07 PM FlagThe buildings in Tribeca were NOT residential during the rent control period (pre-1972).
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 04:56 PM Flagthis, there are very few traditional apt buildings and the people with kids tend to live in the lofts or fancy condos. there are some more middle class artists that came to the neighborhood before it was so outrageously expensive, but they don't really have elementary school aged kids.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 06:30 PM Flag
do you have any idea how much money $500,000/year is? no way.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:23 PM Flag500K is a pretty standard minimum for Tribeca. You can't buy these 2MM+ lofts with less.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 01:26 PM Flagnp: but you do realize that there is housing OTHER than those lofts and those kids go to school there too. i have a lot of friends w kids in 234 who are not only NOT making $500K+ but who are living in 4th floor walk ups in order to that. I also know families who bought their apts when they didn't cost that much money or who had a fwe good years and plunked down that kind of money on an apt and now don't make that much. i'm not saying that there isn't a lot of money in tribeca and in public schools, but it's not as much as you'd think. and even in nyc, $500K HHI is still very high.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 02:06 PM Flagita. we go to 234. most kids are beyond wealthy with a sprinkle of middle class
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 06:30 PM Flag
-
We would if we could find a decent-sized apartment in PS29. We work like maniacs for HHI of 700-800K and don't want to do it forever, private tuition for 2 kids is $75K in after-tax income...not sure it makes sense for us even if we can afford it based on current circumstances.
[ Reply | More ]12.08.11, 04:47 PM FlagI have two in private and one in public G&T in district 3. I originally only considered private. After sending my youngest to G&T I am hoping to get my older two out of private and into public g&t programs. Private is excellent for music, art, theater, etc with less hard academics. Public is the reverse. It is easier to supplement art, theater and music than the reverse in my opinion and far less expensive. My recommendation is do public until high school and then if you feel strongly about private go for high school and you have saved $360K after taxes. My HHI is >$1M.
[ Reply | More ]12.09.11, 01:27 PM Flag
[+] Wow. I have a elementary through high school aquaintenance that I knew had married $... 5 replies
- the DH is from a successful family and there was an article mentioning it as a notable real estate transaction...
Talk : : December 08, 2011
[+] So I have yet to go to an apartment in NYC that has large potted plants in it - why? 8 replies
- 1) cats 2) DCs 3) real estate to valuable to be occupied by plants. plants live in my office....
Talk : : December 06, 2011
[+] Westchester moms: need recommendations for home inspector and real estate attorney fo...
Talk : : December 06, 2011
[+] Westchester moms: need recommendations for home inspector and real estate attorney fo...
Talk : : December 06, 2011
[+] How much should we offer for a coop? We are thinking of offering 12% below asking fo... 18 replies
- An apt in estate condition, that size would require at least 150-250K in...out there that the market in NYC has a real potential to decline further in the next few years....industry in the city and definitely, definitely affects the real estate market. Just sayin'. My point is, if I were putting a bid in right now, I...
- If this is an estate sale, there is much less worry for offending the...
Talk : : December 06, 2011
How much should we offer for a coop? We are thinking of offering 12% below asking for a 2 bedroom on uws but are prepared to pay up to 4% below asking. Are we reaching too much? I am slightly afraid that our offer won't be taken seriously as this has happened to us in the past. Apartment needs massive reno and has been on the market for 6 weeks and is an estate sale. I don't think there have been any offers.
18 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.06.11, 12:15 PM Flag ]How much is the apt. worth to you? THAT is what you offer. You don't offer based on a preset % below an asking price. That makes no sense. The asking price was determined based on something. It could be comps, it could be in line with a perceived "market value, or it could just be a number someone pulled out of the air.
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 12:38 PM FlagOP here - thanks for your advice. Asking is 945k for a 2 bedroom 1 1/2 bath in good location, good building and apartment can easily be converted to 3 bed 2 bath - this has been done with other apartments with the same floor plan in the building. It does need a lot of work. Other renovated apartments in the building sold for close to asking on this apartment about 2 years ago.
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 01:05 PM FlagJust want to put out there that the market in NYC has a real potential to decline further in the next few years. Obviously I cannot predict so don't take me for my word, but I think a lot of people out there think the same for the simple fact that fin svs bonuses are no where near where they used to be, and no one really thinks they are coming back (unlike the last dip in bonuses when they came raging back the next year, which led to a small impact on NYC RE market). My point is that there is a "new normal" emerging on Wall Street and it's much lower. And although of course not everyone works in fin svs, it is a HUGE industry in the city and definitely, definitely affects the real estate market. Just sayin'. My point is, if I were putting a bid in right now, I'd probably discount is pretty heavily. Doesn't mean the buyer would go for it of course...
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 02:00 PM FlagOP - this is the kind of thoughts that I am looking for -- DH and I are not in financial services but have good stable income. This will be a major investment for us so we don't want to go too high and lose money in short-term. We are not planning to sell for many years.
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 02:17 PM Flag
If this is an estate sale, there is much less worry for offending the sellers with a low-ball offer. You can always start low and go higher, but you can't do it in the reverse. Without knowing specifics of location and comps, I say go ahead and offer 12% below ask. You will have room to negotiate. And if they don't want to, they you know you are not dealing with business-minded, level-headed sellers.
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 02:31 PM Flag
[+] Does anyone have the Hyatt Legal Plan through work? Trying to find a real estate atto... 1 reply
Talk : : December 05, 2011
[+] Tuition at a tt school in 2001-2001 was $22K. Current tuition at same school is $38K.... 34 replies
- Been on finance committee for NYC private. Teachers' salaries/benefits are the largest chunk, and those have gone up for two reasons (at least at our school). 1) During this time period real estate costs went way up, and teachers need to live in a commutable distance. 2) Many schools want to claim that they pay their teachers in the top 10% of all teachers. Yes,...
Talk : : December 05, 2011
Tuition at a tt school in 2001-2001 was $22K. Current tuition at same school is $38K. Discuss.
34 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.05.11, 08:18 AM Flag ]-
-
there is an article from the mid no's (96?) in the ny times talking about the EGREGIOUS tuition at a schhool like brearley where they're charging 16K per year. for high school. now i'm SURE that we're not getting a 2.5x better education in 2012 than the children were in 1996.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:32 AM Flagyou have surely heard of inflation and Supply/Demand models.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:48 AM Flagi posted below about my pov that this is all about a supply demand imbalance. so, clearly, yes. my comment here was meant specifically to modify the OR where she tried to discredit the OP by mentioning that 2001 might not be a representative year to use for comparison. i simply wanted to point out that this trend has been happening since at least the mid-90's.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:51 AM Flag
-
-
-
-
-
-
i'm not the OR, but you are just wrong. 38/22^(1/11)=5.1% if you are correcting her math you did one of two things: 1) you forgot the compounding, in which case you are an idiot or 2) you did it over 12 years vs 11, which is perfectly legit since the original post references a 2001-2001 year (obviously a typo, so a reasonable person could have concluded 11 or 12 years is correct). in NEITHER case, would it be appropriate to call the OP bad at math and you owe her an apology. signed, finance mom
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:46 AM Flag
-
basically, inflation did not occur in our economy since the mid 90's (last year and a half excepted) but in education it still did. basically, the schools argued that they continued to push tuition in order to pull more money from people who could afford it and allow in more financial aid kids. in practice, the tuition "gap" stayed the same, and they used it to add extras in an arms race for snazzy course offerings and lab/computer space without actually achieving their stated goal. in the end, it just pushes out the middle class from private education. sad, really.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:31 AM Flagtuition inflation at every level is pretty steep - college too. some of it is supply and demand, but some are the increased costs - re taxes, insurance, technology, energy have all increased dramatically in the past decade.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:31 AM Flagthat's crap. services businesses all faced the same issues. nobody else was able to get through these types of price increases. its simple economics and supply and demand, as a number of posters have stated above. until public education is figured out or more private schools are started, we should expect private schools to continue to jack up prices. they just dont face the competitive pressure.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:33 AM Flagor: i'm not going to deny that they have more leeway to raise tuition than a business has to raise prices (esp since htey can offer more FA to compensate), however, private school is NOT a service business and people need to understand that. it's not like a business that says, well, i'll sell more so that i can keep prices reasonable or i'll lower my profit margin. private schools are only covering some of their costs with tuition and those costs keep increasing. colleges have been faced w the same issues - at both the private and public level. and if you read about what goes on in public schools - both urban and suburban - costs keep rising. even a decade ago there wasn't a smart board in every class, ipads, etc. plus the software, plus a tech dept to keep it all running. blackboard and chalk or an overheard projector was way less expensive. and post 9/11, nyc insurance and RE costs have skyrocketed - anyone whose privy to their co-op finances knows this. i don't know whether people like you think that someone is profiting off these increases or whether the money is being spent inappropriately, but since a 501(c)(3) needs to file statements of its finances, i'm pretty sure that's not the case!
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:47 AM Flagnp: Our private school has increased FA giving by nearly 10% over the last few years as well. I'm not opposed to that decision because I think there is inherent value to offering aid, but those spots take a toll on tuition costs and fundraising.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:57 AM Flagnnp; FA helps to recruit very smart kids who couldn't otherwise attend private schools. It helps the school's reputation and raises the overall quality. FA also helps to diversify the families and everyone benefits when the students contribute different POV and life experiences as a matter of education.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 12:47 PM FlagYes, but we are talking about economics and the rising cost of tuition.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 01:51 PM Flagand i'm saying it's worth the increased tuition, if it means you get more FA kids. However, I don't think that is the main reason why tuition went up at all schools at the same pace. why? bec even the schools with very little FA raised the tuition. And schools with generous FA have not raised FA amounts, it's pretty much static.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 02:00 PM FlagAt our school it's likely one of many reasons. Still, you can't get as much income from tuition or fundraising with 10% fewer kids who have the ability to pay full-fare. It has to be made up somewhere. An additional 60 spots roughly equals $2,000,000 less in tuition per year. Schools with generous FA have definitely raised it to some extent over the last 5-10 years.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 02:11 PM Flag
Yup -- and you can tell by the make up of the families at our school too. There are many more middle class families in the older grades than the younger ones. I don't know how they can deal with the increases (aid?) but none of them could afford to start private now.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:23 AM Flagi think there are other factors at play here too. public schools got more desirable in recent years, so mc families may have chosen not to sacrifice for private school. also, with the downturn in th eeconomy, families have made different choices as well.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:29 AM FlagPerhaps, but two kids in private (which most people seem to have)at $40k is a big difference from two kids in private at almost $80k...and rising..
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:32 AM Flagi don't think "most people" have $40K any more than they have $80K. I think being able to afford private school at more moderate incomes requires having more reasonable housing costs which got tougher from 1995-2007, having had good financial planning BEFORE kids, and considering it enough of a priority to give up other things that may seem "normal" to someone at your HHI. i know people who got married and got a $2M apartment and then had kids and couldn't afford private. of course, 10 years earlier, that may only have been an $800K apartment so more $ left over for private. but it's still possible to get an $800K apartment today, it just won't be as nice.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:39 AM Flag
Been on finance committee for NYC private. Teachers' salaries/benefits are the largest chunk, and those have gone up for two reasons (at least at our school). 1) During this time period real estate costs went way up, and teachers need to live in a commutable distance. 2) Many schools want to claim that they pay their teachers in the top 10% of all teachers. Yes, insurance costs also went way up (healthcare, liability, people). Energy costs increased significantly also, but not a big piece of budget pie.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 11:53 AM Flag
-
[+] A big question for those who keep the Sabbath and work in finance, big law, etc. Do ... 132 replies
- My field is real estate-related M&A....
- associates and paralegals do the final proofreading but when stuff is being done in real time with clients/bankers in the room or on the phone, it's...require working on sabbath (or weekend at all)-- asset management, trusts and estates, private equity fund (not buy out) work, employment, many kinds of litigation. Some...
Talk : : December 05, 2011
A big question for those who keep the Sabbath and work in finance, big law, etc. Do you ever have to work weekends, and how do you cope with this?
132 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.05.11, 07:08 AM Flag ]I work in IT with people who keep Sabbath. They leave early and do not work on Saturdays. Their coworkers resent them.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:12 AM Flag-
OR: Well, if the boss hired them, then they tend to be more supportive because they understood the constraint early on. When the employee changes teams or a boss moves on, then it becomes a bit more difficult. Most of the time, a boss does not care too much as long as the coworkers pick up the slack, however, I recall one particular project where this person had expertise that nobody else onsite had. It was a bad day for everyone.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:22 AM Flag
Yes, I work full days on Sunday and I work extra during the week. I leave around 4pm on Friday during the winter. No one resents me. If you do a good job during the week and your work is done, no one cares.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:14 AM Flag-
-
OP: Isn't it ok that OR comes in on Sundays to pick up the slack?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:31 AM Flagnp. It is not really about the number of hours that the person puts in, but about the timing. It is not fair to expect one of your colleagues to have their personal time disturbed because they are covering for coworkers who "cannot" work on Friday and Saturday night. If the issue could wait until Sunday or Monday, then I don't believe there would be resentment.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:36 AM Flag
Actually, no. I made VP at 24 because I am a hard worker. I've always produced far and beyond what my firm expects. No need to be nasty. As long as your work stands up, it doesn't matter when you come in. There's one guy here who doesn't show up until 11am every day and leaves at 4pm MWF since he has his daughter on those days. Plus, there are only 4 people at my firm who put in hours over the weekend. One does it remotely, the other comes in Saturday and Sunday mornings, there's me, and another who usually comes on Saturday since her entire Sunday is spent in church and with family. When I said that no one cares, I meant it.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:42 AM FlagThat's fine. Perhaps you work at a firm that does not expect weekend work. If they did require work to be performed on a Friday evening or Saturday, what would you propose?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:44 AM FlagMy firm has expectations of output that would require weekend work. We do not have set hours, though. As I am senior level, I basically set my own hours, as the three others I have mentioned. This doesn't mean that others are picking up the slack. The office staff goes home at 6pm, M-S. No one is there picking up the slack because I am observing Shabbat. I am aware of what the deadlines are for the week, so I budget my time during the week accordingly.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:51 AM FlagYou are missing the point. How do you handle an urgent client request that comes in on a Friday at 4 PM, or perhaps on a Saturday?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:55 AM FlagAs I said, that's not my line of work. I've never had an urgent client request on a Saturday because it wouldn't make any sense. Nothing is going to be accomplished on a Saturday or a Friday at 4pm. Urgent requests are subject to court schedule. I've never had a client call me on a Friday afternoon or over the weekend. I do have bosses who tell me that X needs to be accomplished by Monday and then the burden is on my to have it completed by working Saturday evening and a full day on Sunday.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:59 AM Flag-
OR: It's my job to anticipate what my client would need after submission. If questions arise late Friday afternoon (which has only happened 3x in the past 6 years) or Saturday (in which case I get to them personally that evening) then my PA sends the materials out.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:11 AM Flag
-
-
My DH is a partner in big law. Works many sat nights and sundays, and feels pressure to be extra attentive/responsive at all other times to make up for shabbat and holidays. Tells colleagues and clients up front that that's the situation, and gets folks to cover for him on shabbat/holidays. Not easy, but doable.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:16 AM Flagas partner, i'm sure it's easier to maneuver, big not ideal.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:21 AM FlagPresumably he kept this schedule as an associate, also. And it did not prevent him from becoming a partner.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:58 AM FlagOP here - correct. Also kept it as an associate. He actually feels more pressure now that he's a partner bc client relationships are his and it's harder for someone to cover for him. He hasn't had a non-working vacation since he made partner about 9 years ago for this reason
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 01:55 PM Flag
Trust me, every coworker who is EVER asked to cover for you on a Friday night or Saturday (canceling plans which are important to them) will be deeply resentful. I have been on the covering end (as a non-observant jew) in big law. Likely the people I covered for thought I wasn't resentful, but I was.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:25 AM FlagI'm Catholic and am happy to cover for those who will return the favor.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:27 AM Flagnp: I'm not sure you would feel this way after sacrificing numerous Friday and Saturday nights dealing with your coworker's projects, while you know that your coworker is home enjoying family time. It's also an awkward thing to ask for in return when you know that you do not have a legitimate reason to need someone to cover for you.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:31 AM FlagI'm not trying to be sanctimonious, believe me. I hear you. I'll cover happily provided the same person doesn't expect to reach me on Sunday morning, Good Friday, Christmas Eve/Day, Easter, etc. Your point that it's a weekly thing, however, is well-taken.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:32 AM FlagYes, it is weekly, and it is both Friday night and ALL DAY Saturday. If you are requesting not to be disturbed for a few hours on Sunday morning (when less work typically happens anyway), it is hardly in the same league.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:34 AM FlagIME observant Jews are just as likely to ask for time off at Christmas because their kids are on school break. Easter and Passover often fall around the same time, and again there can be a school break issue. When I had employees doing this the Christains absolutly resented the Jews asking for this time off.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:45 AM Flagnp: IME observant Jews don't send their kids to public school so this is not an issue.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:19 AM Flagit wasn't public schools. they were at Jewish schools that followed the vacation calendar of the public schools. I thought that was weird but that's what I was told.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:26 AM FlagWe have our kids at a Hebrew day school and the school follows the public school districts calendar. It's really just about following the federal holiday schedule. With the Jewish holidays thrown in, it is annoying during the early years when you need to find childcare.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:49 AM Flag
ooh good point. perhaps they wouldn't mind working christmas day for another colleague? or trading days or something like that?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:34 AM FlagHow can you compare one holiday per year to 1 evening and a full day per WEEK?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:38 AM FlagSorry, but most people do not work all day on Saturday and Sunday. They chose which day to go in. I work in biglaw. I know that I have to go in over the weekend, but I'm not in on both days. I, like most people in my dept, usually go in on Sunday.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:45 AM FlagIt has nothing to do with the number of hours that you are working. What if you have an urgent client matter on a Friday evening, or at Friday at 3 PM? Would you let it wait until Sunday or would someone handle it on Friday or Saturday?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:48 AM FlagThat's not my industry. We never had urgent client meetings in the evening. I work in commercial litigation. I've never experienced this issue.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:54 AM Flagyes, but as a corporate attorney, there are frequently things which do need (really or just because of a client made fake deadline) to be done friday night and saturday-frequently. I think that perhaps sabbath observers should consider practices/jobs where this is not such an issue (like the commercial litigator above)
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:21 AM Flag-
Not trying to ridicule you, but you obviously are not a lawyer. There are different types of law, and we call them "practice areas." Commercial litigation is a different practice area from corporate transactional work (mergers and acquisitions, capital markets, bank financing and some related activity). Very different jobs, although both may work for the same firm. The hours and lifestyle are quite different, and the comp can also be different.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 05:22 PM Flag
Yeah, I think the Jews have done well in finance and law and don't need to consider other career fields, lulz.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:41 AM FlagI love how the SAHMs have so much insight into this subject! Tell me, have you cancelled a date to pull an all nighter on someone else's deal because they are a sabbath observer and are leaving to observe with their family? Both finance and law have (wait for it) many, many subsets and some are much less likely to require working on sabbath (or weekend at all)-- asset management, trusts and estates, private equity fund (not buy out) work, employment, many kinds of litigation. Some subsets of both, however, do require 24/7 availability, including mergers/LBOs, capital markets (this means stock and debt offerings, which can be time sensitive) and possibly bankruptcy.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 05:30 PM Flag
-
I have had good and bad experiences with this, which is probably true for anything. I've had non-Christian co-workers cover for holidays and others who look me in the face and say they need to leave early (and I need to stay) on Christmas Eve because they're heading out on vacation.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:39 AM Flag
I actually really respect people who are this devout as I think it involves significant sacrifices. That said, I worked in a very presence-intensive law practice (i.e. TROs, police involvement, etc.) and it was really annoying as an associate to have the partner not just out of the office (not a big deal), but entirely AWOL and unreachable. It drove clients crazy, as well. I think there are certainly many fields in which keeping the Sabbath works just fine, though.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:26 AM FlagI have to chime in here with respect for those who stick to their rules. work isn't the be all and end all.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:33 AM FlagI respect those who stick to their rules and who make the appropriate financial sacrifice to do so. Many Sabbath-observers stick others with the work but expect to reap the same bounty.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:34 AM Flag
Is everybody listen to themselves. Are we slaves?. Are we deriding someone (no matter what religious beliefs or lack of tehm) bc it takes 24 consecutive hours off work. Maybe the rest of the team should make sure they create "a shabbat" for him/herself.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:41 AM FlagWe're talking about BIGLAW and finance. They are highly-remunerative, demanding jobs. There are plenty of less-demanding or differently-scheduled jobs that will accommodate a sabbath-observer.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:42 AM FlagI wish this could be possible. Unfortunately, being militant about having particular days/hours off in the name of religion is accepted, whereas being militant about having particular days/hours off because of your family obligations makes you look like a slacker.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:59 AM Flag-
Unfortunately this is not true IME (senior biglaw, ostensibly P/T). Have been asked over and over and over to make exceptions about day off, leaving early, spending all night/all weekend in the office - but Sabbath observers can't be asked to make exceptions bc religious observance is protected. I do NOT resent my observant colleagues, I resent the culture that makes it okay to ignore someone's negotiated terms of employment when it's "just" for family time. Not my observant colleagues' fault/issue, it's management's.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:40 AM FlagThe problem is that you are not considered a "good worker" if you are PT. This has a lot to do with it. It's not right, but IME, they are more apt to make adjustments for those who are FT and need to take time off for family, than for those who are PT.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:43 AM FlagRight, but if I were FT, I'd never be able to leave before 10 pm - worked like a maniac for years and years before DCs and took a big pay cut for the ability to say no, every once in a while, to a non-essential project. Really, it's a fundamental cultural problem in biglaw for everyone, not just parents, the observant, etc.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:49 AM Flag
-
Any observant Jew is going to discuss this at the interview. They were hired with a clear understanding of what this would mean. Any issues a co-worker has should be witht the company that hired this person, not the person.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:55 AM FlagI'm not observant, but I have worked with people who are and I have been both the co-worker and the client (former BigLaw associate, now in-house). I don't think it's generally as big of a deal as people are making out. If something is not done by 4pm on a Friday, it's probably not getting done until Monday anyway. The deal is not closing. The brief is not getting filed. There's work that needs to get done over the weekend, but people work around the schedule of the person that is unavailable.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:14 AM FlagYou are right in that this all has to do with the field you're in. In my field, plenty arises on Friday evenings and requires attention immediately (not necessarily a full weekend's worth of work, just putting out a fire). If that doesn't happen in your field, no big deal.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:22 AM Flag-
This. People are acting like major things are happening on Friday at 4pm. Nothing is happening. The client knows that a request on a Friday afternoon is not going to be fulfilled until Monday. And if this is just about "putting out a fire," then it sounds like you are just a complainer.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:36 AM Flagok, maybe in some - or even many - practices this is true but I have been on so many Friday night/Saturday morning conference calls that "had" to be done, and spent more weekends than I'd care to count at the printer for deals that had to launch first thing Monday.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:44 AM FlagYou were at the printer all day Saturday and Sunday? Do you not have an office staff that performs menial tasks?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:56 AM FlagHuh? In capital markets deals, it's not uncommon for working groups to gather at the financial printer to negotiate final disclosure and deal terms. Yes, junior associates and paralegals do the final proofreading but when stuff is being done in real time with clients/bankers in the room or on the phone, it's tough as the senior person to say you'll dial in from the playground. I'm not the one sitting there clearing blues at 4 a.m. but I sure as hell am expected to be available if the second-year finds something and has a question.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:02 AM Flag-
Nope, wrong again. Just work for a firm where senior people don't disappear. (And have a lot of clients who have their senior people sitting around at all hours too - they may be unusual in that regard.)
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:21 AM FlagThen yes, as many people have pointed out, the issue appears to be with your firm and not with the Orthodox Jewish workers.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:38 AM FlagYup, agree 100%. Some firms, and some clients, have expectations that are very difficult for the entire team, not just people with religious observances that happen to fall in the middle of what is considered work time. My point was that there are times when work "has" to be done on Fri nite/Sat. Doesn't mean I think it's right...
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:45 AM Flag
-
I work in IT with someone who keep Sabbath and refuse to work on Saturdays. Mind you, this guy still eats pork.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:48 AM Flaghere's what bothers me. I understand leaving early on Friday in the dead of Winter. In the summer, when it's light out until 8 or 9 some still leave early. When I, as their manager along with an HR rep, questions this they said they had to do things to prepare for the Sabbath like bathe and shop. Really? Coworkers need to cover for you so you can shop? You could have shopped on Thursday evening. Unfortunately HR was scared to do anything about this issue saying the company needed to be respectful of people's religous customs. IMO this screws people who have no religion or one that doesn't require them to take off work when others would be working.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 08:52 AM FlagMen need to "bathe" meaning that they need to pay a visit to a mikvah before Shabbat begins. It's a lengthy ritual. The women may need to do it as well, depending upon what is going on. As for the "shopping," the Jewish shops close early and shopping on Thursday is almost never a possibility due to the work schedule. Observant Jews do pay for taking time off - either financially, as noted above with the 20% reduction in pay - or professionally. The extra work put in during the week (work that you are probably not aware of) is hardship enough. No one is asking for your pity, though. If you were fully aware of the rigors that went into Shabbat, you'd be surprised that they even go to work on Friday. Imagine having to go into work until the afternoon and still have a fully cleaned house (requirement for Shabbat) and a Thanksgiving-type meal prepared for family/extended family by ~4pm (winter) and ~8pm (summer).
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:05 AM FlagImagine having to go into work until the afternoon and still have a fully cleaned house (requirement for Shabbat) and a Thanksgiving-type meal prepared for family/extended family by ~4pm (winter) and ~8pm (summer).
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:07 AM FlagIt's not as easy as it sounds. Unless you want dirty dishes sitting around the house - which is unacceptable - everything needs to be cleaned before the candles are lit and dinner is served. I used to be far more observant and Shabbat during the winter is madness. In the summer it is still a mad dash to the finish line, even if you get off at 4pm.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:09 AM Flag
what extra work do you think was put in during the week by people who reported to me that I was unaware of? If people can leave 2 hours before sunset in the winter, why do they need to leave 5 hours before sunset in the summer?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:12 AM FlagIf people are leaving only 2hrs prior to sunset, then they must be having Shabbat at someone else's house that week! IME, people leave at 1pm during the winter and 4pm during the summer. Even so, this doesn't lend to a leisurely preparation of the holiday, which was the implication in your description that people are taking off early to bathe and shop! IME, leaving at 1pm in the winter means that you take the subway home and stop by one or two of the local kosher delis/restaurants/shops (pick up side dishes that you pre-ordered because I don't know any WOHM OJ who prepares the whole meal herself, it's not possible unless you started that morning. And these places are packed because half the women in the nabe are on the same schedule), get home by ~2:30pm, throw the roast/chicken in the oven and some final side dishes, do a final tidy-up (this is where a cleaning lady comes in very handy), shower, check on dinner, check final messages from work, do hair/makeup, bring out the china, put everything in serving dishes, clean up kitchen/dishes, set up activities for young children, welcome in-laws and the dozen nieces/nephews that will likely stop by, serve dinner, light candles.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:37 AM Flagthere was nothing about a leisurely preperation implied in my post. I posted what I had been told at the meeting with HR. FWIW, the person in question walked home from work and his wife didn't work.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:40 AM FlagYou asked why someone would need to leave 5hrs early in the summer when they only leave 2hrs early in the winter. It's because Shabbat starts so early in the winter and leaving at 11am is not an option. So, during the winter season, many people make plans to have dinner at the ILs or, more often, just order in the entire dinner. It's not ideal, but a sacrifice you make during the winter season if you work in a demanding job.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:04 AM Flagthank you for answering the questions. why can't they do they same in the summer? the job is still demanding in the summer and their coworkers would like to leave early in the summer to enjoy the nice weather but can't. this leads to resentment.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:06 AM FlagIt only leads to resentment if the employee isn't getting their work done prior to leaving. That's not the situation with successful people. In your situation, you wanted to fire someone who wasn't meeting his goals, that doesn't apply to all Orthodox Jews. As for not wanting to do the same during the summer. It's not the proper way of celebrating the holidays. You are not meeting your requirements. I try to order in dinner as infrequently as possible. We don't have family nearby, so when I know I'm going to be held up at work, I call around to friends to see if they have room for my family. It's a religious requirement to extend your table for those who wouldn't be able to celebrate the holiday appropriately. So, while it sounds strange to "impose" it's preferable to ordering in from the local deli.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:11 AM Flag
As for the extra work that was put in, if they weren't getting their jobs done, they would be fired. Your claim that HR is "afraid" to do so sounds like sour grapes. Jewish finance/law people get laid off/fired left and right. You are wrong if you think we are protected.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:40 AM Flagagain, I was the persons manager (actually 2 people). The meeting with HR was with the intent of laying the ground work for firing this person. At that firm at that time it was a lengthy process involving weekly meetings for months to document how the employee was not meeting goals. Not working enough hours was a topic that was raised. HR did say to me that we had to be very careful with OJs so that it didn't apprear they were being targetted for obeying their religions laws. Maybe that HR rep was incorrect but that is what I was told. Luckily a few months later we had lay offs and I could get rid of the person without needing all the documentation required to fire them.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:45 AM Flag??? So your problem isn't with Orthodox Jews. It's with workers who aren't meeting their quotas. I hope that you can differentiate the two from now on.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:07 AM Flagof course my problem isn't with Orthodox Jews in general. It is with OJs who don't work Friday evening and Saturday when other team members have to, do nothing to make this up to their teammates, ask for vacation time at Christmas because that's when they want to take a trip, etc. If anyone else was doing this they would be fired more easily that someone who is claiming a religious reason for some of that time.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:10 AM Flag
Shabbat is never as late at 9pm. 8:11pm is the latest that is was held this past summer. That means things must be finished by 8:11pm, not "in progress."
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:42 AM FlagOK. What's the earliest it is in the winter and would you agree that the difference between that time and 8:11 is also the difference needed in the time one would need to leave work on a Friday? In other words if you have to leave at 1:00 in Dec. how late could you stay in June?
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:56 AM FlagFor 2011-2012, the earliest time is 4:10pm (this means that Shabbat is over at ~5:15pm on Saturday, still plenty of time to make calls/work, which is what I do) and the latest is in July at 8:14pm. Here's a link for 2011-2012 if you are interested: http://www.chabad.org/calendar/candleLighting.asp?c=370&tDate=12%2F5%2F2011&weeks=52. If I need to leave at 1pm in Dec (which is really the only month Shabbat starts at ~4pm, it goes up an hour in Jan), I would probably stay until 4-5pm during the summer months.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 10:21 AM Flag
I'm in this boat and though I am never available on Saturday, I'm always there to work on Thanksgiving, Christmas, July 4th.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 09:51 AM Flagnot resentful per se, but it definitely raised eye brows when Jewish colleague of mine "became observant" when she started dating a new guy (leaving early for Sabbath, leaving the rest of us doing her work). She didn't observe before she met him or after she broke up with him. not cool.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 03:55 PM FlagI don't know if anyone is still reading this, but I thought I'd chime in with my own experience as an OJ big firm litigator. First, it is absolutely possible to stay at work later in the summer. In the dead of winter I leave at 2, but in the summer I can stay until 6. It takes me an hour to get home and then I like to have an hour to shower/dress/set table/prepare food. Many people, especially men, walk in the door 5 minutes before Shabbat so they can spend as much time as possible at work. In the winter, I sign back on Sat as soon as Shabbat is over, so around 5 pm. Second, it definitely reflects poorly on me that I am not available 24/7. While no one has ever said anything to me specifically, I have a strong feeling I have been passed over for work because of it. Third, I agree with the posters above who said that everyone should take time out for themselves and their family. I really believe that people should be courageous enough to say they're not available for X hours on Sunday because they will be in church/with family, etc. It's not my problem if others aren't secure enough to do that.
[ Reply | More ]12.05.11, 07:13 PM Flag
[+] Hi, I am a DH and brand new to Urban Baby. I grew up in NY, went to P.S. 114 in Bay R... 34 replies
- family of 3. i've yet to start looking at real estate prices. figured I'd start with the important stuff first....
Talk : : December 03, 2011
Hi, I am a DH and brand new to Urban Baby. I grew up in NY, went to P.S. 114 in Bay Ridge, Bklyn and Stuyvesant H.S. I left the city 15 years ago, and now looking to come back with my two DCs, boy 7 in 2nd grade and girl 5 in K. I am wondering if folks could make suggestions of best schools in Manhattan. I would prefer to stay within the public school system (I thought it worked fine for me), but also interested in hearing your thoughts on private options. Thanks.
34 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.03.11, 07:47 PM Flag ]Ps 6 in the UES. What's your housing budget and where I'd you live before?
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 07:53 PM Flag-
I grew up in Bay Ridge as well, have two kids in public in Manhattan now, but you have to get in that school for K entry, go to the DOE website and look at the score reports, you can download the spreadsheet and get a pretty good idea of the better schools. Any idea of what neighborhood you are looking at?
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 08:00 PM Flag^ also take a look at schoolfisher.com, I looked at it when it first came out and thought its school recommendations were good, one caveat: the author is married to a major charter school founder - so take the charter school recommendations with that in mind.
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 08:07 PM FlagThanks I got the report, it's helpful. I looked at the top 20 schools by rankings and filtered by neighborhoods that seem livable (personal preference). They are P.S. 031 Samuel F. Dupont P.S. 257 John F. Hylan P.S. 172 Beacon School of Excellence P.S. 184m Shuang Wen The Anderson School P.S. 002 Meyer London P.S. 380 John Wayne Elementary Any thoughts?
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 08:56 PM Flag-
NP: 172 in Sunset Park - Strong Principal faculty is very involved with assessing student needs, parents are invested intheir kids education - probably cloe to 185/114 of years ago. Shuang Wen, dual language Mandarin, intense work goes to 5:PM D1 Preference not a zone. Anderson school is PS 9 - different than the G&T Anderson which shares the name. I would not limit it to the top 20 because you will miss lots of good schools - probably look in the top 100.
[ Reply | More ]12.04.11, 06:03 AM Flag^Eg. Since you mentioned Sunset Park - There are a dozen schools from Park Slope to Mill Basin that are also good. PS 107 Park Slope, 321Park Slope, 185 Bay Ridge, 195 Manhattan Beach, 222 Marine Park, Dyker Heights has a couple very strong as well ( I forget the #s). There is a similar list for Manhattan or Queens. The elementary schools are probably stronger than when we grew up here, the High Schools are just as good, finding the right middle school is the trick these days, good luck.
[ Reply | More ]12.04.11, 06:07 AM FlagThanks. I'm very encouraged by your perspective. Having been away for so long one fears the worst. But overall I am hearing a very positive vibe in the responses, which is a big relief. I think my plan is to do as much internet research as I can and then go see the schools physically, and may be once I have narrowed it down to 2 or 3, see if i can manage a face to face with someone (a principal, a guidance counselor, dk who else). Dk if that'll work, but that's my thought right now.
[ Reply | More ]12.04.11, 06:39 AM Flag
-
I don't know most of those schools but Anderson is test-in g&t (not zoned) and I thought Shuang Wen was too although that may have a gen ed component. If the schools have both gen ed and g&t the scores can be tricky to compare because they mix the scores of both gen ed and g&t together and you'd want to know how the gen ed scores were (your chances for getting g&t go down with each grade and you want to place 2 kids so a good gen ed is probably your best bet),
[ Reply | More ]12.04.11, 01:12 AM Flag
-
Get off, get off!! For the love of all that is good and in the name of your free time, get off!!!!
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 08:38 PM FlagThere are a few good districts. One caveat, I know in my zone, the village they are redrawing and changing the lines so you'll want to research if there are going to be changes. If the present plan goes through, I would not have been able to send my child to the school I wanted her to go to. So glad we're done with elem.
[ Reply | More ]12.04.11, 06:40 AM Flag
[+] Please help us find a neighborhood to live. Moving to NYC with 2 dc (in K and 3rd). N... 17 replies
- Yes, but considering options - and the real estate websites only tell you so much...
Talk : : December 02, 2011
Please help us find a neighborhood to live. Moving to NYC with 2 dc (in K and 3rd). Need to be close to midtown east (up to 30-40 mins commute). Applied to loads of private schools in all over Manhattan and in Brooklyn to keep options open and will also consider public if end up in good zone with no waitlist.Budget of $5-6000 for 3 bed apartment (don't care if DM but do want 3rd bedroom). Where do you recommend?? TIA
17 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.02.11, 04:34 PM Flag ]-
-
-
UES is not for everybody. What are you like OP? You may be more of a UWS, downtown or Brooklyn type. Tell us about yourself and we'll try to help you find a spot.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:21 PM FlagWell, we're expats, moving from London. In London. we'd be most attracted to leafy inner suburbs like Highgate, Richmond, Belsize Park, Chiswick, if you know those areas. We quite liked the vibe of the UWS around the 100s, less keen on UES but would consider for convenience of commute (seems like we could find in budget east of 3rd avenue). Like the idea of Brooklyn but haven't a clue about it!
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 10:33 AM Flag
-
-
-
What about a Glenwood Building - I think (may be wrong) you can get a 3 bedroom in Murray Hill for that price. Maybe a 3 BR convertible on the UES. Probably has nice amenities, too, and no fee. Check Glenwood properties website or Glenwood management (not sure which)
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:36 PM FlagDepends on what kind of neighborhood you like, or what you expect in an apartment, amenities-wise. We went with East Village, as we didn't like the UES. Downside with EV public schools is that there are no guaranteed zoned schools, though. I think you can also find things in Murray Hill in your budget, which would be very convenient for work.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 10:12 PM Flag
[+] Do you ever feel like saving isn't worth it because dollar is weak and inflation is u... 37 replies
- That's how people behave in Argentina, with 25% inflation. Buy real estate. In NYC. Will hold value when the inflation comes, which...and have space for it. But as an investment? A yard sale/estate sale is no way to fund retirement....
- grew up being told that if we go to college and work hard, we'll get good jobs and real estate will always increase in value and we'll have big retirement funds. We jsut have to deal with the...
Talk : : December 02, 2011
Do you ever feel like saving isn't worth it because dollar is weak and inflation is unavoidable. I just wonder whether I am better off just spending the money on things I will enjoy long term, such as art, nice furniture etc.
37 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.02.11, 12:48 PM Flag ]I wonder whether saving isn't worth it because everyone else seems to get away with buying whatever they want on credit and just blowing it off when the bills come around. I feel like a chump.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 12:59 PM FlagThat's how people behave in Argentina, with 25% inflation. Buy real estate. In NYC. Will hold value when the inflation comes, which it will.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 01:05 PM Flag-
If inflation is bad enough, selling items I get now will be more profitable than whatever cash I can put away
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 01:14 PM Flag-
nah, used furniture unless it's collectible is not going to provide for your retirement.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 01:34 PM Flagop: I am talking about collectibles, art etc. I am not talking about Pottery Barn. For example I can buy an older Steinway.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 01:37 PM Flag
-
-
-
-
I know nothing about stocks (I doubt I would do well, infect my 401K is worth less then it was 10 years ago) and bonds offer very low interest right now, don't they?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 01:19 PM Flag
-
-
I know it's frustrating, because we grew up being told that if we go to college and work hard, we'll get good jobs and real estate will always increase in value and we'll have big retirement funds. We jsut have to deal with the reality, that it isn't always so. No, your savings won't be worth what they might have been worth in better times - but less-than-you-hoped-for is still better than waking up at 65 with nothing but furniture. Save what you can, but diversify. If we've learned anything over the last 12 years, it's that there's no golden egg and no sure thing.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 03:01 PM Flag
[+] Looking for some advice. My husband and I are divorcing. I work in midtown and woul... 60 replies
- Your real estate dollars will go farthest in the Bronx. The Yankee Stadium area is about 20 minutes to Grand Central. There's access to both east and west side trains (4, 2, B/D). Are...
Talk : : December 02, 2011
Looking for some advice. My husband and I are divorcing. I work in midtown and would prefer a short commute over nearly anything else. I can only afford 1800-1900 a month (I know this is a small amount) and I am looking for a 1 bedroom. Can anyone recommend any good neighborhoods to look at that fit my parameters? I don't mind any borough, I just really want to keep my commute as short as possible. Thank you!
60 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.02.11, 07:40 AM Flag ]Midtown East or West - if East, look for a walkup in Yorkville or Murray Hill, if West, I'd go to Hell's Kitchen (Clinton Hill)
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:41 AM Flag-
-
ditto. I have lived in both, very family friendly, a lot of shops, restaurants and safe. In Astoria I like the areas around 30Av and Ditmars stations. In Astoria yo may even be able to get a smaller/older 2BD for that amount, but definitely a very good 1BD
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:57 AM FlagOP here. I really like Astoria. A few of my friends live their and they all rave about it, but I looked on hopstop and it says that even in the closer sections it will take me about 45-50 minutes (depending on where in Astoria) to get to work. Is this not the case?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:02 AM Flagnp: I think you're going to have to settle for a longer commute. I just don't think there's a commutable area that's cheap. I used live off the 30th Ave/Broadway stops and commuted in. It's not too bad. You could also look at Inwood--my friend lives up there and takes the A train down.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:03 AM Flagnp: oh please. Don't listen to this OP. I live in LIC for less than 1900 and have a very short commute to where OP works. Inwood is the worst advice!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:06 AM Flagsp: Why? I've visited my friend. Has a large 2bd with eat in kitchen near the park. It's a neighborhood with lots of artists,musicians. Unless you have a specific criticism, I'm not sure why. Astoria/LIC is nice but it's certainly not a 20 minute commute door to door--I lived there. It takes about 10 minutes to walk to the train, then wait time etc. It's just not realisitically 15-20 minutes to the midtown.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:16 AM Flagwhere exactly in LIC? The best area is he waterfront and close to Vernon. Mosat 1BD go for $2,500 and up. If you are going east of 11st, it's not pretty and very few amenities. And if we are talking Queensboro plaza, please, that's a horrible place for a family.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:17 AM FlagOP said she wanted a short commute, she didn't mention the beauty of an area as something we should consider with our advice.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:20 AM Flagwell, I see it nice to recommend family friendly areas to a single mother that can still be a good commute.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:25 AM Flagpp: but Inwood is NOT a good commute. That is like living in the boondocks.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:28 AM FlagI was recommending Astoria and Sunnyside rather than the worse parts of LIC.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:30 AM FlagI've lived in Astoria for a LONG time. Try to get a place that is close to the N and R (Bway TO 34TH aVE,32 to 36 street, so that you have 2 subway stations.. It is very convenient. You even have a bus on Steinway that stops on 58 and second ave in manhattan.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 09:59 AM Flag
It's definitely not the case. Look near broadway or 36th avenue stops. There are nice prewar elevator buildings there with huge 1br (I lived in one with dh and db for a year before we moved to something bigger) or small 2brs. It's 3 stops to 59th and lex from broadway.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:06 AM Flag
OP here. Thanks for all the replies so far! I work near Midtown Center.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:45 AM Flag-
We love it, but unfortunately is has gotten out of control, it'll be very hard to find even 1BD for that amount, unless she looks further from the waterfront, in which case I would recommend Astoria.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:58 AM Flagseriously. hipsters/yuppies/realtors ruined LIC and it's now more than much of Manhattan. joke!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:00 AM Flag-
It's trendy but a little desolate at night. I wouldn't live there over a more family friendly area.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:04 AM FlagIt is very family friendly. yes, you right it's a bit desolate at night, but there is such a sense of community, people are down to earth, we made tons of friends and so I see did everybody else. People really get to know each other, hang out together in the park or the terraces of the buildings, BBQ together, it feels more like a vertical village that's close to the city. And Vernon has a good selection of restaurants and bars.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:10 AM Flag
-
Quick question OP, what about DH moving out of the place you now share? Makes more sense doesn't it for him to move....
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:53 AM Flag-
Right but this is a partnership and you are under contract to provide for this child and as the parent who has to have the child, he should and will pay support payments so YOUanafford the rent. The mother in a divorce never leaves the residence, Do you have a lawyer>
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:00 AM Flag
-
Your real estate dollars will go farthest in the Bronx. The Yankee Stadium area is about 20 minutes to Grand Central. There's access to both east and west side trains (4, 2, B/D). Are schools a concern?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:24 AM Flag-
-
Roosevelt Island. Seriously. very cheap. Big apartments. Lots of playgrounds. tons of kids. Not the new expensive building on the south end but the older ones on the north end. My kids went to a day care on East 60th street and they both had several kids in their classes who lived on Roosevelt Island in those older buildings.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 10:06 AM Flag
[+] Saw the "Realtors are useless" post from last night, and wanted to make a comment. I... 65 replies
- np: I work in sales (not real estate) and this is how it always is behind the scenes. The...
- We should all get together and start a NYC real estate cooperative. We can facilitate each other's deals in exchange for a small, flat fee. The owner is responsible for...I'm not in NYC but we have our own particular crazy real estate market here. I won't bore you with the details but...
Talk : : December 02, 2011
Saw the "Realtors are useless" post from last night, and wanted to make a comment. I also agree that they are mostly useless, but having sold my apt on my own, I can say that the value they add is during the negotiation stage. It's very difficult for the seller to negotiate effectively with the buyer, and it is awkward for the buyer as well. Having that person in the middle helps the deal move along and close faster. That being said, you can probably pay a friend $1,000 to sit in a few open houses and handle the phone calls of the negotiation.
65 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.02.11, 05:25 AM Flag ]One part of the equation people have not touched on is their general attitude. Perhaps if they were less aggressive, rude and just low down people might not dislike the profession and be more willing to pay them for their limited services. Dealing with realtors is a most unpleasant experience.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:31 AM FlagI could not agree more. I happen to be an informed buyer and know what I want. When I walk into an open house and I have a realtor flat out LIE to me, or become aggressive about things that I point out about the property, it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I no longer want to do business with them.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:35 AM FlagAbsolutely and sadly decent brokers tend to be the exception rather than the rule. The lies are unbearable. Plus I would believe most buyers once they have been out for a month or so know what they want, what should be priced at X or Y and really do not need anyone to move their hand like Vanna White and say 'Granite counter tops'.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:40 AM FlagLet's not forget the lying about schools, neighborhood, building, etc. They are no better than a used car salesman.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:48 AM FlagAH I have never had one lie to be about the schools or neighborhood, do tell.....
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:51 AM FlagI'm in Brooklyn, where it is easier to get away with. They market the property as XYZ neighborhood (some even have the audacity to say "Prime"), but it can either be on the extreme outskirts or just flat out in a completely different area. With respect to the schools, they will tell you that the school has improved dramatically over the years, and their friends are sending their kids there, etc. If you research on your own, you will find that it is a failing school with limited hope for improvement any time soon.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:59 AM Flag
Let's not forget about the co-op board lies. "Oh, this is an easy board. They won't have a problem with any of the work you want to do. It's all so easy, no problem!"
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:03 AM Flag
yes and no matter what your budget they will try to tell you that you aren't going to get what you want in that price range, but I go to them w/ a lot of research. And I've seen the same apartment they showed me on CL for hundreds of dollars less a month.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:51 AM Flag
On that old post I saw not a single person justify a realtor fee. All the pro-brokers could do was complain that some sort of random service was provided and deserved payment but no one seemed able to say that the level of services deserved that sort of payment. So they open doors....and should be paid....and?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:47 AM FlagOP: I think there should be a small fee for facilitating the deal and negotiating. Also, they should be paid some hourly fee for the time they spend during showings. The 6% fee that they are paid is so disproportionate to their level of service, it should be illegal.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:50 AM FlagI agree. I am not suggesting that they not be given some sort of flat fee for helping a sale along by being present to refill the coffee during open houses and to be fielding negotiations (though I have NEVER had s realtor do anything but push me to just take the offer so they get more money for less time), but it should be nominal.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:54 AM FlagTrue, but think about how awkward it would be to do this on your own. They do handle some of the unpleasant aspects of the deal, like setting deadlines and pushing the negotiation along. I know I would not feel right telling someone "you have until 5 PM today or we are walking", but a realtor can easily say something equivalent to that.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:06 AM Flagnp - I was privy to a realtor to realtor negotiating discussion it was such an insider discussion. One realtor telling the other what his clients would really do and what their strategy was, horrible. They are out only for themselves and screw all of us without thinking twice
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:08 AM Flag
There's no law that requires you to pay 6%. Plenty of people don't. (And as plenty of people have pointed out, you are 100% free not to use a broker at all.)
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:06 AM FlagWe have heard this over and over from either you or another pro-broker poster. Can you please justify the payment for the actual services?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:10 AM FlagNo justification is required. You signed a contract for someone to provide certain services to you for a certain price. If you didn't want the services or didn't like the price, you should have negotiated a different deal. (And I'm not pro-broker at all, BTW. I'm just anti-YOU.)
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:17 AM FlagYet again, no justification. You, yes YOU, are a moron. Good day.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:18 AM FlagJust give an explanation of why you feel they are worth not just a fee but the LEVEL OF FEE they receive!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:19 AM FlagI have only sold once, but it was worth it TO ME. We relocated quickly and listed our home after we moved and my realtor was quite good. We didn't pay the "standard" 6% either - the fee varied based on the price and also whether or not there was a co-broker. I'm sort of indifferent as a buyer, but on balance I'd probably prefer to pay the increased market price associated with a commission than have to deal directly with the seller. 2 of our 3 sellers were difficult bordering on completely insane.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:01 AM Flag
And let's not forget the built-in conflict of interest: doing the negotiating for both sides, when their commish is directly tied to how high the purchase price is.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:12 AM FlagOutside of NYC, there are usually 2 realtors involved - one for the buyer and one for the seller. They split the commission 50/50. In NYC, some of the larger firms (at least one large one that I know of) refuses to co-broke and they demand the entire 6% fee for themselves. They are also notorious for inflating the prices dramatically. I bypass most of their listings now and wait for them to drop the price.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:15 AM Flag
The value in our realtor was that had lived in the building, been a member of the board and knew who would/ not pass the interview. The board was notoriously bad( we did not know this when buying the apt). He returned the board application 3 times to the buyers realtor until it was complete and would be accepted.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:12 AM FlagThis is obviously a unique situation and hardly warrants a blanket 6% commission.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:16 AM FlagTrue, but the poster above said that no one had justified their realtor fee. In my own experience it was justified.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:19 AM FlagSo if your apartment was worth $700k, you think that monitoring the co-op board application is worth $42k?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:22 AM Flagnp if it made the deal then yes, it could be worth 42K (rather than having the property sit on the market for another 6 months or whatever).
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:46 AM FlagBut this is a ridiculous assumption! You cannot seriously believe that your apartment would never have sold had it not been for some realtor. Maybe in your specific and rare example, yes, but you cannot compare that to the majority of sales and say that buyers would never have been interested in your place unless a realtor listed it
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:56 AM FlagI'm not the OP actually but clearly, whatever her circumstances she did think it was worth the cost. I also think my realtor more than paid for her herself in the way she finessed our particular deal (but I
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:59 AM Flag^^I'm not in NYC but we have our own particular crazy real estate market here. I won't bore you with the details but in our case, the agent's knowledge and negotiation skills were absolutely key. A comparable house could have easily cost us more than 10% and another 6 months of looking. I'm not saying brokers always earn their fee but in some cases, definitely so, and I think co-op seller OR knows her particular situation better than you; maybe they were simply desperate to sell & running up credit card debt to pay their mortgage, so another month or two on the market would have cost them more than the agent's fee.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:07 AM FlagMaybe so, and I will conceded that some may earn their wage but on the whole I think probably not.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:11 AM FlagAnd I can concede there are issues with the system. In our area the agents and bidding wars are part of what's driving up the prices. But given our current system and wanting to buy in a competitive area we needed a good agent to help navigate. People can avoid a lot of this by buying less desirable properties that have been on the market for a while, etc, and for that, I'm not sure an agent would be as important.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:18 AM Flag
I wonder why those discount brokers like "Foxtons" did not last. It's a shame that there's no middle ground, where we can pay for a realtor to facilitate the negotiation, but we will take responsibility for marketing the property ourselves.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:24 AM FlagAgent here: I think I am really good at what I do (and my evidence for that is a high percentage of repeat business/referrals from my clients) but I cannot tell you how much business I lose to people who flat-out lie to gain one advantage or the other. No one hates brokers more than other brokers do!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:37 AM FlagWhat parts of the job are you good at? What do you think the value of a realtor is?
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:44 AM FlagAgent: I work a fairly "boutique" business, so to my clients, a lot of the value is time: they make $400k-$5MM a year, so to pay me what ends up being maybe $75-$100/hr. to take care of a financial transaction so it doesn't blow up in their face is well worth it to them. (Average agent in the U.S., btw., makes about $40K a year). To the Hollywood relos (who in my business are mostly renters), it's that I can find something that they can't: like I'm another kind of personal shopper. To the tech kids (who are mostly buyers), the value is in using me as insurance: yes they can walk through an apartment themselves, but no, they can't see the incipient mold or understand the building financials, so I can keep them from making a big mistake. To the two-income families (who are mostly sellers), it's just outsourcing the complexity of the task. Yes they could hold open houses and conduct negotiation, but not as well as I can, and these are people who outsource everything from laundry to school tutoring, so to them I'm just another part of the service economy. Those points above are the "standard" value-adds. The highest value-add is really in non-cookie-cutter properties, where the pricing is uncertain and I can really define pricing and make a market -- more like being an art dealer. Of course that's both the most fun and the most competitive part of the business.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:58 AM FlagThanks for your thoughtful response. You sound like you might actually be a good agent (especially if you are helping your clients avoid properties with mold, etc), which is rare in your field.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:03 AM FlagNP: I agree you do sound like you are a professional who adds value and does not simply open doors in between acting auditions
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:13 AM FlagSadly, I do lose a lot of business to those people. I am seeing an agent now gaining increasing success in the high-end space .. and she's a former personal trainer! Every "should I get botox" thought I might have had in corporate world is magnified in this (which is essentially sales). But I guess every profession has its thorns...
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:19 AM Flag
Shows like "Selling New York" has made me despise them even more than I did before!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:45 AM FlagAgent again: I know just about everyone on the show! As you know if you live in NYC, it's not a very accurate picture because a decent co-op is not even going to allow a camera crew in the building -- so you get a lot of condos. Also they make it look really huckster-y in order to add narrative -- an industry average pitch-to-close time is six months, which isn't very good TV!
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:49 AM Flag
We should all get together and start a NYC real estate cooperative. We can facilitate each other's deals in exchange for a small, flat fee. The owner is responsible for marketing the property and finding someone to sit through the open houses. Who is in??
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 06:58 AM FlagJust to put the $ in perspective - the fee on a $1M apartment is $60K. Generally, the listing agent themselves sees only $15K of that. Gross. He/She pays her own taxes and FICA. So take home is probably around $6K. And don't forget, while the transaction that goes through might not seem like a lot of work or time, the agent has put in a lot of time on the many apartments you looked at or buyers that jerked you around and never closed.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:10 AM FlagLike most fields, there are gems and there are duds. And then there are scumbags. The first time I ever bought anything I was looking on my own--just going to open houses and responding to ads. I ended up buying a co-op without representation of my own (except my lawyer, of course). The listing agent was very familiar with the building, and her goal was to get a deal done, so she had both sides' interests at heart. She was so helpful to us, not her client, who was the seller, that I subsequently used her 2 more times and would recommend her to anyone. She absolutely added value and earned her fee.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 08:39 AM Flag
[+] Trying to sell our apartment - getting no bites and then the runaround from potential... 12 replies
Talk : : December 01, 2011
Trying to sell our apartment - getting no bites and then the runaround from potential buyer. I thought NYC real estate was immune from the real estate crisis. Am I being totally nieve - should we be lowering our expectations substantially? Anyone else having selling woes???
12 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.01.11, 08:37 PM Flag ]
[+] Realtor question - please justify your income to all of us. I really need to know ho... 56 replies
- only proves OPs point. The value of people in real professions, which I have, is not in question....
- is different, however I think you for the first real response....
- involving their homes are correspondingly important. To the very real degree that brokers facilitate these transactions, they provide an...has modified to allow for easy booking by individuals, real estate laws could also have been boiled down to...
Talk : : December 01, 2011
Realtor question - please justify your income to all of us. I really need to know how it is that you justify being nothing more than a middle man brokering an apartment I can find online and negotiate deal with owner on my own. Oh, and I can open the door by myself as well. TIA
56 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.01.11, 08:00 PM Flag ]Hated mine for this reason, didn't think they added value. I guess I was just a sucker trying to sell a
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:01 PM FlagiPad oops. Sell an apartment in a tough market so I did what I was told. Didn't think they added value and I had to force feed them our particular co ops idiosyncrasies
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:03 PM Flag-
Bc both of us have jobs and though we knew she wasn't providing true value for her fee we just had a particularly tough and hectic time at our jobs. Otherwise we would have done it ourselves
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:33 PM FlagSo, you needed this person and you don't think she should be compensated? What would you have considered sufficient 'work' to have added enough value to have earned her fee?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:39 PM Flag-
NP. How so. She's making a good point. You choose to use this non-essential service while saying there you don't understand the purpose.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 04:31 AM Flagnp - I think what OP or OR is saying is that the fee is grossly disproportionate to the service, does that make sense. I would only pay someone 15% of the purchase price of a property if they built 15% of it or saved me 30%. We all know neither of those things every happen with brokers
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:34 AM Flag
-
-
Sounds like you need to get over yourself. Glad I'm not your realtor.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:02 PM FlagGet over myself? How in the world does my comment imply I have ego issues? I am asking you pointedly to justify your income and your value. Clearly you may need to get over yourself.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:10 PM Flag
I obtained a broker's license to facilitate my investment purchases and sales. So, I can be my own agent. But I now usually use a broker to sell. Why? Its hard to be objective about one's own place. Also, brokers only get paid when a deal closes, and the good ones excel at getting deals to close. And, in the end, that's what people really want. Also, brokers spend a lot of time on showings that go nowhere. When a deal closes, it often looks like they put in no time, but, in most cases, a lot of frogs have been kissed. FInally, if you think its such easy money, you should get a license - its a field with low barriers to entry (and low average incomes).
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:15 PM Flag-
I'm in NYC. In NYC, lay people (and agents) apply the term 'broker' to sales agents, which is the license I have. I was following that convention. The sales agent license covers my needs, and the 1 deal I closed for someone else doesn't qualify me for a broker's license. But I don't see how the license changes the nature of the animal.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:26 PM Flag
sounds to me as if you are sales agent and not a full time broker, which is different, however I think you for the first real response.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:21 PM FlagSomeone with a broker's license can work part-time. And someone with a sales agent license can work full-time. Broker just has more training and has closed more deals. Is a licensed or tenured teacher better than an unlicensed one working in a private school?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:30 PM FlagA broker has a lot more responsibility than that. As a sales agent, you have to work for a broker who holds all of the financial records, etc. You make it sound like you're a one woman band and you aren't.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:48 PM FlagThe broker's holding the financial records and signing the paperwork doesn't make him the leader of the band. A broker can be an important figurehead, guide, and mentor. But a broker can also be a mute functionary. And, BTW, OP asked about 'realtors', a copyrighted term which includes sales agents. As I indicated, I used 'broker' because it is the term people use in NYC for sales agents, as well as for those who hold the brokers license.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 09:45 PM Flag
-
When owner works (or both work, if a couple), how are they going to show the apartment during the day?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:19 PM FlagHonestly, hire the babysitter to stage the house and open the door for three hours. Pay an extra $80 and you are done. Open houses should be empty. If a potential buyer likes the space they will bid. No one ever decided to buy a place they didn't like because the realtor followed them around the open house pointing to closet space and making inane comments about clearly visible attributes about the apartment
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:22 PM FlagSo you're saying youbwoukd hire someone to provide you with this service, and then pay them for it? But that would be ok, because said someone would not be a broker.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:28 PM FlagBecause the babysitter will be able to tell the buyer how much in liquid assets the buyer needs to have to pass the board, right?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:31 PM Flag
If you dislike brokers so much, why don't you really just do everything yourself? And put an end to these "I hate brokers" posts.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:24 PM FlagReally. No one's forcing you to use a broker. I've sold a co-op myself and two others with brokers. It's far, far easier with a broker. I'm a busy person with a f/t job and three kids - any time I'm spending selling my apartment is time not earning money or not with my kids.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:29 PM Flag
There is no justification. They've wired the system to make themselves necessary, and can take huge fees because, for most people, it's financed. The mortgage interest deduction contributes. The process is needlessly complicated.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 09:03 PM FlagAgree. They have wired the entire industry to make them more "necessary" though even with their attempts to do so their value is still questionable and more easily overcome than say, hiring someone who is not a doctor to operate on you.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 09:10 PM FlagIts always nice to hear how the conspiracy theorists see things; either they hit the nail on the head, or they provide comic relief and expose the bitterness driving many on their side.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 09:53 PM FlagIs your theory that brokers and doctors are equal partners in terms of the value they add? There is no bitterness regarding a dislike of brokers, that they are at best a time saver but thought expendable is a universal truth
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:07 PM FlagPeople's homes are typically very important to them financially, practically, and emotionally. And transcations involving their homes are correspondingly important. To the very real degree that brokers facilitate these transactions, they provide an important service. I'm not going to debate contribution relative to other professions. "Thought expendable is a universal truth" reads like a poor, machine translation, and doesn't detract from values brokers provide.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 04:57 AM Flag
The difference is - you need a doctor. I repeat, no one is forcing you to use a broker. If you don't want to don't --obviously, enough other people find value to keep the profession alive.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:07 PM FlagNP: Not so sure that their role is kept alive because other people find them valuable or believe they are valuable. There is a lot of evidence to support that they insert themselves into the market. IMO at this stage with the internet and direct access to listings for individuals it should have gone the way of travel agents in terms of usefulness. Don't you think to a large extent they have designed things to support their continued employment?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:43 PM Flag'They insert themselves into the market' is vacuous cynicism when it is 100% possible to complete a real estate trasnsaction without a broker. Don't understand what it means to say that brokers SHOULD have gone the way of travel agents in terms of usefulness; perhaps brokers shouldn't be useful, but they are (as is a good travel agent - travel agency declined when airlines and hotels stopped paying them a cut. Doesn't mean that they weren't useful).
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:10 AM Flagrealtors are even less effective and necessary than a travel agent. just as online travel has modified to allow for easy booking by individuals, real estate laws could also have been boiled down to a more user friendly method but that was blocked to ensure brokers did not fall by the wayside, and you know that.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 05:43 AM Flag
Brokers add no less value than most mutual fund workers or even many hedge fund workers. In both cases, their income cones from being 'close to the money'. A small percentage of a big investment is big money. Index funds outperform most mutual funds and many hedge funds so, really, a computer can outcompete most. They're still rich.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 03:24 AM FlagIn New York they do less than they do in other states. In many other states the lawyers are pretty much cut out of the transaction and the brokers do a lot of the actual contract stuff in addition to marketing, showing, negotiating...
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 03:34 AM FlagWe found our broker added a great deal--and did a lot of legwork we didn't have the time or interest in doing. Sure, I could have hired someone by the hour to do the staging, photos, listing, open houses, etc., but he spent an enormous amount of time dealing with management companies and coop boards on our behalf, not to mention putting together our board packet. And, when we were looking to buy, I really hated it when an owner was showing their own apartment--they tended to follow people around as you looked at things, and it's frankly uncomfortable to open up someone's closets and have any sort of truthful discussion about an apartment while the owner is peering over your shoulder. Worth the 6% to me.
[ Reply | More ]12.02.11, 07:35 AM Flag
[+] What are the professions of parents who send their kid to private in NY? ie: trinity... 33 replies
- at the high end of the socioeconomic spectrum relative to the real world. as would any place that charges $40K for kindergarten...
- Almost all Wall Street people, Wall Street lawyers and real estate developers. Alumni are from more varied fields....
- There are an awful lot of real estate people at our school...
Talk : : December 01, 2011
What are the professions of parents who send their kid to private in NY? ie: trinity, dalton, ecfs etc? At my dc's preschool, majority of parents are in finance or law. I want my dc to be exposed to a wider peer group, or at least more like us: academic, international, NOT in finance or law. Are all privates going to be socioeconomically homogenous (ending up with wall street types because they are the only ones who can afford the tuition?) Would love some insight!
33 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.01.11, 10:34 AM Flag ]it is a mix. i mean, the big industries of ny are finance and media, w/ law as a secondary. but there are journalists, tv personalities (actors and news types), filmmakers, etc. i cannot our child's school is particularly different than anyone else's. of course, the school is certainly overrepresented at the high end of the socioeconomic spectrum relative to the real world. as would any place that charges $40K for kindergarten...
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:36 AM Flagnot a private school mom but not that many people outside finance/law/medicine can afford 40K for their child's school tuition. besides, it's NYC, majority of the jobs are tied to finance in one way or another. I wish this wasn't the case, but that's just how it is. I would assume UNIS school would have more international/diplomacy type of parents
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:39 AM Flagdalton - there are definitely law and finance people, but we also have professors, teachers, an anthropologists, writers, marketing professionals, corporate management type people, musicians, architects, interior designers, fashion industry, etc. and lots and lots of international families. there are some very wealthy, some very affluent, some affluent enough to pay tuition by sacrificing, and FA families which range from lower income (under $100K) to moderate income ($200K). And before anyone chimes in about how that's not "low income" just remember, one of the top boarding shcools in the country gives a free-ride to any admitted student with HHI under $75K w no consideration of family size, house value, 1 vs 2 working parents of the fact that they live in podunk usa where you can buy a house for $50K.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:41 AM FlagOP: glad to hear that there is a nice mix. would anyone care to expand on which schools they are talking about?
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 10:51 AM Flag-
As a middle class parent of a child in private school, I disagree with these answers. There is virtually no one outside of big law or finance at these schools!
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:11 AM FlagOP: I guess I would like to know roughly what percentage of families are in the law/finance industry at the ongoing private schools like trinity and dalton. ie: at my dc's preschool, i would say 80% are. Although we can afford private and love all the extra stuff, I am just not keen on the idea of my dc being surrounded by children from families from a limited and skewed industry like finance. nothing against finance people. we just have very different values in life.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 12:04 PM Flagi'm with you, although i will admit that i DO have something against finance people. anyway, you have to look at the whole picture and decide what matters to you. i have made an uneasy peace with the finance/law thing because the school is fantastic in every other way.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 12:34 PM FlagIt sounds like you value education and educated families, so I would say apply only to those privates that offer top notch education. They are not that easy to get into. Go with public otherwise. We are an academic/international family at a public local g&t. Even though the extras are not great and the education is not exactly what I would want the families and kids are great and we have $ to supplement.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 12:35 PM Flagwell, that i can't answer, but based on ds's friends, i'd say roughly half have one parent in finance or law. but even from those, not all are IB/hedge fund people or big law. one dad is a sole practioner lawyer and another is in-house for an insurance co, one mom does PR for a hedge fund, one dad is a CFP, one mom works for schwab but in a non-finance role like HR or communcations or something.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 12:38 PM Flag
the schools have to admit a certain number of finance and law people, because that's where the big money is. someone at the very top of any creative field is also a no-brainer, as it adds to the bottom line and to the reputation of the school. then they fill seats with people who pay full tuition but won't be huge donators. not a lot of socioeconomic diversity there, as you say. then a percentage of seats are saved for diversity. each school has a different commitment to diversity, but the majority of people in new york who can afford private are not international academics.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 12:30 PM FlagAt one of the schools OP mentioned: a representation of "white collar" ny... journalists, advertising people, media people, small/family business owners, lawyers, doctors, professors, producers and yes many finance people -- but that can be anything from PE to IB to traders to marketing types. But also many people with interesting and unusual jobs with non profit orgs, etc.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 05:41 PM FlagIf you are academics & internationals, then being exposed to people in law and finance IS being exposed to a wider peer group.
[ Reply | More ]12.03.11, 09:29 AM FlagOur School: Rock Star, Chef, Actor, Engineer, Corporate PR, Painter, Restaurant Manager, Advertising, Hedge Fund, Lawyer, Doctor, SAHM, SAHD, model, Graphic designer, Television writer, novelist, Police Officer, Educator, Photogrpher, Therpist, etc. It's NYC.
[ Reply | More ]12.06.11, 05:53 AM Flag
[+] Math moms- If I own a 2 bed 1 bath coop in Park Slope (prime), but I can't rent it ou... 5 replies
- What will real estate market be doing in 2014?...
Talk : : December 01, 2011
Math moms- If I own a 2 bed 1 bath coop in Park Slope (prime), but I can't rent it out until 3/2013 because of coop rules, but will then net $1400/month on the rental for two years, is it worth keeping for 2.5 more years. In other words will the RE market make up for any outlay I have to make. Right now I stay there occasionally. My tax bracket is 28%.
5 replies [ Reply | Watch | More12.01.11, 08:41 AM Flag ]
[+] Anyone know anything about Darien,CT? 17 replies
- It was forbidden to sell real estate to Jews well into the latter half of the 20th century...
Talk : : December 01, 2011
-
my brother lives in rowayton and it's very very pretty but the public schools are not the best as they are all lumped in with Norwalk. I think Darien is that same.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 07:45 AM Flag-
[+] Why did UB delete my post about Eva Moskowitz trying to open a charter school for kid... 61 replies
- allow something like that, but I don't realy think she care who the kids are, she wants the real estate and parents who literally sign for her model....
- Shame on you, caring on a smear campaign when there are real children who stand to benefit from this. Last time I checked...she stood up to the unions. The unions have done a real hatchet job on her....
Talk : : November 30, 2011
Why did UB delete my post about Eva Moskowitz trying to open a charter school for kids who live in one of the fanciest neighborhoods in Brooklyn? She is marketing it to upper middle class parents by scaring them into thinking their excellent neighborhood schools won't have room for their kids. Given that she got permission to open the charter school by claiming it would be located in a very poor neighborhood where good schools were scarce, I find this to be very sleazy. But why does UB care enough to delete the post?
61 replies [ Reply | Watch | More11.30.11, 09:36 AM Flag ]This has been discussed 1001 times, I doubt UB deleted it. Give it a break already.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:39 AM FlagActually, I don't find a single post of the new proposed school in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn being discussed. Feel free to post the link. It's odd you claim it's been discussed "1001" times.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:41 AM FlagThere was a big meeting last night. I didn't go but my mom went. It was crazytown.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:42 AM Flag-
I did -- obviously I'm not as brilliant at searching as you are. So, prove your brilliance and find me the post. There's no post discussing the Cobble Hill opening that I can find.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:50 AM Flagnp. here it is. http://www.urbanbaby.com/talk/posts/53650077
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 11:56 AM FlagFunny you consider THIS single post "discussed 1001 times". This post is about a mom wondering if her unzoned kid can get into PS 58 and has nothing to do with Eva's charter school. In passing, someone mentions that charter school as a possibility and there's one or two responses. It's hardly a post about the charter school, although the response that an upper middle class parent can go there is pretty telling.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 12:55 PM Flagnp means i am an np. i havent posted elsewhere in this thread. i just searched for something mentioning eva moskowitz and found it. and posted it here. you are jousting at windmills
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 02:02 PM FlagBut if you had read it you would realize it wasn't about Eva at all. You said "here it is", as if this was some definitive discussion of the charter school. I'm surprised you didn't respond to that -- which I mentioned above -- instead of telling me I was "jousting at windmills" because I correctly pointed out that your "here it is" post wasn't relevant to the obviously incorrect statement that this had been discussed 1001 times. Can you understand that, or will you dismiss it by saying I'm jousting at windmills again?
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 02:45 PM Flag
-
so funny you can't post a link. If you think it's boring, post a link to where it has been discussed before and shut me up. Or, just call me names instead because you don't have an argument as to why the school should be located in one of the richest neighborhoods in Brooklyn.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:48 AM Flag
np it has been deleted. Advocates for HSA post on here. THe posts get flagged and deleted. Similar thing happened in the run up to UWSA proposal and opening.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:45 AM Flag
I am pro-charter and pro-school-choice, but I have to admit that this particular co-location is a head-scratcher.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 10:05 AM FlagI know, especially since Eva claimed it was for a poor neighborhood in another district. To me, "head scratcher" = something unscrupulous going on. Very unethical. My only guess is she has some affluent friends who live in the 'hood who want the school for their kids, so she's doing them a favor.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 10:11 AM Flag^^^I think it is very telling that it looks like they aren't going to give preferences to kids from low income families. I'm sure the (few) affluent parents who support her would never send their kids to a school where 50% of the kids were poor minorities. A small minority is fine, but they want a school where the majority will be people like them.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 10:14 AM Flag
i'm not sure if her authorizer is suny or the doe, but there are two large housing projects that would qualify as underserved in the neighborhood she's targeting. maybe they are taking them into account.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 10:28 AM Flagbut the authorizer (which was suny) didn't take anything in the neighborhood in account because she applied for a charter in another district. And, she seems to be implying that the school doesn't want to give preference to poor minorities now and will apply to change that from the charter application. She is certainly only marketing to rich parents, not in the housing projects.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 10:43 AM FlagSchool is is in posh nabe, but a stone's throw from a ton of housing projects that don't have better options. If you are out of zone, you can't get into any of the great D15 schools like PS29. This reeks of NIMBY.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 11:22 AM FlagYes, but Eva doesn't want those housing project kids -- she wants the rich ones and she's marketing to them by scaring them that they can't get into their zoned school.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 11:40 AM FlagNP: Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the housing projects kids have the same chance as the "rich ones" since the school body is determined by random lottery?
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 12:47 PM FlagYes but if you spend 10s of thousands of dollars advertising to upper middle class families and doing absolutely nothing to advertise to the housing project ones, you are showing exactly who you want. In a NY Post editorial, Eva even comes out and says it's important for families zoned for overcrowded great publics. Given how she APPLIED for this charter, by saying it was for underserved poor families with no options, I'd say she was acting in a completely unethical manner. How, exactly, does she justify not applying for a D. 15 waiver in the first place if that is what she wanted?
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 12:59 PM FlagMy only knowledge of her is from watching "THe Lottery", but she struck me as having so much integrity and passion for what she does. That said, could it be a building issue, i.e. there is actual space available where said school is now planned to go and nothing offered to Success in the originally proposed location?
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 01:21 PM FlagI worked on many documentaries and filmmakers edit whatever they want to show. Here's my question. I just looked and she is DEFINITELY changing the preference so that low-income kids DON'T get preference. Why? Unless you can give me a legitimate reason for this, other than her obvious desire to have a majority of upper middle class kids instead of poor ones, I don't buy that she has any "integrity" at all.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 01:44 PM Flag^^^she's obviously afraid that if there are too many poor kids (i.e., the ones who really NEED a better school), the rich ones she is advertising to won't come. So what? If she really has such a great school, she shouldn't pretend that the fact that the kids of affluent educated parents get high test scores has anything to do with her school! Prove it by taking the kids who DON'T have educated and rich parents and give them a great education. Then I will support her.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 01:46 PM FlagI am not a SA cheerleader but I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle, she is not afraid of the low income kids - she has done that, she must see this as an opportunity to make the jump to the main stream middle class - if she can do that successfully on the UWS & Brownstone Brooklyn then her model will not be pidgeon holed. She is looking to expand the number of schools big time - if she can make the schools work in Harlem, the South Bronx, UWS and Brownstone Brooklyn then she can make a convincing argument that her schools work anywhere in NYC.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 09:36 PM Flag^^^THAT is what she got her charter for. The fact that she was completely dishonest about that concerns me. And, by the way, it's EASY to be successful by opening up a charter school filled with rich kids. I'm more impressed with PS 29 and PS 58 who took ALL kids and turned those schools into ones that parents desire. Shame on Eva for misleading SUNY, and outright lying about why she wanted the charter. I wonder if that could be considered perjury and a criminal offense? Since it is obvious the intention was ALWAYS to open in a rich neighborhood but they knew they couldn't get permission to do so if they were honest.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 05:49 AM FlagO.K. so what happened is she tried to get into D13 and was partially chased out, she will take any free good space. The DOE offered her D15, SUNY is O.K. with crossing districts without charter revision but they are not O.K.with changing the mission, so apparently, the plan is to have the public hearings, get PEP approval and simultaneously revise the charter. If this is your neighborhood you are probably better off if they do so :
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:25 AM Flag^ here is why - if they leave the preference for failing schools you will receive a whole bunch of people from outside the neighborhood which will do little to relieve the demand on PS29/58 - if they keep it local then some kids that might have gone to pS29/58 may decide they prefer the Success Academy.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:28 AM Flag^ BTW, you seem angry, I understand why, we fought co-location in my child's school building 6 years ago and won, it was one of the rare cases this happens. What you are coming to understand is that under the current system it doesn't matter at all what you and your neighbors want, there really is no public accountability, the PEP is a farce and that is why people treat it as such. OTOH, that space has sat there for years and nobody was able to convert it into a citywide, a magnet school, an annex or even just another local school, people pushed to get their kids into 29/58 and once they did they forgot about it and went on with their lives.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:41 AM FlagFrom OR: Actually, the DOE admitted at that meeting that they DIDN'T offer Eva the space, SHE wanted it. Second, the space didn't just sit there for years. If the DOE felt they needed another elementary school to serve 29/58 kids, they should open one. Not allow charters to move into rich neighborhoods with great overcrowded schools. It's UNCONSCIONABLE that Eva is not targeting low income kids, but targeting upper middle class ones. Any fool (seriously) can create a decent school if you have rich parents. I'm quite sure Eva knows that if there are too many needy (i.e. poor minorities) the rich parents she covets won't enroll their kids. So she is trying to keep the numbers down by stealth. I'm sorry, but that's shameful, and yes, it does make me angry to see scarce resources used to pay high salaries like Eva's.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:32 AM Flag^^^and finally, this IS my neighborhood and I don't care whether this will relieve the pressure on crowded schools because that's selfish. This is about acting in an ETHICAL way, and speaking out against people like Eva who are obviously acting in an underhanded way. If people just accept that because there could be some personal benefit, we might as well give up now. The only way to right a wrong is to speak up about it. No one without the connections Eva has would be allowed to mislead SUNY and get away with it. Shame on everyone who is looking the other way and pretending this is okay. THAT'S why I oppose it. If a new group wants to apply for a charter to serve rich upper middle class kids and place it in the same place, and it's approved, well, okay, at least it was done legally.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:38 AM FlagI think she is playing the "game" necessary to navigate both the State and DOE. If you met her (and I'm not saying I'm a fan of hers, although I do respect what she is done with her schools) you would know immediately she is incapable of lying. She is so "what you see is what you get" to a fault.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 01:01 PM FlagBut she DID lie because she applied specifically for a charter for district 13 and 11 -- some of the poorest districts -- and was granted one based on that application. Suddenly, not only is she moving the school to one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Brooklyn, but she is also CHANGING the lottery so that poor kids don't get preference anymore!!! If you can explain how that shows integrity, I'd like to know. She's doing it to intentionally subvert the system and shame on her for doing this.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 02:00 PM Flag
She has an amazing reputation. People who have worked with her respect her. She defines intergrity--and bravery--look how she stood up to the unions. The unions have done a real hatchet job on her.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:50 AM FlagI'm not in any union and have no interest in defending them. Good for her for standing up to unions when necessary. However, does that mean I should give her a pass for what is outright lying to get a charter? You don't get a charter based on serving kids who NEED them, and once you get it, decide you really want a school for upper middle class families, so let's make it as hard as possible for poor kids to go there. Shame on her. And shame on you for acting as if her turning her back on the kids who truly NEED a good charter school is something that's A-OK for her to do. Especially when she did that in a completely unethical way. Sorry, but that's a fact.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 02:03 PM Flag
Go away evil union hack. You sound like a deranged lunatic. More schools are good for everyone. Having schools with non-unionized teachers, clearly threatens you to core. Shame on you, caring on a smear campaign when there are real children who stand to benefit from this. Last time I checked no one is forced to attend a charter school. But too many poor children are forced their crappy zoned school.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:47 AM FlagOh please, are you one of the people Eva is paying with her million dollar plus advertising budget? I SAID that I WANTED the school to give preferences to poor kids. Unfortunately, Eva wants to CHANGE that so that there is no longer any preference for poor kids. There is absolutely NO justification for changing that. I'm sure you AGREE with me since you believe so strongly that "too many poor children are forced into their crappy zoned school". So why aren't you fighting Eva's desire to make sure FEWER poor kids get into the school??
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 01:53 PM Flag
Right now, the way her application for her charter is written, she IS taking into account the kids who live in housing projects. HOWEVER, she wants to CHANGE this!!! Why??? Why won't she give preference to kids who are poor? Is she afraid her test scores won't look so good if most of the kids taking the test aren't the children of affluent, educated parents? Duh.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 01:49 PM FlagShe must have some new insight after the UWS lottery, maybe she thinks this really will play in Cobble Hill, who knows, maybe she is right. I would rather have her serve the housing project kids as the Cobble Hill crowd will be O.K. with or without this school.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 05:49 PM Flagthe authorizers won't allow her to do this (skew the lottery)
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:34 AM Flagthe can remove the preference for out of District children from failing schools, they can give preference to in district kids (like Girls Prep), they probably will allow something like that, but I don't realy think she care who the kids are, she wants the real estate and parents who literally sign for her model.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:43 AM Flagin my experience they are pretty strict about adherence to the charter as far as lottery is concerned, but i may be wrong
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 08:45 AM FlagYou are wrong -- she does care who the kids are. Believe me, she is peppering the expensive brownstone homes with flyers to get people to sign up for the lottery. It's funny that she didn't get a huge crowd of housing project parents -- who aren't zoned for good schools -- at the hearing to support her. That's because she's NOT advertising to them. That's truly unethical on her part. I'd have far more faith in her good intentions if she wasn't going out of her way to recruit the rich parents and hope the poor parents don't know about it (and certainly not make them feel welcome).
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 02:08 PM Flag
I don't know. Wish they hadn't deleted it. Parents are almost always overjoyed when a new school is open. My friends at the UWS love it. Choice can only be good unless you are a Stalinist.
[ Reply | More ]12.01.11, 11:49 AM Flag
[+] What are risks in purchasing a short sale home? 3 replies
- it's in an HOA, you're liable for all past due monthly fees and any fines on the home. You're also on the hook for any unpaid property taxes or liens. Talk to a real estate attorney....
Talk : : November 29, 2011
What are risks in purchasing a short sale home?
3 replies [ Reply | Watch | More11.29.11, 06:28 PM Flag ]I looked at a million dollar home in Tequesta Florida....the former owners took out everything that wasn't nailed down. We are retired and don't want to fix up short sales-but it is frightening. I fear another depression is on the way. BTW the house is not selling in the low 500s...and may go for about 300k....and that is only 1 example. We are so screwed.
[ Reply | More ]11.30.11, 08:19 AM Flag
Subscribe to our newsletters!
Go »
Inside UrbanBaby
UrbanBabyBuzz
Among the many, many reasons to be sad about Jim Henson’s tragic death: No more StoryTellers, ever. The dark fairy tale series was made in the late ’80s, but didn’t garner ratings high enough to make its giant price tag worth ...
More »
UrbanBabyNewYork
VisitSanta’s Winter GardenHead downtown to take a holiday photo with Santa, and meet his reindeer and Elves. Proceeds benefit the Brooke Jackman Foundation.When: Fri. & Sat. 12/9-12/10 10am-7pm, Sun. 12/11 10am-5pm (Santa breaks from 1- ...
More »
