"The Wii bubble could be deflating," says Cowen Group analyst Doug Creutz, who's latest survey claims that core gamers are still the "best investment" for game companies.
According to Creutz's broad fall-holiday survey, Wii owners are buying fewer games now than they did a year ago, while Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 owners plan to buy more.
"We believe that the optics of this hardware cycle have been significantly distorted by the explosive growth of the Wii console," he said.
On the other hand, the analyst notes, the PlayStation 3 looks poised for a strong holiday, with 21 percent of survey respondents planning to buy the console this Christmas. The number's slightly below the 26 percent planning to buy Wiis, but nearly double the 12 percent planning to buy an Xbox 360.
The survey data also shows that 32 percent of PlayStation 2 owners who haven't yet bought a current generation plan to buy a PS3, versus just 9 percent for the Xbox 360. Could Sony's faith in brand loyalty be about to pay off?
The Wii's destiny is in Nintendo's hands. All they have to do is release a few big hitters like Zelda, F-Zero, Pilot Wings, Starfox and Wii sales will go into meltdown. Wii sales are down because Nintendo have been to slow getting AAA games out the door.
New games will always be around the corner. Since we are now on the 4th generation of DS, it seems obvious Nintendo love using a hardware refresh to boost sales.. If they don't do one for the Wii in the next 6 months I'll eat my Wiimotes.
New games will always be around the corner. Since we are now on the 4th generation of DS, it seems obvious Nintendo love using a hardware refresh to boost sales.. If they don't do one for the Wii in the next 6 months I'll eat my Wiimotes.
They've already started with the release of the black Wii and remotes. I don't need a new Wii, or any more remotes, but by crikey I want the black ones!
Longing for an F-Zero game on the Wii, with on-line multiplayer.
All they have to do is release a few big hitters like Zelda, F-Zero, Pilot Wings, Starfox and Wii sales will go into meltdown
I disagree - those are all "core gamers" games, most of the wii purchasers don't give a monkeys about those sort of games; they only want the latest wii fit, party games and other assorted shovelware.
I think the story is more worrying for Microsoft than Nintendo, Only 9% of PS2 owner would upgrade to Xbox-360 and just 12% of people planning to buy a 360! While you always have to take surveys with a pinch of salt its got to be a concern for MS where they are going to find their next customers. The Wii is in its own market so it can plough on with the job of selling to new customers but PS3 and 360 are more in direct competition so its more important to pinch sales off each other. I think the big questions for next year are 1. Is Nintendo planning on release more top games to keep the Wii going strong, 2. Is the Xbox-360 running out of market and what do MS plan to do about it, 3. Will Sony be able to capitalise on the 360's slow down in sales and really push the PS3 home? Should be fun finding out...
Totally agree with Jodmeister on this. The majority of the Wii market couldn't give a toss about the likes of F-Zero, Pilot Wings, Star Fox etc. I would imagine that F-Zero would actually be quite a poor selling title on the Wii. Most of them probably never heard of Zelda either.
If this prediction comes true how many of you would truly be that surprised? Market saturation after all was/is bound to set in at some point, especially when considering that the Wii lacks some of the features people that are interested in electronic entertainment are increasingly coming to expect (HD for example). With the arrival of the now much more price competetive consoles from both MS and Sony with superior tech abilites (motion control is still up in the air but by all reports both MS's and Sony's responses to that are incoming and quickly,) and I perceive the steam of momentum to be leaving Nintendo.
Nintendo capitalised on the short term mass market and it has paid dividends for them, however in the long term I agree with the argument that core gamers are good for the games companies. They are more likely to stick with the industry and continue buying products, and buying more of them, even during hard times (in so far as is possible for them) and will likely prioritize such purchases over other things than the casual mass market.
New games will always be around the corner. Since we are now on the 4th generation of DS, it seems obvious Nintendo love using a hardware refresh to boost sales.. If they don't do one for the Wii in the next 6 months I'll eat my Wiimotes.
They've already started with the release of the black Wii and remotes. I don't need a new Wii, or any more remotes, but by crikey I want the black ones!
Longing for an F-Zero game on the Wii, with on-line multiplayer.
I don't really count new colours as a hardware refresh, although I agree the black Wii looks pretty good. It's amazing how a simple colour change can have such an impact on the desirability of a console. Personally I'm holding out for the Beige Wii...
I disagree - those are all "core gamers" games, most of the wii purchasers don't give a monkeys about those sort of games; they only want the latest wii fit, party games and other assorted shovelware.
I disagree Jodmeister.
I'm a 20-something Wii owner and I enjoy equal amounts of hardcore and casual games. I enjoy the odd game of Wii Sports, but I'm also longing for more core titles like:
I think the story is more worrying for Microsoft than Nintendo, Only 9% of PS2 owner would upgrade to Xbox-360 and just 12% of people planning to buy a 360! While you always have to take surveys with a pinch of salt its got to be a concern for MS where they are going to find their next customers. The Wii is in its own market so it can plough on with the job of selling to new customers but PS3 and 360 are more in direct competition so its more important to pinch sales off each other. I think the big questions for next year are 1. Is Nintendo planning on release more top games to keep the Wii going strong, 2. Is the Xbox-360 running out of market and what do MS plan to do about it, 3. Will Sony be able to capitalise on the 360's slow down in sales and really push the PS3 home? Should be fun finding out...
Interesting observations and questions. I share some of your sentiments and if it weren't for the Natal project I would expect MS to launch a new console within the next two years. Add to that the financial meltdown the world has experienced and that may be pushed out to 2013 as one CVG article mentioned. Alternatively MS could focus on more top quality produced games that are exclusive as it has been. Since there appears to be very little difference visually between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 regarding in-game visuals, MS might stand to benefit if it plays heavily towards software which is its forte and not Sony's (which is what I think we are seeing with LIVE, however as an Xbox 360 owner whom is not willing to pay for LIVE MS may need to do more software development outside of just paid LIVE subscriptions).
All that said, check out the following CVG article which is directly related and by one account shows MS strongly ahead of Sony for this approaching Christmas season in the UK:
Aaah Nintendo. Where do I start? Being fortunate enough to own all three consoles, it does seem that recently, the Wii is starting to gather a fine layer of dust. Nintendo you DO need a new Pilotwings, a new online F-Zero and more big hitters such as Star Fox, Pikmin, more 2D Mario and Metroid games to name a few. The problem is, we always wait ages for these titles to materialise (in the case of Pilotwings - probably NEVER!)Why Nintendo? I fondly remember the days of Wave Race, 1080, Blast Corps, Banjo & Co and they were awesome games back then.I do understand the current Kyoto business model - which is to entertain the masses, but I do fear that if the Big N don't release these classic 'gems' soon on their cutting edge platform, they might shoot themselves in the foot. Not releasing a new Pilotwings is a gaming crime! I have always admired Miyamotos' genius, but please listen to your fans and give us what WE want - not what Mum, Dad & Gran want to play!! With all due respect to Mr Iwata, I do believe that when Yamauchi san was at the helm, Ninty's output was certainly more focussed and stronger...
I disagree - those are all "core gamers" games, most of the wii purchasers don't give a monkeys about those sort of games; they only want the latest wii fit, party games and other assorted shovelware.
I disagree Jodmeister.
I'm a 20-something Wii owner and I enjoy equal amounts of hardcore and casual games. I enjoy the odd game of Wii Sports, but I'm also longing for more core titles like:
You don't have to be a child or OAP to appreciate the Wii, but Nintendo has to realise that the core players need to be catered for too.
You're probably the exception rather than the rule. Of course there are plenty of people enjoy both casual and core games but I think a lot of Wii owners have never heard of or even care about the above games.
All the above games made an appearence on the Gamecube (some titles more than once) and they did not send sales of the unit sky rocketing.
That's because the Gamecube had no usp, many people just looked at having no DVD playback and even back catalogue and instantly dismissed it, no online didn't help either. The Wii probably does have at least near half casual owners but who's to say those casuals can't be turned. An inviting game like New Super Mario Bros that has a hardcore element is a great start, especially with the use of the super guide.
Nintendo know what they're doing, they got a bit neglectful and rested on their laurels but they're starting to turn it around again and I think we'll see a whole host of quality games on the way soon and with competition on the motion control they'll also start to work giving the console itself better features, they'd be stupid no to.
Agree. Nintendo certainly know what they're doing in terms of business. They are a respected company that knows how to turn a profit. The other two are still losing money on the hardware (perhaps not Microsoft anymore) but the Big N have always made money from both hardware AND software. Any sensible gamer (fanboys NOT included) will admit that the Kyoto outfit is big business with the public. They went for the mass appeal approach and have succeeded tremendously. The Gamecube was a neat little machine that was not marketed correctly (F Zero GX, 1080, Mario Sunshine etc) and it was a shame. Nintendo must keep up with the competition though for the Wii 2 (or whatever silly name they decide to call it) and include DVD playback, hi -def graphics etc. I would almost say that the Wii was an experiment for their 'real' next gen machine...
I have bought several wii games in the last few weeks (Rabbids go home, A boy and his blob, Ghostbusters and New Super Mario Bros.wii)however I am disappointed in the lack of triple A titles on that are being released between now and christmas and even beyond that in the mid to short term. Yes I want Red Steel 2, and Galaxy 2 but aside from that where are the huge list of games that going to get people excited about buying the wii, where are the first party games. The truth is that in the eyes of some gamers the lack of HD on wii is a problem, however what makes these people still go go and buy a wii are the sheer quality of Nintendo's first party line up. If Nintendo don't release (or even announce)more quality first party games then in the wake of the forthcoming Sony wand and Natal it is going to be harder to justify owning a wii over the other consoles.
That's because the Gamecube had no usp, many people just looked at having no DVD playback and even back catalogue and instantly dismissed it, no online didn't help either. The Wii probably does have at least near half casual owners but who's to say those casuals can't be turned. An inviting game like New Super Mario Bros that has a hardcore element is a great start, especially with the use of the super guide.
Nintendo know what they're doing, they got a bit neglectful and rested on their laurels but they're starting to turn it around again and I think we'll see a whole host of quality games on the way soon and with competition on the motion control they'll also start to work giving the console itself better features, they'd be stupid no to.
In reality the lack of online did not hurt the gamecube. After all the PS2 did not have online (not in any real sense anyway) and that did not put off people buying it. The Gamecube is widely thought to have failed due to its cheap price point (people wrongly associated the cheap price with lack of power), lack of big hitting games (especially early on) and a lack of marketing. The gamecube was a stonking console but the casual audience that bought the PS1 wanted to move to the PS2 (as can be seen by the sad demise of the far better dreamcast). Xbox managed to take some of the casual PS1 audience by offering the same as PS2 but bigger and better but these same people couldn't and still can't see through the kiddy graphics. If there is no blood, violence or licenses then they don't want to know, no matter how good the gameplay.
I disagree - those are all "core gamers" games, most of the wii purchasers don't give a monkeys about those sort of games; they only want the latest wii fit, party games and other assorted shovelware.
I disagree Jodmeister.
I'm a 20-something Wii owner and I enjoy equal amounts of hardcore and casual games. I enjoy the odd game of Wii Sports, but I'm also longing for more core titles like:
You don't have to be a child or OAP to appreciate the Wii, but Nintendo has to realise that the core players need to be catered for too.
You're probably the exception rather than the rule. Of course there are plenty of people enjoy both casual and core games but I think a lot of Wii owners have never heard of or even care about the above games.
All the above games made an appearence on the Gamecube (some titles more than once) and they did not send sales of the unit sky rocketing.
I think you under estimate the fact that most true gamers have got a wii as well as other consoles. However I agree that the number of true gamers are far less in numbers than the casuals and playstation generation.
the wii is disconnected from the gaming scene generally. its customers reflect that.
Agree with that.
Wish Nintendo would invest some of their huge profits in buying or setting up more studios, who could make decent 2nd-party games. Like they used to with Rare and still do with Retro.
if the wii had the franchises of nintendos last consoles, i'd have one.
it doesnt.
its got crap like wii fit and raymonds rampant rabbits.
the wii is disconnected from the gaming scene generally. its customers reflect that.
What about NSMB, Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid, SSB etc etc. NSMB has taken over my life right at the moment, even MW2 has had to take a back seat.
I would say that it was gamers that are disconnected from gaming rather than Nintendo being disconnected from gamers. Gamers seem to have a very very narrow taste these days. It is shiny FPS or nothing......
Well, looks like my mums going to buy one at Xmas as a present for the old man. I'm looking forward to it, I've always liked the Wii, but not the lack of top quality games. It's being bought for casual play, because it's a casual console.
Well, looks like my mums going to buy one at Xmas as a present for the old man. I'm looking forward to it, I've always liked the Wii, but not the lack of top quality games. It's being bought for casual play, because it's a casual console.
You could always buy the top quality games for it though couldn't you?
I think someone mentioned before that they love both core and casual games and you know what shock horror so do I. No were not exceptions, thats what true gamers are people that can appreciate something thats good and fun. Yes there are some games to look forward to like Zelda, Metroid Other M and Mario Galaxy 2 but what Nintendo really need to do is get of their asses and make a Starfox, F-Zero, Pilotwings and hey why not a sequel to Eternal Darkness and while theyre at it another Luigi's mansion.
I think someone mentioned before that they love both core and casual games and you know what shock horror so do I. No were not exceptions, thats what true gamers are people that can appreciate something thats good and fun. Yes there are some games to look forward to like Zelda, Metroid Other M and Mario Galaxy 2 but what Nintendo really need to do is get of their asses and make a Starfox, F-Zero, Pilotwings and hey why not a sequel to Eternal Darkness and while theyre at it another Luigi's mansion.
Indeed, it is only relatively recently that there has even been a large distinction made. In the 16 bit era I never heard mention of the words core or casual. Gamers were gamers and games were games.... Oh the good old days....
Wow, there's so much pressure for Nintendo to supply all the games for the wii. yes they definately are one of the best game developers and yes it is their own hardware, but still. I don't see this amount of pressure on ms and sony to single-handedly deliver endless lists of games. More pressure needs to be put on third parties to deliver, they are the ones who are failing to deliver not so much Nintendo.
Wow, there's so much pressure for Nintendo to supply all the games for the wii. yes they definately are one of the best game developers and yes it is their own hardware, but still. I don't see this amount of pressure on ms and sony to single-handedly deliver endless lists of games. More pressure needs to be put on third parties to deliver, they are the ones who are failing to deliver not so much Nintendo.
I think the point is that it is up to Nintendo to produce more great games to get the third parties to take note and stop being lazy.
Wow, there's so much pressure for Nintendo to supply all the games for the wii. yes they definately are one of the best game developers and yes it is their own hardware, but still. I don't see this amount of pressure on ms and sony to single-handedly deliver endless lists of games. More pressure needs to be put on third parties to deliver, they are the ones who are failing to deliver not so much Nintendo.
Yes it is true that it is the third party developers that arent developing the goods but if Nintendo want the Wii's success to continue then they need to start pushing more of their AAA titles to keep the Wii gamers happy.
Nintendo NEED another Rare or a Retro Studios to develop games that are written to the metal. I remember Factor 5's Rogue Squadron on the Cube, and even though I owned a Dreamcast and PS2 at the time, the technical polish blew me away. Immature ranting fanboys aside, if the Wii is programmed PROPERLY, unlike a lot of lazy bandwagon jumping developers out there, I'll bet the results would be striking...hi def or no hi def. Unfortunately, all three consoles are guilty of having a lot of mediocre titles, and the Wii more so. Titles like Kororinpa are a genius and truly show off the interface. However, its a bit like putting your hand in a bucket of s**t and rummaging around for the gems at the bottom...simply put, the glut of sub standard titles are letting the Kyoto side down...
I will never buy a Wii unless they bring out more new hardcore IP's that genuinely innovate with the Wii remote. Wii Fit isn't a reason a gamer like myself buys the console, it's just a gimmick for Christmas. Then again, Sony look like they're going to do more of what I want with their remotes coming out so Nintendo would have to do a lot to win me over.
Not that they need to of course; I'll just stick with my PS3 and 360.
I will never buy a Wii unless they bring out more new hardcore IP's that genuinely innovate with the Wii remote. Wii Fit isn't a reason a gamer like myself buys the console, it's just a gimmick for Christmas. Then again, Sony look like they're going to do more of what I want with their remotes coming out so Nintendo would have to do a lot to win me over.
Not that they need to of course; I'll just stick with my PS3 and 360.
Shame, it could have been so much more.
So yet again, I say buy the so called "hardcore titles" (I really hate that terminology) then. It is a very successful console and therefore just like PS2 has a huge proportion of shovelwear. However that is irrelevant as long as you know what you are looking for. Mario Galaxy, NSMB, Madworld, a boy and his blob, metroid prime corruption, zack and wiki, RE4+, Umbrella chronicles etc etc, there are many great games out for it and you are simply denying yourself a piece of gaming goodness by not having one. However that is your choice. Mine is to have the ability to play as many great games as possible.
True. The LBP's, MGS4's and Unchartered's of the world do make it a very sexy proposal....and lets not forget GT5 (Don't even get me started on Forza looking/playing just as good - it doesn't!). I am lucky enough to own both machines, and for every Trials HD there is a Super Stardust ...like for like. Killzone 2 however, was a tad disappointing in my opinion after all the hype a millions of dollars of cash thrown at it. Yes, it looked incredible, but was it really a Halo killer? I think not... I love the 360 and PS3, and most games are cross platform these days. I do believe the long term prospects of the Sony machine are somewhat more positive than they are for Microsoft. I never fully trusted Bill Gates & Co after they had announced the 360 and dropped the old machine like a brick! The old Xbox had plenty of untapped potential, but it was abandoned in the wake if its newer, bigger and better brother! Now I just use the old one as a door stop! Both machines are good, and I'm sure healthy competition can only be a good thing for the consumer...
I always have to laugh when people say the wii doesn't have the games Nintendos previous consoles did or No core games becasue last time i checked the wii is essentially every Nintendo console rolled into one. I can play every zelda, Mario & F zero ever made on it via the VC.
It has some brilliant original titles such as Little Kings Story, Overkill, A boy and his blob, No more heroes, Mad World, Muramasa, de blob and Zack and wiki to name just a few.
Nintendo has released more 1st party core games on the system than they did for either the N64 or GC. 3 mario games (with a forth rumoured) 2 zelda games, 2 new metroid games (and superior versions of the prime 1 &2), Punchout, 3 excite games,mario kart, baseball and tennis and strikers.
It also has the best versions of resi 4, the resi remake, okami and pikmin 1&2.
Next year there's going to be a new zelda and other M as well as the silent hill remake, Sin and Punishment 2 and Final Fantasy crystal bearers.
And thats just the tip of the iceberg of what the wii has to offer. I forgot to mention it also has the NEW MONKEY ISLAND SERIES as well.
oh gee! looks like theres just as many good games as there is on every other console.
When it comes to pure innovation, The Big N rule! From the analogue stick (N64) to their Wii-mote, Nintendo are true pioneers. Their games are genius. Look at Super Monkey Ball for instance. I have seen grandparents and their grandchildren enjoy this amazing game. Just an analogue stick to control it and everyone is happy. Now don't get me wrong, but if I showed Halo, Killzone, MGS etc to my Mum or Dad and handed them the controller, it would be like giving them a grenade with the pin pulled out! They fumble, bash buttons, give up and pass the pad back, totally disinterested. No, don't anybody out there bash Nintendo (in fact most sensible, intelligent gamers praise the company, even if they own rival consoles) and I'm sure that if Ninty return to their previous business model (more triple AAA in house gems) then they would be unstoppable! They are like the bottomnal of the console/gaming world....when they deliver, nobody can touch them! Sublime....
When it comes to pure innovation, The Big N rule! From the analogue stick (N64) to their Wii-mote, Nintendo are true pioneers. Their games are genius. Look at Super Monkey Ball for instance. I have seen grandparents and their grandchildren enjoy this amazing game. Just an analogue stick to control it and everyone is happy. Now don't get me wrong, but if I showed Halo, Killzone, MGS etc to my Mum or Dad and handed them the controller, it would be like giving them a grenade with the pin pulled out! They fumble, bash buttons, give up and pass the pad back, totally disinterested. No, don't anybody out there bash Nintendo (in fact most sensible, intelligent gamers praise the company, even if they own rival consoles) and I'm sure that if Ninty return to their previous business model (more triple AAA in house gems) then they would be unstoppable! They are like the bottomnal of the console/gaming world....when they deliver, nobody can touch them! Sublime....
I do agree with you. However you may need to use a different game as an example as Super Monkey Ball is a Sega game.
Nintendo has released more 1st party core games on the system than they did for either the N64 or GC. 3 mario games (with a forth rumoured) 2 zelda games, 2 new metroid games (and superior versions of the prime 1 &2), Punchout, 3 excite games,mario kart, baseball and tennis and strikers.
this is exactly why I still maintain that people need to ease up on Nintendo as a developer. They've churned out so many quality titles ,in frankly a very small amount of time, (made easier with the wii's style of hardware- but that could have been the plan all along, smaller dev time and all that)
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