[Eastbournian]

Sausages.

What motivates most of the anti-Pringle (the ex station manager) brigade is the way that well liked presenters doing an excellent job were, in our opinion, badly treated and whose contracts were not renewed or were ended prematurely.Programme formats that worked well for most of us were dispensed with overnight for absolutely no gain at all. There was a rapport between presenters and listeners that would be hard to understand for anyone who wasn't a regular listener.
Programmes are now sub-standard and the Rajar figures are the worst of any BBC local radio station outside of the largest cities(where competition is much stiffer).
They just keep on churning out the same old dross and are unable to be straight with everyone and admit that the 'New Sound of Sussex' is not working.

[FB1969]

Anyone wanting to see how successful the changes were should check this page

http://www.mediauk.com/radio/rajar/2...counties-radio

The figures for Mar 06 were the last before the changes, from there on the figures speak for themselves.

[Hevwil]

Thank you fb 1969 and Eastbournian. I do hope that Sausages now has more understanding of why we are so upset. The successful radio station that we loved has been changed dramatically and presenters that we adored and respected were treated in a shoddy manner. The station has not been improved by these changes as the decline in listening figures clearly shows. We have been through changes for improvement in the past and accepted them but as far as we are concerned these changes destroyed the station as we knew it and a barrier appeared to be built-up between the listener and the broadcaster when magazines, panto and shows were stopped. Outside broadcasts have continued in a small way. The original level of contact that we had has been maintained on other stations so why was it taken away from SCR?

[sausages]

My point remains. Please excuse my use of bold in this quote...

What motivates most of the anti-Pringle (the ex station manager) brigade is the way that well liked presenters doing an excellent job were, in our opinion, badly treated and whose contracts were not renewed or were ended prematurely.Programme formats that worked well for most of us were dispensed with overnight for absolutely no gain at all. There was a rapport between presenters and listeners that would be hard to understand for anyone who wasn't a regular listener.

You see, that is your opinion, not fact. You don't have the audience breakdowns, or the listener demographics. You don't know where the BBC want this station to be in 12, 24, 36 months from now. You're not looking at the bigger plan. To be fair, there are subtle ways and drastic ways of making such changes, but my point still stands. Just because you and your online friends are unhappy with the changes, it doesn't make you right.

Finally, regarding the link to the listener figures. Firstly, let's not forget how many more radio/audio services there are compared even with a year or two ago. Secondly, the station's reach has gone up in the last two surveys and is where it was two years ago. But seeing as the market share has fallen fairly steadily since 2002, it's hardly surprising that changes are being made. Kinda proves that you guys are in the minority.

[PochtalionP]

Very well done, Chops, and your post in 'the other place' giving the way through the back of the wardrobe to here is stiill 'there'.

Took a while to register,but am now here also.

But good to be among friends.



Yours,

PP

[Mr Spoons]

Originally Posted by sausages

But seeing as the market share has fallen fairly steadily since 2002, it's hardly surprising that changes are being made. Kinda proves that you guys are in the minority.

And let's not forget that SCR has always suffered from very poor market share compared to other BBC local radio stations. Now part of that is down to very poor performence in Surrey compared to Sussex but the fact is that it was a stagnent station that was expensive to run.

Fact is that Barry living in Aldershot doesn't give a stuff about Brighton Pier or what Betty in Eastbourne has to say. SCR is so big that it's not a BBC local but a BBC regional with opt outs.

With budget cuts nobody can do anything about the fact that SCR is on a hiding to nothing trying to cover a huge patch, so they probably decided to revamp the line-up instead and try to appeal to a wider audience. Radio audiences are quick to tune away at the first hint of change but slow to tune back. But give it another 18 months and the RAJAR figures will have recovered.

The opinions of a few anoraks won't bring back the old presenters. Quite frankly the BBC should have shut that board a long time ago. The changes have been made. The likes of Rambling Radders have gone. The people complaining should just let it go.

[Mr Spoons]

Originally Posted by FB1969

Anyone wanting to see how successful the changes were should check this page

http://www.mediauk.com/radio/rajar/2...counties-radio

The figures for Mar 06 were the last before the changes, from there on the figures speak for themselves.

So the figures were on a downward curve way before the changes were made?

So you have your answer then don't you? The audience was falling away and drastic changes were needed to stabalise the situation.

Anyone with knowledge of radio knows that when you make drastic changes, you'll lose more audience before you start to make any gains again.

So the graph you are looking at shows a downward curve because the station was failing, and then a further fall because of the changes. Given time the figures will recover.

So I fail to see your point.

[gamestats]

The "vocal minority" contributed to what must have been the largest topic with over 7000 posts. Noticably, very few of them were in support of the changes. Indeed, when someone started a thread in support it died quicker than some of the jokes by the new (recycled) presenters.

We don't all go to the pub or the dole queue, so please put your insults where the sun don't shine. I enjoyed listening to the great man over breakfast and whilst driving to work - often sitting in the car park to hear the end of a topic.

And the vocal minority seem to be joined by a silent legion who have left the station in droves, as evidenced by the RAJAR figures quarter on quarter.

[Mr Spoons]

Originally Posted by gamestats

And the vocal minority seem to be joined by a silent legion who have left the station in droves, as evidenced by the RAJAR figures quarter on quarter.

Sadly if you thought you could come on here and try to impose your view without being challanged then you are sadly mistaken.

Face it, the station was in freefall before the changes and it was losing listeners. Management don't make changes lightly. They have access to far more detailed figures than you or I. The further drop at the point of change is quite normal and you can protest all you like but it doesn't change the facts.

You won't find it as easy to impose your viewpoint on people on here as easily as you would on the BBC boards which you appear to have been ejected from.

[gamestats]

"Challange" all you want. If you mean challenge, then that is healthy. as is expressing an opinion and that cuts both ways. All opinions are just that - opinions which should not be confused with facts.

I haven't been ejected from anywhere for a long long time.

[surreylizzy]

Hiya All,

Made it as well. It seems we have some adversaries here too. Oh well, we are all entitled to our own opinion. Some people seem to get very sensitive about what are just remarks. BBC employees or supporters maybe? otherwise why bother. Listening to the Great Radders now. No! I for one won't let it go. I think the Beeb should let it go, the sound of sussex I mean along with it's perpertrators. I don't feel as if I've been ejected from anywhere. Another door has opened and I've been able to make a choice. Liz

[mugs]

Southern Counties isn't a local station.It covers a huge area and could never really fall into that category.What they did have was three seperate breakfast shows(including a local one for Brighton and localities which was dropped) and a presenter team which appealed to the older age groups together with easy listening music.The reason i don't think the audience figures will go up if the current line-up continues is because-(a) Many of the older listeners have tuned away having been alienated,(b) There is now not enough difference in the music output to differentiate the station from many others around.(c) The attempt to get younger listeners has largely failed because although the music has got younger the people who like it usually want less chat than a BBC
regional station offers and so listen to commercial radio.(d) If the output is not much different to what else is on offer musically in such a large area you may as well listen to a more local station-as has been said what goes on in one part of the area is irrevelant to another.So in order to be a success the station needs to be very different from others.In its old form to a large extent it was. The problem is now that it's just just another output of a lot of trivial talk and pop music available in so many other places on the dial.

[PochtalionP]

Yes, indeed opinions are opinions.

But facts are facts and the facts - as per the Rajar figures which, by the way, are the facts SCR cite when crowing the next quarter or perhaps it was the 2nd quarter's results after the 'Changes' about 'extra listeners' - are that for a good number of quarters before the Apr '06 changes they were edging up and approaching a 6% market (sorry, listener) share but since the 'New Sound' was introduced, have bumbled along at approx 4.0% and only went up to 4.5% market share when the statistical basis for Rajar collection was changed in Jun '07 - but then were back down to 4.0% the next quarter, i.e. no upward trend.

The facts are that for the 18mths after the changes, the only figures available (RAJAR) are significantly worse than for the 18mths prior to these major changes.

The reasons why these facts have happened does indeed then get us into the arena of opinions.

I happen to tend towards the interpretation that the changes were a) not a good idea and b) haven't worked as being a reason for why the extent of SCR's market (listener) share is now so much worse than prior to Apr '06.

Seems to be too likely a 'cause and effect' link to me.

Best regards,

David

Originally Posted by gamestats

"Challange" all you want. If you mean challenge, then that is healthy. as is expressing an opinion and that cuts both ways. All opinions are just that - opinions which should not be confused with facts.

[idiot_box]

Originally Posted by FB1969

Chops, please check your Personal Messages.

Ohh, how do i do that?

Gald to see a number of you over here, and it is interesting to see some counter viewpoints. They seem very heart felt, so it would be interesting to know if they have a vested interest in the station?

Chops
(Haven't been too well, but back on the mend)

[FB1969]

Originally Posted by idiot_box

Ohh, how do i do that?

Log in to the site and at the top right, below where it says when you last visited, it should say you have 2 private messages.

You will need to have PMs enabled in your profile, use "Quick Links" to check. If there aren't any there, PM me.

Originally Posted by idiot_box

Haven't been too well, but back on the mend

Get well soon

[horrendous]

Have just been made aware of this site. I was a lurker on the "other" site, but as an insider with the BBC felt it wrong to join in. Now I have a sort of freedom to comment, plus a lot of the contributions were just plain nasty and vitriolic and I did not want to associate with it. Good to see a reasoned discussion here but ,I note, if someone sticks up for the present SCR there is a tendency to shout them down and call them "adversaries"or similar. WRONG. They just have a different view,which deserves respect.
Now to my point. As I say, I was kind of connected to SCR at the time of the changes, and I think it's time for a reality check, so here goes.
1. NP had no choice but to carry out the actions he did because of orders from way up above because of plummeting figures. It was not his decision. Why do you think he gave up his management position?
2. If the presenters in question had behaved themselves on-air at the time, things may have had a different outcome but they chose to "go public" in a way that made it impossible for the BEEB to back down. I hear that all sorts of behind the scenes stuff was going on ..offers were made but, it is said egos got in the way.
3. One presenter even did a bit of technical sabotage. He has no chance of getting back in.
4. It is a strange radio station...as one of you said earlier, it's a regional station with 2 disparate counties thrown together...and whoever thought of putting "Southern" into it's title, when another local station had established itself with that name, needs shooting. No wonder SCR listeners are confused as to whom they are listening. Imagine how they fill in their RAJAR.
5. The message board reaction was bad and silly. One of the previous presenters was said to be ashamed by the reaction and wanted to distance himself from the comments but thought better of it.
6.The current presenters are no better or worse than the former...it's just a matter of taste and opinion. I am sure when they move on, in this fickle business a few people will protest, as they do now, and things will move on. It's called change and it hurts some.
6. It's a pity so much weight is put on ratings. Figure do not speak for themselves, they prove very little and can be made to say anything as was proved on the other board by interested parties on all sides. Local radio is more than just ratings and fan worship. Give it a break, and beware, in the current climate, some vested interests would like nothing better than to close it down, and some of you are, without knowing it, helping their cause. Is that what you want?

[npbgihtp]

Very interesting horrendous to hear a different point of view. I for one was disgusted with the changes but then you only hear one side of the story. I fail however to see the changes as an improvement, I have never liked NPs style. Nothing personal, I just find him boorish and arrogant. Gordon Astley, well I am sure someone at SCR ws taking the p***. He sounds like he comes from the 1970s. I no longer listen to SCR and will not again. I do however accept that the old presenters will not return which I feel sad about because some of them John Radford and Bill Buckley in my opinion were excellent.

[Martin Phillp]

I heard BBC SCR during daytime for the first time in two years, what the hell has happened?

The 9-1 show has become an Alan Partridge parody with very little in the way of speech, no guests and very little listener contributions. I had to recheck that I wasn't listening to a commercial AC station.

Then the strapline, "The New Sound of Surrey and NE Hants" which was then followed by travel news for the whole of the TSA which had a Sussex bias.

Compare this to BBC Essex which has a 75/25 speech content during daytime with guests and phone-in's and something is seriously wrong at Brighton.

[surreylizzy]

Hello Horrendous. Thank you for your comments, even though they make me feel rather like a naughty schoolgirl who has just been chastised. In answer to some of your comments: I think a lot of the message board posts were made by upset, disgruntled people who felt they were not being listened to. I feel the message board reaction was neither 'bad nor silly' It was made by the nature of the changes and the way they were introduced. I personally feel that the current presenters are not up to the standard of the previous ones by a long way. I cannot for the life of me understand how Mr Gordon Astley is allowed to continue to goad the listeners with with the continued use of his childish bell and references to Poets Day. As you say it's a pity so much weight is put on ratings, were it not, this silly situation would not have occured. I would really like to know if the 'powers that be' at the Beeb really think the changes have had the desired effect, given that the Rajar figures are not exactly inspiring?. The way SCR is now, it would not matter to me one jot if it ceased broadcasting tomorrow. Having said that, I used to love the 'old' SCR. This whole sorry mess may not hace been NPs fault as you say but I remember the dismissive way he held the 'explaination' broadcast on Joe Talbot's show. It made my blood boil. Also another point you make is 'if the presenters had behaved themselves on air' How do you think they are going to behave when they hear they are going to be sacked? If I was treated like that when I was fullfilling my contractual obligations professionally, and had done nothing wrong, I personally would have been furious. In my job I would have called the unions in and possibly even gone to the papers. I believe that the managers of SCR have shot themselves in the foot. I don't know how they are going to get out of it. At the moment they seem to be taking the Ostrich approach. However, all this is just my opinion.

[Ridgieman]

I used to listen to Southern Counties a fair bit, but since the departure of Bill Buckley to LBC, Dominic Busby and Ed Douglas the station seems jsut so dull. Where is Ed these days?

[FB1969]

Originally Posted by Martin Phillp

The 9-1 show has become an Alan Partridge parody

PMSL!!!


To answer Ridgieman, other than a few "sightings" doing Radio Kent travel news, little is known of Ed's whereabouts. You probably know that Dom is now presenting the Radio Devon breakfast show.

[idiot_box]

hi Horrendous (I'm sure you're not by the way )

You make some interesting points and observations and your "insider" status does bring a new aspect to the debate.

Originally Posted by horrendous

Have just been made aware of this site. I was a lurker on the "other" site, but as an insider with the BBC felt it wrong to join in. Now I have a sort of freedom to comment, plus a lot of the contributions were just plain nasty and vitriolic and I did not want to associate with it. Good to see a reasoned discussion here but ,I note, if someone sticks up for the present SCR there is a tendency to shout them down and call them "adversaries"or similar. WRONG. They just have a different view,which deserves respect.
Now to my point. As I say, I was kind of connected to SCR at the time of the changes, and I think it's time for a reality check, so here goes.

Originally Posted by horrendous

1. NP had no choice but to carry out the actions he did because of orders from way up above because of plummeting figures. It was not his decision. Why do you think he gave up his management position? .

I've speculated in the past that NP was "carrying out orders", which is a worrying indictment of the way the BBC is run. From what I cave seen of the RAJAR stats, the "plummeting figures" of September 05 were an aberation of an otherwise steady trend. It smacked of knee jerk reaction and not very well thought out. I understand that NP felt his position as Managing Editor had become untenable under these circumstances, but to award yourself the prime show by sacking the station's most popular presenter was never going to endear you to the audience. The sation still has to recover from this position.

I also find it hard to square the outcome from the changes to what NP stated were his intentions when he did his piece on Joe's programme in the Spring of 2006. What happened to the "new harder edge"? If anything, things are far lees sharp than they were in the past, with a distinct feeling of "tabloid radio".

Originally Posted by horrendous

2. If the presenters in question had behaved themselves on-air at the time, things may have had a different outcome but they chose to "go public" in a way that made it impossible for the BEEB to back down. I hear that all sorts of behind the scenes stuff was going on ..offers were made but, it is said egos got in the way.
3. One presenter even did a bit of technical sabotage. He has no chance of getting back in..

I am very sad to hear this, I suppose, as with some of the harsher comments made in "the other place" it was born out of frustration, but bad behaviour can not be condoned.

Originally Posted by horrendous

4. It is a strange radio station...as one of you said earlier, it's a regional station with 2 disparate counties thrown together...and whoever thought of putting "Southern" into it's title, when another local station had established itself with that name, needs shooting. No wonder SCR listeners are confused as to whom they are listening. Imagine how they fill in their RAJAR...

I can not disagree with any of that.

Originally Posted by horrendous

5. The message board reaction was bad and silly. One of the previous presenters was said to be ashamed by the reaction and wanted to distance himself from the comments but thought better of it....

I do not think it was all "bad and silly", it was a legitimate forum for expressing our opinions. If things did get near the knuckle then messages were moderated. Neither was it all negative, on many occasions people tried to be constructive. It was interesting that two of the current presenters chose to interact on that thread.

Originally Posted by horrendous

6.The current presenters are no better or worse than the former...it's just a matter of taste and opinion. I am sure when they move on, in this fickle business a few people will protest, as they do now, and things will move on. It's called change and it hurts some. ....

I know the style and personality of a presenter will always be a matter of personal choice, but I honestly think the quality has deteriorated and the content diminished since April 06. I am not against change per se, things do need to move on and evolve, but the manner in which these changes were implemented, and the resulting station, I believe, leaves a lot to be desired. I could understand it more if they really did bring in some new blood to pep up the output, but all the main presenters have been "round the block" a few times and were never going to bring fresh ideas and innovation. Meanwhile, the "young bloods" (Joe and Sarah) seemed to have been sidelined.

If the intention was to attract a younger audience (often a misguided strategy), then it ain't gonna happen with the current line-up.

Originally Posted by horrendous

6. It's a pity so much weight is put on ratings. Figure do not speak for themselves, they prove very little and can be made to say anything as was proved on the other board by interested parties on all sides. Local radio is more than just ratings and fan worship. Give it a break, and beware, in the current climate, some vested interests would like nothing better than to close it down, and some of you are, without knowing it, helping their cause. Is that what you want?

I find the last bit of this quite chilling . Is it possible for you to elaborate?

I know some view us as a "bunch of anoraks", (I don't own one myself ), but it's because we care about "our" local station and want it to be a success. It's just that we do not honestly believe that what has happened since April 06 is going to achieve that.

Chops

[BlackScorpion]

Yes - its a shame so much emphasis is put on ratings. The way its going SCR could end up broadcasting to one or two people ... but lets not worry about ratings... they are still broadcasting so thats OK.

I dont think there is anybody in the radio business who thinks that changing the entire daytime output - effectively overnight - is a sensible course of action. Whomever is "way up" in the BBC that might have OK'd/authorised/directed Neil Pringle's action must have known this. If Neil had not wanted it that way, he had a choice too. He may have stood down as manager but he could have resigned instead of implementing something he wasnt happy with. So, we can reasonably conclude he was happy with it.

However much a minority we are, we are still a thorn in their side. As several of us commented on the SCR board thread, if the figures improved then the New Sound Of Sussex would be a success. But they haven't. They may have continued the steady loss of listeners if thats what you believe was happening or they may be acclerating the decline. They aint improving it.

Yes. Its a valid point that radical change will take time to "bed -in". But again, as we said at the time "how long do we wait". And why should we not continue to make a noise about how decrepit the output has become and how the figures fail to match up to whomevers decision it was. More to the point... we are still here complaining after 19 months and the figures are still falling.

But lets not talk about figures.

The style and presentation of the current presenters does not match well with the previous incumbents. You may think that they are all just presenters in which case...who cares about local radio. The point is it was a station that invited participation. You felt you were chatting over a beer or a coffee with the whole of Sussex Surrey and NE Hampshire. And now, the feeling is that your opinions dont count. Your intelligence is insulted before you even bother to look at a keybaord or reach for the phone. Why would you bother?

The fact is, it isnt involving the public like it used to, it isnt covering local news and issues like it used to, even the format and background style was off-putting (although they've addressed some of those issues).

Its a disaster area however you dress it up and trying to shift blame to some other nebulous person in the BBC doesnt wash. Name names.

Bottom line - SCR continues to put off listeners and tinkering around the edges will not change the fundamental flaws.

[mugs]

Originally Posted by Martin Phillp

I heard BBC SCR during daytime for the first time in two years, what the hell has happened?

The 9-1 show has become an Alan Partridge parody with very little in the way of speech, no guests and very little listener contributions. I had to recheck that I wasn't listening to a commercial AC station.

Then the strapline, "The New Sound of Surrey and NE Hants" which was then followed by travel news for the whole of the TSA which had a Sussex bias.

Compare this to BBC Essex which has a 75/25 speech content during daytime with guests and phone-in's and something is seriously wrong at Brighton.

That's the whole point,it has become like a commercial station without the adverts at times whilst there's non-stop talk at other times,therefore it will continue to struggle with ratings because it's all over the place and as i mentioned before if it can't offer anything particularily worthwhile or entertaining people will tune to a more local station or a national station rather than to a regional station which has lost it's way and identity.As far as Mr.Astley goes he was on commercial radio in the 70's in the Midlands and i think he was fine for that type of audience.

[Gingerfake]

Hi All, just managed to register, took me ages. I now know what it feels like to be a refugee!!!. The SCR message board is starting to look as anodyne as the output.... but that I guess is what they wanted. I havent listened to SCR at all this week, not even to the news.... I have lost the will to be even bothered to do that. I might listen to the boys on Saturday......