We suck. Gentoo sucks. Really.
We (300 devs) aren’t able to implement features that 10 developers implemented in a year.
Gentoo Council can’t make decisions.
Gentoo/Freebsd and Gentoo/Interix (Gentoo/Alt in general) aren’t projects from what users will benefit.
Portage is a mess of spaghetti procedural code with no underlying design (and be careful, –jobs will surely break your system).
Gento developers are trying to hide other devs work.
And every gentoo dev is a lier. Because gentoo itself and its features don’t exist. They’re only in your mind. Or in an island in the pacific sea. With Jim Morrison and the Area 51 aliens. And me probably.
I’m depressed. I’m depressed of seeing things like this.
This isn’t the way to stop the “war” and the fud. IMHO.
UPDATE: Read here for more informations
You don’t have to be depressed just because of one idiot. Kick him out from gentoo dev and come back to happy development. Peace!
Comment by Anton — August 20, 2008 @ 1:33 am
The “kick them out of my sandbox!” theme is the most annoying part of Gentoo. Look, you won’t all get along. But you have to respect technical contribution. People that are rude should be censured, but not banned, especially when they’re still contributing.
@Dav_it: yet, every day I see N new packages on my nightly pretend upgrade. I don’t know that I’d say Gentoo doesn’t suck … all computer-related things suck. But I might say gentoo rocks, but it could rock so much more.
Comment by jsled — August 20, 2008 @ 1:53 am
I agree whole heartedly. Gentoo is in an abysmal state technically as well as otherwise.
The only thing I don’t agree with is your suggestion that I shouldn’t blog about such things. Hiding things definitely isn’t going to help and Gentoo is trying to hide way too many bad or embarrising things. That’s not the way forward.
Comment by Bryan Østergaard — August 20, 2008 @ 7:47 am
Should I quit using Gentoo? What alternatives do I have?
Comment by Jason — August 20, 2008 @ 7:54 am
Too bad irony and sarcasm don’t work on the internet….
Comment by Jan — August 20, 2008 @ 8:10 am
dav_it, sorry, but have you ever questioned yourself, why Gentoo suck?
Maybe because you did zero commits? Ah true, you entered Gentoo one year ago as Artwork and GWN developer, but then why GWN became dead as Chris dropped it? Are you very active in GMN?
Please, don’t expand your feeling about yourself work on whole Gentoo… Stop whining. Just start doing anything and and if you do let people finally see what you do. We really need help even in artwork e.g. for each release. Where you’ve been?
Comment by anonymouse — August 20, 2008 @ 9:46 am
I see no war. I see a bunch of people who disagreed with the majority of the gentoo developers. These people left to play in their own sandbox. You subsequently threw out those of them who would’ve liked to work for both projects. Some of them left on their own accord after that, because they lost faith in gentoo after seeing the way gentoo treated Philantrop.
I see the results of gentoo’s treatment of its own developers - its own blood. Gentoo is indeed in a sorry state if you take offense by Bryan pointing out where an idea originated.
This is not the way you two groups should work together. They left, played in their sandbox, came up with some good ideas and were more than willing to share them. And you get upset over that? Get a grip, please.
Comment by Anonymous — August 20, 2008 @ 10:51 am
I suggest you take it back and apologize. seriously.
Comment by Anonymous — August 20, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
> We suck. Gentoo sucks. Really.
> …
It pains me to have to point out to you that in reality you only speak for yourself.
Comment by anon — August 20, 2008 @ 12:30 pm
“Gento developers are trying to hide other devs work.”
For the love of some unknown deity how do you come to the conclusion that Diego is “hiding” someone else’s work ? or for that matter Bryan Østergaard ?
You make it sound like some kind of sinister conspiracy, when all that Diego did was to not approve a comment from someone on HIS blog. Being that it is HIS blog he has every right to chose which posts he accepts and which he rejects.
There is nothing sinister here, no “hiding” and no more censorship than is necessarily entailed in deciding which posts shall appear in ones blog.
I have no doubt as to the technical merit of spb’s work- the same can be said of cianrm. But I utterly fail to see the point of including them, or their contributions -by referencing their work in the Gentoo blogs of Gentoo developers. Have we not already had enough bad blood between Gentoo and those devs who either left the project or were kicked and later became the Exherbo devs ?
Technical merits are one thing. The ability to civilly coexist with your peers is another thing. The Exherbo devs demonstrated repeatedly their inability to civilly coexist with other Gentoo devs.
Why is Deigo obligated to give credit to people he a) personally dislikes b) to the very people that were the nexus of almost all in-fighting in Gentoo over the last 3 years-which led to the alienation of many, many devs and which hurt Gentoo tremendously.
By saying that Gentoo is “hiding” some supposedly valuable contribution by spd-what you are doing is adding fuel to the fire of in-fighting between Gentoo devs and Exherbo. You are allowing yourself to be used as a tool in a battle about which you obviously know very little.
Your hyperbolic response “Gentoo sucks” is extremely immature. Just because the world is not pure beauty, peace and harmony, because the world does not conform to your overly idealistic dreams, you cannot conclude that everything Gentoo either sucks or is non-existent.
Please back down from your idealistic mountain and accept that *there will be no peace and harmony between Gentoo and Exherbo devs*. Full stop. What has happened has happened and there is no magic undo button.
Please do not throw your two cents into an open wound like salt-If you had taken the time to inform yourself about the history of bad blood going on here you would never have made such a post.
You will never achieve the lofty ideals which you hold by dissing your fellow devs, and belittling the project. Neither will praising Exherbo’s accomplishments (ahem) lead you to the promised land of your lofty ideals. Take the time to inform yourself about what has transpired and have enough trust in your fellow devs to assume that they may have good reasons to make the choices that they do-this is basic respect.
Comment by iwbcman — August 20, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Probably my english is too bad, and noone understood I was ironic and I was joking.
I actually love gentoo and I’ll not leave it (for now).
P.S. I’m active in gentoo-bsd team.
Comment by dav_it — August 20, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
Yes, Diego can do whatever he wants on his blog but that doesn’t mean it’s neccessarily a good idea.
One good reason that there won’t be any peace between Gentoo and Exherbo is that some Gentoo developers persistently do everything they can to keep it that way.
David Leverton was clearly trying to help Diego and Gentoo by pointing towards spb’s work. Ignoring that is at best rather silly.
If he was trying to troll or flame I would agree that not allowing the post might be good but ignoring help is only hurting users and definitely not a good idea.
I’d be rather happy to see people work together instead of fighting each other but both sides need to make an effort for that to happen.
The only one making an effort to help and work together here was David Leverton and the only thing that Diego could possibly hope by censoring the comment is that David won’t try to help Gentoo again.
Is that really what people want? That we don’t even try to help each other?
That’s not how I want the open source developer community to be at least and I hope nobody else wants it to be that way.
Comment by Bryan Østergaard — August 20, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
> Probably my english is too bad, and noone understood I was ironic and I was joking.
If that is the case, I would suggest that you should be extra careful with what you write/say.
Comment by anon — August 20, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
lmao. Dav_it you fooled me on this one. Maybe your english is good enough and I simply forgot to engage my brain( I will admit that I have such an allergy to these issues that I often jump to false conclusions).
At any rate I am glad that you don’t actually hold these views.
me dumb,
hides head in sand
Comment by iwbcman — August 20, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
[...] — Tags: gentoo — Ciaran McCreesh @ 3:12 pm For those of you wondering what this is all [...]
Pingback by Now look what I’ve done « Ciaran McCreesh’s Blag — August 20, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
> Technical merits are one thing. The ability to civilly coexist with your peers is another thing. The Exherbo devs demonstrated repeatedly their inability to civilly coexist with other Gentoo devs.
> Why is Deigo obligated to give credit to people he a) personally dislikes b) to the very people that were the nexus of almost all in-fighting in Gentoo over the last 3 years-which led to the alienation of many, many devs and which hurt Gentoo tremendously.
You are a disgusting liar.
Comment by dleverton — August 20, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
Stop whining and do something. I can’t imagine a better Linux distribution then Gentoo.
Comment by Guest — August 20, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
duh most of us live in a free world…
Exherbo devs are free to take whatever they want from gentoo, change it, publish it etc etc
The thing is that the whole freedom packet does not include necessarily support and cooperation from gentoo devs…
If they wanted to say something like that they have features that gentoo has not they could include it to their next announcement (after the first announcement of an imaginary new distro); you know what i mean… “we have many more features than gentoo but you don’t want them, no you don’t, nononononono, but it’s not that we hate you”
They even slashdoted last time so the information flow will not be stopped by a blocked comment in a blog lol
Comment by Constantine — August 20, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
> The thing is that the whole freedom packet does not include necessarily support and cooperation from gentoo devs…
We’re not asking Gentoo devs to “support” us, however, if we go out of our way to provide potentially useful information to Gentoo, some kind of thanks or acknowledgment wouldn’t go amiss.
> (after the first announcement of an imaginary new distro)
I really, really hope you’re not suggesting that Exherbo is imaginary. If so, you clearly haven’t made even the slightest attempt to discover the facts before spewing your drivel in public.
> They even slashdoted last time
Wrong. Someone else posted the announcement to Slashdot, not us.
> so the information flow will not be stopped by a blocked comment in a blog lol
It’s not a question of “information flow”, it’s about us attempting to co-operate with Gentoo, and one Gentoo dev refusing because of some silly, petty little feud.
Comment by dleverton — August 20, 2008 @ 9:14 pm
“We’re not asking Gentoo devs to “support” us, however, if we go out of our way to provide potentially useful information to Gentoo, some kind of thanks or acknowledgment wouldn’t go amiss.”
http://www.exherbo.org -> ctrl+F -> Find: gentoo -> Phrase not found
rrrrright ^^;
“It’s not a question of “information flow”, it’s about us attempting to co-operate with Gentoo, and _ONE_ Gentoo dev refusing because of some silly, petty little feud.”
Following lists for couple years now, that counting is really highly optimistic
You just cannot force a cooperation…
As you people say, exherbo is not even a fork!
So why you care about gentoo anyway >.<
Comment by Constantine — August 20, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
> http://www.exherbo.org -> ctrl+F -> Find: gentoo -> Phrase not found
rrrrright ^^;
Ah yes. That’s because a certain other Gentoo dev demanded that we removed all mention of Gentoo from out site.
Comment by dleverton — August 21, 2008 @ 5:06 am
Wow. Really i just thought that this is an exherbo “sponsored” post, but after update, some comments here, and digging about mentioned points see the post quite differently. From standard rant to funny comment… LOL
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