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Published online 10 March 2009 |
Nature
| doi:10.1038/news.2009.150
Updated online: 18 March 2009
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Turkish scientists claim Darwin censorship
Science-funding agency accused of removing evolution article — and its editor — from mainstream magazine.
The main Turkish government agency responsible for funding science has provoked outrage by apparently censoring a magazine article on the life and work of Charles Darwin.
The article was stripped from the March issue of the widely read popular-science magazine Bilim ve Teknik (Science and Technology) just before it went to press.
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"provoked outrage by APPARENTLY censoring a magazine article" WHAT? Are they not sure it was censored? Perhaps it was just a poorly written article (like so many others--academics really should learn to write better.) Or is this whole article just making a mountain out of a mole hill?
Mike - why would an article that was merely poorly written be pulled "just before it went to press"? You would have thought someone would have noticed before then.
Please take a look of the comments on the Nature Opinion Forum "Science, journalism or public discourse?" at http://network.nature.com/groups/naturenewsandopinion/forum/topics/4044
Bob-- Thanks for the comment. I suppose we would not know if it were poorly written unless we had read it--in Turkish. More seriously though, in the publishing business, many things get "bumped" at the last minute, when a more critical piece presents itself. There need not be sinister motives.
I am Turkish and currently a postdoc in USA. The mentioned magazine (Bilim ve Teknik) is a publication of Tubitak which was recently stripped off it's independent status and were associated to a ministry therefore being under direct control and regulation of the prime minister. Both the president and vice-president of TUBITAK assignments were part of a huge discussion awhile back as they were politically motivated rather than merit based. Also this is neither the first of its kind nor an isolated issue to one magazine. There had been issues on natural history museums evolution sections before the prime-minister visited them. Access to some web sites (like Richard Dawkins')were banned in Turkey. Some high-school teachers got punished because of the way they taught evolution in the class (it's supposed to be part of the curriculum). The ruling political party's views toward fundamentalism and promoting religion in the classrooms is also well know.
Mark, beware that it is not only the article that is banned, it is the whole issue. The magazine went to a complete change of the subject and did not include a word of Darwin. I wish it was simple a dislike of an article in the last minute (which is not so professional either). Censorship and Turkey goes along in many ways especially after the AKP (also the current) government. They want more Islamic and a less rational country. Just another example of democracy being a dangerous weapon when used unwisely.
Mark, beware that it is not only the article that is banned, it is the whole issue. The magazine went to a complete change of the subject and did not include a word of Darwin. I wish it was simple a dislike of an article in the last minute (which is not so professional either). Censorship and Turkey goes along in many ways especially after the AKP (also the current) government. They want more Islamic and a less rational country. Just another example of democracy being a dangerous weapon when used unwisely.
This is an outragous event, perhaps only comparable to Lysenko events of the Soviet Russia in scale. Science is blatantly being whacked by fundamental religious policies in Turkey. In an interconnected world, we can't ignore and leave a node boil with its problems. I am very pleased that Nature carried this serious issue promptly to the agenda of the international scientific community.
We dont believe evolution theory in Turkey. As everybody knows, Richard Dawkins does not accept to debate with Adnan Oktar. Becuse he couldnt give any answer for these questions: Only 5 of 100 million fossils are laid before you You?re asked if a single protein can emerge by chance The existence of 100 million fossils are mentioned The emergence of irreducibly complex systems of living things are asked You apprehend you have no answer about the emergence of life You have no answer for the Cambrian animals You have no explanation for Darwinist forgeries Another news: Darwinist Douglas Futuyma flees in Rome!In Pontifical Gregorian University, Darwinists intended to show off and deceive people, but they were riposted. Douglas Futuyma left the platform in the face of truth. Futuyma found the solution in fleeing, just like Richard Dawkins. You can watch this link: http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/douglas_futuyma_flees.php You can also read all books about The Collapse of the Theory of Evolution: http://www.harunyahya.com/en.m_book_list.php?cId=76 http://www.harunyahya.com/en.m_book_list.php?cId=77 And please visit web page about Darwinist Cries and Panic who preoared by Adnan oktar http://www.harunyahya.com/en.m_website_index.php I want to congratulate Tübitak for this correct decision, nobody believes this absurdity in Turkey in this century!
As far as I know, National Science Education Standards (1996), The Nature of Science and Teaching about Evolution (1998) and Inquiry and National Science Education Standards (2000) were all published by National Research Council. Interestingly in Turkey, science education and other curriculum under revision on behalf of constructivism and all above aforementioned texts were ( being claimed) used as reference books except The Nature of Science and Teaching about Evolution. Again interestingly, Benchmarks for Science Literarcy (1993) was used as a reference book for newly curriculum development. Unfortunately, this is not all true. We merely can see the reference books in reference list though there is nothing about NSES or about the nature of science. Again unfortunately, constructivism in educational settings has been presented as DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. Sincerely
I am a university graduate in Turkey. In fact everybody in our country knows factually, based on evidence, that - evolution theory is a lie. Turkish people are very intelligent and we will not accept this fabrication. There is not one single transitional fossil, there is not one single evidence to show that graduation has occurred in nature. For 300-400 millions of years, living beings have not changed. We believe our eyes, not Darwin!
Just read what Darwin said on his own theory: ---------------------------------------------- "I AM QUITE CONSCIOUS THAT MY SPECULATIONS RUN QUITE BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF TRUE SCIENCE." N.C. Gillespie, Charles Darwin and the Problem of Creation, University of Chicago, 1979, p. 2.) We know that Darwin's theory is NOT true science at all...
Darwin's idea is in the depths of the history not only in Turkey but through the world. Darwin himself also confesses that his theory is under many difficulties. If he didn't think so, he wouldn't write a chapter called ?Difficulties On Theory? in his book ?The Origin of Species?. The sentences below are Darwin?s own words dear all. Please read and decide your self. I do not make any comment but let you see his OWN words about HIS theory. And these are only some of his confessions. There are more and more. Pray do not think that I am so blind as not to see that there are numerous immense difficulties in my notions. (Francis Darwin, The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I, New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1888, p. 395) From a letter to Asa Gray, a close friend and Professor of Biology at Harvard University: ?I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science.? (N.C. Gillespie, Charles Darwin and the Problem of Creation, University of Chicago, 1979, p. 2) I fancy I have lately removed many great difficulties opposed to my notions, but God knows it may be all hallucination. (Francis Darwin, The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I, p. 439) For myself, also, I rejoice profoundly; for, thinking of so many cases of men pursuing an illusion for years, often and often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether I may not have devoted my life to phantasy. (Francis Darwin, The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. II, p. 25) But just in proportion as this process of extermination has acted on an enormous scale, so must the number of intermediate varieties, which have formerly existed, be truly enormous. Why, then, is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against my theory. (Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, New York: The Modern Library, pp. 124-25)
I believe in Turkish people are as intelligent as the others. We should know not to discriminate people; as a society, we should learn to separate scientific process (I am not talking about dogmas)and sincere religious beliefs. I humbly suggest people to read aforementioned texts and also below books. 1-Hoodbhoy, P. (1985). Ideological problems for science in Pakistan. (In A. Khan (Ed.), Islam, politics and the state (pp. 178-191). London: Zed Books.) 2-Hoodbhoy, P. (1991). Islam and science: Religious orthodoxy and the battle for rationality. (London: Zed Books) I am quite sure that people are really aware that we need more and more library,books, and museums etc. Now, I really understand the crucial importance of museums.:) Without reading and giving wrong database to people will work for a while. However, this event will take Turkey far behind contemporary world. We might all lose. We, as scientist should work together let all countries take a step forward not to back. This is our mission. After all, like or regret, support or deny (I am not quite sure though), we promised to be member of EU. Could you tell me anyone, which country in the Europe is denial in terms of biological evolution? Sincerely,
If there is no evidence in a theory, we do not believe it. This is as clear as the sun in the sky. There is - NO - evidence for any gradual development in nature. Where do you find step by step evolution in nature? Half developed noses? Half developed smelling ability? Half developed ribosomes? Half developed pancreas? Half developed lungs? Just do not breath for more than a few minutes, you die! Reason and logic work hand in hand and science decides on reason. Darwin was wrong! There is no evolution in the entirety of living organisms. Otherwise, the earth would be filled with mutants and all fossils unearthed would come up to be freaks. Please think without prejudice for a few seconds. Darwin fooled the entire world.
Harun Yahya has long told about a global Darwinist dictatorship, which has control over almost every institution, publication etc all over the world. But this dictatorship will eventually collapse. What has happened now here in Turkey is just an example of standing up against this dictatorship. Bravo!
I also want to add that, not believing in Darwinisim is not a blimpishness. On the contrary it is the most right thing to do. Charles Darwin proposed a theory based on various observations made during his travels, which weren?t supported by any subsequent scientific findings. He made no experiments he just used his imaginations. As Andrew Marr On BBC explained Darwin took a mirror, looked at himself, then looked at a monkey, then he thought about the natives he saw on an island and then he decided that people have evolved from apes!!! A single protein can not be produced in the laboratories even today although thousands of proffessors try to. So how can we assume that all living things are come into life from a mud or a primeval soap by chance and random changes? How can a rational man believe that? Turkish people are more intelligent than Darwin thinks. All the world will see that in a few years. As it?s named IT?S JUST A THEORY AND NEVER PROOVED BY ANY SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS.
Dear people, My academic mentors also have made their own self-criticism, this is a part of scientific process. This is a part of being an open-minded person. This should be recognized as being humble. This is also a part of the term theory. Theory cannot be destruct and should be always under modification. If we use this kind of quotes, that does not make Darwin open target. Do not forget, we are talking about scientific process not dogmas. Please set scientist free, let people more happy Sincerely,
Scientists; we have been under the indoctrination of Darwinist thinking for the last 150 years. We were given no other alternatives, all text books and exams questioned us on the so-called validity of evolution theory. We were turned into non-questioning, non-challenging individuals, and this was the main objective of the Darwinist dictatorship really. To take young brains and minds, then shape them into Darwinists and evolutionists that will continue the propaganda of this LIE. This is the worst - ever trap that humankind has fallen into. A deadly, mortal man, Darwin conjectures lies and imagination in a book and the entire world tries to pursue this lie even centuries after his death. True Scientists should search for the truth. Truth lies on facts and findings, as well as observation. We observe total precision and accuracy in the entire universe, galaxies, the Earth, in organ systems, in the cell, in the eye, in the brain. Even one tiny destruction in the body, for instance excessive release of the hormone Insuline in the blood, could cause death if not treated. How could life occur through trials and errors? Evolution idea is totally a lie, and Scientists do not believe it.
DEAR ARTICLE READERS! The above commenting Turkish people are most probably members of a religious order in Turkey. The name Harun Yahya they keep saying is a false name, a pen name. There is no one as Harun Yahya. This religious order aims propagating creationist theory, along with many other things of course. Interestingly, this issue seems very important to them. They work very methodologically, cleverly and punctually in a hierarchical structure for propagating creationist theory and they spend a good deal of money also. Obviously they received a mission as to propagate Harun Yahya and creationist theory within this article. This is why many commentators suddenly popped up and declared in the name of all Turkish nation (as if everybody in Turkey shares the same view with them) that "we don't believe in evolution theory in Turkey". As a careful reader would easily notice, this is completely wrong along with being ridiculous. All people in our country share the very same view as theirs would be impossible even under the Soviet order, let our democracy. This approach, i.e., presenting all Turkish people thinking the same, is obviously a strategic tactic for them for their ugly mission. On the contrary many people in our country responded negatively to the censorship of Darwinism in this magazine and public demonstrations are planned. What I ask from Nature's editors is to remove above comments or display them with a notification indicating that they are heavily biased beyond personal beliefs, because they are.
Mert, the things you say (like non-questioning, non-challenging individuals) are ironically similar to many peoples thoughts on religious dogmas. The aim of science is not creating people like you told, just the opposite. To question something, you need to read and research first. How it's possible with censorship? I'm a grad student in Turkey and I must admit that science, scientists and scientific researches in my country are suffering in the hands of current government. The magazine 'Bilim ve Teknik' has lost its quality greatly after the managerial changes, which were done by the government, in Tübitak. FYI, Tübitak has translated and pressed many different books about evolution, genetics, Darwinism and many related or unrelated books about this topic before government's interferences. After these interferences, the printing house of any books except 2 magazines, was shut down. Sadly, this whole thing is revolving around a well known fact: The censorship in science and press is becoming a daily issue in Turkey...
It is deeply disturbing to see so many people commenting here are either profoundly ignorant of modern scientific discoveries regarding evolution of species or have decided to turn a blind eye on available evidence and keep repeating the same old creation theory without adding any positive evidence for it. Now for those who are willing to read there is lot of material on net. Only hard part is to come out of the religious indoctrination. for people with trouble about transitional fossils, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil)
Dear Sir, It is really difficult to understand how people (people who earlier commented) could categorically claim that we Turks do not believe in Darwin. We, like the USA, have some religious fanatic groups (nowadays very powerful and and rich) who try to promote religion over science by coming up with ingenious third ways such as "intelligent design" and similar nonsense, and heavily funding religion based education both in the country and abroad. Their Khomeini (!), Fethullah Gulen, is actually living in the USA. A large proportion of Turks are moderate, secular moslems and we do believe in science and therefore in Darwin. What is happening in the censorship case is very unsettling but not unexpected of the current administration which has been in power for the last 6 years.There are also some charlatans with very generous funding sources who can afford to publish glossy expensive books to repudiate evolution and send them for free to all the academicians in the country and it appears that they originate in the USA. So it seems to be a part of an international scheme rather than a local one. So the fight against them should also be an international one. Best regards. Vasif Hasirci
Unfortunately, like evangelists in the United States Harun Yahya i.e. Adnan Oktar and his soldiers fight against the idea of evolution in turkey. Having no scientific background, these people go after such silly ideas without thinking, without knowing. Because they don't have ability to think. They only do what Adnan Oktar tells them. You can see that they all talk with the same words, they all say the same things. They have no idea about scientific thinking. They can't say something different, in fact they can't say something rational. They're proud of being uneducated and ignorant. They just read the books of Adnan Oktar and nobody else. So please, read something else, learn to think and then try to say something!
Just to put things into perspective for non-Turkish readers, Harun Yahya a.k.a. Adnan Oktar can be considered the Turkish equivalent of a TV Evangelist and has a limited following in Turkey. In other words, claims like "We dont believe evolution theory in Turkey", or "everybody in our country knows factually, based on evidence, that - evolution theory is a lie" are, to put it mildly, misleading generalizations that put words into other people's mouths.
As a Turkish citizen, I see that Adnan Oktar and his dogmatic ideas has found a popular base among Turkish people. I believe Turkey will be a more religous state than Iran. Thus, there is no need to be surprised about Darwin's being ruled out in educational and research institutes. Just keep watching, you will see the proofs of devolution in "one minute".
I am appalled by the large number of people who are so *sure* that Darwin was wrong (and even lying) when postulating his theory. Apart from the question how anybody who regularly visits this site here can still claim that there is *no* evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of evolution (ever read one of the articles covering topics such as molecular biology?), a theory is a *foundation* upon which scientific discourse is based. Thus, to say that a theory is *wrong* and therefore should have no place in rational / scientific thinking is a contradiction in itself. A theory can only be falsified, and this only happens when unrefutable evidence is found that contradicts its postulates. As long as this has not happened, the theory has still considered to be *valid*. This is very similar to jurisdiction, where a defendant is to be considered innocent until his guilt is proved (as we do not want to condemn the innocent, do we?).
Mike - The article was not changed for something better. It was simply taken off, and the issue appeared with less pages than it usually had, and about one week later. Besides these facts, I have (had until yesterday) been writing a two page section on the journal about recreational mathematics, and via direct conversations, I know that it is a direct assault by the vice president and the president of TUBITAK to the editor. I admire your skepticism, but this is what happenned, sorry. It is also interesting to see that the comments for this article of Nature, which I had expected to be about censorship, which is the *only* issue here, are instead flooded with low quality anti-evolutionary spam, some of which I suspect is being directly funded by Harun Yahya, the once famous high-society charlatan, now the famous "anti-evolutionist".
I am a PhD student in Turkey. To people who claim that they do not believe in Darwin or evolution: You may criticize Darwin's theory, and of course you may find mistakes. But if you claim that you do not believe in evolution, please do not put yourself in a scientific discussion. You are either not a scientist or do not have anything related with scientific thinking. First of all, its not about believing! This is not a religion; it is science, based on evidence, experiments, and logic. Have you ever heard of mutations? Do you have any idea about the conserved genomic sequences among species? More simply stated: do you know how similar is your liver to chimps, rats, or even to fish? In Turkey, we have scientists, we have institutions, universities that are doing pure scientific research. I do agree with Prof. ?engör, Tübitak is not representing science in Turkey.
Denialists of evolution (a fact now, not theory)usually do not have the fainstest idea about biology, biochemistry, medicine, botany, zoology, antropology or you name it, any other related discipline. They are talking about their religions of which there are many versions. Here is a comment made by some unknown person about the famous "missing link" concept (please don't take it more seriously than an informative joke!). The missing link between the apes and true "humans" (who are so scarce that they are invisible) is the denialists of evolution who exist by the millions and interestingly in increase! One denialist made a comment in these columns that Dawkins never accepts a discussion with the non-scientist Harun Yahya. Why should Dawkins go along with this nonsensical idea and help legitimize Yahya's rubbish?
I am disgusted by comments of some of the Turkish people. They claim that in Turkey we do not believe in Darwin's views. Who gives them the right to talk on behalf of Turkish people? Looking at their references like those of Adnan Oktar, Harun Yahya (in fact these two are the same person), those who comment in their favour apparently belong to the religious sect of that man or are his sympathizers. The so-called Harun Yahya (not a scientist) wrote a large size book weighing like hell! on high quality paper with colour pictures to ridicule and disregard Darwin's theory of evolution. This expensive book has been distributed all over the world free of charge to members of the academia. It goes to show that he has many active supporters among Turks, or his supporters are so active in responding when such an opportunity arises for them to advertise their views in a the website of a reputed journal like Nature. As a Turkish academician, I am ashamed of their nonsensical and not-at-all scientific comments. Unfortunately, TUBITAK is also governed by similar brains.
I have to congratulate most of my fellow Turks for showing the scientific world how messed up the science education in Turkey is. All of the anti-Darwinist comments are coming from the same source (HY) and neither of the people who copy/paste them here has an understanding of what they are talking about. For example the people who quoted from Darwin have never read The Origin of Species. The people who say scientists don't believe in evolution have never met scientist around the world. Worst of all they can't distinguish science from religion as they use the word "believe" with a scientific theory. They also can't understand what a theory is as the lies they are fed make them think that a theory is no more than a hypothesis hence it is prone to be wrong. As you can see the problem in Turkey is unfortunately goes very deep and the government fuels these anti-scientific views instead of trying to better the science education. PS. I know I'll get many "hate comments" after this comment. I thank those. who'll be writing them in advance as they will just strengthen my point.
Hmm...it seems that there has been an influx of crazy in many the past 20 or so comments. Presumably these are from one or a few people using different names since they are all filled with typical creationist crap you'd typically expect to hear from the bowels of Answers in Genesis...otherwise, hopefully they reflect only that small minority in Turkey following that anti-science, convicted criminal Adnan Oktar (or Harun Yahya). Yes, I said convicted criminal...look it up. I don't know too much about the political situation in Turkey, but from the Turkish people I have known and the articles I've read, I think that these extremist, anti-evolution, pro-ignorance morons are simply loud, but not numerous. This is similar to what is going on in the US and the UK...albeit this particular incident is at a much higher and more dangerous level.
Yes, Turkey is headed towards a fundamentalist religious state. Many government posts have been and are are being filled with ?mams (moslem priest), Hocas (religion teachers) and the like and our Western allies in Europe and Bush's America certainly had a great share in this by unconditionally supporting the regressive political regime here in Turkey for many years, because it has been serving Western interests so well. Turkey has almost become the new Ottoman state in providing the West with all the economic and political concessions that they enjoyed during the Ottoman times. Turkey has been a heaven for foreign money speculators (30% interest on their dollars), non productve investors who only bought real estate in summer resorts and land for farming only to take the produce to their own countries! We might say, inspired by the remarks of a past Kenya leader: "When westerners came to Turkey we had our lands and had a contemporary secular state founded by Atatürk, they told us to close our eyes, pray and contemplate on "democracy" and "freedom of religion", when we opened our eyes we had a "democracy" and "freedom of faith" (of sorts) with many of our intellectuals in jail, and they had our lands and national assets!" Learning to deny evolution was a bonus!
I am a molecular biologist with a medical background from Turkey. I am an evolutionist. I have to voice my opinions here as I see some different views. 1) To those who claim that noone believes in evolution in Turkey. Well, if you are as clever as you claim to be, you have to know people don't exist as just one prototype, we are all different from each other. Which means, I don't have to think like you do and you don't have to think like I do, which also means that you cannot generalize anyone. Which means you have to TALK ONLY FOR YOURSELF. 2) I believe all this confusion isn't just caused by the religious extrimist people. I mean religious extrimist people are basically "people with nothing else to hold on to except god". Their perception of the truth is distorted and they cannot be taken seriously (unless they have a gun - Iran&Israeli cases, or they have enough money to become dangerous - Turkish case). However, they DO have some points. And scientifically correct points too. People like Richard Dawkins, whose books I almost religiously follow, are also fanatically attached to the idea that evolution is the scientific proof that god doesn't exist. Well, this is utterly wrong! You can prove that something exists or doesn't, ONLY under certain conditions. You can say a protein doesn't interact with another protein, or a DNA sequence. You can do ChIP assay, or immunoprecipitation, or others, and you can only say it doesn't happen under YOUR circumstances, YOUR experimental conditions. You can prove that a protein's function is to initiate cell cycle arrest. You can transfect a cell line and you can show it: for that cell line only. You can only show things under your model organism, under your model disease, under your own experimental conditions ONLY. But what Dawkins (and his counterparts all over the world) do is another form of fanaticism. He is religiously trying to prove that god doesn't exist. How can anyone prove god doesn't exist? I mean yes as much as people can believe in god, people also can "not believe" in a god or any other supreme being of sorts. It is anyone's right to believe or not to believe in a supreme power. But, SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING God isn't even "defined". If you take Koran or Bible as an example, while they "try to" give an image of god, the books also claim that we can NOT take what they say as "concretely, completely true" So, the rivers of milk and honey in Eden might not really be "for real". It is just a simplification for the readers of Koran/Bible to understand, to "imagine" a beautiful place. (Plus, I hate milk and honey, and if that really is the case heaven will be hell for me anyway!) Since we don't really know the conditions of Eden (IF it exists), we cannot claim it is like that or it is not like that. SO, DAWKINS AND HIS COUNTERPARTS ARE SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG TOO! So... while I AM an evolutionist, I have certain views on God's existence, and I can understand where the religious extrimists are coming from. I believe that we HAVE TO stop fighting each other and start "reconciling" both sides. Yes, to some people, "RELIGIOUS EXTRIMISTS are idiotic fanatics with no brains" but that is not the case really: The case is they HAVE A VERY GOOD POINT. Evolution is pure, basic science itself. You don't "believe" in evolution. You KNOW evolution. It isn't a matter of faith. You see science, they are logical, they mean something. The data is robust. Repeat it under the same - or even different - conditions, they are there, again and again. They lead to only one conclusion: EVOLUTION DOES EXIST, IT HAPPENS AND IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN. But, as atheism itself is considered a religion too, the bad luck of evolutionary sciences is that its pioneers are mostly atheists and they cannot tell their faith from their science either, much like the other types of religious extrimists!
So, I am asking Mr.Sansoy: What is your alternative to Evolution Theory? Would you please share with us?
Turkey always comes up in Nature news by negative connotations and not by the contributions of its citizens to science. In view some Turkish citizens' defiance of science in these pages should not this be considered quite normal?
Oh how primitive! Censorship of Darwin & Dawkins but Adnan Oktar is praised yet he was sentenced to 3 years jail for creating an illegal site for personal gain! Wake up, do you really think Darwin and Dawkins simply made it all up? Why would they do such a thing? To call them liars is like the child who has no answer but does not like the fact/truth of the matter. Reminds me of the stuff about UFO's and crop circles - closed minds who still want to believe and not allow the facts to spoil a good story!
Well, this not surprising. The board of directors in TUBITAK was assigned by a goverment that tries to censor news coverage of press in Turkey. Moreover, this not about whether Darwin was right or wrong. This is about freedom in science and education. Freedom of speech and intellectual freedom are two important components of science, which were clearly not recognized by Nukhet Yetis and other members of the board of directors. I condemn their act of censorship and discrimination. Never forget, ideas are bulletproof.!
The problem is not explicitly explained in this article. What scientists are protesting now in Turkey is not related with rejection of an article by a scientific committee, but the front cover of the magazine which says "Darwin is 200 years old" was censured and changed to something related with "global climate change." Moreover, the editor of the magazine was dismissed. And from some of the comments here it can be deduced how militant are anti-Darwinists in Turkey and directly controlled and funded by a fundamentalist religious sect, namely Adnan Oktar's "tarikat." In the comments here people unbelievably say that "not believing Darwin (sic.)[...]is the most right thing to do" or "in fact everybody in our country knows factually, based on evidence, that - evolution theory is a lie" or "As everybody knows, Richard Dawkins does not accept to debate with Adnan Oktar" or "we don't believe evolution theory in Turkey." These comments show not only the militancy of this very same group, but also the power of the campaign against evolution, and scientific method which definitely lacks in the anti-evolutionist comments here. Being from Turkey, I should say that I am not a part of this "everbody." Additionally, this is not the only incident proving anti-evolutionist campaign. TÜB?TAK, the scientific council, which had published some books on Darwin's theory of evolution once upon a time, has insistently not published new editions of these books so far which are out of print now. The outrageous ban on Prof. Dawkins' website became infamous all over the world. Hence, to put it delicately I may say that neither rejection of an article nor an individual incident is being protested in Turkey by the majority of the scientists. What is being protested now is a systematic campaign against science and scientific thought including the autonomy of the universities and scientific agencies.
@Mert Sansoy: I am a scientist and I believe in evolution... How is that possible... And you thought being a scientist and believing in evolution was mutually exclusive.
What a pity for those who refer evolution as a huge lie since their perception has not evolved at same rate of their ability to do demagogy. May I ask people who mention evolution does not have scientific explaination whether they know anything about genomics, proteomics, molecular evolution, systems biology or evolutionary biology? Data is there! Scientists are interpreting the data and conclusion is that nothing refutes the concept of evolution yet! Darwin is 200 years old now and his theory is 150.Of course his theory has founded the science of evolution but it is 2009 and we have a greater understanding of evolution, especially with the insights gained in post-genomics era. Now, is it possible to say F=ma is a huge lie, since we have a new equation E=mc2. Each equation provided important insights during their era and helped development of physical sciences. In our case, If "Origin of Species" is F=ma, then "Human Genome Project" is E=mc2. We know that now, evolutionary process have distinct properties other than Darwin's vision but this doesn't mean that Darwin is a liar, that means that the technology and sceintific knowledge was not enough for Darwin to develop a better vision. If you people have a better theory that uses scientific data but not dogmatic visions, then you are welcome to publish it in Nature and we will be happy to read it! Greetings from Turkey, Semir.
I am Turkish academic in the USA. I was depressed by these news. I just wanted to add my voice to say there are those of us in Turkey who are outraged by this. I know many people will say America is no better in terms of people not believing evolution. Maybe... But the US certainly does better in terms of freedom of speech. In Turkey currently access to Richard Dawkins' website is banned.... This is certainly not the Turkey Ataturk had envisioned... But worse, it's not even the Turkey I grew up in, or even the Turkey of my parents' generation... I had a very good education, and grew up in a secular environment which contributed to me becoming the successful (female STEM) scientist I am today. This shift in Turkey is a real shame...
Darwin's hypothesis that all extant life forms are descendants of a last common ancestor cell and diversification of life forms results from gradual mutation plus natural selection represents a mainstream view that has influenced biology and even society for over a century. However, this Darwinian view on life is contradicted by many observations and lacks a plausible physico-chemical explanation. Strong evidence suggests that the common ancestor cell hypothesis is the most fundamental flaw of Darwinism. By contrast, a totally different perspective on origin and evolution of life claims that cellular life forms were descendants of already diversified acellular life forms. Independently originated life forms evolve largely in some parallel ways even though they also interact with each other. Some evolutionary "gaps" naturally exist among evolutionary lines. Similarity may not be the only result of phylogenetic inheritance but may be a result of a convergent mechanism of origin and evolution. Evolution is not a random process but follows some basic physico-chemical principles as a result of the interplay of both energy and entropy on matter. [Full-length paper can be read as HTM (http://im1.biz/albums/userpics/10001/P2008V3N1A4_Evolution.htm ) or PDF (http://im1.biz/albums/userpics/10001/P2008V3N1A4_Evolution.pdf )]
I can only hope and pray (yes I am kidding) that most of the posts above are some kind of joke. For any rational thinking, breating, homo sapien to reject Darwin is preposterous. For any human to think he/she/it could possibly "understand" the millions of years that go into some forms of evolution and critisize it is really laughable. There are HUNDREDS of examples of ALL species (including MAN)undergoing evolution it really isn't challengable. The fact that we have survived plages and other major desieses is PROOF!! Go back to church and pray that your GOD will help you to become a little more enlightened.
In our country, Turkey, people don't want to investigate sufficiently about any scientific topic. If you want, then someone will impede in anyway. Because science is not deserved any interest that it has to be. I'm studying at Molecular Biology and Genetics. Some scientists in Turkey are really good at their works. They are already well-known all over the world. About the reality of evolution, lots of Turkish scientists have investigated about it by means of multidiciplinary studies such as Molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, geology, ecology, comperative anatomy and so on. Molecular biology obviously shows that evolution has occured and it is going on. Genetics is also very important discipline that supports the evolution. I hope that people should research this topic via multidisciplinary studying. Everyone should improve their knowledge. People should ever avoid about their old-stereotyped wrong knowledge. Please, science doesn't deserve it. Science should be projected the required interest!!! In Turkey, EVOLUTION is not known exactly, thus, people could say something is full of mistakes. If evolution is taught appropriately, the world will have no doubt about evolution as it must be. People then will be aware of the Reality of Evolution!
Honestly, all creationist claims above - Turkish or otherwise - had been adressed already, many times. My time is too precious to debunk the "broken record" tactic practiced by them, but here: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/index.html My private thought is, however, if you have any problem with God and evolution existing at the same time, either your faith, your brain or both are really weak, dudes.
Please disregard the comments above opposing evolution theory. They were all clearly written by the same person, probably a fanatic follower of the radically religious and mentally unstable person Adnan Oktar, who surprisingly has financial support from many powerful people in Turkey( That was how he printed the fully colored "Atlas of Creation" which is full of lies and fabricated "fossil" photographs and sent it to hundreds of academics in the USA) Also I'd like to point out that "we Turkish people" aren't only composed of religious fanatics who simply disregard science and live in a world of lies. The issue here is simply that censorship against a well-extablished scientific theory in a national magazine is simply unacceptable. Tha AKP government corrupted and put their own men in many universities, schools etc. Tübitak and Bilim Teknik are the latest victims.
A lot of people claiming no evidence is there for gradual evolution. You don't have to see "half developed noses" to support evolution. Look at the genomes: Why does every organism known so far uses the same genetic code? Why can we trace the divergence of species based on molecular biology? Science has proven there are beneficial mutations or transference of genetic material between species so these can gain new functions. Evolution is there, you just have to look deeper.
Reading back some of these comments, which were obviously written by some "religiously" motivated people, as a Turkish person I feel discomfort and shame. The reason for my shame is NOT because these people bear these ideas and NOT because they write it here. They should be able to express themselves freely no matter what they think. The reason for my shame and discomfort is that they actually take the liberty to talk in my name and in the name of 75 million other Turkish citizens. Please, talk for yourself and only for yourself. Do NEVER think that just because we were born in the same geographical location, I would have any common point with you. If I can accept that you believe in something and take the responsibility to respect this, then you should accept that there might some people with different beliefs, ideas and concerns than you! I am a Turkish citizen! And I find this censorship outrageous and unacceptable. I am deeply saddened by this incidence.
I am a biology graduate student in Turkey. I believe in evolution as much as I believe in science. And, this is just a POLITICAL decision, in my view. I hope, our scientific council will be a more scientific place in the future. Regards
A religion or government banning positions in conflict with their views, shows that the government or religion has no confidence (faith) in their own position. If they had true confidence (faith) in their own position, they would allow all positions to be freely expressed in the confidence that their position would stand strongest on the weight of evidence. To my way of seeing it, this action actually shows that those behind this action have no confidence (faith) in their own religion.
Oh what nonsense about Darwinian "dictatorship" etc. What some people don't seem to be able to comprehend is that science is not about coming up with the "right" or "wrong" answer. It's about using the right METHODS to come up with answers. A scientist looks at a problem with his/her own eyes, gathers data and tries to find the best explanation for the data at hand. A scientist does NOT presume that some verses in some holy book is true, verbatim, and then goes about trying to discredit what is universally accepted as the most sensible explanation of the data at hand. Science has never been, and most likely will never be "complete" in the sense that there will always be things we don't know, or know less than we'd like to. That doesn't make it wrong. Conversely not every "complete theory" such as "Because God created it that way," is worthy of being taken seriously. We need to make a choice: Are we to believe in our own eyes and senses, are we to think with our own brains to come up with answers, or are we to have complete faith in someone's word with no justification whatsoever. My choice is the former.
dear mert, what is science and who is a scientist? please do not answer the question but try to find the answer for yourself
I recommend every one to read Dawkins's "Blind Watchmaker" to learn something about what is evolution and what is not, and for those whom who sees the precision and accuracy in the entire universe, I bet you see this behind glasses, and I have so perfect eyes with colourblindness... If you dont like and think that evolution is not true, you can always claim a new SCIENTIFIC idea. (please do not turn to me with word including harun,yahya,adnan,oktar that is why i wrote scientiic in capitals)
Wow. Black is white, censorship is liberation and mountains of evidence is none at all (look up therapsids if you dare). It seems to me that it's time for all of us to pull our collective heads out of the sand on this one.
There is not one evidence supporting evolution! The fossil record shows that species don't change, and not one transitional fossil exists! Go to www.harunyahya.com and learn some biology! (Alternatively you could use the Qur'an or Bible or something like that, but make sure you don't look at a biology textbook! All those biology texts and journals, all the research and evidence provided thereby, all of the therapies and drugs that arose from this research, these are all lies!!!) It's a Darwinist conspiracy don't you get it? I would fly to to Turkey and educate people about the one and only absolute TRUTH, but if god really wanted me to fly he would have given me wings... I could take a ship but then there is the risk of falling off from the edge of the world. But I won't be silenced! I will keep on running around, teaching people biology according to God! (Theological biology; doesn't sound bad at all actually). Long live creation science!
I am a Turkish citizen too. But unlike some of the previous posters, I believe in science, rationalism, and secularism, and not dogma. Unfortunately, these creationist posters represent almost 60% of the Turkish people. A large portion of these people are either plain ignorant or indoctrinated, and a few of them are wilingly ignorant, like the ones you see here. In the last 7 years, they managed to capture the government and the legislative bodies. And in the last few years, they finally managed to capture the leading scientific organization Tübitak. They know that the truth and science would eventually prevail if they allow freedom of speech, so the only weapon they have is censorship. And that's what they're doing. They banned RichardDawkins.net, Youtube, as well as thousands of other sites. You see what we have to cope with as rational Turkish citizens, but we will not go down without a fight. Wish us luck.
I am deeply grieved to have read some of the comments from my compatriots. How can anyone be so bold to announce their ideas as the ideas of a whole nation? Some claimed that people in Turkey did not believe in evolution (and others added that was because they were intelligent) and another claimed that scientists did not believe in evolution. Well, here is the proof of their wrongs: A Turkish scientist that heartily believes in evolution. If we do not believe in evolution, who were the people staging demonstrations in front of TUBITAK? Greeks? Armenians? Kurds maybe? And about the claims about the transitional fossils and irreducible complexity. Just do a wikipedia search and you will find out that those claims are unfounded. About Adnan Oktar and Harun Yahya (who happen to be the same person), do they have an article published in any reputable scientific journal (not those pamphlet that they print, some A class journal I mean)? Are they even scientists? And if they want to see Dawkins so badly, why don't they attend one of his presentations in one of the reputable conferences that Mr. Dawkins attends?
I am appalled by the large number of people who are so *sure* that Darwin was wrong (and even lying) when postulating his theory. Apart from the question how anybody who regularly visits this site here can still claim that there is *no* evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of evolution (ever read one of the articles covering topics such as molecular biology and genetics?), a theory is a *foundation* upon which scientific discourse is based. Thus, to say that a theory is *wrong* and therefore should have no place in rational / scientific thinking is a contradiction in itself. A theory can only be falsified, and this only happens when unrefutable evidence is found that contradicts its postulates. As long as this has not happened, the theory has still considered to be *valid*. This is very similar to jurisdiction, where a defendant is to be considered innocent until his guilt is proven (as we do not want to condemn the innocent, do we?). On the other hand, I would like all the oponents of the theory of evolution to state their alternative. WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE SCIENTIFIC THEORY REGARDING THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES? Let us hear about it and let's discuss its merits and weaknesses in the light of available and missing evidence. If you are of the opinion that this is a question that science (for whatever reasons) is not able to or supposed to answer, then this is the point where you have left the path of scientific / deductive / rational thinking. This is when you invoke the metaphysical and where you will give priority to philosophical, esoterical or (I assume this concerns most people posting on this topic) religious beliefs. I personally cannot understand how some people can draw that line, deciding (a priori, all by themselves, maybe due to a personal disliking or maybe because someone told them) when or at what topic to stop rational thinking and switch to an *unquestioning*, religous belief or attitude. However, as this is a forum for discussing scientific topics in a rational manner, I would like the people posting here to adhere to that principle and refrain from voicing opinions or personal beliefs.
Either Adnan Oktar has many pseudonyms(not only Harun Yahya but also Mert Sansoy, Mert Dülger, Selma Demir, Tan Celebigil and many others) or he sent his army to write comments on Nature. Well, probably the second one, as Oktar also knows that his well(!) educated people can speak English, unlike somebody... Whatever, I completely agree with Celebigil in his first sentence, we shouldn't believe in theories which do not have proof; but, Mr. Celebigil, that's the only thing I could agree with you, as Darwin's Theory has solid proofs, whereas, the theory you believe in has unfortunately no proofs! (However, that's also no problem, because in order to believe, you need no proof.) In conclusion, if you believe in Darwin's Theory, nobody can question it as it is a belief. If you accept(or reject) the theory, then you clearly see the scientific evidences and what science is! Furthermore, I would like to see the sign up date of all these people, I have some doubts all might have very soon sign up dates...
What some of the contributors in this forum seem to be missing is that science is not about "correct" results, it's about correct methods. That is, we believe that if we use the correct methods, we'll find out what the truth is, and accept it whether or not we "like" the outcome. Darwin used the correct method: Observation and reasoning. Proponents of holistic "theories" such as creation, intelligent design etc, already have the answer: "Because God wanted it that way." All they now need to do is go about trying to find evidence to uphold their belief, and discredit the results found by careful observation and reasoning. This is not science by even weakest meaning of the word, and an insult to human intelligence.
I see how the scope of ignorance comes up while reading the postings from Turkish readers. one says" we don't believe in Evolution in Turkey" and yet the other says "Turkish people are [so]intelligent [not to believe in Evolution]"..etc. I can't work out how censoring an issue is associated with whether it is tru al false. without discussing it how can one comes with idea whether it is true or not? what TUBITAK has done is contrary of the very principle of science. but Oktar's fan looks to have not tired take every chance to turn the issue into propaganda against Darwin's theory of evolution.Ahmet Secer, please read Dawkin's message to Mr Oktar in his site if you are lucky to open Richar's site (in Turkey banned). Mr Oktar first should get enough education to discern between sea snakes and eels...
Just to provide a counterpoint, I disagree with blanket claims such as "we disagree with the theory of evolution in Turkey" and so on. Turkey is a very diverse society with a variety of beliefs and viewpoints. The current government politicizes all aspects of civil life, pushing their view-point informed by some variant of mild political Islam on every front. The very fact that a public outcry from scientists erupted as a reaction to government censorship shows that debate is not fully stifled -- like it is in under some authoritarian regimes elsewhere. Currently we suffer under an anti-science and arrogant government, much like Americans did under Bush.
Ahmet Secer, Melis Tanocak, Selma Demir Who are you to speak FOR Turkish people? You are a group of miserable people inveigled by an idiot who wrote a book of creationism. We know that SCIENCE will prevail at last. Please sit and read your holy book. Don't put your nose into scientists' business.
Dear folk, If the debate related to Bilim Teknik was really about the evaluation of Darwin's theory, I would have been very happy, because I would have thought that at least people were discussing about a great theory. First of all, it is better to keep our focus on the correct point. This event (censorship) reflects the support of the idea claiming that a religion or a political view should correct the science! What is more harmful for scientific thought? All in all, the correctness of a theory can not be proved not only through the internet forums. Rather, It needs comparisons of well written articles about the theory also. Please don't harm science and Turkish scientists!
Darwins ideas were written down in a book which also contained his own doubts. The ideas were arrived at after observations of creatures in the real world and some much related thinking thereafter. Others observations from many sources fossils to the DNA of creatures alive today, have been placed alongside these ideas and none found to demonstrate that evolution is unable to offer a reasonable explanation of the observations. That is science. If someone has a rational objection based on an observation which causes a problem for evolution, they have a responsibility to write it up accurately and publish it. That is science. Many examples of evidence for evolutionary changes which can be observed are given in a wide number of books, for example "In the Blink of an Eye: How Vision Kick-started the Big Bang of Evolution" You can reinterpret the same items yourself, and it is important that everyone does think about these things for themselves, but we cannot simply pretend these fossils don't exist. Nor can we pretend that changes seen between generations of creatures today are not relevant input for testing the evolution idea, which continues to offer itself up for testing as all scientific ideas do. Many objections to evolution come from so-called "creationists" who believe that certain interpretations of sacred texts automatically exclude the ideas in evolution. Surely it is necessary to interpret not just the texts but all works authored by the Creator (ie nature, creatures around us) and are we then not duty bound as thinking creatures to search for way to "read" them all which is without contradiction. The Roman Catholic Church has looked and continues to look at these matters and finds no contraction between the different "writings" of the God of Abraham. One final point, to check a fossil record of 300 million years, for a so-called organic chain of continuous development would require laying out kilometres worth of fossils even if creatures in each generation were living for 100 years at a time and if you only found 1 fossil in every 100 generations and if each fossil were placed 1 m apart, you would have to do the same for every other branch of the evolutionary tree. Is it really necessary to lay out all those bones just before someone will start using their own mind?
May I ask people who mention evolution does not have scientific explaination whether they know anything about genomics, proteomics, molecular evolution, systems biology or evolutionary biology? Data is there! Scientists are interpreting the data and conclusion is that nothing refutes the concept of evolution yet. Darwin is 200 years old now and his theory is 150.Of course his theory has founded the science of evolution but it is 2009 and we have a greater understanding of evolution, especially with the insights gained in post-genomics era. Now, is it possible to say F=ma is a huge lie, since we have a new equation E=mc2. Each equation provided important insights during their era and helped development of physical sciences. In our case, If "Origin of Species" is F=ma, then "Human Genome Project" is E=mc2. We know that now, evolutionary process have distinct properties other than Darwin's vision but this doesn't mean that Darwin is a liar, that means that the technology and sceintific knowledge was not enough for Darwin to develop a better vision.
I hate when people do comments starting with "we". For instance, "We don't believe evolution theory in Turkey.". Maybe those conservative people do not believe in it, but there are lots of modern and intelligent people who believe both in god and evolution theory, which I found the most rational way to think. People across the world, please do not judge Turkish people according to these conservative people. There are millions of Turkish people just like me who believe in this theory. I am totally against this censorship. I am also against every censorship here back in our country. Due to our conservative government we suffer such prejudice from all over the world. This is a dark period for Turker and it will "hopefully" pass before something worst happens.
I am a Turkish scientist at UCSF. I am not sure, if the article or the comments sadden me more. Turkey is undergoing a long-running transition from the educated, thought based process, towards the brain-washed, belief based process. Notice, how many of these comments state that "we don't believe in Darwin in Turkey". There are two things wrong with this statement. First, it is not scientific to speak for an entire country without anything to back it up. Secondly, and more importantly, scientific process is not a matter of belief, but a constant process of observation, hypothesis and testing, which further develops a hypothesis. Unfortunately, many in Turkey, and elsewhere around the world, are not thought about science, much less the scientific process. If they had any significant science education, they wouldn't buy into arguments like there are no half-noses. But, it takes some scientific knowledge to see how ridiculous this argument sounds. I am very sorry about the government's oppression of science and freedom of speech in Turkey, which, of course, further results in more uninformed, undereducated people in turn, who would fill these gaps with stories from people like Harun Yahya (aka Adnan Oktar). It is a downward spiral and is very saddening.
It is disappointing to read the disingenuous thought process used to defend the censorship, especially in the comments section. Tan Celebigil asks for proof of half developed lungs or ribosomes as if this was some prerequisite for an evolutionary process. And then we're asked the nonsensical question to not breathe for a few minutes to show that we will die. The irony is that this supposed proof the commentator forwards to explain the censorship of science not only depends on the scientific process (he's basically asking us to do an experiment), but simultaneously shows the commentator's ignorance of science in general (you won't die if you hold your breath). As a Turkish citizen working abroad, it is difficult to read these comments without incrementally losing faith in your fellow (country)men.
Most of the commentators commented about "evolution" from a religios perspective but trying to blur minds as they know anything about science or evolution. No, you dont know facts. You dont know biology, either. A guy named Harun Yahya, a muslim version of evangelists of USA -they are financially related- make scientifically absurd comments about evolution, and as you are religious or you're a sectarian, you make these nonsense comments. What do you offer against Evolution? Nothing but Creation. This is not a scientific debate, this is "science of religion?" debate... "Intelligent Design" or "Creation" can not be a scientific theory, because it does not answer any questions at all and main cause of defending it against evolution is having a religious point of view. Sciense is not interested in Gods, science is interested in nature, how stuffs work, in short science is having a "naturalistic world of view". So any god has no place in any scientific theory. If you wanna believe in a super hero, believe it. But dont try to fool us and dont try to decide what my child will learn at school.
Dear Anti-Darwinist writers, please read a little before getting ugly and please don't make generalizations such as "We don't believe evolution theory in Turkey". Science is not the play area of beliefs. What Darwin suggestested was his "THEORY". He didn't say a verse from god came or one night he had a dream of evolution. He just spend years working on the subject and created a theory which very hardly has been welcomed in the science society he was a part of. What happened in TUBITAK is not a question of what is wrong or right, the question is "Are TUBITAK and the magazine still objective, colorless science models or not?" You may believe in creation theory but this shouldn't give you the right to ignore evolution theory.
I would just like to say it is a disgrace for TUBITAK and my country to be censoring scientific debate because it gets into issues to do with religion, which this incident exemplifies. I strongly disapprove of those who commented like 'we know Darwin is wrong'. There are many people raised in Turkey who are deeply concerned about the Islamist turn our society has taken. Please support those institutions, ie NGOs, professional and scientific associations, etc. in Turkey who are battling such dogmatic and politically motivated behavior.
First of all, not all the biologists deny the evolution theory in Turkey. It is neither democratic nor fair to make comments in behalf of other people. Theory of evolution to biology is equivalent to the law of gravity to physics. If you do not have a scientific theory to explain how life begun and developed, this means you are not dealing with science. Assuming that some unexplainable hand put all the living species on the planet is similar to try to convince the people that some winged angels take things to ground when we let them go. Theory might be incomplete, which I will also agree; however, it has a very solid support, which is DNA itself. Fossil records are secondary evidences of evolution. Currently, evolution is almost always examined through the changes in DNA sequence. I hope science will dominate in Turkey in near future.
A disbelief in Darwin's Theory of Evolution is not a matter of the Turkish people or the muslim society. There are by far too many people in western countries (including many scientists!!)who do not believe in evolution. In fact, this trend originates from the west. The last version of these people are those who believe in 'intelligent design'. Evolution is a scientific fact and not a proposal anymore.However, it seems unlikely that it all happened just by chance..it appears that living organisms have very clever molecular mechanisms (also developed through evolution)that help them to adapt to adverse conditions. So, it is almost all a matter of Adaptation under Stress. However, as scientists, we still need to discover a lot more than what we know today, to find out 'how evolution has happened'. I think this is the only critical question ahead of us...and not to discuss if evolution has happened or not! As a Turkish citizen and scientist, I regret what has happened, not because it happened in Turkey, but because it happened in one of the most respected popular scientific journals of Turkey..
Speaking of censorship-- Why are only 19 of 98 comments viewable on this topic. Who is doing the censoring?
@Mike Galloway: Apologies for the holdup in moderating comments, caused by technical problems.
I'm tottlly agree with Osman Tansel. Well, people have to think, and also have to read and RESEARCH! before saying something especially something about science. I think Turkish people have to learn to respect. And to not be afraid of science!!
@Ahmet, 11 Mar, 2009 Science is not belief but thorough construction of a huge corpus of knowledge testable and able to make predictions. Françoise Ibarrondo, France
Someone asked who I am to speak for the Turkish people. Well? I am one of the millions of Turks who believe in Creation, and merely laugh at the theory of evolution. Have you ever spoken to people other than a handful of your own kind? You have to admit that less and less people are taking evolution seriously, not only in Turkey but in the whole world.
The ones who defend Darwinism, why can't we see any evidences in this thread? And a note: 95 percent of Turkish people do not believe in evolution. They believe that God created everything. The Turkish citizens who defend Darwinism here, represent only the 5% of our 70 million population ! It's been very long since Darwinist dogma has left the Turkish soil, thanks to wisdom of Turkish nation.
Even Darwin had admitted that he had speculated about evolution: "I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." (N.C. Gillespie, Charles Darwin and the Problem of Creation, University of Chicago, 1979, p. 2.)
I am also a Turkish scientist working in USA. There are quite a few comments, so I am not sure if anybody has pointed out to the statement made by TUBITAK, the organization accused of sensorship. A link comes up at the home page, and the date on it is 12.03.2009. Here is the link for those who can read Turkish: http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/home.do;jsessionid=81BCE1FAC34DCDE5F82E9C613731B1E6?ot=5&rt=&sid=0&pid=0&cid=13654 I will summarize a few points from that statement here: 1-The Editor made significant changes to the version of the Journal that was previously agreed upon for publishing. These changes include 16 additional pages (each issue of the journal is typically 90-100 pages) that were not peer reviewed, and changing the cover from the previously accepted cover of global warming to a cover on evolution. They also mention that the editor herself is not an expert in the field of evolution. I did a search on PubMed and nothing came up on her name. In Google I found an article by her: ?Anatolia and archaeology in the early years of the Turkish Republic (1923?1938) ? published in Journal of Social Archaeology (Vol. 8, No. 2, 214-235 (2008)). So she might be an expert in history, sociology, or archaeology but probably not in evolution. 2-They further state that books on Darwin and evolution have been featured on that issue (about 2 pages were dedicated for books on evolution). 3-They mention just a few months ago, when essentially the same people were in charge, TUBITAK translated into Turkish and published a book of Ernst Mayer (?This is Biology?). I know that they have also translated into Turkish and published various books on evolution and Darwin in the past, including ?Ever Since Darwin? by Stephen Jay Gould (http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/home.do?ot=5&rt=3&sid=0&cid=1524) and ?Charles Darwin - And the Evolution Revolution? by Rebecca Stefoff (http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/home.do?sid=537&cid=990). 4- Finally, they mention that an issue will be dedicated to Darwin and evolution within 2009. I hope this puts things in better perspective.
The unclear point is that, why AKP permitted such a censor as a (actually so-called) liberal party. So, Adnan Oktar effect is clear on the TÜB?TAK, since AKP and Oktar have a common point of view on evolution.
Darwinism is falsified by 100 million fossils which appear abruptly, complete and in perfect forms. Transitional fossils the must of evolutoion do not exist. This fact was also admitted by Darwin himself: "Why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them,well defined?? But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?? Why do we not now find closely-linking intermediate varieties? This difficulty for a long time quite confounded me." Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, The Modern Library, New York, p. 124-125. As Darwin stated there arent any transitional forms. Darwininsm is not science. darwinism is a pagan religion based on coincidences defended against science.
There was a darwinism conference in Rome last week. Dr. Babuna a representative of harun Yahya asked a simple question to 2 of well known evolutionists Francisco Ayala and Douglas Futuyma. Can you show me any transitional forms. His microphone was taken away from Babuna and Futuyma flees. You can watch the film in Reuters or Asociated press. http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/04/anti-darwin-speaker-gagged-at-vatican-evolution-conference/ That is a shame. Darwinists couldnt answer the most fundamental question and censured Babuna.
Dear my collegues studying in Turkey, I am a young scientist studying in Turkey. EVOLUTION is true. You will see that evolution in an article near soon maybe in NATURE. Censoring won't be able to make us stop thinking. There is a Quote of DA VINCI: There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see AHMET TURP
This news is clear evidence that evolution is out of our lives. There is no such thing, come on... do you still think that you came from ape? Its evident that we were created. There are millions of fossils proving this. And not only fossils in fact there is nothing which can prove evolution. I'm shocked how can a religious person claim that he believe in evolution. Tell me then: Did angels appear by evolution too? Did genie or demons, whose existence is told in the holy scriptures, came by chance? I DON'T THINK SO !
I too am one of the many Turkish scientists studying evolutionary biology. Let me tell you: I have met more people in Turkey who believe in evolution than I have who do not. And this doesn't even include the academic circle. Unfortunately the journal mentioned in this article is published by a government agency and is therefore not a neutral voice. The interesting thing is that Turkey is now starting to live its share of the evolution-creationism debate because of western-influenced evolution-creationism debates being brought into the country by religious zealots. This did not seem to be the case 15 years ago. The science arm of the government (and hence the journal "Bilim ve Teknik") should have been one of the strong voices in science, especially in an example like this.
Mert Sansoy: "Scientists; we have been under the indoctrination of Darwinist thinking for the last 150 years. We were given no other alternatives, all text books and exams questioned us on the so-called validity of evolution theory. We were turned into non-questioning, non-challenging individuals, and this was the main objective of the Darwinist dictatorship really." Well, hopefully not all scientists. As a mainstream faculty member working on epigenetics, an inseparable part of heredity, I know for a fact the the existing theories are incomplete since they completely ignore epigenetics/development. I have now come up with a complete theory that fully grants the proven virtues of the existing theory in the domain of microevolution. The theory is called the maximum genetic diversity (MGD) hypothesis. (a preprint here, Huang, S. submitted "Inverse relationship between genetic diversity and epigenetic complexity" http://precedings.nature.com/documents/1751/version/2) The existing theories of evolution (NeoDarwinism plus the neutral theory) are incomplete because they fail to take into account the intuitively obvious axiom of an inverse relationship between genetic diversity/mutation and epigenetic/organismal complexity. Macroevolution from simple to complex organisms involves a suppression of random point mutations. It is not at all merely an accumulation of mutations, as is assumed by the existing theories. see the latest Science paper on this point :http://blogs.sciencemag.org/origins/2009/03/fast-mutating-viroids-hold-clu.html Until we have a theory that can explain all the relevant facts, we don't have a complete theory. Unlike the existing theories, the new MGD hypothesis is a self-evident axiom, explains all relevant facts of evolution, and has yet to meet a factual contradiction.
TUBITAK has made an announcement that the original subject for the magazine cover was the one published and Ms Atakuman has changed it but she had the authority to do so..But now the lady makes an opposite claim that puts TUBITAK in the middle of a long lasting debate.However making Darwin the cover page or not should not be a matter of discussion at all.Tubitak is free to do as it chooses as a democratic institution. However, the media (Milliyet,Hurriyet,Radikal) which makes this debate "big news" belongs to the Dogan Group of companies. Dogan has recently bought a fuel oil company called POAS. And Tubitak recently brought out a POAS fuel oil scandal that the company was avoiding tax by using a different type of oil. So Dohan has problems with TUBITAK In addition to that, Dogan group also has been found guilty of avoiding tax by the Revenue Office and they had to set Star TV and KanalD as a guarantee for debt, which shows that Dogan has problems with the government also. This clearly show that an imaginary censorshi is being communicated by the media, as the media has a different agenda..
Anti-Darwinism is not something specific to Turkey or Islam. It is even more common in the US. I wonder if the anti-Darwinist examples from US or Christianity take their places on Nature news pages.
Since Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen, 965?1039), one of the key figures in developing scientific method, the emphasis on science has been on seeking truth. Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart To limit the press is to insult a nation; to prohibit reading of certain books is to declare the inhabitants to be either fools or slaves. ~Claude-Adrien Helvétius The paper burns, but the words fly away. ~Akiba ben Joseph Good luck to Cenk Kopan and the courageous and the creative in Turkey that have made it a great country and will hopefully keep it that way.
In response to Oktar Babuna's comment on the absence of transitional forms as a counter-evidence to evolution. Please Mr. Babuna, I beg you-as a scientist and as your fellow country man- to at least do minimal research before posting such comments with no scientific basis. The literature is full of such examples and even a 15 year old kid who watched the Jurassic Park movies will recognize the Archeopteryx as a great example of transition from reptiles to birds. Indeed such absurd questions as whether transitional forms exist will provoke any descent scientist like Dr. Futuyma to flee from the scene. I would do the same myself. Greetings to both Drs. Ayala and Futuyma. Umut Sahin/Institut Pasteur-Paris
Ok. I have to confess. It was not God, it was me who designed everything. Of course I can not prove this scientifically but you are free to BELIEVE.. Does it make sense?
My question is to those who don't have any scientific background but again keep saying there's not enough scientific proof to support Evolution, so they don't "believe" in evolution. I can't help but wonder whether that means that creationists believe in creation because there are tons of scientific proof? Please think twice when you say "Darwinism is a dogma" when you keep believing so called "holy" books and "holy" prophets for thousands of years without questioning or looking for a scientific proof.