Courtesy of Ted (Edwin A Scribner = Krenon in the Chat), here's the log of the Known Space Chat that took place on Saturday.

I'm posting it here as I'm sure you will all be interested in Larry's comments (highlighted in bold) (he joined initially as "flatlandr" and then changed his nick to his usual fithp).

Session Start: Sun Apr 07 05:53:23 2002

*** Now talking in #knownspace
<Harry> Vash, I'm watching Gammera -vs- the Sonic Monster. (Glog)
<Vash> wb ted
<Harry> Wb tTed
<Krenon> Hi. I had a connection problem
<Akatsukam> Rehi, Ted.
<Krenon> Back shortly
<Harry> -k- Ted
<Harry> Somebody want to E-Mail Carol (RedFlame)?
<Akatsukam> Done.
*** flatlandr has joined #knownspace
<flatlandr> Hello?
<flatlandr> This space must be big. I can't even hear echoes.

<Krenon> Hi
<Akatsukam> Afternoon, flatlandr.
<Harry> Hi Flatlandr
<Vash> Hello Flatlandr
<flatlandr> Ah, there's one/two. Hi, Justin, Akatsukam, Harry, Vash.
<Harry> Krenon, any ideas for a topic?
<Krenon> Give me a minute.
<Vash> Flatlandr, you are using the default nickname for the java interface, can you change your nick by typing /nick yournewname please
*** flatlandr is now known as fithp
<Harry> -k-
<Harry> FITHP?
<Vash> Oh, hello Larry!!!
<Harry> LARRY!
<Krenon> :-)
<fithp> Hello.
<Krenon> Nice to see you.
<Krenon> I'm hoping to meet you at ConJose.
<Harry> Good to see you Larry.
<Krenon> Looking for Carol: she hasn't got AIM open
<Harry> I sent an E-Mail Kernon.
<Vash> I'm using the laptop downstairs, so I can't check where she is either
<Krenon> If she hasn't got AIM open it probably means she's off line so she may not have seen the email
<Akatsukam> Does she use ICQ?
<Krenon> Personally I'd like to have a bit of a discussion about magic.
<Vash> She uses AIM
<Krenon> No
<Vash> and Mana?
<Krenon> Yes and whatever else goes with magic.
<Vash> chips?
<Krenon> ?
*** Vash is now known as Nesssus
<Nesssus> as in Chips with everything
<Akatsukam> Chips don't go with magic; baked potatoes do :)
<Krenon> Oh. I'm still fighting cholesterol.
*** Redflame has joined #knownspace
<Redflame> Hi Redflame
<Krenon> Hi Carol
<Nesssus> Hi Carol
<Redflame> Hey!
<Harry> Hi Red.
<Redflame> hi!
<Akatsukam> Afternoon, Carol.
<fithp> Hi Carol!
<Redflame> Larry?
<Krenon> Yes
<Redflame> John, I was just about to tell you that I was on my way here.
<fithp> Redflame, it is I. How' s life?
<Akatsukam> We see that now; I guess that there is no need :)
<fithp> New things have been happening. For some time now I've been getting email about "Halo".
<Redflame> Life... well enough. Lanae is going into the hosp Wednesday for yet another new treatment.
<Redflame> From people concerned about whether it is Ringworld?
<Nesssus> Has anyone here got an Xbox yet?
<fithp> Halo is a game on Xbox, with dynamite visuals. The structure that is the game's site looks like a poor man's Ringworld.
<Redflame> Not me. I waste enough time playing on my computer. I see no reason to find a new way to waste time.
<Akatsukam> No Xbox; none wanted.
<fithp> So I get emails suggesting I sue, and I keep saying I can't patent nor copyright a ring.
<Redflame> Poor man's Ringworld... nothing YOU need then!
<Krenon> So, does it violate your copyright, or have they negotiated anything with you?
<Harry> Even a poor copy can yield a good idea or two Red.
<Krenon> But ... BIG rings?
<Nesssus> Someone suggested that the Ring on Halo looks more like one of Brin's orbitals anyway
<fithp> Now I've gotten a suggestion from Del Rey Books: shall I write a novelization of Halo?
<Redflame> LOL!
<Harry> Data like gold is where you find it.
<Nesssus> lol
<fithp> I waffled. I can't jump into a fully programmed universe, I said, and write anything good. It works better if I've been living in that universe.
<Harry> Well, it would connect you to a new audiance.
<Nesssus> I think I saw that novelization suggestion on one of the sci-fi news pages but the report suggested that other authors were being approached
<Harry> And a BIG one, All in one chunk.
<Redflame> I can see where that might go. The pupeteers, having found the Ring world, build a prototype around a moon. As they don't think their imitation skrith is as sstrong as the original, they build only a small
<Akatsukam> Hmmm. I think there might be TOO much interaction between Halo and Ringworld.
<Redflame> fithp, you've played Halo?
<fithp> I'm about to play Halo. They sent me an Xbox and Halo, and some other games too.
<fithp> Steve Saffel's suggestion.

<Redflame> They.... the creators of Halo? Del Rey?
<Krenon> Ah. That answers my question. So an Xbox is a game station
<Nesssus> the privileges of being a big time author......<g> FREEBIES!
<Krenon> Methinks there's a lot of work that comes before the freebies
<Nesssus> Xbox is a game console by micro$oft
<fithp> This might work for them. I did sequels to the 1001 Nights and the Berserkers, and rewrote the Green Lantern universe, because I was already living there in my head.
<fithp> They who sent me the stuff are Microsoft.
<Redflame> Ah.
<Harry> Fithip? Peg sends a HUG.
<fithp> Hug to Peggy, and health to you both.
<Redflame> Stawberries are in season. The best I have tasted since the lasttime I was in California. I wonder if the grower in CA accidently let go some of the berries they keep for the CA natives.
<Krenon> They keep the best for the CA natives?
<fithp> There's a Strawberry Festival, annual, near us. I've missed a couple of years, but may make this one.
<Krenon> I need to know what to eat when I get there in August
<Redflame> That is MY personal opinion abotu why berries in CA taste betterthan berries in TX and OK. I never liked them much, until I had some in CA! The festival is soon?
<fithp> I'm not aware that CA is sending you outofstaters second rank strawberries. Conspiracy theory!
<Harry> Why not Larry? The top grade California Avacados are all sent to New York!
<Krenon> We do a reasonable strawberry in New South Wales, Australia
<Nesssus> We get English strawberries in June/July, but any other time of the year they mostly come from Spain.
<Krenon> Not a bad avocado too
<Nesssus> The spanish ones are usually bigger, but only have half the taste
<fithp> May 18 and 19 is the Strawberry Festival.
<Redflame> Maybe they are just picked too soon, to spend four weeks sitting in the dark to slowly ripen while being transported.
<Akatsukam> Aha! I'll tell wagimoko to buy the next avocadoes in NY, then.
<Harry> 9*** L*O*V*E*S AVACADOS ***
<Krenon> I don't blame you
<Nesssus> Avacados have a strange soapy taste. Did you know that they are the fruit with the most calories? Even more than sweet lushious strawberries.
<Krenon> Strawberries are very low in calorific value
<Krenon> As you say, avocadoes are high
<Nesssus> Yes, I think Lemons have more calories
<fithp> try avocados with bay shrimp.
<Redflame> Dried strawberries are to DIE for!
<Krenon> Bay shrimp?
<Nesssus> Yes, I've had avocados and crabsticks
<Redflame> Bay shrimp, are they large? Boiled?
<Nesssus> somehow fish and avocado works!
<Krenon> They do indeed.
<Harry> The breed of the avacado has much to do with the taste. The HASS variety is oily and somewhat soapy in taste.
<Krenon> I don't find them soapy. We have Hass avocadoes
<Krenon> I'm fairly eclectic in tastes
<Redflame> I don't find them soapy either. Maybe they mean.... slimey, slick.
<Nesssus> I have Tesco's avocados<g>
<Harry> Bay shrimp are tiney and usually boiled. Try mashing an avacado adding a touch of garlic and onion powder and some ground Cumin and mixing Bay Shrimp into that. Delicious!
<Redflame> Next con in Houston: June 14 - 16, ConSortium. GoH Timothy Zahn. Anybody planning on coming? :-)
<Krenon> The Americans might not understand that
<Krenon> Are there any Tesco's in the US?
<Akatsukam> Bland and buttery, I'd say. Perhaps a difference in perception?
<Harry> What's a Tesco?
<Nesssus> A Supermarket
<Krenon> A big supermarket chain in the UK
<Redflame> Hmm. With Cumin? Just have some.... I made some WONDERFUL Chili recently, with Cumin, and.... chocolate!
<Krenon> Over 300 stores as I've heard.
<Harry> Ah. Nope we have (UGH) Safeway instead.
<Krenon> They also have Safeway
<Redflame> Safeway all closed. Kroger's seems to have taken over. Now, Albertsons are leaving too.
<Harry> Safeway took oer KROGER here... Except for WAL-MART, who still sells Kroger brand goods.
<Harry> I don't like that trend. One store means that your choices get limited very quickly.
<Nesssus> Never heard of Kroger
<Harry> So far, Kroger brand has been pretty good quality at a reduiced price.
<Nesssus> I think Walmart also own Asda, another large supermarket chain over here (uk)
<Harry> Fithp? What do you think of the Chinese claim that they are ready to orbit a man and want to put up a Space Station?
<Redflame> When my other lost my single cup coffee filter, I looked in ever coffee specialty store in New Orleans, and a dozen different chains and specialty stores in Houston, and FINALLY found them at Albertsons. I've tried to be faithful since then, but now, they are LEAVING me!
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<Redflame> Hi Andy_L
<Nesssus> Fithp, any news on Ringworld's Child?
<Akatsukam> Afternoon, Andy_L.
<Nesssus> Hello Andy
<Andy_L> Hi Carol. Glad to be here after so many missed chats.
<Krenon> Hi Andy
<Harry> Hi Andy.
<Andy_L> What's today's hot topic?
<Akatsukam> The usual :)
<Krenon> I suggested magic but so far it hasn't happened
<Redflame> ANyone catch the new Draco Tavern story in REDSHIFT?
<Krenon> What's Redshift?
<Redflame> Andy, you can plug your wife's upcoming book!
<fithp> I have nothing to tell you re Ringworld's Child, as I'm working on two other novels.
<Andy_L> Magic? Plenty to talk about there.
<Akatsukam> OK, magic and mana. About them?
<Redflame> "Extreme Visions of Speculative Fiction" ed by Sarrantonio
<Krenon> I was thinking about Sauron's Ring, and whether it had anything equivalent to mana in it.
<Andy_L> Redshift is sort of "Dangerous visions" for the new millenium
<Redflame> fithp, re RWC, do you even know how many children are involved?
<Andy_L> Hmmm. Sauron certainly poured a lot of his power into the Ring
<Krenon> So it's a sf anthology
<Redflame> Yeah, I've only read that one story though.
<Akatsukam> Probably not. Mana is a finite resource, which doesn't appear to be the case in Arda.
<Harry> I would suspect that Sauron's Ring would have a whole BUNCH of MANA in it.
<Krenon> That's it. But did it come out bit by bit with use?
<Andy_L> And the whole Tolkien sequence of every declining magic in Middle Earth fits
<Nesssus> Gandalf and Saruman both owned staffs set with Gems, mana stones?
<Andy_L> with mana depletion
<Krenon> The gradual decline of the elves as a race fits too.
<Andy_L> Maybe the Ring was so powerful because Gollum was ineffective in using up its manna?
<Akatsukam> Only if the total amount is trvial compared to the amount used to date.
<Krenon> Elves needed something - arguably similar to mana
<fithp> everyone in the novel is shaped by the Ringworld. Probably I'll retitle it RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN.
<Nesssus> The Ring only started growing in power again when Sauron awoke and started calling to it.
<Nesssus> Twins?
<Harry> Consider the stones of Far Seeing... Also consider that other than a stove, the biggest Watt hog in your home is likely to be your TV Set and or COmputer Monitor.
<Krenon> The power of the Ring was always there, but its purpose changed when Sauron started looking for it
<Nesssus> For most of the time that Gollum owned it, Sauron was asleep/discorporated
<Andy_L> BTW since Carol mentioned it first, my wife's first book is coming out soon - no magic or manna, just a little lost loon (Title is "A Loon Alone" for 4-8 year olds)
<Akatsukam> Hmmm. A possible Warlock/KS crossover here?
<Andy_L> The Ring needed someone who knew how to use it.
<Krenon> Yes and no. Certain beings would never learn how to fully use it
<Redflame> Sounds loony! :-) <ducks quickly>
<Andy_L> Meteors have a lot of manna presumably because the inherent manna in them hasn't been used yet - so space is full of manna
<Krenon> But others would, and they would become dark lords if they tried
<Harry> I would suspect that the invisibility granted by THE RING was a default property of it... There were other powers associated with it that would take MUCH more power.
<Nesssus> Larry, how many more Draco Tavern stories do you feel you need to write before they will be the right length for a dedicated Draco Tavern collection?
<Krenon> Good q
* Nesssus thinks the Draco Tavern stories would make a great TV show!
<Harry> Hmmm, COnsider NASA sending an Indian SHAMAN to the moon?
<Akatsukam> Just so, Andy. So, mankind gets into space, and finds mana available again.
<Andy_L> Galadriel essentially suggested that her decline in power was inevitable unless she took the Ring - maybe it is both a source of manna and a way to obtain more manna from distant places?
<fithp> Re Draco Tavern: Beats me. Eleanor Wood wants as many as she can get. I would think she'd start sounding out publishers now.
<Krenon> Yeah. Rick Schumann would make an interesting centrepiece for a TV series
<Andy_L> Akatsumka - that would be cool - wizards in space
<Redflame> We ALL want as many as we can get! ;-)
<Akatsukam> Indeed, we might postulate that EVERY sapient race has gone thru the mana depletion experience.
<fithp> Could you sell the Draco Tavern as the new Cheers?
<Redflame> LOL!
<Nesssus> How many SF shows seem to centre around a bar?
<Nesssus> DS9 - Quarks Bar
<Akatsukam> Human wizards vs. kzinti ones?
<Redflame> Every author seem sto have a bar series!
<Nesssus> Star Trek TNG: Ten Forward
<Andy_L> Dracos - the place where everybody knows your metabolism type
<Nesssus> Babylon 5: The Zocalo
<Nesssus> the list goes on
<fithp> At this time I think I've done under 20 Draco Tavern stories.
<Andy_L> DS 9 - Quark's
<Harry> Akat. Gasperik's Correlary states that "Any sufficently advanced form of Magic is indistingishable from Technology".
<Akatsukam> Aha! So that's the Outsiders' secret! :)
<Nesssus> Harry, that was originally Clarke's but you've got it turned on its head
<Krenon> Oh dear. Our little Tolkien group did discuss Sauron's Ring as if it were a piece of technology.
<Harry> Bars are not politically Correct. It would have a tough time making it past the NetZecs.
<Andy_L> Maybe there's some way to connect manna depletion with the hyperspace/gravity well exclusion
<Akatsukam> As a naturally space-faring species, the Outsiders are in the idea position to...
<Harry> I said it was a Correlary Nessus.
<Akatsukam> ...avoid mana depletion.
<Andy_L> Krenon - there was an article in SF Weekly a few months back about the Ring as technology
<fithp> The secret is, whatever works, some people will get better at. Magic that works will be treated as technology.
<Redflame> I prefer to think of magic as a form of psychology.
<Harry> Kzin would not make good wizards. They'd try to execute the spell before it ws finished.
<Andy_L> Great point fithp - that's another reason to doubt claims of pyschic powers - there's no transition to the practical
<Akatsukam> That not only explains Outsider tech, it explains SCSI drives as well :)
<Andy_L> Maybe only kzin telepaths could use magic. Puppeteers might think magic too dangerous to mess with
<Andy_L> There are valid technical reasons why a chicken sacrifice isrequired when setting up scsi drives!
<Nesssus> ?
<Andy_L> Redflame - mob psychology might be a form of magic - did you ever see "The Music Man"?
<Krenon> What has chicken got to do with scsi? What do you use with eide?
<Harry> MUSIC MAN Carol? Ever watch the proceedings of COngress?
<Redflame> Yes, "Good night my someone good night, my love, sleep TIGHT my someone sleep tight, my love..."
<Andy_L> Chicken gizzards are kind of scuzzy - the connection to scsi should be clear
<Nesssus> maybe virgins, Ted
<Harry> WIth IDE you use a goat.
<Krenon> And USB?
<Nesssus> a pig
<Krenon> Nesssus, where does one get THEM these days?
<Redflame> GUys at my church have an annual goat roast. However, I do not think they actaully kill the goat at the time.
<Nesssus> the Vatican
<Andy_L> Harold Hill takes vague illease among the River City folk and creates, as if by magic, a marching band, respect for literature and a happier life for most of the town - he's a witch
<Redflame> My brother's pig just had babies. They are about 3 weeks old now. I could get my mom to bring one down next week....
<Akatsukam> Freshly killed goat tastes terrible. You want it thoroughly blooded and aged a little first.
<Nesssus> I think Ted was asking about Virgins....
<Krenon> I was
<Nesssus> Akatsukam, you make a goat sound like a pheasant that needs to be hung for a while...
<Akatsukam> Obvoiusly, technology that relies on sacrificing virgins doesn't work often enough :)
<Redflame> I'd think a half hour soaked in brine or milk would be enough.
<Harry> BTW, We finally got some rain here. I was awoken by a crack of thunder at about 7 Am. Peggy said that the Angels were bowling again.
<Andy_L> Speaking of magic as technology - did anyone ever read Walter Jon Williams' Metropolitan - I recommend it. Manna, he calls "plasm"
<Redflame> The pig, not the virgin.
<Redflame> I thought that was Thor who liked to bowl!
<Akatsukam> Farmed pheasant doesn't really need hanging, although it does need blooding.
<Redflame> Akatsu, when something is "blooded" how long should it hang? Is half an hour enough?
<Nesssus> Larry, is Burning Tower one of the "two novels" that you are currently working on? If so, what is it's progress?
<Akatsukam> Large amountss of blood left the flesh of anything makes it taste nasty.
<Harry> Usually about 6-8 hrs Carol.
<fithp> "Burning Tower" is one of the two, yes. It's going well. Jerry's at a con, so for the moment, it's mine.
<Harry> Less in hot weather.
<Akatsukam> You want all the blood that will drip out on its own to do so. Koshering is not necessary.
<fithp> The other novel is "Creation Myth". I'm reading the work Brenda has been doing.
<Redflame> So, a goat roast where one actually killed the goat, would need to be a very long event.
<Akatsukam> Oh, to be sure.
<Nesssus> Will you be doing any more exploration trips, like the one you did last October in New Mexico - or is the story almost wrapped up by this stage?
<Harry> How has Brend been doing Larry?
<Harry> BRENDA!
<fithp> Brenda's been doing good work. I've done little on this first pass...but it's time I got deep into this.
<Krenon> brb
<Andy_L> brb?
<Redflame> Redd, was wondering if "Brend" was a nickname I hadn't heard before inconnection with her!
<Nesssus> Be right back
<fithp> Exploration trips: we've done all we need for Burning Tower. For the probable sequel, we'll need to get into Mexico.
<Redflame> Good that it is set in the Americas, and not the middle east!
<Nesssus> I hope you like Tequilas....
<Harry> Mexico produces a tolerable Brandy Nessus.
<Harry> Infact several.
<Redflame> Not liking fermented grains or juices, I'd have to carry a lot of water, and probably would keep a water boiler on hand too. I've heard it is the ICE that gets most people!
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<Andy_L> A "Brandy Nessus" - sounds like a great mixed drink - requiring two heads of course
<Redflame> Hi xihr
<xihr> hello
<Nesssus> Hello Eric
<xihr> fithp?!
<Akatsukam> Afternoon, xihr.
<Nesssus> YES!
<Harry> Hi xihr
<xihr> heh, cool
<Andy_L> hey there xihr
<xihr> what's up guys
<xihr> Nesssus: long time no see
<Nesssus> We are talking about Manna and Magic
<xihr> as the years go buy you keep adding S's :-)
<Nesssus> I'm usually here as Vash too ;-)
<Andy_L> Talking about manna in space, future books and goat-killing practices
<Redflame> Has anyone here ever heard of "winter wine" what is supposed to be a form of non-distilled brandy where wine is frozen to remove excess water?
<Harry> The AZTEC Two Step is an Amobic disease Nessus. Amobeas freeze well and revive well too.
<Akatsukam> Yup, Carol.
<Harry> Yupper Red. I've even made it.
<Andy_L> Redflame - no, but sounds easier than distilling and effective enough to pack a punch
<xihr> bb
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<Redflame> How old is that technique, and where did it originate?
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<Redflame> Hi xihr
<Andy_L> Maybe by accident
<Harry> You can generally gat a winter wine to about 20-24% 40 Proof.
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<Harry> I think it started in France or England.
<Andy_L> Guys - I've got to run. It's been great to chat - see you on the list
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<Redflame> I was not trying to imply that winter wine would cause something to not cause Mentezuma's revenge. I was thinking aobut some mint wine my sister made. I dont' allow alcohol in my house, and Lanae can't drink with
the drugs she is taking, but I was thinking that making it wintter wine would be easy, and SOMEONE else might enjoy the result better.
<Harry> I wonder if it would work with Ale?
<fithp> winter wine seems straightforward. The dregs might freeze in the ice too, and alcohol might kill the amoebas.
<Redflame> Ale has the fizz. Freezing repeatedly would mess with that.
<fithp> Should work with ale and beer, sure. I'm absolutely guessing, folk.
<Redflame> My step father, an engineer with Phillips Petroleum, made winter wine once. The dregs sunk, and the ice forms on top. from what I remember.
<Nesssus> Have you got a favorite tipple, Larry?
<Harry> Alcohol WOULD kill the Amoebas Fithp. The Ph isn't right for them if alcohol is present.
<Krenon> De-alcoholising by selective freezing is a bit tricky
<fithp> Freeze dried beer. Just add club soda!
<Krenon> :-)
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<Redflame> Hi bcooper
<Redflame> Is it Ted? Have you done it.
<Nesssus> Hello Brenda
<Redflame> Speak of the devil!
<bcooper> Hi Carol! I was afriad you all would be done by now
<Redflame> I do have to leave early.
<fithp> Hello, Brenda
<Harry> BRENDA! Great to see you!
<bcooper> Me as the devil?
<Krenon> No, but I've looked into it. The problem is that the alcohol is what doesn't freeze so you have to get the liquid out while retaining the solids, at -10 C or less.
* Redflame is taking her kids to a benefit concert.
<Krenon> Hi Brenda
<Redflame> We were talking about you.
<fithp> I'm halfway through Creation Myth. It's a lot smoother...and I'll not go into detail for the mob.
<bcooper> Hi Larry, Harry. Glad to hear Myth is better - lot's of work!
<Nesssus> we don't mind spoilers.....<g>
<Redflame> Mob? Us? But we have established that mobs are FULL of magic!
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<Redflame> Hi gfish
<gfish> Heya
<Harry> Hi Matthew!
<gfish> Sorry, had to go run some errands.
<Redflame> Is it something about beautiful spring weather that makes everyone want to come inside and sit at their computers? :-)
<Nesssus> Welcome back Matt
<Krenon> Hi Matt
<bcooper> It's not beautiful spring weather up here! It's raining in Seattle.
<Nesssus> I don't know about beautiful spring weather, its been blowing one hell of a gale here today.
<bcooper> You must be in the nice place Redflame
<Harry> It was BEAUTIFUL here thismorning. We GOt RAIN!
<Krenon> Well it's a fantastic autumn day here in Sydney
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<Redflame> Hi SteveS
<SteveS> Hi, all!
<Nesssus> Hello Steve
<Harry> HI Steve.
<bcooper> Hi Steve
<xihr> mid-60s, partially cloudy in the Bay Area
<Redflame> I actaully wnet outside and worked in the yard. It was perfect
<fithp> I just opened my blinds. The day is bright but cloudy.
<xihr> here it's not that cloudy but not bright for some reason either
<xihr> your average confused Northern California winter day
<Redflame> My favorite, next to heavy shade. Beleive it or not, I'm not a sun worshipper.
<SteveS> It's bright but a little chillier than usual this time of the year.
<xihr> rain frightens us here in the Bay Area
<Nesssus> back in a sec
<Redflame> LOL!
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<gfish> Not raining in my part of Seattle. Nice sunny day.
<fithp> I've never really tried to nail down what you worship, Redflame.
<xihr> when it rains we think we're being punished and drive erratically
<bcooper> Well, then don't move to Seattle - we worship the sun whenever it shows up. It's such a rare occurence it must be a sign from God.
<xihr> fithp: are you all recovered from your injury?
<Harry> Something just occured to me Fithp. The Earth's mass is growing by about 1,000,000 tons a day due to the collection of Micrometeorites. The MANA will NEVER go completely away!
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<Redflame> Hi Vash
<fithp> I am recovered from all injuries, especially the torn knee. If I can hike, it's healed enough.
<Redflame> LOL. In that case, I might make exceptions. My eyes are just so sensitive to light. Maybe I'm actaully a vampire, or some other creature of the night.
<Vash> back!
<Harry> Wb Vash
<xihr> fithp: good to hear
*** Vash is now known as Nesssus
<fithp> Yes, of COURSE manna resides in meteorites. Griffith Park Observatory must be (and is) a very magical place.
<bcooper> I was late to the party - did you all talk about today's announcement of likely chlorophyll on Mars?
<Redflame> No!
<Redflame> Bring it up!
<SteveS> Chlorophyll on Mars?!
<xihr> yeah, I scanned past that as well
* xihr remembers 2010
<Krenon> Do creative artists, including writers, absorb mana in their creative activity?
<Nesssus> no - I've not checked my email since this morning.
<Harry> Now THAT is interesting!
<Nesssus> 2010 was Chlorophyll on Europa
<Harry> Where's the article Brenda?
<xihr> yes
<bcooper> They are saying there a number of likely spots. More to be announced at a conference in San Jose this week - NASA's astrobiology conference. See CNN for article
<Redflame> Yes.... Artists are also vampiric in nature, drawing creative energy/life force from those around them.
<Nesssus> Is that in the Mars rock, Brenda?
<Nesssus> Or have they found another source?
<gfish> It was in spectroscopic analysis of Pathfinder images.
<gfish> Which seems like pretty weak evidence to me.
<bcooper> Krenon: We hope for mana!
<Harry> OMG! There goe the Creation Myths... Nobody tell the Baptist Church!
<bcooper> Yes, it's weak evidence - but the original vidence for water was weak too. I am hopeful.
<Redflame> Peter says that he heard about that rumor, and that it was too early to get excited about it.
<Krenon> Feminists might want to say persona :-)
<fithp> okay if I get excited early?
<Redflame> fithp, YOU can get excited any time you want!
<bcooper> Yes, too early. I was trying to go to the conference, but I am stuck in seattle. Now I want to be there twice as badly.
<Redflame> conference... space access?
<bcooper> Fithp: ditto redflame
<bcooper> No - the astrobiology conference. Next week, San Jose. Science fiction night on Wednesday, lots of stuff that would go over my head the other days, but I'd get some of it.
<fithp> We're booked for a wedding, a birthday, and a lot of traveling during the Space Access window. I'm going to miss it.
<Krenon> :-(
<Redflame> "A wedding, a birthday, and a lot of traveling" sounds like a new movie.
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<Krenon> Hullo! Why did they all go?
<fithp> Have fun at the astrobiology event, Brenda. Nobody ever absorbs all of the data.
<Redflame> Oh, lots of people got bumped.
<bcooper> Wow - bye everyone!
<SteveS> Starring Hugh Grant!
<Krenon> Must have been on a server that went down
<Redflame> I'm sure they will be back.
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<Krenon> There they are
<Harry> Grief!
<Krenon> Magic :-D
<gfish> Re
<Harry> WB All!
<Nesssus> oh you are all back
<Nesssus> We just suffered a netsplit
<fithp> folk, it has become my lunchtime. Fare you well.
<Nesssus> that is where the IRC servers lose contact with each other
<Krenon> Bye
<Redflame> Hi Nesssus
<Redflame> Hi gfish
<Redflame> Hi xihr
<Redflame> Hi Harry
<Harry> Interesting article Brenda... I wonder what else would match the spectral signature of Chlorophyll?
<Nesssus> Goodbye Larry
<Krenon> Catch you at ConJose
<xihr> fithp: see you
<SteveS> Bon apetit, Larry! :-)
<Nesssus> It was a pleasure having you here
<xihr> Redflame: I had a feeling your greetings were automated :-)
<bcooper> Is gfish Mathew Dockrey? He was on the list once, and anyway, I heard his group (escape key) at Norwescon. They were good.
<Redflame> Larry, Peter asks you a ??
<Harry> Adios Larry. Have a good one.
<Nesssus> Brenda, yes.
<gfish> Yes, I am he. And thanks. :)
<Redflame> He wonders if you know of a SF writer who still uses word star.
<bcooper> Bye Larry - have a super day!
<gfish> I'm still on the list, I just don't post as often.
<Krenon> I use a bit of one of Michelle's songs as an opening on my computer
<bcooper> Well, I never post. Got your CD - it's good!
<Harry> Red, I'd use Q&A WRITE 4.0 if I could find a copy.
<fithp> Redflame, I have no idea who uses wordstar.
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* Redflame sighs
<SteveS> I think I may have an old copy of Q&A Write on a floppy somewhere.
<bcooper> One of the people in my writing group does - Renee Stern.
<Krenon> Gone - like the Outsiders in their inertialess drive.
<Redflame> Peter says he was surfing recently, and someone was telling about
using a DOS emulator under Linux so that someone could continue to use WordStar.
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<Krenon> They split again
<bcooper> Wow - these guys don't get to stay long. What's a netsplit anyway?
<Krenon> Some mysterious esoteric attribute of IRC I presume
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<Krenon> Either that or we have a witch operating :-)
<Redflame> Hi Ness_food
<Redflame> Hi gfish
<Redflame> Hi xihr
<Redflame> Hi Harry
<Harry> Wb all.
<SteveS> Since IRC uses several different servers, I'm guessing that some servers connected to a given room split away and form their own rooms
<Krenon> Naaa - it's definitely magic.
* Redflame hides her wand
<bcooper> Magic sounds better
<Krenon> But you didn't hide your broom or cat
<Harry> ??
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<SteveS> Brooms and cats can be innocent, and wands can't?
<Nesssus> Hello?
<bcooper> Hello....
<Krenon> Hi
<bcooper> If that's magic, then the computers are using Mana as fast as outer space is feeding us...
<Harry> Here Nessus.
<Nesssus> I'm going to change servers
<Harry> -k-
<Redflame> My broom, I'm going to throw away my favorite magic broom that I used in our wedding. It is falling apart, and I'd rather not add repairing my broom to my list of responsibilities.
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<Krenon> In one of the later "History of Middle Earth" series (Christopher Tolkien publishing every word his father ever wrote), referred to Morgoth having "squanderes his being" on corrupting Middle-earth
<Redflame> Even the QUEEN has a wand. They just call it a septer.
<Krenon> meaning he had a lot of something the equivalent of mana, and he wasted it
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<Redflame> Hi nesssus
<nesssus> That's better
<bcooper> Well - you can keep a little bity of the broom (like some bristles?) and decorate a new one - transfer the magic! Easy.
<Krenon> I can't remember any mention of the broom in your wedding.
<Harry> So Red. ANything now on RAWA?
<nesssus> shouldn't that be the Groom at the wedding?
<Harry> Am I alone here?
<bcooper> Good question Harry --
<Redflame> No, I"m here, just can't quite talking....
<Harry> Cats aren't the only familiers Krenon, just the best ones.
<nesssus> Only SETI can answer that one.....
<Redflame> Broom, Good idea, Brenda. Esp the bow is worth keeping.
<Krenon> Have you all seen Carol's wedding page?
<Redflame> We jumped over the broom just before the pronouncements.
<Harry> You going for a NIMBUS 2002 Red?
<SteveS> Why isn't Richard Dean Anderson selling something useful like Stargate access, instead of lame long-distance phone cards?
<Redflame> Rawa recently sponcored a sporting event. I'll forward you the announcemnt if you like.
<bcooper> Are things getting better for them there? There's so much I read about that makes me glad I'm here!
<Harry> The binding works better than the straws Brenda. Magic Threads!
<bcooper> Ah - good idea. Utility probably depends on what the binding is made of on her particular broom.
<Krenon> brb
<Redflame> The Northern ALiiance is little, if any, better than the Taliban.
<Harry> Red? Would you please send me the RAWA links? I want to post them on a couple of chat rooms.
<Harry> And there's no wonder about that Red. ALl the progress made in Afghanistan was wiped out by the Russians and the Taliban.
<Redflame> They usually list links at the bottom of every letter they send out.
<bcooper> How are they no better (I suspected )
<SteveS> What is RAWA?
<Redflame> One letter they sent out told about the Northern Alliance killing Pushtun babies they oulled from the arms of of their crying mothers.
<Redflame> A women's group in Afghanistan.
<bcooper> Ouch.
<SteveS> Ah.
<Harry> Remember Red, the Northern Alliance is a GROUP not a single body. Tribal hatreds die Hard in places like afghanistan/
<SteveS> I didn't know that, but I'm not exactly surprised.
<Redflame> Yes, they are all very very predjudiced over there.
<Harry> Much of that country is still at the 14th century level.
<bcooper> Humans ARE usually crueler and.or stupoder in groups than as individuals.
<bcooper> Stupider - is that a word anyway --? But you get the idea.
<Redflame> The new "government" is still not giving any political power to the women. They need to stop treating the women worse than slaves.
<Harry> Truly Brenda. I've seen people do things as groups they would NEVER consider as individuals.
<Harry> Errr Red? One thing that no Western GOvernment has taken into account. Slavery still exists in the world and FLOURISHED in Islamic cultures.
<bcooper> Red: If they are at least getting health care and education, then the rest will have to follow, I hope. Too much change too fast might not work, no matter how bad the thought of less than prefect freedom
<bcooper> FLOURISHES. Article in a recnt magazine - I don't remember which one.
<Harry> Too much change too fast NEVER works. It just produces backlash. SOmething that American Feminists have never learned.
<Harry> You know that Money Grab going on by those Black Activeists? I wonder if they KNOW that the enslavement of blacks is still going on in Africa..
<Harry> Of course, it's being done by other Blacks, so maybe that dosen't count.
<bcooper> That's alittle simplistic. I know some black activists, and not all of them are thrilled by the suit, nor do they ignore the slavery. Same issue as with the afghani's - group behavior.
<Redflame> Too much change too fast may not be good for MEN, but it is usually much better for women.
<SteveS> I don't know about that, since I've read tht a lot of support fror female genital mutilation comes from the women themselves.
<bcooper> Yes, women are good at change. But political change is best done more slowly, espacially in a fragmented poor place. Knowledge and education, exposure to modern ideas - those will matter a lot in the long run.
<Harry> I can't think of a culture where too rapid a change (Not just about the treatment of gender either) hasn't had some catistrophic results Red.
<Harry> Slower chang worked in Iran and is STILL working.
<Redflame> I'm supposed to be leaving for a concert, and I have NO idea where it is, and neither does anyone else here, so I have to try to figure it out.
<Harry> -k- Red. ENjoy!
<bcooper> It's hard to see women (or anyone) disenfrashed from things we think of as basic.
<bcooper> By Red. I've got to go too. Have fun at the concert!
<Redflame> RIght now, I'd rather just send everyone away and be by myself.
<Krenon> Bye Brenda
<Redflame> TY, nice talking to you Brenda. See you at Con Jose?
<bcooper> Well, maybe it will be a good concert.
<xihr> later
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<Harry> Brenda, a truth is, that it is hard to envision ANYTHING unless you spend a lot of time at it or go there and see it first hand.
<Harry> Adios Brenda
<SteveS> Bye, Carol and Brenda!
<bcooper> I'll be at conjose. Bye all!
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<Harry> I should go too. Time for pain Meds.
<Harry> Adios all.
<Krenon> Bye
<SteveS> Bye, Frank!
<Harry> Adios Krenon, Steve.
<Harry> 1-gone=
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<Krenon> BOO!!
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<Krenon> Scared him off :-)
<Krenon> I think it might be about time to wrap this up
<SteveS> <g>
<SteveS> Yup, looks like it.
<SteveS> I can't believe I was at the grocery store most of the time Larry was here...
<Krenon> We have the whole thing on log anyway
<Krenon> Or I do, don't know about the others.
<Krenon> Nobody seemed to expect him to show up
<SteveS> Yeah, that's true.
<Krenon> I suppose he likes to pay his respects to his fans occasionally
<Redflame> Bye.....
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<Krenon> Bye Carol
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<nesssus> I'm going to be off too
* nesssus SHOUTS "GOOD NIGHT, TED"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<nesssus> bye steve
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<SteveS> Night, Nesssus!
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<Krenon_monitor> Bye bye bye
Session Close: Sun Apr 07 08:44:07 2002