Nicholas Gurewitch | The Perry Bible Fellowship
The Flak Comics Interview
By James Norton

If you ask a typical Web user to name his or her favorite online comic, three strips are frequently mentioned: Achewood, Penny Arcade, and the Perry Bible Fellowship. But while Achewood is a character-driven ensemble comic, and Penny Arcade revolves around the same two dudes (and their games) every strip, PBF is completely untethered; from week to week, the writing, tone, and the style of its art change radically. What has been consistent over the strip's five-year lifespan — and what's helped it make the jump to numerous alt-weekly newspapers — is its exquisitely detailed look and dark comic sensibility.

As of this weekend, the PBF book was the #1 seller in the Amazon "Comic Strips" section, and is knocking on the door of the top 500 books overall — all via pre-orders. Flak caught up with PBF creator Nicholas Gurewitch via a phone call from his Rochester, NY apartment.

FLAK: I've been following Perry Bible Fellowship for 2 or 3 years at this point. Has it evolved fairly radically from its original sort of concept or has it stayed fairly static throughout its entire history?

NICHOLAS GUREWITCH: Some people seem to be able to see the development when they look at the archive. I've heard from a lot of people that there's been an artistic transformation in that the strips have been getting more detailed as they become more recent.

FLAK: In other words the more recent strips have kind of a more intense manifestation of a particular style? Or...

NG: Oh yeah, that's something that definitely wasn't going on earlier.

FLAK: That kind of shape shifting thing you do. One of the things that anyone who reads your strip comments on is the fact that it almost feels like it's a collective of artists who are collaborating because the style and approach shift so much from strip to strip.

What led you down that path in terms of how radically you shift your artistic style every time you draw?

NG: I think I've just always respected people who are really flexible. My favorite actors are always the guys like Sean Penn and Johnny Depp and Kevin Spacey who play all sorts of characters. I've always admired that ability and I guess I just seek to keep things fresh in the same way that those guys do.

FLAK: Do you have a book in the works?

NG: There's a hardcover out there right now that's available for preorder on Amazon right now and it should be out this October, I think. Hopefully.

FLAK: What publisher did you go through, if I could ask?

NG: Dark Horse.

FLAK: Oh, right on. That's big guns. You've got, I would say, of anybody on the Flak comics page, you've got sort of one of the most craft-intensive styles. You draw your stuff and it's painstakingly detailed. On the other end of the spectrum there's strips like Ryan North's Dinosaur Comics and Wondermark that are not really drawn at all.

What's your take on comics that don't use any sort of drawn art, per se?

NG: I don't think there's a rule about whether comics need to have good art or not, I think the only rule, as far as I can tell, is that you've got to make something honest, something that works with your voice. And Ryan North has found something that works entirely with who he is and you can hear his voice through it and it works. I really don't think there are any rules...

FLAK: Do you have any modern-day influences... peers in the cartooning world who you admire and follow and possibly even learn from as you do your strip? Are there people that you sort of look up to who are working now?

NG: I don't follow too many modern-day artists but there are certainly a bunch of classics that I really respect. I mean, I definitely notice a lot of the work that's being done lately, I just wouldn't say that I follow it yet.

FLAK: Give me a couple of the classics that really have inspired you or informed your work or even that you really just enjoyed as a reader.

NG: Aside from Bill Watterson and Gary Larson I've taken a real admiration to Gahan Wilson and Charles Addams. Charles Addams especially seems to have such a lock on what makes something morbidly funny. I really find what he does really amazing sometimes. Because it's so simple.

FLAK: My parents have a fat Charles Addams collection and I remember as a kid paging through it and being struck at just how truly dark it was. I mean there's a veneer of humor to it, and then underneath that there's a real darkness and maybe beyond that there's yet another layer of humor but I was really impressed as a young person that someone was using a form of art that's regarded as very accessible and gentle to prowl around in dark waters.

NG: I wouldn't say that the humor covers up the darkness. I think the darkness is so freaking evident and it's disturbing and then I think the humor is sort of underneath that. I think what hits me first is gosh that's horrible and then oh my gosh that's actually really insightful. And there's this really interesting experience that almost makes it seem as if Charles Addams understands the human psyche a little bit more than everyone else. It's a really magical experience.

FLAK: What's your take on the state of cartooning and comics in relationship to newspapers, daily, alt weekly whatever form of printed matter you want to talk about?

NG: I think it's a little unfortunate that the newspaper itself is having a hard time trying to stay alive but it only makes sense that the comic page is suffering because that is the case. I think newspapers have a hard time competing with the Internet, so there's gonna be a lot less emphasis on trying to appeal to people who have Internet access.

FLAK: Are you able to make money as an artist using the Internet as a medium and/or do you actually care about that?

NG: The Internet does play a role, I've been selling prints and T-shirts for a while now and it's good money, although it's not my primary source.

FLAK: What's the story behind going back and editing strips that you've posted on your site in a sort of previous incarnation?

NG: Have you noticed that?

FLAK: Actually it's kind of funny you ask me that. I am talking to one of Flak's interns and said well, you know, you can help me with this feature I'm working on A) by helping me transcribe these endlessly long annoying mp3s but you can also, if you have any questions you want to ask these guys, let me know. And she said well yeah, ask Nick Gurewitch what's the deal with going back and editing the cartoons on his site.

NG:I guess it is interesting, I'm wondering if it's negative, that almost kinda sounds like she's upset at something that I've done.

FLAK: You know, and I can only speak personally, but for me as a reader, once I see something it becomes canonical, it becomes what it is if that makes any sense, and revisions, personally I find them disturbing.

NG: It's so disturbing to people, like no one really takes to it that well. Including myself, I despise it when artists change their stuff but ... it's tough to say whether your perception is more important than the artist's. It's like in 99 percent of the cases it's very wrong to go back and change something that you've already made, that's already hit upon your audience, but I think certain times that I've done it, I've felt a deep inner compulsion for some reason or another that might, that might be satisfying some urge that I have to experiment or to explore new territory and in that regard I think it might be beneficial.

FLAK: Is it ever a matter of thinking well that came out wrong and now I have insights that can make it better or can fix something that happened the first time around?

NG: A lot of the time it might just be that I think I can make it stronger or that I can add a little boost to whatever momentum the comic has.

FLAK: So I asked you about the book coming out which is fairly exciting — is that kind of your one bigger / longer-term project that you're thinking about right now, or is there anything else coming up that's exciting / interesting / distracting?

NG: The book was definitely a huge project.

FLAK: Is this just sort of a collection of strips that you've done or will there be original work with it?

NG: There's a batch of brand new strips but for the most part it's just a collection of everything that's been published. That was definitely a huge long-term project. I have a hard time embarking on other comic projects despite other people's interests. I get a lot of requests from companies that are interested in freelance work or comics just for them but I don't know, its tough to think outside my four little boxes.

FLAK: Is it just a question of you have an internal motivation that drives what you do and if you sort of launched out to outside work you'd be, in some sense, betraying that or is it just a mere question of time, where you're so consumed with what you do now that other projects would just not leave you with time to do the strip to your satisfaction...?

NG: I think I have a hard time summoning up the inspiration to make something that speaks for me. The PBF always in a way kind of speaks for me, because it doesn't say that much. You know, it's just generally a little gag on the surface, and if it says something, it's very subtle and psychological — symbolic. I'm just very comfortable with the format and how it lets me express myself. I've always felt that expression is endangered if I try to do a new format, or if I try to do something for someone else.

FLAK: What's the origin of the name?

NG: That name was selected pretty much randomly. There's not a huge story behind it.

FLAK: So there isn't an actual Bible fellowship...?

NG: I actually think there is one out there that corresponds, in fact I know there is one, but you know, it's just one of those things, like if you say, design a character in a video game and give him a name, you often give him a very silly name, for humorous effect. Like Idiot or Moron, or if I'm bowling I'll punch my name on the scorecard as Rambo. The names are ... they generally don't mean much. I'm not trying to be ironic with them.

FLAK: Where do you think this strip is in its life cycle? I mean, is this a young strip, a middle-aged strip, a dying strip, timeless, ageless, you don't have any idea?

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