==POV and format problems == This article uses the wrong spelling, is blatantly POV and is not written in an encyclopaedic format. Please take action. --TwinsFan48 1 Jan 2004 :I quite agree - I've tackled the problems while trying to keep the factual NPOV information that Levzur added as well as restoring the large amount of information deleted without reason or explanation. Please do keep an eye on the article. -- ChrisO 00:51, 2 Jan 2004 (UTC) ----- ==Mikhail vs Mikheil== I disagree. I am not a native speaker, but I know enough to say that "Mikheil" is correct both as a transliteration and is closer to the proper pronounciation. I think Mikhail has become the most common spelling because most people are used to this form from Russian. Anyway, wikipedia is not a popularity contest, so the form most commonly use in the press doesn't have to be accepted here as the correct one. The Gorbachev example is not relevant here. Russian is much less phonetic than Georgian. It would be coorect IMO to have the main entry "Mikheil", and rerefrence "Mikhail" as well. Strašna mačka 20:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC) Levzur - the standard spelling is Mikh'''A'''il Saakashvili! I know that this is not the transliteration preferred by native Georgians, but it is used by the media and anyone who is not intimately familiar with the nuances of Georgian politics or linguistics. --TwinsFan48 :A Google News search shows that Mikhail (148 results) is used far more often than Mikheil (9 results). The clear preference does seem to be for the former, rather than the latter. I suggest using Mikhail but noting in the article that "Mikheil" is an alternative transliteration. The latter is probably a more accuration rendition of the vowel sound, admittedly, but the name ''is'' usually transliterated in the former way - think Gorbachev, for instance. -- ChrisO 20:47, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC) ::The alternative use was in the article right alongside "Mikhail," but reverted. TwinsFan48 3 Jan 2004 :::It was deleted along with much else, for no apparent reason. Levzur seems to have a dislike of anything to do with ex-President Shevardnadze, such as the fact that Saakashvili was recruited to join his party. If you look at his edits on this article and that on Zviad_Gamsakhurdia and Eduard_Shevardnadze, you will see quite a clear agenda. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's quite irritating to see factual statements being deleted for apparently political reasons. Anyway, I've reverted the article while keeping the (very small) number of new facts - principally dates - that he added with his last edit. -- ChrisO 23:29, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC) ----- ==Oops== Oops! Adam, you're quite right about the grammar. My bad... -- ChrisO 11:12, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- == Letter from Levzur == Dear friends, The United_National_Movement is not coalition of political organizations. UNM is political party and was founded in October, 2001 (source: information from the Press Center of UNM). The "New Rights" and "Union of Georgian Traditionalists" are in opposition to the UNM! "New Rights" supported so-called "Governmental election block" in November, 2003! The party "United Democrats" of Zurab Zhvania is independent organization from UNM. I inform you that Mr. Saakashvili won the Presidential Elections with about 96% of the votes. With best regards, Dr. Levan Z. Urushadze (user "Levzur") :My source for this was a BBC translation of a report on Rustavi-2 TV, Tbilisi, in Georgian on June 3, 2003, which states: :''The leaders of Georgia's three major opposition parties - the National Movement, the United Democrats and New Right - have announced that they, together with two smaller parties, are establishing what they call a united people's movement, Rustavi-2 TV reported.'' :''They were speaking at a rally of their supporters outside parliament on 3 June, which was staged following the government's rejection of calls by the opposition for it to be better represented on commissions that will be counting votes cast in the country's parliamentary elections in November.'' :''The leader of the National Movement and chairman of Tbilisi city council, Mikheil Saakashvili, was first to announce the establishment of the new movement. "Today, we, the leaders of the United National Movement, New Right, the United Democrats, the People's Party and the Traditionalists declare that all these political forces are forming a Georgia-wide united people's movement in order to attain a single goal. We are launching a united people's movement in order to remove this regime and instead get what the Georgian people wants," Saakashvili said.'' :Looking at this again, I think the confusion may have arisen because of the reference to a "united ''people's'' movement" - i.e. an alliance between the UNM and the other parties. I'll amend the article to reflect that. -- ChrisO 10:15, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- ==Edit request== There is an important factual mistake in the first paragraph. As the rules don't allow me to edit it myself, I propose changing it to the form (with necessary corrections, as English is not my first language): '''''Mikhail Saakashvili''' (born December_21, 1967) is a Georgian jurist and politician, elected President of the Republic_of_Georgia on January_4, 2004 (will be inaugurated on January 25). Saakashvili's given name is also used in the Georgian form '''Mikheil''' (he is commonly known as "Misha").'' :I have unprotected the page since the edit war seems to be over. Maximus Rex 11:20, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- ==Mikheil vs Mikhail (round 2)== I realise this has been debated already, but it seems to me that if Mikheil is the Georgian form of Mikhail, and if Saakashvili is Georgian, we ought to call him Mikheil. The fact that most news and other sources call him Mikhail doesn't mean very much, because they are being filtered through Russian news services who use Russianised forms, and because almost no-one in the west can speak or read Georgian. Adam 13:32, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC) :If we used the native forms in the other CIS countries, the names of the leaders would be Mikheil Saakashvili, Saparmyrat Nyyazow, Islom Karimov, Emomali Rahmonov, etc. And, last I checked, only one was used regularly on Wikipedia. More people will recognize forms that they are familiar with from the media. --TwinsFan48 ::So we have redirects from the more commonly used forms. Why is this a problem? Adam 13:59, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC) :::I think we should do it the other way round - name the articles according to the most commonly used forms (as those will receive the majority of searches), but have redirects from the alternative forms. -- ChrisO 15:54, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- ==Inauguration day== Source for the inauguration day: http://www.1tv.ru/owa/win/ort6_main.main?p_news_razdel_id=9&p;_news_title_id=62730. Andres 11:41, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC) :Saakashvili clearly isn't president until he's inaugurated on January 25. Could Levzur please not reintroduce the inaccurate claim that he's already president? -- ChrisO 10:29, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- ==Kashueti== How is "Kashueti" written in Georgian? What does it mean? Is it a place? Andres 19:51, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC) ---- Kashueti is written as ქაშუეთი. This is the name of an old church in the centre of Tbilisi (Capital of Georgia) - right in front of the parliament building. =="Anticipated" vs "pre-term"== Andres, I've removed "anticipated" from the description of the January 4 elections - it makes no sense in that context. I can't work out what Levzur means by "pre-term", but Googling for "pre-term elections" suggests that the expression is used almost entirely in reference to elections in the former Soviet Union and Slav countries. My guess is that it's a term in Slavic languages, which has also been adopted by non-Slav former Soviet Union countries, but it may not have an obvious counterpart in English. We don't preface the word "elections" with "pre-term" or anything like that. Until Levzur started using it in Georgia articles, I'd never heard of the expression. I would advise against using it because its meaning won't be clear to the majority of English-speakers. -- ChrisO 00:06, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) : I agree that clear expressions should be used. I don't know the right expression but, as I take it, the sense is that the elections are arranged far before the end of the term (that is, normal time in office) of the previous president. Andres 00:19, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) :: In that case, it's no different to normal practice in the English-speaking world. In the United States, for instance, the presidential election is held at least a month before the end of the president's term. -- ChrisO 10:49, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) ::: My point is that the elections are arranged ''far'' before the end of the previous president, implying that the new president enters office when the term of the previous president is not over. Usually this occurs when the previous president dies or resigns. In the United States and Argentina, in such cases the vice-president becomes president, and no elections are held. In France, new elections are held. Maybe the right word is "extraordinary"? Andres :::: I think I understand what you mean now - an unscheduled election? So if elections are normally held at (let's say) four-year intervals and an election had to be held after two years, that would be a "pre-term" election? -- ChrisO 21:29, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) ::::: At least, this is how I understand the word. Andres 22:06, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) Mikhail is a russian form. In gerogian it's Mikheil. Is it really so difficult to say "Mikheil"??? Washington post and some other papers already use "Mikheil" Russian Georgian Elena Elene Irina Irine Alexander Alexandre etc.