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The Scoop From the Nation's Capital
This partial transcript of The Beltway Boys, December 1, 2001 was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House. Click here to order the complete transcript
MORT KONDRACKE, CO-HOST: I'm Mort Kondracke.
FRED BARNES, CO-HOST: And I'm Fred Barnes, and we're THE BELTWAY BOYS.
KONDRACKE: Before we get to the hot stories about the war in Afghanistan, these ghastly bombings that have taken place in Jerusalem raise serious questions about whether Yasser Arafat can or will control violence in — among Palestinian groups in Israel.
And if that's the case, whether he can't or he's unable to, why is the United States putting pressure on Israel to deal with Arafat? Yes, you know, it makes less sense.
BARNES: Well, it does make less sense. We shouldn't be trying to force him to do that. There is no deal to be made. The next step is now for Israel to retaliate against these horrible attacks.
If the U.S. had been attacked in this way, we would insist on the right to retaliate.
KONDRACKE: Well, now in Afghanistan, I mean, we are on the verge of victory. The Taliban is collapsing, Usama bin Laden's buried in a cave someplace. It's not too early to draw some lessons from all this as to — for phase two of this war. One, air power really does work. Two, if you have allies on the ground, you don't have to — you can avoid U.S. casualties almost completely.
Three, the Arab street, or the Muslim street, will not erupt if the United States acts forcefully. And, you know, so the — we now look on to future phases of the war...
BARNES: Right.
KONDRACKE: ... and, you know, we can go after Iraq. We've got some preparatory work to do.
BARNES: You forgot number four, and that was that coalitions are important, but not decisive.
KONDRACKE: Right.
BARNES: They matter. OK.
You made only fleeting reference to Usama bin Laden, but, you know, we've achieved practically everything except nail him. With 1,000 Marines on the ground, commandos already there, I think his time is just about up. I think there's a lesson he ought to know ahead of time from the Gulf War about dealing with Iraq next, and that is, it's not enough just to get rid of his weapons of mass destruction, we have to get rid of Saddam, otherwise he'll get more.
Now, the other hot story is what I call the Beltway backlash. You know, there — Sept. 11 really brought Americans together, but a division has erupted, Mort. I know you've noticed it. And that is over President Bush's and Attorney General John Ashcroft's tactics in the war on terrorism. You'll see it defined in — watch Senator Leahy and President Bush.
SEN. PAT LEAHY (D-VT), CHAIRMAN, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Secret trials and lack of judicial oversight can breed injustice and taint the legitimacy of verdicts. Our procedural protections are not simply inconvenient impediments to convicting and punishing guilty people. They also promote accurate and just verdicts.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Noncitizens, non-U.S. citizens who plan and/or commit mass murder are more than criminal suspects. They are unlawful combatants who seek to destroy our country and our way of life. We will act with fairness, and we will deliver justice, which is far more than the terrorists ever grant to their innocent victims.
BARNES: OK, so it's Leahy versus Bush. More broadly, the division is, Beltway liberals like Senator Pat Leahy, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, the hard left, college faculties, and the editorial board of The New York Times. They're on one side. On the other side, the American people.
I mean, Mort, look at these polls. For instance, the latest Fox News poll shows Americans widely approving administration tactics, 64 percent say President Bush has the right to bypass the normal judicial system and ask for a military tribunal to try suspected terrorists. And 66 percent, Mort, that's 66 percent, you know, two-thirds of Americans, all right, favor the federal government holding terrorist suspects indefinitely while they investigate.
KONDRACKE: Well, you know, the first thing is that it's not only liberals. I mean, Bill Safire of The New York Times and the Cato Institute are also — the libertarians are also worried about this. But the fact is that the Administration has made it clear in the last couple of days that there will be no military tribunals in the United States, in other words, permanent residents who live in the United States don't need to worry about this.
Why they didn't make that clear in the beginning, I do not understand. Maybe we'll ask Senator Kyl about it.
BARNES: Well, as you've written, the more you know about these tribunals, the less threatening they are.
KONDRACKE: Thank you, right.
BARNES: You've made that point well. OK.
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